The Big Ass Superior Thread of Learning Japanese
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robertsan21
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anyone in here that can translate this for me, Bablefish is shit!
Ｇ大阪が豪州入り18時間ヘトヘト
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　ＡＣＬメルボルン戦に臨むＧ大阪は７日、敵地オーストラリア入りし、初練習を行った。関西空港からメルボルンへの直行便がないため、香港経由で約１８時間をかけての大移動。日本代表の海外遠征で飛行機には慣れているはずのＭＦ遠藤でさえ疲れた表情を浮かべた。現在Ｇ組首位チョンブリ（タイ）と勝ち点４で並び、得失点差で２位につける。ＤＦ山口は「アウェーの難しさは分かっている。最低勝ち点１」と話した。
Ｇ大阪が豪州入り18時間ヘトヘト
記事を印刷する
　ＡＣＬメルボルン戦に臨むＧ大阪は７日、敵地オーストラリア入りし、初練習を行った。関西空港からメルボルンへの直行便がないため、香港経由で約１８時間をかけての大移動。日本代表の海外遠征で飛行機には慣れているはずのＭＦ遠藤でさえ疲れた表情を浮かべた。現在Ｇ組首位チョンブリ（タイ）と勝ち点４で並び、得失点差で２位につける。ＤＦ山口は「アウェーの難しさは分かっている。最低勝ち点１」と話した。
HaloFans said:
the first one means something like 'don't be shy, eat up', when people are fussing around the table and think it would be rude to start eating, etc.
okagesama de means 'because of you'. They say it a lot in japanese
ogenki desu ka?
ee, okage sama de.
Robertson, that looks like it's from a blog, and is kind of hard to understand. It sounds like it's from a K-1 blog or something similar. Some dudes going to Australia. Nothing really vital.
robertsan21
Member
tnw said:
it is quite vital
I need to know IF they are going to go to australia OR if they are already there
robertsan21
Member
tnw said:
okej thanks
Zoe
Member
For some reason a conversation I had a few years ago popped into my head today.
Me: はい、少しだけ話せます
Guy: うわぁぁぁ <guy runs to adjoining room>、彼女日本語しゃべられるんだ!
Others: <chorus of しゃべられる>
It's right that I used 話せる, isn't it? No matter how many times I play it in my head, it feels akward to use しゃべられる on myself.　
Me: はい、少しだけ話せます
Guy: うわぁぁぁ <guy runs to adjoining room>、彼女日本語しゃべられるんだ!
Others: <chorus of しゃべられる>
It's right that I used 話せる, isn't it? No matter how many times I play it in my head, it feels akward to use しゃべられる on myself.　
RK, how is that kanken thing going?
I picked up the second one, and trying to get to 100% completion of the training exercises is tough going. I am at 37% but I swear half the questions are the same (and the other half are half the same). Does it actually prevent you from continuing the training stuff after 100%?
I'm sure I can pass 10 and maybe 9 easily, but I'm going through all of the exercises to learn new vocab I didn't know, whether or not it's related to the kanji being tested.
I picked up the second one, and trying to get to 100% completion of the training exercises is tough going. I am at 37% but I swear half the questions are the same (and the other half are half the same). Does it actually prevent you from continuing the training stuff after 100%?
I'm sure I can pass 10 and maybe 9 easily, but I'm going through all of the exercises to learn new vocab I didn't know, whether or not it's related to the kanji being tested.
sasimirobot
Junior Member
has anyone really encountered problems with inflection/tones/accent/stess in Japanese?
I mean, some Japanese person was thinking:
"why does he want to walk on chopsticks, holding a bridge, eating rice, on the edge of a knife?"
It happened to me once and only once, and then the Japanese person I was talking to understood I what I meant by context (she knew I meant bridge and not chopsticks)
Also, I have noticed that there seems to be a slight "ya" sound in the middle of salmon susi, even though it isn't spelled as such.
This might be my biggest weakness with Japanese, the inflection of certain words...
I mean, some Japanese person was thinking:
"why does he want to walk on chopsticks, holding a bridge, eating rice, on the edge of a knife?"
It happened to me once and only once, and then the Japanese person I was talking to understood I what I meant by context (she knew I meant bridge and not chopsticks)
Also, I have noticed that there seems to be a slight "ya" sound in the middle of salmon susi, even though it isn't spelled as such.
This might be my biggest weakness with Japanese, the inflection of certain words...
sasimirobot
Junior Member
tnw said:
so then
pera pera=?
pera pera isn't a verb.
you can say 'pera pera shaberu' for example.
My biggest thing is with jukugo. you'll say something like 'toukan' intending to say, oh let's just say lighthouse (yes I know it's not lighthouse'. They'll give you this *head tilt* '????' look, and then say 'ah! TOUkan, ne?!' -_-
you can say 'pera pera shaberu' for example.
sasimirobot said:
My biggest thing is with jukugo. you'll say something like 'toukan' intending to say, oh let's just say lighthouse (yes I know it's not lighthouse'. They'll give you this *head tilt* '????' look, and then say 'ah! TOUkan, ne?!' -_-
sasimirobot
Junior Member
nm
I was wondering if:
らりるわろ
Are pronounced with more of an L sound or more of an R sound? The romanji shows them as "R_", but then again no one here likes romanji.
For example, listen to them on this page (roll over the kana), is it accurate? I'm finding it somewhat difficult to duplicate the sound that the boy makes.
らりるわろ
Are pronounced with more of an L sound or more of an R sound? The romanji shows them as "R_", but then again no one here likes romanji.
For example, listen to them on this page (roll over the kana), is it accurate? I'm finding it somewhat difficult to duplicate the sound that the boy makes.
Zoe
Member
Did you mean らりるれろ?
My suggestion... don't stress about the pseudo-L sound (it should be somewhere between an 'R' and an 'L'). If you can do it, that's great, but the sound doesn't exist in English and IMO trying to force it sounds worse than using a plain old (soft) 'R'.
You're more than likely to speak with an accent anyway until you're fully immersed in the language.
My suggestion... don't stress about the pseudo-L sound (it should be somewhere between an 'R' and an 'L'). If you can do it, that's great, but the sound doesn't exist in English and IMO trying to force it sounds worse than using a plain old (soft) 'R'.
You're more than likely to speak with an accent anyway until you're fully immersed in the language.
tnw said:
On that note: http://sp.cis.iwate-u.ac.jp/sp/lesson/j/doc/accentl.html
But yeah, it's a shame teachers always forget to teach "homophones" and their differences regarding intonation. More generally, it's a shame most teachers (at least here in France) think of accent as a secondary thing. Granted, you can make yourself clear even if your accent is really bad, but still, every language learner should strive for excellence
.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
しゃべる has a nuance of "just chatting", or "just talking for the sake of talking", whereas はなす has more of a nuance of "passing on a message", or "telling something to someone". In reality they are both pretty interchangable, but there are definitely situations where you would use one and not the other.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
robertsan21 said:
Gamba Osaka Enters Australia After an Exhausting 18 Hour Flight
Gamba Osaka arrived in Australia on the 7th for the AFC Champions League match in Melbourne and began their first practice. Because there are no direct flights from Kansai International Airport to Melbourne, Gamba Osaka had to transfer in Hong Kong. The grueling 18 hour flight seemed to take a toll even on midfielder Endo who, being a member of the Japanese National Team, should be used to flying long hours for overseas expeditions. Gamba Osaka is level on points with Chonburi (Thailand), the current lead of the G Group, but they rank 2nd place on goal difference. Defender Yamaguchi said, "I understand the difficulty of away matches, but I want to at least win with a 1 point lead."
RevenantKioku
PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Fuck, I have water all over my screen now.Shouta said:
I hear ぺらぺら all the time. And I live quite inaka. 　:lolI don't know why but I sometimes get comments on how good my らりるれろ pronunciation is.YYZ said:
But I made a conscious effort years ago to make my tongue hit the back of my upper teeth when saying them. Saying it now, it seems I still do that. *shrug*
I haven't been using it much because it's frustrating me in that it does not make it easy to cover all the content. I have no idea why I'm only at 29% for level 10 having done every thing many times and mostly seeing repeats.lupin23rd said:
So yeah, there's something I clearly don't get about the software.
This is probably a stupid question but I'll ask it anyway.
Do japanese people use the horrid japanese windows default font? I started learning Japanese like 6 months ago and Kanjis (Heisig) a month ago. I do OK when they're written in a book because the strokes are well defined but complex kanjis look unreadable to me on a computer screen. Is there any way around it or is it just something you get better at as your knowledge of kanjis gets more exhaustive?
Do japanese people use the horrid japanese windows default font? I started learning Japanese like 6 months ago and Kanjis (Heisig) a month ago. I do OK when they're written in a book because the strokes are well defined but complex kanjis look unreadable to me on a computer screen. Is there any way around it or is it just something you get better at as your knowledge of kanjis gets more exhaustive?
takotchi said:
yeah, stop it with the kanji henkan. I think I think I can count on one hand how many times I've seen the kanji for shaberu used. The hiragana is almost always used.
And I don't think perapera is a hilbilly word. I've heard it both in tokyo and in miyazaki and gunma.
tnw said:
For some reason GAF default also make them appear in italics which is even uglier and more difficult to read. The only workaround I've found is copy/pasting stuff on word, removing italics and increasing the font size to 13. Hardly the handiest thing to do when you want to read a website.
RE: Ra-Ri-Ru-Re-Ro: Don't think of it as "rah-rih-ruh-reh-roh", which many English speakers naturally think (at least EVERY. SINGLE. PERSON. IN. MY. CLASSES.), but think of it more as a really fast r/d that kind of... rolls off the back of your incisors (top front teeth), but really fast. Practice saying it fast, but do it so your tongue kind of hits the back of your teeth, but just briefly... if you know what I mean. It's not terribly hard to get, but at the same time, it's not terribly important, as you'll still be understood even if you don't nail it. It's kind of like the French "R", but reversed.
okno said:
Now that's interesting (because I'm not a native speaker of English, that is). Don't the professors correct them when they do so? Because they really should. If I'm not mistaken, what you said means that the students still tend to put the stress on some of the syllables, which they shouldn't, as there's no such thing as stress in the Japanese language. There's pitch, sure, but that's another thing altogether.
Obviously, you, okno, seem to be very well aware of that fact, but for the sake of helping the beginners in this thread, let it be restated that you shouldn't stress ANY syllable in ANY word in Japanese. For those who are French (like me) or learn it, the same rule applies. The closest thing to stressed syllables you can find in Japanese are the long syllables (ou / おう, ei / えい, etc.). But they're not stressed syllables per se, they're just longer.
tnw said:
What can I say: one of the only advantages we have as French speakers
. We suck so much at English, yet Japanese is a cakewalk. Don't get me wrong though, there are plenty of French Japanese learners that have that atrocious French accent I can't stand. In fact, nearly everyone I know that learns Japanese has a poor accent. Mine could be better, but I'm doing my best. Anyway, at least, we don't pronounce the "t" like a "d" (see your "yuh KOH da" thing), and we don't stress a random syllable here and there.By the way, every time I hear a Japanese voice actor voicing your average American character in an anime, I get the feeling that the syllables he stresses in Japanese aren't the ones you, as native speakers, would stress. Am I correct? For some reason, I find it funny.
In the anime called MAJOR, the main protagonist is playing baseball in America and the english voices are just laughable. They couldn't find a native English speaker in Japan to do the voices? It's not a big deal, but at the same time it doesn't seem like that hard of a thing to do correctly.Kilrogg said:
Oh and that lack of syllable stressing seems confusing and difficult since English pronunciation is based on stressing the proper syllables. I haven't learned to speak yet.
YYZ said:
It may seem confusing, but the next time you watch a JP movie or anime, pay a little more attention to the actors and how they speak. You'll notice it's not like in English where the words are very fragmented and have very clear beginnings and ends (English is a very harsh languages, in terms of dictation), but is more lilting and kind of runs together more. If you're familiar at all with French, it's kind of like that. The French speak with a very soft rhythm, and the Japanese do so similarly, but not quite the same as the French. Japanese tends to almost run together so a sentence almost sounds like a really long word. But even when they're angry, they don't stress the syllables at all, which definitely happens in English.
You'll pick up on it pretty quickly. Just remember that the syllables are all short and sweet, so it's like "ah!", "ee!", "oo!", "eh!", "oh!" almost (in reference to a,i,u,e,o), and not "aah", "eee", "ooh, "eeh", "oooh", knawmean?
tnw said:
Their written and "spoken" punctuations (commas, especially) are weird though. For instance, when you quote someone, followed by, say, "to iimashita", which is like "he said "..."" in English, you often put the comma between "to" and the verb. That's usually how it works in literature.
You'd think you'd then have to pause between those two words, since there's a comma. That would be too logical apparently
. When you pronounce that kind of sentences, you pause right after the quotation.Written punctuation: "Daitôryô wa "..." to, iimashita."
Spoken punctuation: "Daitôryô wa "..." [pause] to iimashita."
Going by spoken Japanese, I find it quite difficult to guess where you should put a comma or not.
@okno: So you're familiar with French then. If you started prior to Japanese, I guess French helped you a great deal with this whole unstressed syllables thing, didn't it?
The one thing that still bothers me is the intonation (and tone, if it's any different). I generally know what the tone is for a regular question, but, reading a text out loud, I sometimes wonder how a Japanese would read it. The fact that my Japanese teacher (who is Japanese) is a woman doesn't help me at all. Unsurprisingly, women don't really speak like men, and I don't want to sound effeminate, so...
RevenantKioku
PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Don't worry, if you progress in your Japanese one day you'll have a friend who will sit you down and say "Okay, I'm going to help you sound less like a woman!"
Kilrogg said:Their written and "spoken" punctuations (commas, especially) are weird though. For instance, when you quote someone, followed by, say, "to iimashita", which is like "he said "..."" in English, you often put the comma between "to" and the verb. That's usually how it works in literature.
You'd think you'd then have to pause between those two words, since there's a comma. That would be too logical apparently
Written punctuation: "Daitôryô wa "..." to, iimashita."
Spoken punctuation: "Daitôryô wa "..." [pause] to iimashita."
..
As far as I'm aware, you wouldn't use a comma there. True they do use commas in a slightly different way. It's usually to break the gigantic run on sentences. Like 'Financial conditions in the first quarter WA, (blah blah blah blah), they increased'.
and as for your spoken 'to' example, lots of people will just speak in sentence fragments, and use the post 'to' to just linger and wanter
'daitoryo wa yarimashita to.......iuuuuuuuuuuuuuu koto deeeeeesu no deeeeeee ma.' etc.
If you're worried about speaking like a woman, watch the news. I'm pretty sure she's not littering her speach with atashi, desu wa, and kashira (although only the first one is truly a feminine word)
RevenantKioku
PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Well, I was not proper 女っぽい but not "manly" either, I guess.Blackace said:
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