You're arguing for tyranny of the majority, which is prevented by legal rights. You may as well argue in favour of eliminating legal rights and broader human rights.
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Terror attack kills 12 at Paris newspaper - 4 wounded, gunmen identified
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
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You're arguing for tyranny of the majority, which is prevented by legal rights. You may as well argue in favour of eliminating legal rights and broader human rights.
Yeah, sounds about right. Religion and Communism share the same problem. Nice in theory, not working in reality.
Why is it so hard for some people to recognize the influence western policies have had on development and fomenting of radicalized cultures while separating that from individual murderers?
Again, it's not impossible to say "we really shouldn't continue the way we have been" while also saying "these murders are the result of madmen and their gangsters who support them". Refusing to have a nuanced view is only going to lead to more problems in the future.
John Kerry's press conference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFwedk4dBCc
Sorry if it's already posted
EDIT: It's over I think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFwedk4dBCc
Sorry if it's already posted
EDIT: It's over I think.
That Abhramic religion are Pathriarchal bullshit? Well that sound actually true, but maybe it's just me.
BaronLundi
Member
Maninthemirror
Banned
2 of the biggest countries with communism are also anti-religion in many of their policies, Cuba and China.....
Butts-a-plenty
Banned
knowing different languages is helpful for the top diplomat.
Seems like a nice thing to do for the french people.
Yes, and I applaud him for it, but holding a press conference in a foreign language just seems weird.
Interceptor
Banned
Nah, not phobic. Am i racistophobic because i ridicule them here in germany? Am i scientololgyphobic because i make fun of aliens? Am i meatophobic if i don´t like meat?
This whole phobic argument is a really nice pr move to put yourself in the victim position when there is none. Nothing more.
The French really appreciate it when you at least attempt to speak their language. It's a nice gesture.
DrGonzo615
Banned
Chat disabled...
Pretty sure he has some French origins
That is an interesting notion. The Thirty Year War was one of many religious wars that waged across Europe after the birth of Protestantism, and it's one of the deadliest periods in European history... killing several million people.
A better list of the wars and outcomes can be found here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_wars_of_religion
Of course, they don't want any competition. Also, modern-day China is hardly communist.
Maninthemirror
Banned
This is a great cartoon but I wonder how people would react if this cartoon was a result of a newspaper being banned from making racist cartoons in the US. would it be welcomed in the same way?
Vade
Member
Just avoid satire of Muslim or Islam, you might piss off their 'radical 1%' ,but everyone or thing is free game as they are less likely to act out.
Let's hold them up on a untouchable post. Just disgusting the enabling people are willing to give.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
Its either that or there are much more "bad apples" than apologists will admit.
Disclaimer: I don't know everything about the Muslim world. I know its extremely fragmented though.
Do we know if this ISIS related? I'm guessing so.
Maninthemirror
Banned
well I don't have hate in my heart for one. thats the advantage I have from my position. What is yours?
FlyingSaucer
Banned
Spending holidays in France as a child where your family own some properties surely helped, I guess.
No, it's the farthest thing from a valid argument. The fucking cornerstone of Western civilization is freedom of expression, and curtailing that freedom to appease an influx of easily offended immigrants is one of the most extreme threats to what makes the West what it is.
And your other ideas like more modesty.... are you serious? "Why yes Mr. Al-Baghdadi, I'll button up my blouse just because it offends you." Your line of reasoning is extraordinarily timid and frightening.
BaronLundi
Member
His mother was born in Paris.
CheDominik
Member
Getting banned and getting killed is the same thing now?
But yes, if someone got killed because some drawings offended someone racially, it would be wrong as well.
It would not nearly be the same thing, though.
I don't really agree the Thirty Years War was entirely about religion. I think in large part it was about the power of the Habsburg dynasty within the Holy Roman Empire (and the strength of the Holy Roman Empire as an entity) and beyond, certainly that's what it was about towards the end of the Thirty Years War anyway.
What makes this problem worse is the way this discussion is framed. People go straight into examining Muslims actually believe, interpretations of the Quran etc. It is clear that the majority of Muslims do not hold violent views and do not condone such acts of violence, and saying otherwise incites against and marginalizes a large population of innocent people who want nothing except live their lives normally.
On the other hand, the phenomenon of Islamic terrorism is not incidental or marginal and this problem simply cannot be ignored. Instead of focusing on Muslim beliefs, moderates/extremists and so forth, we should be looking at the political aspect of it.
Political Islam is a political ideology, one that is dominant or striving for dominance in all Middle Eastern countries (and in Pakistan). You have Wahhabi Political Islam in the Gulf, you have Shia Political Islam in Iran, Iraq and Lebanon and you have Muslim Brotherhood Political Islam in Egypt, Gaza, Turkey and Qatar. The continued failure of Middle Eastern states to develop a strong national identity or civil culture means that political Islam is the dominant political ideology. The political power at the hands of political Islam is the source of this issue. It's an ideology that uses nostalgia for the Islamic world's magnificent past and fears of globalization to force conservative, sexist, and intolerant values. For decades states that are ruled by political Islam have used this ideology as a way of exerting power. The problem is that religious extremism is very hard to control once it has been unleashed and impossible to tame, and this ideology has spread itself to every corner of the globe where Muslims are unhappy (including all of the Middle East and a lot of Europe). The numbers don't matter here. 3 people with guns can affect the fates of thousands. A dozen people with pilot training changed the entire world.
It doesn't matter if most Muslims do not partake in violence - the ideology is strong and durable, and the only way to fight it is at the source. As long as the Arab states do not create an alternative political ideology, political Islam would continue to be dominant and its violence offshoots would continue to cause damage around the world.
On the other hand, the phenomenon of Islamic terrorism is not incidental or marginal and this problem simply cannot be ignored. Instead of focusing on Muslim beliefs, moderates/extremists and so forth, we should be looking at the political aspect of it.
Political Islam is a political ideology, one that is dominant or striving for dominance in all Middle Eastern countries (and in Pakistan). You have Wahhabi Political Islam in the Gulf, you have Shia Political Islam in Iran, Iraq and Lebanon and you have Muslim Brotherhood Political Islam in Egypt, Gaza, Turkey and Qatar. The continued failure of Middle Eastern states to develop a strong national identity or civil culture means that political Islam is the dominant political ideology. The political power at the hands of political Islam is the source of this issue. It's an ideology that uses nostalgia for the Islamic world's magnificent past and fears of globalization to force conservative, sexist, and intolerant values. For decades states that are ruled by political Islam have used this ideology as a way of exerting power. The problem is that religious extremism is very hard to control once it has been unleashed and impossible to tame, and this ideology has spread itself to every corner of the globe where Muslims are unhappy (including all of the Middle East and a lot of Europe). The numbers don't matter here. 3 people with guns can affect the fates of thousands. A dozen people with pilot training changed the entire world.
It doesn't matter if most Muslims do not partake in violence - the ideology is strong and durable, and the only way to fight it is at the source. As long as the Arab states do not create an alternative political ideology, political Islam would continue to be dominant and its violence offshoots would continue to cause damage around the world.
Hopefully they catch the terrorists and take down their network. Absolutely appalling news.
What do you mean by welcomed? Anyway for the US this terrible incident reminds me of South Park and how Comedy Central censored Muhammed if I recall correctly. It is also worth noting that the NYPD boosted security at Comedy Central HQ
What do you mean by welcomed? Anyway for the US this terrible incident reminds me of South Park and how Comedy Central censored Muhammed if I recall correctly. It is also worth noting that the NYPD boosted security at Comedy Central HQ
His Majesty
Banned
Not surprised, the tolerance level in France (especially among the youth) for ISIS is extremely high. Also not surprised at people who are somehow justifying the attack.
Maninthemirror
Banned
I am talking about the perception to the cartoon, one viewed as proof there should be more satire and one would be viewed as not good for society because the blank cartoon can be applied by both parties.
It is just a matter of valuation. Religious freedoms, freedom to express ones ideas and hate speech laws are all part our constitution (from national to European Charter of Fundamental Rights). As our culture changes so does also the border between these freedoms. If Muslims become a more influential part of our community then we have to adapt if they are still ideologically rigid and demand change.
Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I am not advocating for censorship, just saying we should be honest when we talk about immigration policy and how the changing demographics will remold Europe. This is just something we have to deal with and I'd rather it is Islam that conforms.
Interceptor
Banned
My advantage is to feel pity. Pity for all those wasted potentials. The human being is an awesome development of nature. We wield the power to free our minds, to use our intellect, to create our own fate.
Then i see those people installing DOS on their 2015 high end computers. I feel pity for this wasted potential of the human species. Nothing else. Imagine what the world could achieve if we free ourselfs from those hilarious beliefs.
Frustrated_me
Member
Speaking as a Muslim and with full transparency, I can tell you that what you're suggesting will never happen.
The religion is too lost in it's ways. Culture oppresses anyone from speaking out loudly. Yes you'll have the few speak out living in the western world, but the people that live in the muslim world cannot freely speak out. Too much fear, oppression, and of course being targeted afterwards.
It's terrible really.
Maninthemirror
Banned
I feel pity too but I dont blame the entire french society for the views of ultra nationalists. I dont compartmentalize and I dont generalize, I see the people who hate and only view them as haters not their families and friends who share the same goals of society as free but in a better way. If you looked in that lens to Muslims you would also only blame radicalists not the religion. As I said before. Blame the rotten Apple, not the fruit
Satire should just be accepted as a thing that will happen. Non believers are in their right to satirize other religions.
ComputerMKII
Banned
They were filmed shouting their motivations on video...
ElodieTicotoune
Banned
Here in Canada, as of 2012. 2 countries in our top 10 immigration list are places that have high amounts of these scums.
4th place : Pakistan
7th place : Iran
People bitch and moan here against those people, yet we have our doors open to them all wide open. That top 10 is calculated to be 56% of the entire immigration. The rest of our 44% is from other countries and i imagine that many more of them idiots get in from there.
Where I live we have 1 church, and 12 mosques... eventually we will get overrun by these Muslim, Islamic, Radical people.
Why people hate these groups is simple, they follow a religion that treats woman like shit and have fuck up views and ways.
And stop fucking eating shawarmas lol, i betcha some of those are put in place to make money and send that cash back to the terrorist groups. There are more shawarma places than McDonalds here.
4th place : Pakistan
7th place : Iran
People bitch and moan here against those people, yet we have our doors open to them all wide open. That top 10 is calculated to be 56% of the entire immigration. The rest of our 44% is from other countries and i imagine that many more of them idiots get in from there.
Where I live we have 1 church, and 12 mosques... eventually we will get overrun by these Muslim, Islamic, Radical people.
Why people hate these groups is simple, they follow a religion that treats woman like shit and have fuck up views and ways.
And stop fucking eating shawarmas lol, i betcha some of those are put in place to make money and send that cash back to the terrorist groups. There are more shawarma places than McDonalds here.
Squirrel Killer
Member
I'm generalizing here, but since so many European countries already ban speech like hate speech and Holocaust denial, why is "images of Muhammad" the line they refuse to cross? I mean, as an ardent free speech advocate, I'm glad they have a line they won't cross, but I don't get why that's the hill they chose to literally die on.
DrGonzo615
Banned
+1 I cant believe some of the total fucking bullshit Ive read in this topic. "Lets just appease them!" Good god, some of you people should be ashamed.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Yeah, I have no idea why he'd do this... (this is sarcasm)
loaf of bread
Member
I don't understand the Islam religion. Wasn't the whole thing with Mohammed was that he didn't want to be worshipped and he emphasized that he's just a messenger for the real god who you should worship? But many of these people seem to just worship him anyways? Am I missing something?
Maninthemirror
Banned
thats an interesting question, Why are anti semetic jokes banned (which they should be) while anti muslim jokes cheered (which they shouldnt be)
Certainly. I hope I didn't come of believing The Thirty Years War was entirely religion, even though religion played a central part of it.
SniperHunter
Banned
you are utterly clueless and completely deluded. there is so much wrong with this post, i don't even know where to begin
jimbobsmells
Member
I need to stop reading Twitter when there are imbeciles like this:
https://twitter.com/sururi_slayer/status/552857411464478720
https://twitter.com/sururi_slayer/status/552857411464478720
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