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The Future of PC Gaming

R

Razoric

Banned
BIZ: The next version of Windows (Longhorn) is supposed to be more console-like in that it's going to eliminate the need to download drivers and installing games will be easier. What can you tell us about Longhorn as it relates to gaming?

CD: There are many things about console gaming that we can apply to make the Windows game experience better. Install is one area where we're working with game developers and publishers to simplify the overly-complex install process—do you really need to answer all those questions and click on all those buttons to play the game? We have also re-architected the graphics driver model—the Longhorn Display Driver Model will make the process much more stable and trouble free for gamers. Gaming is a key pillar of the consumer Longhorn experience, and we're excited about what the future holds.

BIZ: How do you think the fact that Longhorn is 64-bit might impact the future of PC gaming?

CD: We're beginning to see support for 64-bit in games, with more detail or longer draw distances, but this is just the start. By the Longhorn timeframe, many mainstream computers will be 64-bit, and you'll really see games take advantage of the new technology. As with all new technology, we fully expect game developers will be on forefront of adopting 64-bit.

BIZ: We've heard about a communications tool included in Longhorn called Athens that will streamline voice, text, and video chatting. Does MS have any plans to work with game developers to perhaps incorporate Athens and its features into gaming?

CD: We have nothing to announce at this time, but we're constantly working with game developers to help them incorporate the latest Windows features in their games where appropriate.

BIZ: Seeing as how DirectX and XNA are important to both Windows and the Xbox and upcoming Xbox 360, what kinds of interesting crossovers can we expect between the Xbox and the PC?

CD: With XNA, which incorporates both DirectX and the Xbox/Xbox 360 Development Kits, we're making the tools to make it easier to make games for Microsoft's gaming platforms. We're looking to the game development community to surprise gamers with new ideas of what they can do with these tools—and of course, we're helping developers build games that can take advantage of the huge power of the next generation of hardware, both Xbox 360 and Longhorn.

BIZ: XNA, like DirectX, seems to be a step towards a standardized means of developing games for Windows. What can you tell us about this?

CD: Both sets of tools are aimed at making developer's lives easier, so they can focus on making the games detailed and exciting. By combining techniques, hopefully we'll get better games in the long run as well as allowing not only programmers but artists and other members of the game dev teams to leverage their skills across multiple platforms.

BIZ: Nowadays all the focus seems to be on console gaming, especially with the next-gen systems fast approaching. What strategies does MS have in mind to further encourage PC game development?

CD: Windows gaming is kind of the Energizer bunny of gaming platforms—it just keeps going and going. And it keeps on innovating. Windows is where new and innovative technology happens first, and it's where new and exciting game genres show up first. Windows is still the place where "garage developers" can develop a game (just look at Crytek and "Far Cry.") Microsoft is encouraging development for Windows with things like XNA, which is making life easier for developers. With Longhorn, we're looking at how we can eliminate pain points for consumers, while opening up other genres through things like Microsoft's universal gaming controller standard, which will give gamers more choices about how to play games on Windows.

BIZ: The ATI vs. Nvidia battle seems to be heating up again since the PS3 will incorporate NVIDIA's RSX chip and Xbox 360 will use ATI's Xenos chip. Having worked at NVIDIA you probably have a unique perspective on this. What's your take on the respective technologies from these graphic chipset makers?

CD: The competition between ATI and NVIDIA highlights one of the key benefits of Windows. The hardware does not stay the same for the next 5-6 years—you can always take advantage of the latest and greatest technology no matter who the manufacturer is. And don't forget to add the fact that the technologies going into the new console systems migrate from the Windows platform—for example NVIDIA's recently announced 7800 line of cards will be similar to the RSX chip, and we'll see what ATI comes up with next.

BIZ: Finally, is there anything you'd like to add that we perhaps didn't cover?

CD: We're really excited about the present and future for Windows gaming—Battlefield 2 just released, and it's amazing. There are many other great games coming this holiday season. At the same time, we're seeing tremendous growth for online revenue—from the two million people paying for World of Warcraft, and other MMOs, to services like Valve's Steam, to downloadable casual games, to the many new direct download services. In the next few years, you could easily see online revenue eclipse retail sales, providing amazing business opportunities on the Windows platform. But didn't you want to hear about the toga party and the alien spaceship?
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http://biz.gamedaily.com/features.asp?article_id=9950&filter=interview

Sounds really good for PC gaming.

On huge worry is PC gaming will just get even more console ports and not many titles that actually use PC's (keyboard, mouse, online, modability, etc) to their full extent.
 
Cool. I've been hearing about Longhorn being tooled for gaming. Glad to see this is coming to fruition.

Oh, and Starcraft 2 is going to help be the spear head to help propell PC gaming over console gaming once more! :)
 
Nice to make it easier but to me it's not the main problem of PC gaming. The problem is the cost and the tendency to release a fucking new graphic card each five minutes.
I just want to play my game perfectly like they are made without the whole thing costing me an arm. Console fo like i guess.
 
Wyzdom said:
Nice to make it easier but to me it's not the main problem of PC gaming. The problem is the cost and the tendency to release a fucking new graphic card each five minutes.
I just want to play my game perfectly like they are made without the whole thing costing me an arm. Console fo like i guess.
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Which requires a top of the line pc so you can adjust the game exactly to your liking.

And btw where is longhorn? Cant come soon enough. Biggest problem with XP was thats its so much better and more stable than win98/me so they have to come up with too much to put in Longhorn thus delaying the whole thing.
 
jakershaker said:
Which requires a top of the line pc so you can adjust the game exactly to your liking.
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Exactly. Since i don't have George Bush's salary, i can't play PC games to my likings.
 
Wyzdom said:
Exactly. Since i don't have George Bush's salary, i can't play PC games to my likings.
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Actually I think this problem will be helped as well. Once they get more stuff standardized (ala XNA, direct X, longhorn, etc) devs will be able to make better engines that scale to your computers specs.
 
Wyzdom said:
Exactly. Since i don't have George Bush's salary, i can't play PC games to my likings.
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All you need is a job really, and stay away from minimum wage :D

New computer every 3-4 years and sometimes a new gfxcard inbetween keeps you top of the line. And considering that the console lifecycle is about 5 years and with those you're stuck with the hardware and no way of upgrading it PCs doesn't seem so bad.

The new 7800 cards does seem a little bit pricey though.
 
The future of PC gaming? I hope more developers port stuff to Linux. Doom 3... Unreal Tournament 2004... Neverwinter Nights.. and some more have been ported. The future for Linux users is looking bright. More and more developers are going to port stuff. :)
 
Razoric said:
Actually I think this problem will be helped as well. Once they get more stuff standardized (ala XNA, direct X, longhorn, etc) devs will be able to make better engines that scale to your computers specs.
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Sure but i still won't be playing the best version of the game until i have that high-end hardware. The games will work better on more different hardware settings but it does not touch the problem i have with PC gaming. Per example on a console, we both pay the same price for the game and we have the same quality. That's what i am talking about.

I know this whole thing may sound weird since it means i'm gonna be happy with less good graphics on a console version of X game but it fact it's because my problem isn't exactly about the graphic but making my every purchase worth a maximum.
 
Ruzbeh said:
The future of PC gaming? I hope more developers port stuff to Linux. Doom 3... Unreal Tournament 2004... Neverwinter Nights.. and some more have been ported. The future for Linux users is looking bright. More and more developers are going to port stuff. :)
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Bah no Linux derailing here, this thread is about Longhorn.

Come back when normal people can use Linux.
 
Wyzdom said:
Sure but i still won't be playing the best version of the game until i have that high-end hardware. The games will work better on more different hardware settings but it does not touch the problem i have with PC gaming. Per example on a console, we both pay the same price for the game and we have the same quality. That's what i am talking about.

I know this whole thing may sound weird since it means i'm gonna be happy with less good graphics on a console version of X game but it fact it's because my problem isn't exactly about the graphic but making my every purchase worth a maximum.
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Eh things like that will never go away with PC gaming.
 
Someone explain to me how 64-bit computing will make the slightest difference in gaming, beyond giving the ability to address more then 4GB of memory. Double-precision floating points...? Still pretty easy with 32-bit.
 
jakershaker said:
All you need is a job really, and stay away from minimum wage :D

New computer every 3-4 years and sometimes a new gfxcard inbetween keeps you top of the line. And considering that the console lifecycle is about 5 years and with those you're stuck with the hardware and no way of upgrading it PCs doesn't seem so bad.

The new 7800 cards does seem a little bit pricey though.
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Just for fun.... during the last 5 years, calculate with me how much you invested in your PC. I'm curious. I'll do the same with my PS2. (i'll go in $Can)

PS2 - 349$, Extra controller - 39$, Memory cards - 49$, Internet modem 69$ (in fact it did cost me only 20$ because i bought it from a friend but i want to stay with more true numbers). Total = 506$

My library consist of 35 games. Since i have just as much bargain bin games as new ones, let's say the average cost is 40$. Total = 1400$

Let's put the hardware cost in the games so i get i much i pay to play a game on my PS2.
506 / 40 = 13$. My game cost is in fact 53$

Now let's say i put 20 hours into a game (average). My gaming cost me 2.50$ an hour.

What about the cost of begin a PC gamer (and i mean here with the best equipment)
 
I'm glad to hear about drivers. A friend of mine has a brand new computer that can't play Battlefield 2, because he screwed up his drivers.
 
Wyzdom said:
Just for fun.... during the last 5 years, calculate with me how much you invested in your PC. I'm curious. I'll do the same with my PS2. (i'll go in $Can)

PS2 - 349$, Extra controller - 39$, Memory cards - 49$, Internet modem 69$ (in fact it did cost me only 20$ because i bought it from a friend but i want to stay with more true numbers). Total = 506$

My library consist of 35 games. Since i have just as much bargain bin games as new ones, let's say the average cost is 40$. Total = 1400$

Let's put the hardware cost in the games so i get i much i pay to play a game on my PS2.
506 / 40 = 13$. My game cost is in fact 53$

Now let's say i put 20 hours into a game (average). My gaming cost me 2.50$ an hour.

What about the cost of begin a PC gamer (and i mean here with the best equipment)
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PC gaming is way more expensive but you can't really call Ps2 gaming 'perfect' so it doesn't apply. If you just have to match console gfx(not even considering that you can't change anything in console games) you wouldn't need an expensive computer and you wouldn't need to buy better hardware and with PC games being cheaper I would guess that the costs are much closer than when, as we were, 'perfect gaming' is discussed.

But as it stands now anyway there are games which are far superior on the PC platform, strategy & fps i.e, and there are games which really should be played on consoles, adventure & 3rd person action & racing i.e. The big question then is when pc's and consoles will merge so you only have one machine which handles everything from movies to internet to games. Then would be a far better time to discuss which hardware roadmap to follow. I would mostly like to see a console like plan but in which highend users were given the option to upgrade the machines for some better resolution and effects or whatever. Like all dvd players play movies but if you pay a little extra you can see digital images, listen to mp3s and watch divx movies too.
 
Wyzdom said:
Just for fun.... during the last 5 years, calculate with me how much you invested in your PC. I'm curious. I'll do the same with my PS2. (i'll go in $Can)
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Your comments in this thread have been silly. You have a lot of misconceptions about PC gaming (or you're being disingenuous). A top of the line PC is not required to be a PC gamer. Nor are constant updates to the latest gee-whiz graphics card.

I'll play your game though. Keep in mind that my current PC was assembled three years ago. The PC I had before that was bought in 1998, so I'm not including its original purchase price into these calculations. All prices approximate and US dollars:

My current PC put together by me exactly three years ago (1.6GHz P4, 512MB RAM, 40GB hard drive, 16X DVD, Soundblaster Live, 64MB Geforce 4200): $1300

The only things I carried forward from my old machine to this one were mouse/keyboard, a printer, and a 19" monitor (but hey, you didn't include the price of your TV in your calculations did you?)

Upgrades over the past three years (CD burner, Soundblaster Audigy 2, 5.1 speakers, and a 128MB Radeon 9700 Pro): $500

Games over the past five years, about 20 with an average price of $20 (and I'm being very generous with that $20 figure, PC games get cheap fast): $400

MMO fees (since MMOs have taken a lot of my play time over the past five years, this figure is for about 30 months at $15 a month since I play MMOs off and on): $450

Total: $2650. Average game cost: $132.50

OMG, console gaming is so much better, look how expensive that is! But wait, there's more...

Average time spent per game: this is the kicker. Thanks to mods (and because the types of games I play on PC are much more involved than console games) the average time I will spend with a PC game is much, much higher than a console game. I'm going to say 100 hours per game, which is probably a low-ball estimate given the amount of time I know I have sunk into some games (several hundred hours each into Warcraft III, Alpha Centauri, Civ III, and Unreal Tournament 2004, several hundred hours combined into Baldurs Gate I & II). MMOs really skew this figure. I don't know exactly how much time I put into Ultima Online and Asheron's Call, but I played WoW for over 200 hours and currently am at over 1400 hours in FFXI.

So my PC gaming cost me $1.33 an hour. Gee, that doesn't look so bad does it? But I didn't include the cost of the machine I had the first two years of this five year span! Yeah, but I also didn't account for the fact that my PC is not just a game machine. What about the value of all the other things I can do with my PC?
 
PC Gaijin said:
Your comments in this thread have been silly. You have a lot of misconceptions about PC gaming (or you're being disingenuous). A top of the line PC is not required to be a PC gamer. Nor are constant updates to the latest gee-whiz graphics card.

I'll play your game though. Keep in mind that my current PC was assembled three years ago. The PC I had before that was bought in 1998, so I'm not including its original purchase price into these calculations. All prices approximate and US dollars:

My current PC put together by me exactly three years ago (1.6GHz P4, 512MB RAM, 40GB hard drive, 16X DVD, Soundblaster Live, 64MB Geforce 4200): $1300

The only things I carried forward from my old machine to this one were mouse/keyboard, a printer, and a 19" monitor (but hey, you didn't include the price of your TV in your calculations did you?)

Upgrades over the past three years (CD burner, Soundblaster Audigy 2, 5.1 speakers, and a 128MB Radeon 9700 Pro): $500

Games over the past five years, about 20 with an average price of $20 (and I'm being very generous with that $20 figure, PC games get cheap fast): $400

MMO fees (since MMOs have taken a lot of my play time over the past five years, this figure is for about 30 months at $15 a month since I play MMOs off and on): $450

Total: $2650. Average game cost: $132.50

OMG, console gaming is so much better, look how expensive that is! But wait, there's more...

Average time spent per game: this is the kicker. Thanks to mods (and because the types of games I play on PC are much more involved than console games) the average time I will spend with a PC game is much, much higher than a console game. I'm going to say 100 hours per game, which is probably a low-ball estimate given the amount of time I know I have sunk into some games (several hundred hours each into Warcraft III, Alpha Centauri, Civ III, and Unreal Tournament 2004, several hundred hours combined into Baldurs Gate I & II). MMOs really skew this figure. I don't know exactly how much time I put into Ultima Online and Asheron's Call, but I played WoW for over 200 hours and currently am at over 1400 hours in FFXI.

So my PC gaming cost me $1.33 an hour. Gee, that doesn't look so bad does it? But I didn't include the cost of the machine I had the first two years of this five year span! Yeah, but I also didn't account for the fact that my PC is not just a game machine. What about the value of all the other things I can do with my PC?
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I agree it's impossible to really compare PC to consoles but since you made an attempt you have some issues with this. You're being "generous" at 20 average game is BS since most new PC games are priced even with console games and drop in price relatively close to each other. If you want to throw in old games like Warcraft III or Baldurs gate that would be fine but keep in mind the above console numbers would change taking into consideration Greatest Hits and Players choice titles at 20 bucks also. On top of that you listed WoW and FFXI which aren't 20 bucks. And on that note you included them as your "playtime" but left out monthly fees.

Good point about PC's used for other stuff though and thats really the point of them being impossible to compare. Though with the direction consoles seem to be taking with Xbox 360 that may be changing too.
 
CD: There are many things about console gaming that we can apply to make the Windows game experience better. Install is one area where we're working with game developers and publishers to simplify the overly-complex install process—do you really need to answer all those questions and click on all those buttons to play the game? We have also re-architected the graphics driver model—the Longhorn Display Driver Model will make the process much more stable and trouble free for gamers. Gaming is a key pillar of the consumer Longhorn experience, and we're excited about what the future holds.
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I wonder what they mean about the easy install stuff? Will games come in some new pre-installed type of format, that only requires basic user configuration, or will this just be the same old installation wizard automaticly choosing stuff for me which would be pretty bad?
 
Well, I hope they're finally smart enough to include something that, when you launch a game, shuts off all their other useless nonsense processes that hog resources and devotes your system to nothing but the game. And when you close the game out, then all the other little junk can come back on. Sort of like a game mode if you will. It baffles me why it hadn't been done for XP.
 
Yeah, I always wondered about some type of dedicated gaming mode, like making the directx api independant of windows. I'd love to see something like that.
 
Ponn01 said:
I agree it's impossible to really compare PC to consoles but since you made an attempt you have some issues with this. You're being "generous" at 20 average game is BS since most new PC games are priced even with console games and drop in price relatively close to each other. If you want to throw in old games like Warcraft III or Baldurs gate that would be fine but keep in mind the above console numbers would change taking into consideration Greatest Hits and Players choice titles at 20 bucks also. On top of that you listed WoW and FFXI which aren't 20 bucks. And on that note you included them as your "playtime" but left out monthly fees.
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Do you understand what average means? Of course some of the games I bought were more than $20, but even more were less than $20 (or less than $10). PC games get cheaper faster than console games do, and it's easier (and more common) to find sub-$20 and sub-$10 PC games than console games. For reference, the only games I paid $50 for were WoW and FFXI. I paid $40 for UT2004 when it came out (used a coupon). Every other PC game I've bought in the past five years has been $20 or less. I usually don't buy games right at release (I like to stay a year or two behind) so I don't pay full price. This goes for console games too. If you're paying $40 or $50 for PC games that are not new releases you need to try shopping a little more carefully. Wyzdom included bargain bin games in his estimation as well, if it will make you happy I'll use his figure (which is in Canadian dollars btw, so it's around $32 USD). Total price per game: $144.50. Average dollar amount per hour of gaming: $1.45. Still cheaper than Wyzdom's estimate, and my point that this whole comparison is silly still stands.

And I included the fees for MMOs:

PC Gaijin said:
MMO fees (since MMOs have taken a lot of my play time over the past five years, this figure is for about 30 months at $15 a month since I play MMOs off and on): $450
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Reading is fun-damental! I don't play MMOs all the time, thus why I included fees for about half of the past five years. Going into 2000 I was still playing UO for a couple of months, I played WoW for a month, Asheron's Call for a couple months, and FFXI for about a year altogether). I only play (and thus pay for) one MMO at a time, so I was being generous with the 30 month figure.
 
PC Gaijin said:
Your comments in this thread have been silly. You have a lot of misconceptions about PC gaming (or you're being disingenuous). A top of the line PC is not required to be a PC gamer. Nor are constant updates to the latest gee-whiz graphics card.?
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Well, i'm talking about MY problem with PC gaming. Read my post before (#11). I'm not sure you really get my point. It's about getting the most out of my game more than getting the best looking games.

PC Gaijin said:
So my PC gaming cost me $1.33 an hour. Gee, that doesn't look so bad does it? But I didn't include the cost of the machine I had the first two years of this five year span! Yeah, but I also didn't account for the fact that my PC is not just a game machine. What about the value of all the other things I can do with my PC?
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I'm off course not counting the other things i'm doing with my PC. What interested me in my little count is the cost of my gaming, that's all. And if your calculation is right, your gaming cost you a reasonable price that even i would pay for. To have an even nicer comparison of cost, i should take my numbers but with same amount of hours as you. I think i would win back the cheapass crown ;)
 
Teknopathetic said:
You still didn't say how much you spent on a TV, Wyzdom.
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Actually i didn't include TV cost. I could also include many others too. What about if i use a sound system? What about the food and all the beer that those games made me eat/drink? :D

Seriously, i didn't include the TV cost and Gaijin didn't include his monitor. The comparison stands.
 
"Actually i didn't include TV cost. I could also include many others too. What about if i use a sound system? What about the food and all the beer that those games made me eat/drink?

Seriously, i didn't include the TV cost and Gaijin didn't include his monitor. The comparison stands."

He also included the price of his speakers, sound card, etc. I'd think adding in the price of a home theater is justified. Also, if you bought a TV in the past generation, I'd say it should still be included as he didn't include his monitor because it's something he already had before buying his new machine.

Edit: another funny thing is that you seem to be comparing that console gaming is cheaper than PC gaming, yet you only include the cost + library of one console. Do you only own one?
 
Teknopathetic said:
"Actually i didn't include TV cost. I could also include many others too. What about if i use a sound system? What about the food and all the beer that those games made me eat/drink?

Seriously, i didn't include the TV cost and Gaijin didn't include his monitor. The comparison stands."

He also included the price of his speakers, sound card, etc. I'd think adding in the price of a home theater is justified. Also, if you bought a TV in the past generation, I'd say it should still be included as he didn't include his monitor because it's something he already had before buying his new machine.
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Like i said, we could begin including alot of things. I'm trying to stay direct as possible.
As for my TV, it's an Hitachi ultra black 22 inch that i bought in 1992 or 1993. I guess this TV has been worth my money alot.
 
Teknopathetic said:
Edit: another funny thing is that you seem to be comparing that console gaming is cheaper than PC gaming, yet you only include the cost + library of one console. Do you only own one?
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I only calculated with my PS2 to give me an idea. It's not about to wich extent i can spend money but more about how much it cost me to play hourly. I doubt that counting my other consoles would change hte overall value of my gaming much. (though i'm sure it's my PS2 that cost me the less since i have alot less games on my Gamecube)
 
Can you get progressive scan or HD signals on that TV? (I know the answer already, rhetorical) I don't think you're getting the maximum out of your games with that TV.

"It's not about to wich extent i can spend money but more about how much it cost me to play hourly. "

Someone else brought up a great point that the longevity of PC games is generally, much, much longer than console games.
 
i personally think a game on a windows PC should be like playing a console title.

insert the game, and play (after a popup inquiring if the user would like to launch the title)
 
I read all your posts Wyzdom, and I saw your other point about basically wanting to "make sure you get the same experience everyone else does" for the money you put into gaming. That's fine, although it strikes me as a somewhat strange way of looking at things (gaming communism? ;P) Anway, you could say that on the PC side you get the same experience as everyone else who puts in the same amount of money (i.e. other people spending the same amount on hardware should be able to get about the same level of experience as you). Someone else may spend a fortune on their rig and get nicer graphics, but hey you could spend money too and get the same level if you wanted to.

Sorry if I sounded a little harsh in my responses, but the gripe that "PC gaming is so expensive" is one of my pet peeves. Yes, the hardware is more expensive, but there are other factors that balance out the cost. Namely, cheaper game prices and especially much longer play times with PC games (at least in my experience). You say that if you stretched out your average playtime to a hundred hours per game you could get a lower price per hour spent gaming. Of course. However, my point with the playtime is that advantages that PC games hold over console games (mods, online play, and deeper/more involved play mechanics) is one of the things that helps balance the higher cost of hardware (to me). Your experience may be different, but it's an exceptionally rare console game that I will play for over a hundred hours (usually an RPG of some sort, but even those are rare). And this isn't because I don't buy and play console games; I play a lot of console games, but most just don't have the longevity to keep me playing them for dozens or hundreds of hours like PC games do.
 
Teknopathetic said:
Can you get progressive scan or HD signals on that TV? (I know the answer already, rhetorical) I don't think you're getting the maximum out of your games with that TV.

"It's not about to wich extent i can spend money but more about how much it cost me to play hourly. "

Someone else brought up a great point that the longevity of PC games is generally, much, much longer than console games.
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You could get a better sound quality for your PC games if you had a better sound system. In fact, your game is the same, nothing changed in the game, only YOUR output device.
Same goes for my old TV, even if it does not display pro scan, my game didn't "changed" and it's the same as yours. It's not like when i don't have X hardware and i have to put my game at low textures, low effects, etc.

About the longevity, it can make your gaming worth it of course. But my little study to be more accurate, we would have to use the same amount of hours of playing to really get our cost. Otherwise we could debate this forever. Maybe i would have the same games as you but put less hours into it than you. The you play and the more you appreciate what you buy, the more your money is fact having "value".
So it's not perfect science, it's my cost vs gaijin's or whatever other person. Maybe your gaming is cheaper than mine you being a PC gamer.
 
"You could get a better sound quality for your PC games if you had a better sound system. In fact, your game is the same, nothing changed in the game, only YOUR output device.
Same goes for my old TV, even if it does not display pro scan, my game didn't "changed" and it's the same as yours. It's not like when i don't have X hardware and i have to put my game at low textures, low effects, etc."

I'd say a lower resolution (in the case of HD screens) or interlaced signals is on par with lowered textures or models. Your game doesn't *change* either way, if you want to put it like that. Your game doesn't look the same as someone's with HD/Progressive just as it doesn't look the same when someone has higher quality models/textures.
 
:lol
PC Gaijin said:
I read all your posts Wyzdom, and I saw your other point about basically wanting to "make sure you get the same experience everyone else does" for the money you put into gaming. That's fine, although it strikes me as a somewhat strange way of looking at things (gaming communism? ;P) Anway, you could say that on the PC side you get the same experience as everyone else who puts in the same amount of money (i.e. other people spending the same amount on hardware should be able to get about the same level of experience as you). Someone else may spend a fortune on their rig and get nicer graphics, but hey you could spend money too and get the same level if you wanted to.

Sorry if I sounded a little harsh in my responses, but the gripe that "PC gaming is so expensive" is one of my pet peeves. Yes, the hardware is more expensive, but there are other factors that balance out the cost. Namely, cheaper game prices and especially much longer play times with PC games (at least in my experience). You say that if you stretched out your average playtime to a hundred hours per game you could get a lower price per hour spent gaming. Of course. However, my point with the playtime is that advantages that PC games hold over console games (mods, online play, and deeper/more involved play mechanics) is one of the things that helps balance the higher cost of hardware (to me). Your experience may be different, but it's an exceptionally rare console game that I will play for over a hundred hours (usually an RPG of some sort, but even those are rare). And this isn't because I don't buy and play console games; I play a lot of console games, but most just don't have the longevity to keep me playing them for dozens or hundreds of hours like PC games do.
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Wich all comes down to this being a personal thing (isn't it what is was since the beginning?) ;)

PC gaming is expensive for ME and i guess it's easier to spend more money in PC gaming. I mean, for your PC gaming to be "cheap", you need to copy shit and play long hours. This is why this whole story is at its basis, a personal thing. I think there's never a PC game i play for hundred of hours. I'm not into modding and all, etc.

MAYBE OUR DISCUTION IS IN FACT USELESS? :lol :lol (but it was fun!)
 
Fixed2BeBroken said:
so in essence....PC gaming > your face and Wyzdom

and thats the conclusion.
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Actually nothing has changed, PC gaming is more expensive for me than console gaming.
And i'm sure it is for many people. General console users must spend pretty much the same amount of money but i doubt the casual PC gamers spend similar amounts of money. There are those dude that will be a little more at ease and actually buy that new graphic card and another gamer (that is just as casual and spending the same hours of play) wich spend a shitload less money because he's not buying the graphic card and he doesn't care playing in lower settings.
 
Install is one area where we're working with game developers and publishers to simplify the overly-complex install process—do you really need to answer all those questions and click on all those buttons to play the game?
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YES. Yes, I do. I do not install games to Program files, but I install programs there (can not change the system path).
 
Teknopathetic said:
Yup, you get backed into a corner (of a friendly discussion that is), and apparently you're reduced to just spouting BS.
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I didn't know that was hard to understand. I say that console gaming is cheaper for me than PC gaming (and prolly many other people too). It's MY problem with PC gaming, you may not have it. Gaijin's Pc gaming is pretty cheap. His hourly cost is even lower than mine. I don't see what's BS in our little comparison. Another thing i don't like is the feel that my hardware that i buy is not worth all my pennies because it's replaced so fast that nobody took advantage of it. My Ps2 hardware per example is prolly being used more to it's full capacity than pretty much any PC graphic card. Because of the nature of the industry, console games are generally (needs to be) more optimised.
You may not value money as i do and you can also keep your boring comments for you. I'm not being rude to anyone or laughing at anyone in this thread. I'm only talking, had a nice discution with Gaijin, noticed he had good points and also a valid opinion that i can understand. But you, you go down to a personal level that i don't like.
You shouldn't bother posting really. I won't bother answering anything from you starting now that's for sure. It's already anal enough here.
 
hobbitx said:
Yeah, I always wondered about some type of dedicated gaming mode, like making the directx api independant of windows. I'd love to see something like that.
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Well that might be a problem if you want to use another VOIP program like Teamspeak or Ventrilo. (i'm assuming just one program and nothing else is what you meant)

That said, I would like an option to have just minimal stuff installed...used to have that option back with windows 95. :\
 
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