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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U DLC |OT2| Lucas comes out of Nowhere!

S

Snacks the sober sea lion

Member
I would hope Lucas's PK Fire is safer and spammable, since it has no followups. He has a 2 frame jab I think, it also has a backwards hitbox that pulls you to the front.

Ness's PK Fire is easy. Just pick Sheik and short hop right over it. Ez.
 
C

Cronox

Banned
Man, it's just a bad idea to play this game after taking a melatonin (sleep stuff) or working out. In both cases I just feel sluggish and play terribly... yet somehow I never think to play Smash until I've done one of these things. Ugh.
 
B

Boney

Banned
NamikazeBurst said:
My egg strategy.

"PK Fire is unsafe". I perfect shielded that and dash attacked right away and you still were able to shield. Fucking bullshit.
Click to expand...

Shamrock7r said:
nah you are just too slow. Prob thinking about another egg throw before dashing
Click to expand...
Karst also mentioned it, but the idea of something being unsafe if you can perfect shield it at the first half of the projectile and maybe get a punish if you're like frame perfect and you're using specific members of the case, is ridiculous. That's not being unsafe. Speaking of unsafe, does Ness have any unsafe moves on shield? Up smash, back hit of down smash and poorly spaced back airs right? Anything else?

There's a difference between not 100% safe and being unsafe.

Snacks the sober sea lion said:
Ness's PK Fire is easy. Just pick Sheik and short hop right over it. Ez.
Click to expand...
Reminds me of Zero's tips against Luigi. "Pick Shiek or ZSS" lol
 
S

Shamrock7r

Member
Boney said:
Karst also mentioned it, but the idea of something being unsafe if you can perfect shield it at the first half of the projectile and maybe get a punish if you're like frame perfect and you're using specific members of the case, is ridiculous. That's not being unsafe. Speaking of unsafe, does Ness have any unsafe moves on shield? Up smash, back hit of down smash and poorly spaced back airs right? Anything else?

There's a difference between not 100% safe and being unsafe.


Reminds me of Zero's tips against Luigi. "Pick Shiek or ZSS" lol
Click to expand...

Perfect shielding is pretty integral for high level play, and should be natural for a player during a match, especially for a move as slow as pkfire. If you are having trouble perfect shielding a pk fire and following up, that's honestly the fault/limitations of the player and not the fault of the game. You can ask nami. He went ness one match (after that comment) and I punished every pk Fire except one.

This may seem more difficult on average for you because of the distance/delay lag you play in possibly, but in decent lag conditions and offline it isn't that hard
 
RomanceDawn

RomanceDawn

Member
I use big characters and never feel totally over whelmed with Ness' PK fire. The one that. Lucas shoots on the other hand drives me nuts, it does come out faster doesn't it?

Anyone want to play? RomanceDawn.
 
S

Shamrock7r

Member
RomanceDawn said:
I use big characters and never feel totally over whelmed with Ness' PK fire. The one that. Lucas shoots on the other hand drives me nuts, it does come out faster doesn't it?

Anyone want to play? RomanceDawn.
Click to expand...

I will play in about 10 minutes.

And yea, Lucas' pk fire is the one that can be truly safe with short hop because of the knockback on Lucas
 
Onikaan

Onikaan

Member
It really saddens me how cruel and pathetic people are. All I wanted to do was get on and play a few games for fun.

Some dude whomps me as Peach. Yeah he's good. GG.

I get a reply... "You Suck"

Ok then.
 
S

Shamrock7r

Member
Onikaan said:
It really saddens me how cruel and pathetic people are. All I wanted to do was get on and play a few games for fun.

Some dude whomps me as Peach. Yeah he's good. GG.

I get a reply... "You Suck"

Ok then.
Click to expand...

It's probably a 10 to 13 year old kid being stupid. Don't let it ruin your day
 
B

Boney

Banned
It's not that it's completely unpunishable. It's that the risk/reward ratio is way to skewed. It's punishable but not easily so, while hitting a projectile while earn you 40% or you can get the kill very easily.

And it's less, ban that filth and more like you guys are seriously undermining an excellent move.

Onikaan said:
It really saddens me how cruel and pathetic people are. All I wanted to do was get on and play a few games for fun.

Some dude whomps me as Peach. Yeah he's good. GG.

I get a reply... "You Suck"

Ok then.
Click to expand...
Yeah some people are assholes sadly
 
S

Shamrock7r

Member
Boney said:
It's not that it's completely unpunishable. It's that the risk/reward ratio is way to skewed. It's punishable but not easily so, while hitting a projectile while earn you 40% or you can get the kill very easily.

And it's less, ban that filth and more like you guys are seriously undermining an excellent move.
Click to expand...

No I just think you are projecting your personal difficulties regarding the move with the reality of the situation. The only time an opponent truly gets caught in pkfire is if it connects mid to close range with the opponent. Any further and the opponent can di out of it fairly consistently. The somewhat long startup and callout by Ness makes it quite easy to predict when to shield or avoid. The only time you will get 40% damage is if you grab early on at 0% or it is close enough for a bat follow up, which isn't always guarunteed and that is a high risk attempt.

I could say, just thinking about it, that you have trouble with the move in particular because when you whiff on an attack you usually follow up with tilts, which leave you open to pkfire.

No doubt, it is a great move, but it has very clear drawbacks and isn't as easily used in high level play.
 
B

Boney

Banned
Shamrock7r said:
No I just think you are projecting your personal difficulties regarding the move with the reality of the situation. The only time an opponent truly gets caught in pkfire is if it connects mid to close range with the opponent. Any further and the opponent can di out of it fairly consistently. The somewhat long startup and callout by Ness makes it quite easy to predict when to shield or avoid. The only time you will get 40% damage is if you grab early on at 0% or it is close enough for a bat follow up, which isn't always guarunteed and that is a high risk attempt.

I could say, just thinking about it, that you have trouble with the move in particular because when you whiff on an attack you usually follow up with tilts, which leave you open to pkfire.

No doubt, it is a great move, but it has very clear drawbacks and isn't as easily used in high level play.
Click to expand...
It's very character weight dependant. As samus I have no trouble getting away and getting hit by it will amount to less than 10% (which is still an obscene amount). But as Ike or Charizard, getting this by it means I'll get stuck with it for all the animation, which is more frustrating as zard due to his big frame and slow air speed.

And yeah I have that bad habit due to playing samus that's pretty much my only option to go for, but that's not where I get hit by the most with it. It's mostly when trying to get dash attacks in, that due to the slow start up I gotta do very early and because it's the only "fast" approach as samus.

But let's just drop it. I don't think the drawbacks are too bad and I think it's an excellent move, while you think it's a very highly situational move that gets outshined by Ness' other moves. In reality it's both things so whatever.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Boney said:
It's very character weight dependant. As samus I have no trouble getting away and getting hit by it will amount to less than 10% (which is still an obscene amount). But as Ike or Charizard, getting this by it means I'll get stuck with it for all the animation, which is more frustrating as zard due to his big frame and slow air speed.

And yeah I have that bad habit due to playing samus that's pretty much my only option to go for, but that's not where I get hit by the most with it. It's mostly when trying to get dash attacks in, that due to the slow start up I gotta do very early and because it's the only "fast" approach as samus.

But let's just drop it. I don't think the drawbacks are too bad and I think it's an excellent move, while you think it's a very highly situational move that gets outshined by Ness' other moves. In reality it's both things so whatever.
Click to expand...
Your connection is laggy enough that I can't block Charge Shot on reaction. Have you considered that you think PK Fire is so strong because your connection makes it hard to react to?
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
I think that was actually my bad, and not because of the Internet, but because it happened immediately when my Wii U pad shut off. When I plugged it back in to charge, the latency became okay again.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Oh man, it started getting REAL laggy since the previous match. Might have to call it here.

Edit: I was about done, anyways. Unfortunate lag, but ggs. Nice C. Falcon, it's hard to get control when you gain momentum. I had to initiate comeback mode more than once there, heh.
 
T

thecoolFNF

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Oh man, it started getting REAL laggy since the previous match. Might have to call it here.

Edit: I was about done, anyways. Unfortunate lag, but ggs. Nice C. Falcon, it's hard to get control when you gain momentum. I had to initiate comeback mode more than once there, heh.
Click to expand...
GGs. Lol the falcon wasn't me but my bro. He says falcon is very difficult to play online because movement is impossible to perform properly.

Is WFT projectile safe anyways? Noticed he'd run up shield but get punished anyways.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
thecoolFNF said:
GGs. Lol the falcon wasn't me but my bro. He says falcon is very difficult to play online because movement is impossible to perform properly.

Is WFT projectile safe anyways? Noticed he'd run up shield but get punished anyways.
Click to expand...

Ah, I see. Well, the same goes for WFT and her ultra precise hitboxes. Laggy environments probably help for Sun Salutation spam, though.

I'm not sure what you mean, for the second statement. When he ran up and shielded, he would momentarily let go of it or try to grab, and that's the timing I was looking for to hit him with SS. It doesn't go through shields or anything.
 
T

thecoolFNF

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
Ah, I see. Well, the same goes for WFT and her ultra precise hitboxes. Laggy environments probably help for Sun Salutation spam, though.

I'm not sure what you mean, for the second statement. When he ran up and shielded, he would momentarily let go of it or try to grab, and that's the timing I was looking for to hit him with SS. It doesn't go through shields or anything.
Click to expand...

Ohhh I see. Hopefully next time I'll play myself vs you without lag lol

Edit: forgot to ask does her fair spike? You spiked my bro with it I think in one of the games and it was hilarious (for me at least)
 
B

Boney

Banned
Anyone down to play in 10 minutes?

Karsticles said:
Your connection is laggy enough that I can't block Charge Shot on reaction. Have you considered that you think PK Fire is so strong because your connection makes it hard to react to?
Click to expand...
Could be, my experience with the game is 99% online

thecoolFNF said:
Ohhh I see. Hopefully next time I'll play myself vs you without lag lol

Edit: forgot to ask does her fair spike? You spiked my bro with it I think in one of the games and it was hilarious (for me at least)
Click to expand...
Yeah the foot hit box spikes. WFT has a lot of tricky hitboxes.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Shamrock7r said:
Like I told Karst, who resisted until he believed me, don't wait for me to show bat or heal, just throw that shit at me, and watch the magic. If I get hit it is my fault
Click to expand...

FluxWaveZ said:
Well, if you say so... I'll start doing it.
Click to expand...
What really changed wasn't throwing the Shadow Balls in teams, but learning how to play evasively with Mewtwo.

Also, it really helps when you give me a tell, Shamrock. You started doing a little empty hop before throwing Psi Magnet out, and I watched carefully for it.

Flux, Protip: sometimes Shamrock likes to bat it back instead of heal. Stay on your toes. :p
 
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