• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Sweet Baby Inc dev bluntly says they want to burn down the gaming industry

Bombolone

Gold Member
It’s going to ‘burn down’. Just not in their favour.

I think an uncomfortable truth that is emerging for them and anyone who aligns with their nonsense is… they lost.
The destination is known. Companies will get back to making games the heterosexual males want and they can’t do anything about it.
They have to meet us where we are.
Unless you think these companies that generate billions of dollars want to suddenly shrink that pie and drive around in Toyota Camrys.
In a few years time these names and voices will be forgotten.
 
Also clearly racist against white people, unless said white person is part of the LGBTQ+ community.

I'm honestly shocked that game publishers would get involved with such a hateful company.
Makes you wonder about the people running the publishers doesn’t it? They are all sick and stick together it seems. The industry needs to be purged and fast.
 

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
i think you missed the joke here buddy.

what this person is saying is that the industry is permeated with "whiteness", "burning down the game industry" as in: destroying whitness.

this shit is insane. it's something you expect to hear someone like Hitler say.
That isn't what he is saying, though. In my comment I called out he is using opaque academic language in a way I agree is problematic. When he says "whiteness" he means "the concept of whiteness as an exclusionary category to enshrine privilege for one group" not as an actual race of people.

People who don't spend all day talking about critical race theory are not going to understand you if you talk this way and it definitely speaks to what a bubble he lives in. All of that is fair.

But it doesn't mean he thinks white people are bad. The whole talk is literally about praising Mel Brooks for doing a good job of writing a black character. It's impossible to construe this in context as saying white people are bad or shouldn't write about race, he literally uses Mel Brooks as his reference point for good throughout the entire talk.
 
Last edited:
I appreciate you actually posting the whole thing. I think it's pretty clear from the full talk that it's being badly misrepresented by the OP and others, but I still have my own criticisms of it.

My notes for the zero of you who care:

  1. He is definitely neck deep academic theory talk that can be really cringe and counterproductive. Like the way he casually uses "whiteness" to refer to the cultural concept of what it means to be "white," as it relates to excluding others. I understand the intent but it just sounds like "fuck white people" to most white people so maybe don't say it like that, especially in the context of a talk about writing for diverse audiences.
  2. His defense of Blazing Saddles is smart and on-point, and that's obviously a movie that a lot of people consider "too offensive" these days.
  3. But the critique of Tarantino spirals into what sounds like vendetta. There are some points that are fair (inserting of "white perspective characters" or white saviors in black stories is absolutely a valid criticism), and I think even Tarantino would probably agree that he fetishizes black "coolness" in his stories, but then he just says he needs to be "critiqued out of existence" which is almost a parody of what anti-woke crusaders think criticism is. And also exactly the sort of thing people try to say about SBI.
  4. The part about "burning the games industry to the ground" seems to be a joke, because when he actually speaks about this slide he just says that financial motivations get in the way of telling good stories, something I think would offend no one.
  5. None of his actual advice to writers here seems especially bad or controversial.


I could shred every point to bits but I will get straight to the core question, the one that truly matters: why the fuck is this crazy discourse relevant to video games?

This guy is not preaching at a sociology university, he works for a videogames consultancy firm. All these concepts don't belong in the gaming industry. The fact that you read stuff like "whiteness" and don't roll your eyes tells me how deep you are in the rabbit hole.

Talentless freaks like this should clean their mouths when discussing a true talent like Tarantino. For fucks sake.
 

Kacho

Gold Member
A) Throwing the word woke or other buzzwords at anything they don’t like and thus causing mass confusion
Cut the shit, MC. No one is confused about the word 'woke'. When someone says "Man, they turned my favorite RPG into woke trash" on a random Dragon Age Veilguard trailer, people know exactly what they mean.

Lastly, if you guys really want the more casual gaming audience to understand your plight, you need to be more organized and your members need to be more rational and less edgy/jaded.
We're not an organized campaign lol. I do a agree that some people are cringe but I have no control over that. Like, just because I happen to agree with Grummz on a particular issue, doesn't mean I consume his content, engage with it, or respect him in any way.

And for crying out loud, stop doubling down on older media. This culture war stuff is newer, so the minute someone else brings up something from the 90s or early 2000s that you would deem as ‘woke’ today, just concede the point to them and find another, reasonable way to explain your position. The minute you lie and say ‘Well no I didn’t like the movie Alien it’s a bad movie’ or something just as ridiculous you’re going to receive an instant side eye/eyebrow raise.
I don't do this and agree that it's a dumb argument. "Terminator had a female lead and I loved it!" I roll my eyes every time. We're in agreement here.
 

laynelane

Member
Considering there's a bunch of perfectly good games, regardless of their sales being large or small, and even a number of rather huge titles listed as "not recommended" on that page....yeah, that's probably not going to work out the way you think.

For the record, in isolation I can agree with a number of specific complaints (not all of them), but others just come across like "look at these DEI people, they're eating crackers".

What I think is that an issue has been identified and that a tool is in place for people to use if they wish to. One which can help them make informed choices on what they purchase. For example, many people bought Spider-Man 2 and only found out afterward that there were DEI inclusions. That won't matter to many people but, for those that it does, DEI detected is there to help. I have no idea what "yeah, that's probably not going to work out the way you think" means - but if you believe more information is a negative then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
Cut the shit, MC. No one is confused about the word 'woke'. When someone says "Man, they turned my favorite RPG into woke trash" on a random Dragon Age Veilguard trailer, people know exactly what they mean.
There’s no shit to cut. When someone says that line for a 3 minute trailer of another game that barely shows anything it confuses others and makes you guys look bad. Also, again, I’m talking about the bad actors here. When you guys cover for them it seriously makes you look bad. If you want more people to join your cause, you have to find a way through this.

The ones who actually know what they’re doing and what they’re talking about will make better hard stances with good evidence to back.
We're not an organized campaign lol. I do a agree that some people are cringe but I have no control over that. Like, just because I happen to agree with Grummz on a particular issue, doesn't mean I consume his content, engage with it, or respect him in any way.
You could be. You could be organized, seen more legitimate, etc. This doesn’t have to be the mess that it currently is.
 
But it doesn't mean he thinks white people are bad. The whole talk is literally about praising Mel Brooks for doing a good job of writing a black character. It's impossible to construe this in context as saying white people are bad or shouldn't write about race, he literally uses Mel Brooks as his reference point for good throughout the entire talk.
Until the very end, where he accuses Brooks of not doing enough for indigenous representation, calling that aspect an abject failure and emphasizing how only with their help the western genre can be transformed. So putting all those pieces together, it sounds like this person thinks Blazing Saddles is only a small step in the right direction.

Or maybe his video consists entirely of incomprehensible ranting of him trying to justify why he likes one movie and not the other, through the racist lens of critical race theory.
 
You look at this they/them's face and you just know that in decades prior, someone would have punched the stupid out of him, not given him a job.

I really, really hope we're returning to that. It feels like it, but it's been years of this.

Believe it or not, that's a woman.

That dev in the video is so ugly, she is the reason Sonic the hedgehog runs.

We went from Naomi Campbell & Tyra Banks to...well whatever that is in the OP.

Somehow we got off the correct timeline and got on a very bad one.

TBF we do have Sarah Bond but she's stuck at trying to help Xbox keep a heartbeat so :/
 
Last edited:

Kacho

Gold Member
You could be. You could be organized, seen more legitimate, etc. This doesn’t have to be the mess that it currently is.
We are not ResetEra. We aren’t trying to enforce boycotts on games. People are free to consume and like what they want. We’re just speaking our minds and voting with our wallets. If that’s all it takes to tank these games then these companies are doing something very wrong.
 
You could be. You could be organized, seen more legitimate, etc. This doesn’t have to be the mess that it currently is.


Impossible, because many people live off these outrages. An extreme movement creates its inevitable opposite. We are nobodies just enjoying our hobby and making fun of freaks online. Youtubers and twitter rage-baiters are the ones to "organize".
 

Neff

Member
I think an uncomfortable truth that is emerging for them and anyone who aligns with their nonsense is… they lost.

Already I'm seeing an unusual amount of bargaining and softening of aggression from them to protect their precious moral blackmail gravy train. Reality simply has a 'right wing' bias and they're slowly starting to realise that the majority of people now see the far-left is primarily self-serving rather than selfless, no matter what they tell themselves.
 

kiphalfton

Member
They know they can say whatever they want to say, and get away with it scott free, due to being a protected class.

Truly sickening. Obviously they couldn't care less about having any sort of integrity.
 
We are not ResetEra. We aren’t trying to enforce boycotts on games. People are free to consume and like what they want. We’re just speaking our minds and voting with our wallets. If that’s all it takes to tank these games then these companies are doing something very wrong.
Your problem is thinking that the mass market consumer's common sense is a "movement" that needs fostering.

It doesn't.

People like the ones you were responding to, need only continue these conversations. That's it. Just highlight the lunacy of these ideologue activists intent on ruining our hobby and the mainstream gamer will vote with their wallet.

We don't need to give a fuck about the more extreme elements of the anti-woke right. We, i.e. the mainstream majority gamer, neither engage with those elements as we do the extreme elements on the left.

We're just here to play games and have fun, and when we see something shit, we'll call it out, laugh and mock it, and then vote with our wallets so that shit like that doesn't get a chance at a sequel.

We're not activists and we don't need to be. Activists are people who try to influence (or in the case of these ideologue culture warriors, gaslight the majority) the majority by highlighting an issue the activists care about. We ARE the majority and we refuse to be gaslit.
And this is why the movement will remain messy and unfocused. One of the tells will be the day when SBI is either ostracized or simply collapses. If that day ever comes, keep a close eye on what people do next and see if some of the bad actors take things too far.

Impossible, because many people live off these outrages. An extreme movement creates its inevitable opposite. We are nobodies just enjoying our hobby and making fun of freaks online. Youtubers and twitter rage-baiters are the ones to "organize".

I mean legitimate in terms of people taking you more seriously. There is still a large majority that don’t because of the multiple factors I’ve listed above. Don’t let a stars-aligning moment like Concord blind you to this.
 
Last edited:

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
That isn't what he is saying, though. In my comment I called out he is using opaque academic language in a way I agree is problematic. When he says "whiteness" he means "the concept of whiteness as an exclusionary category to enshrine privilege for one group" not as an actual race of people.
and whitness comes from where?.... white people

it's like saying I don't hate these people , I just hate their culture.

People who don't spend all day talking about critical race theory are not going to understand you if you talk this way and it definitely speaks to what a bubble he lives in. All of that is fair.
excaclty, as a Mexican when you say: "critical race theory" I'm like "what the fuck is that" (I don't care BTW). but you are right with the fact that these people live in a bubble in real life and online
But it doesn't mean he thinks white people are bad.
oh boy.
The whole talk is literally about praising Mel Brooks for doing a good job of writing a black character.
... why tho?... i think is the use of consultants, right?
It's impossible to construe this in context as saying white people are bad or shouldn't write about race,
Unless they get rid of their "whiteness"
he literally uses Mel Brooks as his reference point for good throughout the entire talk.
the use of consultants.

when you take this talk and the Kim Belair one and add actual quotes from people related to this.... movement/enterprise. You can clearly see their strategy and intentions.

fortunately, all of that doesn't matter. The market will decide, and that is where those kinds of people are set for failure
 

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
I could shred every point to bits but I will get straight to the core question, the one that truly matters: why the fuck is this crazy discourse relevant to video games?
I mean it's a talk about writing better stories, which is obviously relevant to games, whether or not you agree with what his advice.

It's not a talk about how to defeat white supremacy or something, he's just talking about common mistakes writers make when writing about a race other than their own, like inserting white perspective characters.

And like, "If you want to tell black stories, commit to that perspective" isn't crazy controversial advice. Movies like Green Book and The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks got slammed rightly for this.

This guy is not preaching at a sociology university, he works for a videogames consultancy firm. All these concepts don't belong in the gaming industry. The fact that you read stuff like "whiteness" and don't roll your eyes tells me how deep you are in the rabbit hole.
I mean I did roll my eyes and call that out, so we agree there. But I do know what he means and I'm not going to deliberately misconstrue it as something else either.

Talentless freaks like this should clean their mouths when discussing a true talent like Tarantino. For fucks sake.
No one is above criticism, the point here isn't that he shouldn't be allowed to criticize Tarantino (I love QT fwiw), it's whether or not his criticisms are valid and useful.

And the answer is a mixed bag. He definitely identifies some of the reasons Django could be better, but his hate for QT gets in the way. He could also have found much better examples to work with than a movie like Django which was generally liked.
 

yogaflame

Member
SBI is so bitter and angry, maybe because majority of things they touch always flops. They are like a plague, a virus or a poison to the gaming and entertainment industry. I hope they look in the mirror and listen to themselves.
 
And this is why the movement will remain messy and unfocused. One of the tells will be the day when SBI is either ostracized or simply collapses. If that day ever comes, keep a close eye on what people do next and see if some of the bad actors take things too far.

I mean legitimate in terms of people taking you more seriously. There is still a large majority that don’t because of the multiple factors I’ve listed above. Don’t let a stars-aligning moment like Concord blind you to this.
The more you keep telling us to calm down and stop doing things, the more I am going to so it. Youve shown your bad intentions under the veneer of objective, rational person. But it's all lies
 

Bombolone

Gold Member
Already I'm seeing an unusual amount of bargaining and softening of aggression from them to protect their precious moral blackmail gravy train. Reality simply has a 'right wing' bias and they're slowly starting to realise that the majority of people now see the far-left is primarily self-serving rather than selfless, no matter what they tell themselves.
Exactly, if you have been following the discourse over the past decade. You can see at every junction, when they lose, their tune changes. Softens up a bit. The bargaining and rationalizing. Like spoiled angry children. Can’t take an L.

Human beings will clump around the ideas/habits/traditions that make sense for the species to survive and proliferate.
When you are all the way over there… well. Let’s just say useful idiots and leave it at that.

It’s all self inflicted wounds too. Just sit back, enjoy the flops, online unhinged rants, free entertainment.
 

Embearded

Member
Didn't watch the video but i'd bet its one of these stupid hyperboles these people love so much.

They couldn't stop Hogwarts Legacy from becoming one of the best selling games in the entire history, and they fought that game with such passion.
 

proandrad

Member
I have no issue with Sweat Baby Inc, they are very clear about their goals and who think are. But this company can’t even do PR without causing a shitstorm. Even if a company wants to pretend they care about woke issues, why would you hire these retards?
 
Last edited:
The more you keep telling us to calm down and stop doing things, the more I am going to so it. Youve shown your bad intentions under the veneer of objective, rational person. But it's all lies
This should have happened a long time ago instead of letting it get so out of hand and lead to all of this pushback, and trying to police said pushback instead
I didn’t say anything about calming down or stopping, I’m giving legitimate advice. Take it or leave it but you’re going to have to eventually deal with the problems I’ve mentioned, in the future.

I don’t need to subvert or deceive. I had an epiphany months ago. If you guys win, I win. If you guys lose, I win. I might as well give some helpful advice to move things forward so that you can at least try to win better.
 
Last edited:

Nickolaidas

Member
I have no issue with Sweat Baby Inc
I do. Companies and people like SBI took advantage of retards working at marketing departments of bigger companies and publishers and made them think the extremely loud and vocal minority was actually the majority and terrified them into compliance and ruined every single fucking IP I loved in the west and turned them into bland, tedious, boring pieces of crap. All in the name of 'inclusivity', as if before those mentally challenged fuckwits there weren't female or non-white protagonists ever.

All they did was make characters as ugly as they are, both on the inside and the outside.

They can get fucked.
 
Last edited:

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
and whitness comes from where?.... white people
No. And again my point here is not to defend his use of the term, which I called out as confusing and problematic. But if you are genuinely curious as to the answer I am just here to try to help explain.

The idea here is that "whiteness" doesn't actually refer to any particular race or culture at all, that as a concept it exists to enshrine a power structure and that it gets renegotiated all the time for that purpose.

Like for example there are many groups who are racially Caucasian who are generally excluded from "whiteness," like Spanish speakers, Persians and Arabs, etc. Or, historically speaking, groups like Italians and the Irish were excluded, and people with small fractions of African ancestry who appeared white.
excaclty, as a Mexican when you say: "critical race theory" I'm like "what the fuck is that" (I don't care BTW). but you are right with the fact that these people live in a bubble in real life and online
If you aren't American then none of this should make any sense to you, this is strictly rooted in American culture and history. No other country really thinks or talks about these things this way.
... why tho?... i think is the use of consultants, right?
No, I think the point he is making (sometimes more clearly than other times) is that Mel Brooks wanted to tell a black story so he kept the focus on the black character, and that character was consistently empowered and acted in ways that felt earned.

He contrasts this to Django, who relies on a white character to save him or to advance the plot and sometimes feels like a sidekick in his own movie. Also Django's arc is simplistic and reductive, just trauma and revenge, he doesn't get a lot of space to have a more interesting motivation or commentary.

But he does let his hate from QT let him get sidetracked into commentary about how QT fetishizes black "coolness" or that he is blinded by white supremacy and this is where he is probably being the least helpful, like you aren't here to psychologize authors, you're here to talk about writing good stories.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why do I feel an irresistible impulse to slap her?

Ultimate Warrior Wrestling GIF by WWE

Who is that lady talking for Sweet Baby? Like what's her position at the company?
 

NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt

Biggest Trails Stan
It’s going to ‘burn down’. Just not in their favour.

I think an uncomfortable truth that is emerging for them and anyone who aligns with their nonsense is… they lost.
The destination is known. Companies will get back to making games the heterosexual males want and they can’t do anything about it.
They have to meet us where we are.
Unless you think these companies that generate billions of dollars want to suddenly shrink that pie and drive around in Toyota Camrys.
In a few years time these names and voices will be forgotten.

I hope not since people need a reminder of what happens when the crazies take over. Should be taught in history classes

Also the same thing will just repeat if people forget
 
Last edited:

Nickolaidas

Member
But it doesn't mean he thinks white people are bad.
Yeah, like that female black head dev where they said that they PURPOSEFULLY didn't want to hire ANY white people because she wanted to create a 'SAFE' environment for her employees.

Crickets. Nothing. No one from the gaming press said anything.

IMAGINE a white dev saying that. That they PURPOSEFULLY didn't hire black people in order to create a safe environment for their employees. Every single gaming website under the sun would've crucified them.

ALL of these people think like this. They're racist scum, pretending to be 'inclusive'.

You CANNOT be inclusive while at the same time excluding a particular demographic you don't like. It doesn't WORK that way.

We have receipts for every single one of them. Devs making tweets like 'I had a nightmare I was a straight white male'. Or 'hashtag, KillAllMen'.

Those exist. There are receipts. They are NOT sane individuals who want to have a conversation. They are activists, out for blood.

Stop pretending that they are not.
 

Kacho

Gold Member
Who is that lady talking for Sweet Baby? Like what's her position at the company?
I don't have the answer for you but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this Sweet Baby drama. How do you feel about it? (not bait)
 
Last edited:

laynelane

Member
Here's the whole thing:



I just wonder what creative excuses you will come up with now.


I actually laughed out loud at the "creating joy through storytelling" line (said as a descriptor for what they do). It was just a short while before the "burning the games industry to the ground" slide came on. :messenger_grinning_smiling:

Edit: Had to stop when the part about empathy being required to tell certain stories came along at exactly the same time as anti-white messaging.



I made it all the way to 3:05 of the video.
 
Last edited:

proandrad

Member
I do. Companies and people like SBI took advantage of retards working at marketing departments of bigger companies and publishers and made them think the extremely loud and vocal minority was actually the majority and terrified them into compliance and ruined every single fucking IP I loved in the west and turned them into bland, tedious, boring pieces of crap. All in the name of 'inclusivity', as if before those mentally challenged fuckwits there weren't female or non-white protagonists ever.

All they did was make characters as ugly as they are, both on the inside and the outside.

They can get fucked.
Trap cards like these are needed in the free market, companies slowly start to learn and do better, the ones that don’t die and the market is better for it. Once this is over companies will move on to some other retarded choices and the world moves on. There is no reason to let this shit live rent free in your head, just vote with your wallet and the market will adapt.
 
Last edited:

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I don't have the answer for you but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this Sweet Baby drama. How do you feel about it? (not bait)

I disagreed with literally every one spoken and typed by the Sweet Baby employee. It makes less sense when you see the comparison to Django the movie. She TOTALLY misses the mark and doesn't understand why Quentin did the things he did. The power dynamic is what makes that movie so good to me. You'd have to turn your brain off to NOT understand that.
 

vpance

Member
In a few years time these names and voices will be forgotten.

The problem is there's like a 1000 heads on the snake of this thing. The longer it stays at this level it becomes more normalized. It might take a while.

As long as gamers keep getting baited on every new release and lowering their bar of standard for what's good they'll keep pushing forward with this stuff. We don't vote with our dollars enough yet.
 
Last edited:

Luc2010

Member
It’s going to ‘burn down’. Just not in their favour.

I think an uncomfortable truth that is emerging for them and anyone who aligns with their nonsense is… they lost.
The destination is known. Companies will get back to making games the heterosexual males want and they can’t do anything about it.
They have to meet us where we are.
Unless you think these companies that generate billions of dollars want to suddenly shrink that pie and drive around in Toyota Camrys.
In a few years time these names and voices will be forgotten.
Yep, money talks and bullshit walks! This will take a bit for the companies to figure out what is going on.
 
Last edited:
Inclusive to all but white men is not inclusive. Secondly, using your business as a plot for revenge equates to contracts being cancelled. Lastly, I hear unemployment has been rather inclusive for some time now. Not too many white men there either, which sounds like his dream.
 

Bombolone

Gold Member
The problem is there's like a 1000 heads on the snake of this thing. The longer it stays at this level it becomes more normalized. It might take a while.

As long as gamers keep getting baited on every new release and lowering their bar of standard for what's good they'll keep pushing forward with this stuff. We don't vote with our dollars enough yet.
I agree. I’m not saying don’t do anything. Continue to have the conversations, point it out, push for better and speak with your wallet.
I’m comforted in the meantime, knowing that they lost. It’s just the journey at this point.
 
It's time to just call them out for what they are, brainwashers. In their mind it is their duty to condition the masses into liking or not liking something. They love throwing around the word nazi while they brainwash with all their made up bullshit.
 
Last edited:
It´s a war. Us vs them. This is way beyond games, mentally ill people is trying to take control and impose on the rest how to live and how to think.

Anyone who defends this DEI BS is my enemy. Period.

These people are just so miserable aren’t they I miss the days when they had no voice and we all lived in peace to be honest.
They are the living proof why not everyone must have a voice!!!
 

Boglin

Member
No. And again my point here is not to defend his use of the term, which I called out as confusing and problematic. But if you are genuinely curious as to the answer I am just here to try to help explain.

The idea here is that "whiteness" doesn't actually refer to any particular race or culture at all, that as a concept it exists to enshrine a power structure and that it gets renegotiated all the time for that purpose.

Like for example there are many groups who are racially Caucasian who are generally excluded from "whiteness," like Spanish speakers, Persians and Arabs, etc. Or, historically speaking, groups like Italians and the Irish were excluded, and people with small fractions of African ancestry who appeared white.

The terminology chosen by these "academics" is inherently flawed because it takes a dynamic that's represented globally where ever there is a mixing of races and cultures but it frames it from a very narrow and specific American perspective. To absolutely anyone not educated in that very specific framing of the terminology, the words carry the implication of attacking a particular race, and the implication is so obvious that I really doubt it was just an unfortunate accident.

I've said this before so I'll just quote myself which captures the gist.

"The people who adopted the widespread usage of "white privilege" could have avoided so much controversy and the racially charged implications that the term conveys by instead using the term "majority privilege" since it covers 95% of the meaning.
But I know being strictly academic and diplomatic wasn't a high priority because the same people also coined "whiteness" and they practically defined it so that any and all societal ineptitudes that negatively affect minorities fall under its umbrella. The terminology was deliberately chosen by racists to demonize a specific race".
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom