Pretty much everything in society is like this.
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Terror attack kills 12 at Paris newspaper - 4 wounded, gunmen identified
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
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Pretty much everything in society is like this.
It's like this thread travelled back in time 2 1/2 months.
Squirrel Killer
Member
Not even that unless you're driving or flying.
paperboywriter
Member
so what can be done against this scum?
Last I checked you don't need any ID. You need a driver's license if you're driving, but there are other forms of transportation.
Perhaps you shouldn't have responded to someone making a point about nonviolence, then.
If you're not a citizen and flying in from another country, yes. After that you don't need one though IIRC
This is comparing travel in the EU to USA?
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I wish every newspaper would do a variation on this. That would send a message.
Calling SD racists and fascist?
Ah Ok, I can't go by the interview then I have to go into the context of Harris' wider work?
OK. First let's say that at best Harris was manipulated by Affleck to fall into rhetorical traps JUST IN THAT INTERVIEW where he agreed that he is 'the person who understands the officially codified doctrine of Islam? (He) is the interpreter of that.'
And then instead of being specific and saying SOME VERSIONS of ISLAM he just mispoke by going full on general and attacked the whole thing when he said "Islam at the moment is the mother lode of bad ideas." (Not some versions of the thing. The whole damn thing.)
And then he wasn't actually serious when he said "here are hundreds of millions of Muslims who are nominal Muslims who don’t take the faith seriously, who don’t want to kill apostates, who are horrified by ISIS" So any muslim who doesn't want to kill apostates and isn't horrified by ISIS is a 'nominal muslim who doesn't take the faith seriously' Because HEY Sam Harris is the final authority on THAT.
LET'S JUST GIVE HIM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT ON ALL OF THAT for some reason that I don't understand at all. Fine.
How about His fear-mongering easily debunked bullshit about MUSLIMS DEMOGRAPHICALLY TAKING OVER EUROPE as he does here?
http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/the-reality-of-islam
"Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe. The demographic trends are ominous: Given current birthrates, France could be a majority Muslim country in 25 years, and that is if immigration were to stop tomorrow."
Or how about his horrific statement that "“We are not at war with terrorism. We are at war with Islam.” Again not 'some version of Islam' ISLAM. Which he apparently can define completely and totally from his own fevered imagination which, for some reason, has more authority for you than what the opinion of actual muslims may be.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/dec/1/20041201-090801-2582r/
There may be some things Harris says that appeal to you but why should that give him a free pass for when he turns around and says horrific irrational shit?
They don't need to get the majority though. Just enough votes to force themselves in the government (like Heider in Austria years ago) or to actively block the functioning of the government on the back of a divided political scene like recently in Sweden.
Of course, not having majority means that the democracy is not fully in danger, but they could still have a negative influence on the public policies.
Canis lupus
Member
Yeah it's really sad. We don't see these people as muslims, no one I know will sympathize with those fucks since it's us they're hurting the most. Muslims have been able to live peacefully alongside jews and christians, on or outside muslim majority nations for a millenium so it's not a compatibility issue with western lifestyles. In Turkey they had hardcore laicist secularists in power for 100 years, the call to prayer was even changed to Turkish and no one got bombed or murdered over it.
Wahhabism is the root of all this evil fundementalism.
paperboywriter
Member
you dont need ID while traveling through europe. only airtravel.
Blackquill
Member
I am not. But it's just words, anyone can say that. Anyway, no matter what are these people, it still sucks.
Depends on their origin and influences.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Maybe people do not agree with the bullshit you have to say.
I'm having trouble exercising restraint in my response to you, so I'll just leave it at that.
Then how about the actual bad ideas of the religion. Lets discuss those.
dapperbandit
Banned
Please.
Paranoid hypotheticals and slippery slopes everywhere in this thread.
Your fever dream of what might happen if
ComputerMKII
Banned
Sorry, I'll translate it. sorry for the late answer but it's hard to keep up with the thread, the French media and real life)
It was just an average comment from Egalité & Réconciliation, the main "anti-Zionist" movements in France. No matter the story, they will find a way to spin it against Israel.
It's funny because in some countries we see as backward now we're once bastions of civil liberties among Muslim countries before fundamentalists took over in the past few decades.
paperboywriter
Member
"Spanish caricaturists: "And this is our gun"
There is a vast chasm between a party like the FN or PVV being part of a cabinet, and pushing through things like stricter immigration policies, and between seizing power and start committing crimes against humanity. Aside from that, almost all these parties condemn violence, not exactly typical of fascist movements. Just seems like needless fearmongering to say that this attack will lead to such a shift in European politics that fascist movements will seize power and start murdering Muslims.
I think a religon can be bad in ways other than murder, though I can't speak on the Koran and the prophet Mohammed which forms the basis for your religion. I left my religion (Christianity) over the many terrible things in our holy book. I wouldn't mind seeing a debate on specifics of the religion's books. Would be interesting.
I am aware of that. I was commenting on traveling state to state in the US.
Calling every voters that voted for them that. And yes, calling them fascist is stupid too as it water down the word. I don't see them as fascist, more like hardcore conservative. Everyone use the word fascist all the time for everything that it doesn't mean anything today. Orwell saw problem with this in 1944 for goodness sake. http://orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_Please/english/efasc
You know what, i'm really not fucking worried about 'omg right wing going to capitilise on this!' just after a bunch of blokes were brazenly slaughtered in broad daylight over cartoons.
To those saying that, you are just as guilty of rubbing your hands together in glee after seeing this shit and not even waiting untill the corpses are cold to take shots.
To those saying that, you are just as guilty of rubbing your hands together in glee after seeing this shit and not even waiting untill the corpses are cold to take shots.
I don't have any intellectual issue with the notion that a Non-muslim could know more about Islam than an actual Muslim.
No issue at all.
Unless conversion to the faith automatically bestows upon you a great wisdom and understanding?
Anyway, people have expressed their irritating at this derailment, so perhaps you can start another thread for taking Harris out of context. In the mean time we should move on here.
You took umbrance to a very minor aside in a much more detailed post which was simply expressing the notion that people shouldn't be brutally executed for expressing an IDEA. Hopefully we are on the same page there.
Even then, it's quite astonishing how often I've flown without showing any kind of ID. Maybe I just look trustworthy
It's all a matter if opinion really, I'd imagine a good chunk of all the people with some kind of believe in a religion don't swear to it in its entirety.
Psychotext
Member
You've either not being paying attention, or you've chosen not to look.
Canis lupus
Member
Greece, really? Do you even follow Greek politics? The majority of them vote for leftist parties. It's like one of the few countries in the world where communists have some power still.
Golden Dawn? They are a joke and their small voter base prove it.
Serbia? Why Serbia?
I agree with you. But the (major) problem I have with SD is the representatives (majority of them what I can see) have a very telling background of being racist and fascist.
Their politics, on paper, isn't racist or so... it just ozing from the background though what they really want.
BaronLundi
Member
"Spanish caricaturists: "And this is our gun"
Chilean caricaturist actually. Posted it a few pages ago
https://twitter.com/oleismos/status/552829704785633280
It would be better to do so in a situation where you weren't presenting someone with a peremptory challenge of his own beliefs.
paperboywriter
Member
Even then, it's quite astonishing how often I've flown without showing any kind of ID. Maybe I just look trustworthy
i consider that a good thing. i dont want american standards.
Whoa, a friend of yours tagged you in the video? That's sick
Maninthemirror
Banned
http://www.vox.com/2014/12/15/7394223/muslims-condemn-terrorism-sydney
it will fall on deaf ears even when have responded.
Agree on that.
Sickboy007
Member
Unbelievably tragic and troubling. Nothing else to say, really.
You don't need a passport to fly within the US, but you still need an ID matching your itinerary.
That's because they're not the majority in these countries. Compare the difference in Islam in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan and then India. What's the difference? There are 900 million Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists in India that wouldn't take kindly to any extremism again. Islam itself becomes moderated when it's a minority religion because they have no choice. But to say it's always been peaceful is ridiculous.
The only option is to live peacefully and integrate with Western or non-Muslim ideals, otherwise they're goners. Now look at Muslim majority nations, very few are inviting of other religions, and there are often numerous attacks against Christians, Jews, etc.
What?
Harris said:
I criticize some Muslims all the damn time and some versions of Islam (to be specific... which people really should be and Harris completely isn't.. Extremist Salafism which is sometimes known as Wahhabism which is a pretty damn recent phenomenon in Islam). That's a far cry from criticizing 'Islam' in absurdly reductive simplistic terms as Harris does.
thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
Sam Harris cannot be "manipulated" by someone like Ben Affleck. That made me laugh out loud. That's like Mini-Me trying to dunk on Shaq. Look at how red-faced and angry Affleck gets during that discussion as he goes around labeling people as racist, it's embarrassing.
The specific quote you link to in the article needs some clarification. Here, Harris is saying that the US is claiming to be at war with "terrorism", but is actually at war with a certain form of extreme Islam. You conveniently left out the part where he says "we are not at war with all Muslims".
He doesn't say "horrific, irrational shit". He speaks a very carefully considered and worded argument, which you are interpreting to be an insult to your religion and fear-mongering. It isn't, it's just the facts.
Again, Sam Harris is one of the most level-head and unbigoted people you could ever hope to have a debate with. He only wants truth and reason, and for bad ideas to be questioned, as they should be.
D
Deleted member 286591
Unconfirmed Member
French GAFer here. Just got back from work. Man, what a shitty, horrible weird ass day. I grew up reading Charlie, I still can't really believe this shit. I have so much anger right now, and it's like I dunno what to do with it.
Went to the Capitole place in Toulouse straight after work, lots of people assembled there (and in all major cities too), yelled freedom and were waving "I am Charlie" signs.
Was very emotional. I feel like shit, and can't even beging to fathom the victims' families...
Sorry, not much interesting to add to all that's already been said. I guess I needed to vent somehow.
Went to the Capitole place in Toulouse straight after work, lots of people assembled there (and in all major cities too), yelled freedom and were waving "I am Charlie" signs.
Was very emotional. I feel like shit, and can't even beging to fathom the victims' families...
Sorry, not much interesting to add to all that's already been said. I guess I needed to vent somehow.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Sam Harris has proved with his own words that he in the minds of most muslims is a Bigot. You know who don't find him a bigot? Radicalists because he believes Islam of the radicalists is the real islam.
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