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[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

In an interview at last week's Game Developers Conference in San Francisco, the developers behind indie sensations Slay the Spire and Darkest Dungeon said that the deal some small developers have come to rely on for funding in recent years—like Epic Game Store exclusives and Xbox Game Pass—are no longer what they once were.

"I talked to at least five small teams, like 35 [members] and under, during GDC, and they're like: Cuts, cuts, cuts, funding canceled, talks that were going on for a year, canceled," said Casey Yano, the co-founder of Slay the Spire studio Mega Crit. "It sounds like it's shit. We're definitely very privileged to be able to self-fund. [Otherwise] I'd be very, very, very scared right now."

Slay the Spire launched to slow sales in Steam early access before eventually becoming a deckbuilding juggernaut. Darkest Dungeon was likewise a Steam early access success; both games are available on PC Game Pass, though DD director Chris Bourassa said that Microsoft's deals for getting games on Game Pass have "come down in scope" since the subscription service began.

"Way down," Yano added.

"So has Epic," Bourassa said. "The Gold Rush is over. I come from the Northwest Territories. The town I'm from was built on gold, and then they found diamonds further north. Maybe another paradigm shift is waiting for us, but I definitely think the scale of the deals I'm hearing about is significantly dimishese from the big swinging days. Certainly we got our Epic [deal] at the right time."

Darkest Dungeon developer Red Hook Studios made the somewhat controversial choice to launch the sequel in early access as an Epic exclusive. While those exclusives haven't been popular with players, they've allowed some indie developers to "break even" on their games even before release, a safety net that's hard to pass up when a game's success can make or break a small studio.

To help give the indie scene a boost, Red Hook and Mega Crit have teamed up with Dead Cells DLC studio Evil Empire to put on a "Triple-I" showcase on April 10, alongside other developers including Re-Logic, poncle and more.

'The gold rush is over:' Slay the Spire and Darkest Dungeon devs say that big Game Pass and Epic exclusive deals have dried up for indie devs

It's not easy to get funding for a new game right now.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[Gaiff]

Keep y’all feet on Phil’s neck.

 

[semiconscious]

wow! never saw this comin'...

 

[IAmRei]

I dont know, i never like gp idea since i heard years ago.

 

[Kacho]

Good. The sooner Game Pass dies the better and less EGS exclusives means the PC market is healing.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Was always gonna happen once MS bought Zenimax and ABK. They have the studios and IP they need now, they don't need to keep funding indies for content in their service.

Makes the indie devs who were cheering on the ABK acquisition look really bad in retrospect, but they should've seen this coming.

 

[tmlDan]

we're finally getting to a point where everyone will hate Phil, its glorious cause he deserved it years ago.

 

[pqueue]

what arrogant trash those developers are, as if they are OWED whatever imaginary monetary support they think they should get.

no one is forcing them to take any deal with Epic or MS.

Seems like the fault is with themselves and their games. If the games cannot stand and sell on their own without being financially supplemented by a third-party game service, maybe they should not be making games in the first place.

 

[jm89]

How many of those indies also tripped over themselves to support the abk acquistion? Writing to the CMA like a bunch of weasels.

Looking pretty ish right abot now as MS leaves your ass out in the cold.

 

[Bernoulli]

Indies disconnected from the server

 

[Thief1987]

Well it's understandable as subscription services didn't even remotely close to what Spencer and shills dreamed of

 

[Flabagast]

Gamepass was all along a massive illusion, all those that believed in it ended up hurt one way or the other

 

[Holammer]

On a positive note, we're gonna see less Gamepass shilling on GAF.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

How many of those indies also tripped over themselves to support the abk acquistion? Writing to the CMA like a bunch of weasels.

Looking pretty ish right abot now as MS leaves your ass out in the cold.

Facts. Not all indies were doing that, but the ones who were?

 

[rickybooby87]

MILD SHOCK.

I mean, the "free" money doesn't last forever, does it? At some point, you got to tighten the belt and start making the bean counters happy.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

this is where the statement of the Xbox deemphasizing Game Pass comes from.
but you know, Jez and Colt (Big Brain analysts and commentators) just loled.

 

[NickFire]

If they hang on until the next generation of consoles they may have a couple of good years when it first begins. I'm guessing that being able to slap a next gen label on a brand new indie game is more valuable when a new console has less software.

 

[amigastar]

I think people should give Phil a little rest, i personally enjoy my games being day 1 on GP or even PC. IDK.

 

[LordCBH]

I think almost everyone saw it coming. Even the shills. Though the shills won’t admit it.

 

[ComputerBlue]

I don’t think the idea of a subscription service is bad when it’s for older games where sales have already dried up, but new releases are just going to cause harm.

 

[Kacho]

On a positive note, we're gonna see less Gamepass shilling on GAF.

Don't give me hope

 

[jm89]

I don’t think the idea of a subscription service is bad when it’s for older games where sales have already dried up, but new releases are just going to cause harm.

I'm not completley against it either. Could also be good for games that end up flopping and give some revenue to the devs.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Easy solution for funding.

Like every other industry, walk into a bank and apply for a business loan.

 

[Clear]

No surprise whatsoever. Their calculation was based on continued massive growth, and its simply not there.

It was always going to end up like this because gaming has grown through becoming more diversified whilst the sub-sectors of interest within it have remained largely plateaud.

The "blue ocean" vision pursued by MS particularly was always doomed to failure because the gaming world is more a collection of archipelogos connected by narrow bridges where only a few people cross.

The upshot was always going to be the destruction of value through perceptually making product more disposable and transient, an effect that was guaranteed to manifest "from the ground up" in the sense that smaller producers would bear the impact first.

Its something that I suspect may have even been planned in to a degree, given what MS seem to be aiming for is owning a tentpole product in every category and binding them together under a unifying brand/distribution umbrella.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I think people should give Phil a little rest, i personally enjoy my games being day 1 on GP or even PC. IDK.

I'm actually not ragging on Phil here at all, personally. This probably isn't even his decision.

If anything I'm ragging on the indies who were cheering on the acquisition thinking they would somehow have a better change for GP deals if MS got ABK, when everyone else was telling them opposite would happen. They welcomed their own irrelevance (to getting service deals).

Easy solution for funding.

Like every other industry, walk into a bank and apply for a business loan.

But the loans have to be paid back. MS were giving indies free cash to fund the games that didn't have to be paid back.

Obviously they preferred the GP deals vs. going for business loans.

 

[DrFigs]

man that's crazy. who could've seen this coming

 

[Pejo]

Easy solution for funding.

Like every other industry, walk into a bank and apply for a business loan.

Problem is that game devs, for some reason, are unilaterally fucking terrible at planning, setting realistic goals, and budgeting. I will always look at Shenmue 3 as the penultimate "what the fuck are you doing?" game.

 

[Crayon]

It's sad that so many of these indie games are so good. There are too many of them, though. I'd call the oncoming train more of a correction than a crash.

 

[Horseganador]

Users accustomed to not paying for games and companies that do not want to pay now to put them in the current service (GP, Epic, etc...) what many of us have been saying for years, that this had no future.

 

[Magic Carpet]

That means less and less indy games.
Sequels and remakes and microtransactions are what gamers are willing to pay for.

 

[Sushi_Combo]

what arrogant trash those developers are, as if they are OWED whatever imaginary monetary support they think they should get.

no one is forcing them to take any deal with Epic or MS.

Seems like the fault is with themselves and their games. If the games cannot stand and sell on their own without being financially supplemented by a third-party game service, maybe they should not be making games in the first place.

That's true. They never should have bet on GP to sustain their finances.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

That means less and less indy games.
Sequels and remakes and microtransactions are what gamers are willing to pay for.

I hope that's not what it means, because a lot of the innovative game design ideas are going to come from indie and small/mid-scale AA games, not the AAA sequels and remakes (unless it's a remake of an unconventional game...and those almost never get remakes sadly).

Hopefully publishers like Annapurna, Devolver etc. pick these studios up. Hell, Sony need some 1P indies and AA titles in their pipeline and they have suitable legacy IP that could be leveraged with them. So they should consider picking some of these devs up or at least partner with them on new titles for PlayStation.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Not surprising when you see all the layoffs happening everywhere. The industry exploded because of COVID and everyone is settling back in. The companies running these sub services don’t need to offer as many deals and don’t want to offer as much money.

 

[bender]

Anecdotal sure, but Game Pass, and to a lesser extent PS+, really altered my purchasing habits for indie games. Microsoft did a really good job of securing tons of high profile indie games for day one release on Game Pass. So much so that if I was interested in an Indie game, more often than not, it was on the service and if it wasn't, I just told myself to be patient as they were bound to show up sooner or later. I'm curious what the long term effects will be, if any.

The ebb and flow of indie game support from the big three since the PS3/360/Wii ear has to be maddening. Further, with the amount of games released daily and how quickly knock-offs can be turned around, being in that space must be terrifying from a discovery perspective alone.

 

[adamsapple]

On a positive note, we're gonna see less Gamepass shilling on GAF.

Nah, gonna take a lot more for us to not praise the greatest deal in gaming.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

is this news?

 

[Ozriel]

I'm actually not ragging on Phil here at all, personally. This probably isn't even his decision.

If anything I'm ragging on the indies who were cheering on the acquisition thinking they would somehow have a better change for GP deals if MS got ABK, when everyone else was telling them opposite would happen. They welcomed their own irrelevance (to getting service deals).

Didn’t you people always claim GP devalued games and hurt sales?
Why’s it now a negative for indie devs as MS focuses more on their content pipeline and ID@Xbox for GP?

wow! never saw this comin'...

Despite MS repeatedly saying their long term aim was to beef up first party and published efforts for GP?

 

[Kittehkraken]

we're finally getting to a point where everyone will hate Phil, its glorious cause he deserved it years ago.

He was hated years ago. It wasn't until he started throwing around billions that people started liking him.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Didn’t you people always claim GP devalued games and hurt sales?
Why’s it now a negative for indie devs as MS focuses more on their content pipeline and ID@Xbox for GP?

Because the "GP devalued games and hurt sales" talk was always towards AAA games, not indies. Though even then, some indies were hurt by being in the service Day 1, but those seemed like outliers.

 

[DragonNCM]

 

[Puscifer]

I at least appreciate the indie devs who saw it for what it was, a way to easily recoup cost upfront but made sure their games still hit other platforms but LOL at the ones cheering this shit on and butt mad that it's dried up.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

who is supposed to be this?

 

[Ozriel]

Good. The sooner Game Pass dies the better

…that’s not what this means or implies, though.

Because the "GP devalued games and hurt sales" talk was always towards AAA games, not indies. Though even then, some indies were hurt by being in the service Day 1, but those seemed like outliers.

I see.

Weird how we had a 6 page thread snarking at MS paying six figures to bring Coffee Talk to GP, but now they’re the bad guys for offering less generous terms these days.

You seemed to get it then, in that thread.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

All the deals on GP were so obviously short term. No company is gonna do things that massively benefit the customer forever. They thought subscription growth would solve their eventual problem but that growth has stagnated.

 

[Arsic]

If it’s a choice between GP having day one exclusives and bigger titles for free, or a giant bunch of lower priced indies, I’ll take the bigger titles.

I’d much rather save $ on star field $70, or get burned by paying out of pocket for a $20 indie title that sucked.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

LMAO so just like what happened with streaming TV services huh

Did retards and shills really think Microsoft was going to pay them to play games for free forever?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I see.

Weird how we had a 6 page thread snarking at MS paying six figures to bring Coffee Talk to GP, but now they’re the bad guys for offering less generous terms these days.

You seemed to get it then, in that thread.

Bro that link is busted, takes me to a blank page.

Six figures for a small little indie game is dumb, though. But MS were probably willing to do that when they were desperate for exclusive content. Now they've got Zenimax and ABK, they don't need the indies anymore (at least, that's how they feel).

 

[FoxMcChief]

So wait, indie devs are sad the MS isn’t chasing after them anymore with game pass deals?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

So wait, indie devs are sad the MS isn’t chasing after them anymore with game pass deals?

No?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Did retards and shills really think Microsoft was going to pay them to play games for free forever?

Yes