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[TheContact]

I don't like Bush but America didn't do that to Iraq. China actually benefitted a lot from that because they brought a ton of oil contractors in there and made bank.

 

[Funky Papa]

The clusterfuck that moron unleashed onto the world is going to haunt us for generations to come. It's crazy how much of today's issues with extremism can be traced not to 9/11 per se, but the senseless invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Going in without a plan and creating a power vacuum in the region was a sure way to destabilize the entire world.

 

[SniperHunter]

A terrifying thought -- the fact that this group had a plan to escape, rather than sacrifice themselves. Could that mean that they're planning more attacks like this?

As more time passes, the chances of another big attack diminishes. Paris must be on lockdown by now. I am guessing there will be a gun battle with the police when they are found.

 

[marrec]

Murder of 12 people, implicating:
- attack on one of the principles of modern, democratic society (free speech).
- the role of islam in these killings
- the role of ISIS in these killings

Add to that:

- the role of western cultural biases in the promulgation of ideas that further isolate already radical and isolated peoples.

 

[Mac_Lane]

Bernard Maris was also killed in the attack...

I feel gutted, what a terrible day this turned out to be. Fuck those monsters.

 

[collige]

Seems like the outlet is basically the french version of Fox News but with their agendas often presented as satire. This is textbook fear mongering.

But this is exactly the thing thats necessary to determine how far freedom of speech goes.
You should be able to say anything, no matter how stupid it is.
I hope moderates are able to stand behind these values without giving in to these anti muslim agendas themselfs.

I think you're misunderstanding. The fearmongering book was published by someone else and the author was satirized by Charlie Hebdo. That's my understanding, at least.

 

[Flintty]

I never understood that reference. Animals are by and large peaceful creatures.

Animals as opposed to civilised human beings. Perhaps it is a bit cruel to the animals though.

They're just scum.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

No, nothing like Fox News, Charlie Hebdo is anti-religion, not just anti-Islam. Or anti-religious extremism I should say.

I was talking about the methods they're using, not the agenda they're pushing.
But anyway, it wasn't my intention to discuss the content they published.
It doesn't matter.

I just hope that stuff like this won't drive more people to anti islamic and overall xenophobic standpoints, but unfortunately I think this is exactly what will happen and I'm also pretty sure that this is exactly what the terroists want: Split society.

I think you're misunderstanding. The fearmongering book was published by someone else and the author was satirized by Charlie Hebdo. That's my understanding, at least.

Oh, I don't speak french. If thats the case my point was wrong.

 

[Dicer]

Terrible all the way around, religious extremists of any sort that can't handle a debate or a an alternate viewpoint so they have to retaliate like this.

It sucks for the peaceful Muslims in the world, as there are plenty of them, but the extreme ones get all the spotlight and sully what is otherwise a devout and solemn religion. It doesn't help that the world media tends to poke the bear so to speak...

I'm not one to believe in any sort of God myself, but my thought go out to anyone affected by tragedy like that, it's uncalled for.

 

[Xando]

How in 2015 can someone possibly be killed over a freaking cartoon?

Has all logic and perspective just flown out of the window?

The people who did this don't live in 2015.

The irrational, open hostility towards a minority group and the political knee-jerk response in the form of poorly thought-out laws and extremist parties gaining ground is indeed scary. It will directly affect my life (and yours) far more than these killings will.

Look at you, already comfortable enough to blame all muslims for not "integrating" enough.

Where have i blamed all muslims? I said there are enough that have integrated themselves into society.
I live in Hamburg, germany we have the largest muslim population in germany, most of my friends are muslims and perfectly integrated. Then you have people (in the same city) living in their own paralell societys that can't speak german, don't want any contact to non muslim citizens and are openly praising ISIS, we have religious mosques that openly recruit their people to join ISIS in syria.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Fuck muslim extremists and those that sympathize with extremists .

 

[Gustav]

Add to that:

- the role of western cultural biases in the promulgation of ideas that further isolate already radical and isolated peoples.

Are you saying the "western culture's" skirt was too short?

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Oh look, it's fucking Islamic extremists again.
Fuck religion.

 

[cyberheater]

I'm saying that the west has been entirely too slow to integrate fully and with good faith people of islamic culture which has given put philosophical cudgel in the hands of violent extremists.

The solution isn't to tighten our frightened grip on islam, but to further allow it to culturally be accepted into western traditions and values. It's a long process and it will continue to be violent and bloody, just as the christian enlightenment was, but it's the only humane solution.

I'm sorry I can't agree with you there. Western culture is by and large based on the Christian faith and I believe it should stay that way.

 

[The_lascar]

Charb : "I have no kids, no wife, no car, no credits. I may sound pretentious, but I I'd rather die standing than live on my knees."

Quote for new page.
(Charb is one of the victims who died today)

 

[ComputerMKII]

Cabu's last drawing, published today:

Translation:

Poll: 71% of French people declare themselves pessimistic

Writers Michel Houellebecq and Eric Zemmour - who have frequently been accused of islamophobia- signing their own, best-selling books about the decline of France, saying: "Pessimistic... pessimistic... do we look like we're pessimistic?"

 

[Interceptor]

Within some communities, sure. No doubt about that.

I still believe the best course of counter-reaction is to not generalize and condemn all muslims. The only way to solve this cultural problem long-term is to successfully integrate the moderate parts of Islam into Western societies.

I also believe that many moderate Muslims are not speaking up against these barbaric acts because they are scared shitless of Islamic terrorists as well.

We need to stop putting muslims and islam in the same sentence. When I criticise scientology I criticise the ideology, not the poor guy wasting his live and money believing in it. When I demonstrate against right wing parties it is to counter the ideology, to prevent young people falling for racism. I don't plan to establish gulags for them. Islam is the problem. Not muslims.

 

[Thomasorus]

Seems like the outlet is basically the french version of Fox News but with their agendas often presented as satire. This is textbook fear mongering.

Charlie was radical left-wing. Do you imply Fox News are SOCIALISTS?! #Fear

The BBC's Hugh Schofield in Paris says Charlie Hebdo is part of a venerable tradition in French journalism going back to the scandal sheets that denounced Marie-Antoinette in the run-up to the French Revolution.

The tradition combines left-wing radicalism with a provocative scurrility that often borders on the obscene, he says.

Back in the 18th Century, the target was the royal family, and the rumour-mongers wrought havoc with tales - often illustrated - of sexual antics and corruption at the court at Versailles.

Nowadays there are new dragons to slay: politicians, the police, bankers and religion. Satire, rather than outright fabrication, is the weapon of choice.

But that same spirit of insolence that once took on the ancien regime - part ribaldry, part political self-promotion - is still very much on the scene.

Charlie Hebdo is a prime exponent. Its decision to mock the Prophet Muhammad is entirely consistent with its historic raison d'etre, our correspondent says.

People should read this instead or talking about muslim nonsense of anything non-related to the Charlie attack.

 

[Pacbois]

Protests are planned in all of France's major cities. The biggest one is planned Place de la Republique in Paris, near Charlie Hebdo's office, 14k+ people are attending the Facebook event.

 

[cyberheater]

They're just scum.

And I agree with you there.

 

[Sioen]

Hopefully EU opens its eyes and start to do something about muslim extremists. The time to avoid discussions is done.

 

[Flintty]

The clusterfuck that moron unleashed onto the world is going to haunt us for generations to come. It's crazy how much of today's issues with extremism can be traced not to 9/11 per se, but the senseless invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Going in without a plan and creating a power vacuum in the region was a sure way to destabilize the region.

I don't want to open up another can of worms but AQ were active before 9/11 and progressively becoming more prominent. Terrorism isn't a new 'thing' and the Middle East has been a cluster for decades.

 

[nilbog21]

so fucked up. i'm tired of this shit

this kind of shit is going to put the FN in power..

 

[Mac_Lane]

Seems like the outlet is basically the french version of Fox News but with their agendas often presented as satire. This is textbook fear mongering.

But this is exactly the thing thats necessary to determine how far freedom of speech goes.
You should be able to say anything, no matter how stupid it is.
I hope moderates are able to stand behind these values without giving in to these anti muslim agendas themselfs.

What a load of crap... Charlie Hebdo was a leftist newspaper, they did not preach hatred of Islam at all.

The only thing they loathed was integrism.

 

[Gabotron ES]

Just watched the vid where they kill the wounded cop. Filthy motherfuckers, prison is not a place for these animals.

 

[Alej]

Je suis Charlie. Are we all Charlie?

 

[Eligor]

Yes it is. Its exactly the stuff Fox News does, too.
Giving a plattform to certain people, certain books and certain opinions and not beeing critical about it. These stupid what if? questions are textbook fear mongering.
This is how you get people to go for each others throat. This is how you get people from small villages with no immigrants to go on the streets to protest against immigrants.

They're running a story on one of the bestt-selling french novelist, like pretty much every other outlet this week, what are you even on about ?

 

[Betty]

Add to that:

- the role of western cultural biases in the promulgation of ideas that further isolate already radical and isolated peoples.

I know you'd really like to make people believe the west should take some blame for this attack but it's not going to happen.

The Islamic extremists are the only ones to blame for this attack.

 

[maquiladora]

As more time passes, the chances of another big attack diminishes. Paris must be on lockdown by now. I am guessing there will be a gun battle with the police when they are found.

Their weapons and clothing have probably been ditched a while ago now. There will be no way to identify these attackers imminently if that's the case unless they make a mistake. If there was going to be a gun battle I think it would have happened by now.

The danger will be the same attackers carrying out another attack at some point in the future.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Here are the uncensored drawings:

 

[Trago]

Man, all of this over a fucking cartoon. Those offended by the cartoon should understand that criticism of your beliefs is not a bad thing. And The cartoonists drawing Mohammed aren't even idolizing him. This is stupidity.

 

[keuja]

Seems like the outlet is basically the french version of Fox News but with their agendas often presented as satire. This is textbook fear mongering.

But this is exactly the thing thats necessary to determine how far freedom of speech goes.
You should be able to say anything, no matter how stupid it is.
I hope moderates are able to stand behind these values without giving in to these anti muslim agendas themselfs.

Charlie Hebdo is like the opposite of Fox News.
They are a far left paper.

 

[Funky Papa]

I'm sorry I can't agree with you there. Western culture is by and large based on the Christian faith and I believe it should stay that way.

As somebody hailing from a country which was ruled in sync with the Church, I say fuck that noise.

 

[nilbog21]

so there was 3 attackers?

 

[Gorger]

Muslims believe that the Quran is literally the word of god so it's hard to get any progress going. There will never be progress in Islam because the religion will always be shackled by the Quran.

At least Christianity was able to progress it's religion forward.

You are forgetting that the Islamic world actually did have a ~300 year golden age period where science and progression flourished. At this time they were way ahead of the Christian world on most fronts. It was primarily the Mongol Invasion and the Crusades that crushed most of their intellectual elite and halted Muslim enlightenment which gradually withered and gave root to extreme and fundamentalist forces.

Especially in this day and age with the wars in the middle east, the Arab spring and the war on terror.. Islamic fundamentalism might seem like an all time high.. but let's be very clear that this is s till a microscopic small branch of crazy extremist Muslims and it's super dangerous to judge everyone based on the actions of a few. Every day we are hearing Muslims rallying, protesting and speaking up against radical Islam. Those are the voices of many, and they need to know that they're being heard and supported.

 

[stonesak]

This is one case of government assisted euthanasia for criminals I can support.

 

[SniperHunter]

Their weapons and clothing have probably been ditched a while ago now. There will be no way to identify these attackers imminently if that's the case unless they make a mistake. If there was going to be a gun battle I think it would have happened by now.

The danger will be the same attackers carrying out another attack at some point in the future.

I doubt they ditched their AK 47s

 

[Betty]

so there was 3 attackers?

That's how many they say they're hunting so far.

 

[petran79]

I had no idea that even occured. Ironically at the time of the incident I was reading some of Ronald Searle's illustrations. Also an English satyrical cartoonist who settled in France and was also imprisoned by the Japanese in WWII under horrendous conditions. Despite that he risked his life to make some of the most memorable drawings of the prison camps along with lighter sketches of course. Died recently due to old age. Totally opposite fates to this!

Condolences to the victims. A shame to lose their lifes over this!

Sarkozy will win, but by the time it's over, he'll look like a FN member anyway.

I thought scandals would prevent him from being a candidate. New Berlusconi I guess.....

 

[Gustav]

so there was 3 attackers?

German newspapers are currently talking about 3 attackers, yes.

 

[Amir0x]

Such a horror. I hope when this settles, Charlie Hebdo comes back even harder. Fuck these assholes trying to silence criticism of their bullshit faith.

 

[Interfectum]

Terrorism works, sadly.

 

[cyberheater]

As somebody hailing from a country who was ruled in sync with the Church, I say fuck that noise.

What country was that Funky Papa?
BTW I'm not strongly christian at all but I believe our (UK) cultural identity is based on it.

 

[marrec]

Are you saying the "western culture's" skirt was too short?

I don't even know how to respond to this terrible analogy, you've completely missed my point (and probably intentionally), so that you can push this idea of "lets find the problem with islam!".

I'm sorry I can't agree with you there. Western culture is by and large based on the Christian faith and I believe it should stay that way.

I don't see a reason why we need to necessarily lose western culture or ideals as we lose our archaic ties to a religion that in the past was just as extreme and violent as some islamic sects seem to be right now.

 

[whytemyke]

The clusterfuck that moron unleashed onto the world is going to haunt us for generations to come. It's crazy how much of today's issues with extremism can be traced not to 9/11 per se, but the senseless invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Going in without a plan and creating a power vacuum in the region was a sure way to destabilize the entire world.

The fact that 9/11 happened before he did anything at all is proof enough that he didn't "unleash" anything onto the world. The problems were already there. He just happened to bring them front and center.

Blaming Bush for any "West vs. Islam" problems that exist today is very short-sighted.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Charb : "I have no kids, no wife, no car, no credits. I may sound pretentious, but I I'd rather die standing than live on my knees."

He died a free man. RIP

 

[Funky Papa]

I don't want to open up another can of worms but AQ were active before 9/11 and progressively becoming more prominent. Terrorism isn't a new 'thing' and the Middle East has been a cluster for decades.

And their scope was largely limited before setting that firecracker off by invading Afghanistan and removing the Taliban from power. The Middle East and Afghanistan were simmering and the invasion turned the heat on, bringing it to a boil that ultimately spilt all over the place.

Blaming Bush for any "West vs. Islam" problems that exist today is very short-sighted.

That I did not did. Don't put words in my mouth.

What country was that Funky Papa?
BTW I'm not strongly christian at all but I believe our (UK) cultural identity is based on it.

Spain.

 

[WolfForager]

I'm properly disgusted by this and even more so by the cowardice shown by media outlets censoring the cartoons.

I wonder how this will effect the current anti-Islam marches in Germany and sure to be the rest of Europe before long.

 

[Psychotext]

They should be publishing it uncensored now more than ever.

 

[Typhares]

What is a moderate Muslim? Simply not being violent?
I'm asking seriously because coming from the south of France (not living there anymore) I could see people getting fed up with Muslims in a general kind of way for a perceived behavior (notably towards women) even though these people weren't hurting anyone.

All in all I pretty much despise religions in general although I admire faith if that makes sense.