Like I said. They had a strong beginning, but withered after the Mongol Invasion and Crusades which basically put them back to square one. So the 600 years less development time certainly didn't help with their modernisation and they fell far behind Christianity.
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Terror attack kills 12 at Paris newspaper - 4 wounded, gunmen identified
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
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Like I said. They had a strong beginning, but withered after the Mongol Invasion and Crusades which basically put them back to square one. So the 600 years less development time certainly didn't help with their modernisation and they fell far behind Christianity.
Flintty
Member
Exactly. Its just that the world is now a smaller place and shit gets reported more.
Yes! Why would ypu want to provoke anybody in the first place?
The reality is that organisations representating the Muslim community might send out a few press releases after this attack but we need massive widespread reform. European society is simply incompatible with Islam as it exists today. A vast majority of any population will always live peacefully but that doesn't change the underlying tensions with the doctrine. Something has to give, either we reform our society, stop insulting the prophet and accept certain demographic realities and the influence of Islam or we don't. You can dress it up anyway you like, in England newspapers are more willing to self censor these images in the name of tolerance and social peace. There are valid arguments for both sides, considering the utilitarian perspectives. It is easier for us to not provoke and adapt as we have not grown up under such dogmatic ideology.
maquiladora
Member
Saw this from another cartoonist on twitter, David Pope.
| Praxis |
Banned
I'm hoping the bullet missed him, it looks like it did but the camera moves away too quick to see if he moved again. If he did play dead then he did some quick thinking that hopefully saved hiss life.
It's not so simple as that. You're talking about the invasion and killing of multiple hundreds of thousands of people over more than a decade that was preceded by shady backroom dealings with dictators and the propping up of defunct and awful monarchies just because we wanted trade relations normalized.
"provoke" is much too simple to describe the myopic and destructive dealings "we" have had with islamic middle east culture.
Not surprising as these people also kill Muslims too
Maninthemirror
Banned
The original muslims already exist from 700 AD, the Moderates, the extremists are an offshoot. A bad Apple. Don't blame the fruit itself for a rotten Apple.
I hate to break it to you....but....Indonesia IS a breeding ground for terrorism.
We should always listen to an argument for respect in calm, rational terms (and that goes for anything, not just religion).
But we should never acknowledge or respect those who try to murder and rape their way to respect through terrorism. They deserve nothing but our judgment and condemnation.
I hope France finds the perpetrators in this case and prosecutes them to the full extent of their laws.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
So we should be more cautious before going all in and maybe devise proper strategies.
Plenty of experts warned America and its allies of massive risks in the event of a careless intervention. And instead of just fucking up in Afganisthan (which was already an extremely hard card to play) we went on to screw it in Iraq, which had fuck all to do with the situation and resulted into a colossal mess multiplier.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
From this point on, any high-profile Islamic extremist captured by the West should be subject to public humiliation.
Dress them up like babies and have them spanked on national television. Teach these morons some humility instead of just executing them.
Dress them up like babies and have them spanked on national television. Teach these morons some humility instead of just executing them.
Honey Bunny
Member
Take these satirical comics, for example.
Stereogatari
Banned
Indeed. The Islamist aversion to the West is more complicated than simple Quranic rhetoric.
Did they capture him or what do you mean with executed. I dont really wanna see it :/
Grasshopper
Neo Member
We should draw Mohammed in every paper around the world. I think Islam is one of the few, if not only, religion you can't make fun of. I find something/someone you can't make fun of extremely freighting. Why can you openly embarrass the vatican for allowing child molesting but can't say anything negative about someones prophet?
Sadly i've read news articles saying he died.
Thaedolus
Member
Lying helpless on the ground, terrorist pussy walks up to him and pops him in the head
Norwegian news are reporting that they killed the police officer. Hopefully they're wrong, but it doesn't look good unfortunately.
Maninthemirror
Banned
the Quranic rhetoric as reason this is happening is only brought up by those not caring about casualties, they want to add their interpretation into the mix to make their point, opportunism
maquiladora
Member
No...this is a terrible idea.
Murdered while on the ground.
As a French journalist rightly pointed out, these aren't executions because there's no recognised law ordering them, they're just cold blooded murders.
Always-honest
Banned
Saw this from another cartoonist on twitter, David Pope.
yeah they should post images like this tomorrow.
as horrible it was to watch that (i almost threw up), i thought they might have missed his head. Did he die?
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
One of my politics lecturers had an interesting theory for the prevalence of religiously-motivated violence in the "Islamic world", in that they've never had their own Thirty Years War: a war so terrible it virtually ended religious warfare in Europe and brought about the modern, secular concept of a nation-state (Treaty of Westphalia).
You realize that this is exactly what terrorists want. They want to pull down our society into their medieval mindset and for us to answer like with like, because that is what they know and that is the language they speak.
I don't know if it helps, but I listen, I do care and I do appreciate it. I understand that it must be rought as hell to be a moderate muslim in these conditions. The western public lumps you with the ISIS and whichever terrifying boogieman is on voge, while the more conservative muslims think of you as traitors and heretics. I know, it fucking sucks.
There are lot of good muslims that opposes these imbeciles, both in Europe and abroad. Unfortunately, these muslims doesn't seem to have the same level of political organization, financial backing and visibility than their more radicalized counterparts at the Muslim Brotherhood, Enhada and the likes :/ this ought to change, fast.
I can only give my "moral support" to you, but I frankly don't know what could be done in order to help you guys out. Most theological currents backing a modern interpretation of Islam dried out in the 1932 with the irruption of wahabbism. We should attempt to "resurrect" them, rather than demonize the entirety of the muslim community, I think. Either way, it's going to be a complex and hard process, so best luck to all of you.
Do we know for sure it's in Paris? Because it doesn't really look like it...
Thaedolus
Member
Generally accepted term "execution style murder," meaning the victim is completely incapacitated or otherwise unable to defend him/herself, then killed.
Tied up hostages being shot in the head, for example, would be considered execution style murders.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Saw this from another cartoonist on twitter, David Pope.
Haha, pretty good (but untranslatable)
| Praxis |
Banned
ComputerMKII
Banned
From the cartoonist of news channel BFMTV:
Translation: "Why? Shotgun? Kalashnikov? Grenade?"
Translation: "Why? Shotgun? Kalashnikov? Grenade?"
Always-honest
Banned
hmn, that's true.
Business
Member
Because feeling provoked to the extent of killing me for drawing a cartoon of your god is unacceptable.
You mean those imperialists who toppled democracies around the world and supported dictators?
It's in a suburb a few kilometers away. It's unrelated apparently, probably a car malfunction;
And maybe girls shouldn't be wearing those goddamn short skirts in public, no wonder ...
honestly. regardless of how insulted you feel by a drawing, it doesn't give you the slightest justification to end another person's life.
There's possibly some Christians who would feel provoked by someone holding hands with their same-sex partner during a wedding ceremony. Is it their fault if the reverend pulls out an AK and guns them down?
sure, provocateurs should always expect a backlash, but that must be somewhat proportional to the provocation.
I refuse to watch it too, but I believe
he was shot while already hurt and on the ground
Maninthemirror
Banned
...and he loses the entire argument with the last 3 words. smh
Alx
Member
Solidarity demonstrations are planned tonight or tomorrow all around the country, and also in Brussels, London and Berlin.
http://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs...ents-d-hommage-en-france_4550916_4355770.html
http://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs...ents-d-hommage-en-france_4550916_4355770.html
dripdripsplash
Member
True.
This thread is really showing the true faces of alot of posters.
Maninthemirror
Banned
you realized this just now?
Right. Point taken. The purpose of satire is to provoke.
That is correct, if not the answer to my question. But no worry, Honey Bunny is correct.
I wouldn't be so quick to judge. Most people (including me) are simply ignorant of these kinds of things and so they speak without having the full gravity of knowledge. I'm sorry you've been made to feel so isolated by some posters in this thread though.
Murder is the key word here and shouldn't be left out.
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