malingenie
Member
Nope. This is not how we should behave today. Plus it would only further some of their goals.
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Terror attack kills 12 at Paris newspaper - 4 wounded, gunmen identified
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
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Nope. This is not how we should behave today. Plus it would only further some of their goals.
Maninthemirror
Banned
I asked your opinion do you think they were following their faith or distorting their faith. and if you are going to respond with "well islam has different interpretations" are you really putting me as a moderate and the majority of the 1.6 billion on equal footing as these radicals? really? That is really offensive if you think my conformation to my faith is the same as the radicalists. My conformation is higher and more firm than the radicalists in every way
| Praxis |
Banned
This isn't a movie, real life tends to play out quite differently.
Apparently they know the identity of atleast one.
stufte
Member
I think they were following their faith. As with many religions verses are easily misinterpreted, and because of that people see the meanings in a multitude of ways. Whether that was the way it was taught to them, or the way they interpreted it on their own, they are most definitely following their faith as they see it.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Of course they are following their faith. There are loads of interpretations of Islam, just like there are of Christianity and any other religion, and this is the one they truly and sincerely believe in. Is it a distorted version of Islam compared to what you and most other Muslims believe? Yes, obviously. But is it incorrect? Pretty sure there are verses that can be interpreted in a way that supports what they're doing, so not really.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
The spontaneous and worldwide reaction is awe inspiring.
London
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xCwuSCIAAL3yo.jpg[/IM]
Vienna
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xFX54CMAAAbp3.jpg:large[/IM]
Lyon
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6w68M2CQAAkoUJ.jpg:large[/IM]
Rennes
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xAxVsIgAAzE-i.jpg[/IM]
Montreal - Radio Canada
[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xJ97xCEAAm33B.png:large[/MG]
AFP
[MG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xBxMlCYAATFkF.jpg:large
Frankfurt
[MG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xNJ28CIAAT5mx.jpg[/IMG]
Israel
[MG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6xEk1lCYAAQSAB.jpg[/IMG]
Tagesspiel
[MG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6wzbA9CUAEJ2P-.jpg:large[/IMG]
This is awesome!
That seems to be the case from what I've read on major German websites; the video where the policeman gets shot in the head shows that those guys exactly knew how to handle those weapons; it seemed almost casual the way he shot him.
Huh? My point is that some precepts of some versions of Buddhism were used to justify horrific actions. Much like what happens with some precepts of some versions of Islam.
GalacticSushiman
Member
This is happening now, you are unlikely to get any precise information from public sources as they could be used by the perpetrators to avoid the police.
Benjamin Franklin once said: Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.
BaronLundi
Member
Actually, what I really would like to come back in full effect is that quote from the mayor of Oslo after Utoya.
Fabian Stang said:
Ninja Of Chaos
Member
Weren't you the guy that came up with the whole "muslim logic" in the other thread?
And what, you are going to show context to something someone posts and therefore show that it doesn't mean that and means the opposite (I know that is what you do).
So to simplify for you. If a part of the philosophy says B and another part A makes it say ~B, you are proving my point. The points have to be consistent both in context and out of it.
Angry Fork
Member
Religion is ignorance. Your examples of "secular" murders are irrelevant. Secularism is a moral, logical ideology that should continue to be perused by all governments/people regardless of what people have done in the past. The same cannot be said of organized religion.
When people say we should get rid of religion, it isn't to say religion is responsible for all problems, only that getting rid of it will solve many of them. And this would not come at a negative cost to the world as secular organizations/governments/people can do everything positive "good" religious people do.
Palette Swap
Member
Watching Le Petit Journal, remembering how awesome these people were.
They did achieve one thing at least: people woke the fuck up and remembered they value freedom and liberal ideas. That's what Charlie is about.
Why would we want to degrade ourselves in such a way?
Corronchilejano
Member
RustyNails
Member
Speaking as a Muslim, these murderer cowards drawing breath while innocent French victims are lying dead in their own pool of blood is not fair. I think it's very fair to seek death penalty for these murderous crimes. Look at how Anders Breivik is living. Dude has Playstation 2 in his cell, and is currently requesting to upgrade it Playstation 3. He is sitting in his "cell" playing videogames as a punishment for killing 70 school kids. Do we want that?
Maninthemirror
Banned
so we have two examples here where people think the radicals who killed today are following the actual faith rather than distorting the actual faith of the majority thus saying the majority of muslims in the world are by proxy, when they condemn these radicals, are not truely following their faith. SMH
here fucking here. We can have one, without the delusions of the other.
Snkfanatic
Banned
What the....
PsychoSoldier
Banned
But many people have read the same book, and presumably the same verses and come to a different conclusion.
We can't just handwave Islam's role in this by saying they're interpreting the book wrong.
Maybe you and the 1.6 are distorting your faith. You are according to the radicals. And they can also find it offensive if you'd say otherwise, no? Can you not see how this follows?
Maninthemirror
Banned
If you want to be embarassed, go ahead your call, i am game. I want to avoid Quranic verses here but if you really want to? make my day.
Uh, the two most horrific and barbaric wars of the twentieth century would beg to differ. World War I and World War II.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Trying to paint Japan's aggression after modernizing as something that had anything to do with religion is just the height of ridiculousness.
There's a lot to be learned from how Norway handled their terror case, the only ones having a problem with Breivik's fate today are people outside of Norway.
How about you let France figure out how they want to deal with this?
That's interesting, because we've no idea what group those terrorists are affiliated with or who they are. Why assume a culture war when the vast majority of terrorists cite politics as their motivation?
That's nice, but the west still butchered several hundred thousand people
Circle Jerk
Member
Hey man its probably time to stop posting in this thread because you are coming off as legit unhinged right now. Stop with the make my day shit and go calm down. You are losing every argument you are in right now because emotion has completely taken over you.
Ninja Of Chaos
Member
And per logical reality, your interpretation would be as good (and correct) as anyone else's.
TimeEffect
Member
Wow i dont think i want to see this at all
Making my blood boil just thinking of it
Most people don't care as long as he isn't out killing people.
Angry Fork
Member
Nobody is saying you're the same as them, only that these kinds of terrorist acts cannot be separated from islamic ideology. Both positive and negative interpretations can come from the quran, but people continue to pretend it is only a positive book/ideology. It just isn't, it's the same with christianity. And why people continue to believe in something that has already been proven untrue by science remains baffling/harmful.
Maninthemirror
Banned
No I am not. what makes you think I am unhinged. lol. perception is a funny thing
People have been wondering why many people on GAF have a "lol religion" mentality? This is one reason why.
For people who continue to say it's just a minority...well yes, it is, but say you had 10 million Muslims mobilizing at once. There are 1.6 billion people in the religion. Those 10 million would still be a minority, but if something like that happened, I think you'd be hard pressed to find people who think Islamic extremism is such a small problem.
There have been too many issues like this. Sorry to the genuinely good Muslims, but it's clear Islam, in this day and age, inspires too many acts of barbarism. A small minority can still cause BIG problems.
For people who continue to say it's just a minority...well yes, it is, but say you had 10 million Muslims mobilizing at once. There are 1.6 billion people in the religion. Those 10 million would still be a minority, but if something like that happened, I think you'd be hard pressed to find people who think Islamic extremism is such a small problem.
There have been too many issues like this. Sorry to the genuinely good Muslims, but it's clear Islam, in this day and age, inspires too many acts of barbarism. A small minority can still cause BIG problems.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
That's not what you asked. You didn't ask "are they following the faith of the majority of Muslims?", you asked "are they following their faith?". And I answered that yes, I very much think they are. They are following their version of Islam. One of thousands (if not more) of different versions.
It's easy for me though to valiantly claim things like that. I am not French, I don't live there, I don't know these people. I cannot imagine how the French must feel, let alone what the families and friends of the victims are going through.
It's important to remember that in the heat of the moment, people often say or write or do things they would not have done with some (emotional/geographical/temporal) distance.
Resident_UA
Member
GAF never disappoints... A religion debate again? What's your solution? Kill every Muslim?! Do you think world will be a better place as a result?
1. News media should be posting cartoons from Charlie NOT blurring them out
2. Muslims need to unite in condemning terrorists. I don't think they are doing enough which is a problem in Europe where far right is getting some traction.
3. People need to stop generalizing. When you blame religion for acts of a terrorist group you are not much better than terrorists who hate you because of your beliefs.
1. News media should be posting cartoons from Charlie NOT blurring them out
2. Muslims need to unite in condemning terrorists. I don't think they are doing enough which is a problem in Europe where far right is getting some traction.
3. People need to stop generalizing. When you blame religion for acts of a terrorist group you are not much better than terrorists who hate you because of your beliefs.
Stereogatari
Banned
There are a lot of pseudo-intellectuals both in the West and even among some Turks, who exaggerate the religiosity and conservatism that exists in Anatolia. The number of internet comments I've read about how "Istanbul is the exception, but go on the Asian part of Turkey and see it's another world" makes my blood boil. Off the top of my head alone we have the liberal bastions of Izmir, Antalya, Balikesir, Eskisehir, Adana, Ankara (THE FUCKING CAPITAL) etc. etc. etc. the list goes on and on and on, in fact some of the Anatolian cities are overall more liberal than Istanbul is.
Then let us take the Black Sea region which is admittedly conservative, but not the kind of Islamic Conservatism that Westerners think of. Black Sea people remind me of the American Midwest or Southern US States.
The one part of Turkey where medieval Islamic values (child brides, 4 wives etc.) hold sway is the South-East Kurdish majority region. But acknowledging that fact would go against the rhetoric that Turks are the evil Muslims and Kurds are the meek Seculars.
Snkfanatic
Banned
Make your day? Ok....
maquiladora
Member
I don't think more death is the answer. As long as those responsible are locked away from society then that's all that matter. Killing people makes martyrs which can be be used as inspiration for others, and those committing this crime clearly do not fear death so it does not act as a deterrent.
stufte
Member
Wow. Way to twist my words. Tell me where I said that they were following "the actual faith". Please.
Lmao, that was a good read.
That's not what I said. Again I said some precepts of some versions of Buddhism were used to justify and condone horrific acts. Is there something wrong with this?
That is only based on your own morality. If we're to be honest, the views of these terrorists from their lens is one that is "higher and more firm" than yours, because from a moral perspective, it comes to individual validation. The problem of morality is it is shaped by culture and conditioning, and using your morality to value the morality of another is a game that produces no honest winner. The view of ISIS on a perspective of morality is just as valid as a Scientologist, and just as valid as a pacifist: by this I mean with their own ego, their own image they have identified with, it's acceptable.
There is no evidence, not in even by using the number of people doing X against the ones doing Y, that infers one has it "right" and the other has it "wrong". It is simple a number of people doing X, and a number of people doing Y. The opinion held by the majority doesn't necessarily make it more moral or true: you just have a larger population buying one lens than another. This is why one has to go beyond morality and look at humanity. Otherwise one will be beguiled by their own confirmation bias, regardless of how sincere they pry.
I hope I am not saying anything that is bewildering, here.
It would be nicer seeing these pictures coming from Istanbul, Bagdad, Kairo etc.
but of course it's pretty much a pipe dream to ask for people that have little to no free speech protest for the free speech of some infidel cartoonist in Europe.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Did you read?
I gave two options
1. Are they following their faith (Islam)
2. Are they distorting their faith (Islam)
No one has a monopoly on the faith but you suggested the radicalists were following Islam thus saying they were doing what Islam says. What do you think the Moderates are doing? Distorting Islam? lol
Both Moderates and Radicals cant be following what Islam says when both are completely different ways to live life based on Islam.
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