Psykodad
Banned
Bad animations are a deal-breaker for me. It's a primary reason why I dislike Witcher 3, for example
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The Last of Us 2 Releasing On February 21st, 2020 | New Trailer
Dr Kaneda
Member
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ND needs to create a game with poor animation for it to be good. MGSV is a game with amazing animation and it's gameplay is also excellent.
What I'm saving is the animations are not (in past games at least, I hope TLoU2 will be different) reflective of user input/enemy AI.
Look at this gif for example
Is this two buttons presses or one? How can you determine whether it's an upper or slower slash? Can the enemy AI interrupt the attack? What happens if it does? etc...
This is what I meant by "scripted" or "on the rails". If this is just 1 or even 2 standard button presses and it initiates this entire animation sequence that can not be interrupted and must complete that it doesn't gel with the user input.
The more complex animations you have and the more you seek to keep them intact so as to no break "immersion" then the more you need to "control" certain aspects of the gameplay to ensure that.
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Geki-D
Banned
Uh-huh, keep telling yourself that lie as you browbeat devs into towing the conservative right wing line of no gays in media and media must remain white, straight and male by constantly accusing them of "SJW agenda" whenever they veer away from that. You guys sell your "it's just a response to SJWs" so well when you say that gay people are disgusting, trans people aren't human and unless a female protag is a sex doll, she shouldn't appear in a game.
You're either complicit to pushing these obvious, long time held conservative viewpoints (literally 70 years worth at this point), or you're a useful idiot to them. I honestly have more respect for the self assuming, self aware right wing homophobes than the putty in their hands, "actually I'm a centrist but I watched this really convincing Ben Shapiro video" brainlets.
But this thread isn't about that, I'd rather talk about the game and laugh at all of the people triggered the fuck out of their perceived "GAY AGENDA!!!".
alabtrosMyster
Member
I love ND's games as much as the next guy, but you have to be mindful of their games reveal. They oversold the AI in the reveal of the first TLoU, they oversold the performance in Uncharted 4, etc. not huge differences, but still we can't say that they earned our trust on that kind of statements. I don't want to say they lied because these things may have changed, but they could definitely have made it up.
They have done downgrades in the past - in the recent past.
Usually in ND games all these fighting animations are contextual, you just press the punch button and if you're not blocked your character will punch somewhere somehow, same for grabs and throws - if there is some environment (wall, furniture, etc.) your character could decide to use it, this has been like that since Uncharted 2 as far as I can tell.
Do write, I'm curious to know how wrong I am about this game?
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bitbydeath
Gold Member
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ND needs to create a game with poor animation for it to be good. MGSV is a game with amazing animation and it's gameplay is also excellent.
What I'm saving is the animations are not (in past games at least, I hope TLoU2 will be different) reflective of user input/enemy AI.
Look at this gif for example
Is this two buttons presses or one? How can you determine whether it's an upper or slower slash? Can the enemy AI interrupt the attack? What happens if it does? etc...
This is what I meant by "scripted" or "on the rails". If this is just 1 or even 2 standard button presses and it initiates this entire animation sequence that can not be interrupted and must complete that it doesn't gel with the user input.
The more complex animations you have and the more you seek to keep them intact so as to no break "immersion" then the more you need to "control" certain aspects of the gameplay to ensure that.
Looks like two button presses. One for each slash. It’s scripted based on how you and the enemy are standing at the time. The environment is coming into play here too as she pushes up against the wall. If the wall wasn’t there you’d see a different script/attack move.
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Jon Neu
Banned
It's always funny to see how SJW are so reactionary and extreme minded.
If you don't like SJW you are a conservative!!1!
Literally nobody is saying that you can't have gays in any media. Despite what you think, there has been gays in every media since decades and decades ago. And nobody cared, because their inclusion wasn't part of an obvious wave of political indoctrination of virtue signalling lunatics that hate "the fucking white male" and talk about "trigger warnings" and "problematic" things.
LOL
Dude, really, take a deep breath and stop making things up just for you to vomit your vitriol. For your own mental sanity.
Javthusiast
Banned
God of War, Spider-Man, Days Gone, Death Stranding, Uncharted 4... you were saying?
I hate ridiculous sjws too, but man the screeching about Ellie being gay in this forum is getting unbearable, since so far nothing about this game screams as if it will beat you over the head with sjw politics.
farmerboy
Member
Thoughts;
This is a character driven action game. Thus we will see character development. Ellie is gay. It seems there will be some exploring of that. Unless it becomes her defining characteristic then whats the problem? Get over it. I bet you the main character development will centre around revenge and hatred.
I fucking love Joel. His look, his voice his intent. He looks old though (world weary?), can't wait to see where they take him.
Hyyyppee.
Game world looks no better than Uncharted 4, but characters look better to me.
This is a character driven action game. Thus we will see character development. Ellie is gay. It seems there will be some exploring of that. Unless it becomes her defining characteristic then whats the problem? Get over it. I bet you the main character development will centre around revenge and hatred.
I fucking love Joel. His look, his voice his intent. He looks old though (world weary?), can't wait to see where they take him.
Hyyyppee.
Game world looks no better than Uncharted 4, but characters look better to me.
GermanZepp
Member
The thing is, ND put those elaborate demos with those orchestrated best case scenarios contextual animations and looks amazing but you couldn't do it in the game, maybe not because they lied about AI, but because they make up so much the gameplay that later happens the thing showed in the video. Enemies running like headless chickens that can't see you or hear you until you are 5 foot close. EDIT: Maybe watch all the video to see what i'm talking about.
If you are interested here is TLOU AI information.
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Moses85
Member
Those graphics. I started playing the first game years ago on ps3 and never finished it. Maybe I should jump back.
Shame on you
go and Play it. NOW!
Moses85
Member
Both get raped and Ellie will be pregnant after that.
Komatsu
Member
This is not true at all. I urge you to reflect on why having a gay character in *one* of the three dozens of AAA games coming out in 2019 bothers you so much.
If this is the plot, I'll be very disappointed. Revenge-rape rampages... It all seems so 70s and hack-and-slashey.
mejin
Member
Maybe as a initial plot, but we know it never really is that "simple" with ND.
down 2 orth
Member
Well Control's reception scared a lot of people. This game will still sell extremely well, but some people are getting anxious that the "get woke go broke" formula is becoming a known quantity in the industry, and want to avoid a reversal of the gaming trends of the last few years.
Handy Fake
Member
The clicking in the darkness put the shits right up me...
MDSLKTR
Member
In what world do you live?
Winters_Solace
Member
Maybe Joel doesn't live in the town. I remember he and Tommy didn't really get along, but then again that kinda adds to theory Joel is in the cabin
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
The original still looks fantastic. This sequel is going to deliver on all fronts if you ask me. I can't wait to see how they've improved the crafting mechanic. One thing that the remaster did that kinda threw me off was having so much tiny DLC to buy. I have a couple I purchased. I like the multiplayer, but I wonder what TLoU2 DLC is going to be like (if any).
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
People living their normal lives, can't be considered "propaganda". CERTAIN people need to get a life and learn that they aren't the only ones that can be depicted in media.
GymWolf
Member
4k version from gamersyde
www.gamersyde.com
Stream and download State of Play Trailer from The Last of Us Part II in very high quality
Stream and download State of Play Trailer from The Last of Us Part II in very high quality
www.gamersyde.com
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
You don't normally see AI breaking attacks until a certain amount of attacks has been registered.Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ND needs to create a game with poor animation for it to be good. MGSV is a game with amazing animation and it's gameplay is also excellent.
What I'm saving is the animations are not (in past games at least, I hope TLoU2 will be different) reflective of user input/enemy AI.
Look at this gif for example
Is this two buttons presses or one? How can you determine whether it's an upper or slower slash? Can the enemy AI interrupt the attack? What happens if it does? etc...
This is what I meant by "scripted" or "on the rails". If this is just 1 or even 2 standard button presses and it initiates this entire animation sequence that can not be interrupted and must complete that it doesn't gel with the user input.
The more complex animations you have and the more you seek to keep them intact so as to no break "immersion" then the more you need to "control" certain aspects of the gameplay to ensure that.
You can see during Ellie's attacks that there's a slight pause before she hits the AI again.
I wouldn't consider this scriped because these are typically how action games are when enemy AI has animatons where theyre getting hurt.
Arun1910
Member
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying ND needs to create a game with poor animation for it to be good. MGSV is a game with amazing animation and it's gameplay is also excellent.
What I'm saving is the animations are not (in past games at least, I hope TLoU2 will be different) reflective of user input/enemy AI.
Look at this gif for example
Is this two buttons presses or one? How can you determine whether it's an upper or slower slash? Can the enemy AI interrupt the attack? What happens if it does? etc...
This is what I meant by "scripted" or "on the rails". If this is just 1 or even 2 standard button presses and it initiates this entire animation sequence that can not be interrupted and must complete that it doesn't gel with the user input.
The more complex animations you have and the more you seek to keep them intact so as to no break "immersion" then the more you need to "control" certain aspects of the gameplay to ensure that.
Looks like 2. Look after she finishes the first slash, there is a little pause cause of the animation blending. Seems like it works just the first game, where more input gives a longer chain for whatever you're doing.
demigod
Member
Not better than my man Marcus, though.
Are you serious? Take a good look again at the pic you quoted. Joel's beard and face look sharper, Marcus' beard and face looks like a blurry mess. Even Marcus armor looks sharper than his face.
nowhat
Member
At least on a Pro, botched reconstruction, meaning a blurry image compared to a good 2160c checkerboarding implementation and completely botched HDR on all platforms. We may debate the merits of the graphics otherwise, but personally those two points are very important and RDR2 doesn't shine in those.
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Dr Kaneda
Member
This is exactly what I've been trying to say when you guys say "animations are contextual" or "scripted based on how".
I'm not asking ND have the same repetitive canned animation for every attack or having insanely bloated control whereby you need to move individual limbs etc.., but they need to have a balance between those things and what they're doing now which is simply a button presses in which the satisfaction on the players end is determined not be player themselves/intentional input but rather the contextual situation the game chooses to render to the player based on elements outside the players control.
An example of this, and something it looks like they've improved on from TLoU1 in this new one, is dodging. In the 1st game any of the dodge like animations where basically not player controlled and instead scripted based on how close a shot or hit was to you. At least with TLoU2 from what I've read is that you need to now initiate that dodge with a player controlled command. They should be including more stuff like this, so maybe have a long press or a shorter press of a button result in different attacks or the joysticks direction at the time of an attack determine it's position on a enemy etc... Have stuff like that instead of it all being manually scripted based on events not within the players control.
demigod
Member
Lesbians, downgrades, what else you xbox fanboys have? You only WISH you could play this downgrade
.
alabtrosMyster
Member
Many don't discern the actual issues with the "SJW" religion, they just learned how to spot "the gays" and other types of groups from the official SJW "oppressed groups" list and map them on to the backlash against groups/phenomenas like Antifa, the cancel culture, internationalist evaluation grid, etc. In fact I would go as far as saying that they use the intersectional grid, just in reverse, which is kind of ironic. Lifting people up on the back of others is not a good solution to any perceived problem, no matter in which direction you are going.
Anyways, my own problem with some of the recent inclusion and audience subversion efforts is more that it felt like forced pandering to what is commonly called the SJW crowd, it was badly written, or it seemed like that was done more out of spite for "whiteness' than in actual effort to lift anyone up - having an openly gay, or female lead is not edgy or subversive in 2019, nor was it back in 2015... However, pretty much all games are badly written anyway, so who am I to judge?
Ellie does not strike me as anything close to a Marie Sue - just in the trailers for TLoU 2 she does through much more pain and has more credible motivation than pretty much all video games characters, the acting is great... I mean, you have to judge the game on its merit, not whatever politics you assign to its characters or its creators.
Keihart
Member
Dodging is an uncharted mechanic making it's way into TLoU, that's a game with a very contextual melee combat as well.
Point is, usually in a shooter, you don't have a fleshed out melee combat like DMCV, at most you have a slow clunky melee like Souls series and that's best case scenario, something like Remnant?. ND found a way with contextual animations and what not to make this clunky melee actions cooler and since they are good at animating and stuff it really shows the quality. It's not about taking control away from the player, it's more about making something very simple and clunky look better. You still can throw objects on enemies faces to stun them it's only lacking a CQC system like MGS with the 3 or 4 hits and the grab variations, but you get the best of that game for this context. Choke, hostage, throwing enemies to the floor, and hand to hand combat.
Hand to hand combat is better than in MGS's if you ask me, since enemies here can defend themselves and are not caught staggered in a combo if you start before them.
It would be cool to aim for the head with melee weapons and stuff, but that is something that nobody else is doing either. Regarding CQC and shooting mechanics this is not that much far away of something like MGSV.
Think about it, what can't you do in TLoU that you can in MGS combat wise, not movement:
Non fatal hostages?
Shooting while prone?
ledge grabs?
chaining CQC?
IDK if this things would fit or make TLoU have better combat.
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GymWolf
Member
He only post screen of marcus (or the one screen when jd looks good) because he knows that the "female" protagonist and the other comprimary are almost a gen behind compared to ND games in terms of faces and digital acting.
Ask him to post some gif with gears5 manly female protagonist during cutscene to make a confrontation with ellie's facial animation and facial details and get ready to laugh
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Airbus Jr
Banned
how they changed with time
men dont get older , they just become smarter
Assuming Joel is in his early 40s in the first game ( 2013)
Adding 7 years into that wont change much of his appearance
Assuming Ellie is 13-14 in the first game (2013)
+7 years latter (2020) her kiddy face will look different compared to her young adult version
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bosnianpie
Member
I believe Ellie's sexual preferences will be of minor importance in a game like this, especially considering her girlfriend gets murdered early on, or so it seems atleast. I would be very surprised if ND turned it into some woke, educational cringe fest with gay characters.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Seems pretty obvious that the trailer is a big misdirect. Objectively killing the girlfriend isn't sufficient motivation to send her off on a rampage, its just not. If anything she's going to be the one who sets Joel and her up, and the primary story arc is going to be Ellie looking for revenge on her and those that turned her.
Shagger
Banned
Joel had a 12 yo daughter at the time of the outbreak. Assume he had her at 18 (US age of concent). Of course I'm assuming the age he had Sarah at 18, but he didn't go to collage because he had Sarah, so I don't think 18 can be far off. Take that 18, add Sarah's age (12) he'd be 30 at the outbreak. Add the 20 year skip that's 50 during the events of the first game.
Ellie was 14 during the first game and it was already stated she's 19 in the sequil, so that is adding 5 years. So assuming I'm right about Sarah's age (I can't be far off) that makes Joel 55 in TLOU 2.
Ellie was 14 during the first game and it was already stated she's 19 in the sequil, so that is adding 5 years. So assuming I'm right about Sarah's age (I can't be far off) that makes Joel 55 in TLOU 2.
Life
Member
Joel, the year is 2020 now - sit your ass down and let her go on her own suicide mission. Ellie's got tattoos now - and she's a bad ass LGBT icon thingamajig - she can handle a few hundred killers and get the credits rolling.
P.S. I still feel for your daughter man - so many years later.
P.S. I still feel for your daughter man - so many years later.
Self_Destructive
Member
vs Joel
They are easily on the same playing field visually. Of course, the animation is/will be more nuanced in TLOU2... but remember one of these games is claimed as so visually realistic and amazing... and the other features bulky disproportionately sized marines....