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[Baker]

The side quests in this game are killing me.

I'm Battle Level 53 and I think I've only done around four story missions.

Spoiler

The last one I did was the Rush/Emma one when you go find your mom.

I pretty much have the entire continent unlocked just from running errands and crap, hehe.

I love everything about this game...

 

[garath]

So it's only through this thread that I learn you can revive other unions. 20 hours into the game and some late 40s battle rank and I never used it once (had some nailbiters getting down to one union left). I have difficulties getting my units to use herbs instead of healing arts unfortunately. I suppose I'll have to dig through some recruits to see if any have herb skills.

Then again, reviving unions would make the game much easier. Do I really want that?

 

[Baker]

Then again, reviving unions would make the game much easier. Do I really want that?

Each union can only hold a certain number of herbs per battle though. So, even if you decide on revive arts, you'll be capped around three uses anyways.

It's best to use a union that has a secondary magic user too, because then he/she will heal the rezzed unit afterward.

 

[Schopenhauer]

Each union can only hold a certain number of herbs per battle though. So, even if you decide on revive arts, you'll be capped around three uses anyways.

What led you to believe that there is a cap on the number of herbs you can take into a battle? I think the only real limit on item artes is how many of the necessary ingredients you have in your inventory.

 

[Baker]

What led you to believe that there is a cap on the number of herbs you can take into a battle? I think the only real limit on item artes is how many of the necessary ingredients you have in your inventory.

I knew I should have put an asterisk after my statement, because I'm still a bit confused by it. However, this is how I see it:

- When you find herbs after a battle, the left side has an RB-scrollable list of party members who can use it. It always just says "x1" by the name.

- You can have fifty of every herb in your inventory, but I've still never been able to use Revive more than 2-3 times per battle.

- This led me to believe that upon entering a battle, each person able to use herbs/potions takes out one item from the collective bunch.

I know it's probably not 100% correct, but I really think there is a limit for how many times you can use herb/potion arts and it is not equal to the number of items in your inventory.

 

[Schopenhauer]

^ That number just refers to how many items are consumed when they use that item arte, and you can have 100 of every herb in your inventory. There definitely isn't a limit either as long as you have the ingredients.

 

[duckroll]

I knew I should have put an asterisk after my statement, because I'm still a bit confused by it. However, this is how I see it:

- When you find herbs after a battle, the left side has an RB-scrollable list of party members who can use it. It always just says "x1" by the name.

- You can have fifty of every herb in your inventory, but I've still never been able to use Revive more than 2-3 times per battle.

- This led me to believe that upon entering a battle, each person able to use herbs/potions takes out one item from the collective bunch.

I know it's probably not 100% correct, but I really think there is a limit for how many times you can use herb/potion arts and it is not equal to the number of items in your inventory.

This is inaccurate. The x1, x2 indicator next to a skill indicates how much of each item is used up everytime that is used for that particular skill. As the Item Arts get better, so do the basic requirements. There is NO cap on how many times you can use an Item Art in battle, but there are different parameters for when Item Arts are available. For example, I have discovered that Rush's Union will never have an option to revive his own team with Vivication Herbs, until he has revived all other fallen Unions. In a boss battle earlier, I had just revived Caedmon's Union with Rush (and ONLY Rush, since everyone else in his Union was dead lol), and the next turn the only option for revival I had was for the guest Union that was dead. Luckily Caedmon's Union was in deadlock with the boss, so I was able to revive the guest Union without getting into a fight. The turn after that, Rush got the option to "cure those ailments!" which made him use Vivication Herbs on his own Union and brought them all back.

 

[Baker]

...but there are different parameters for when Item Arts are available.

Ah, I guess that's where I'm getting confused then. Sorry, I wasn't trying to spread false information, it was just the only way it made sense in my head after the hours and hours of playing last weekend.

So what the hell are the parameters? I was doing the tournament side quests plus screwing around with some dragons, so I was dying a lot. Like I said before, there was just some wall I would hit around three revivals and after that no union would ever have the option again. Afterward, I would still have over 20 of each herb, and could revive during the next set of battles.

 

[duckroll]

Ah, I guess that's where I'm getting confused then. Sorry, I wasn't trying to spread false information, it was just the only way it made sense in my head after the hours and hours of playing last weekend.

So what the hell are the parameters? I was doing the tournament side quests plus screwing around with some dragons, so I was dying a lot. Like I said before, there was just some wall I would hit around three revivals and after that no union would ever have the option again. Afterward, I would still have over 20 of each herb, and could revive during the next set of battles.

Most things in the game aren't made completely clear, because part of the "appeal" of the SaGa game design mentality has been that the less the player knows, the more mysterious and interesting the game is (lololol). My bet is that there are things linked to morale, as well as what position each Union is in. If you're stuck in a multi-deadlock for example, it's entirely possible that a Union will refuse to revive another Union if it means it could get caught in a Raidlock and killed. I've found that often a Union will not want to revive its own members if one or two have fallen, if all the Unions are still alive on the whole. I'm not totally sure of it myself, but that's my experience from certain major battles.

 

[Llyranor]

Looks like this is turning out to be a must-play for any turn-based JRPG fan who likes innovation in the genre.

I'll probably have to rent it soon (the rental store didn't have it today ). Still holding out on a purchase until details on the other platforms come up.

 

[Schopenhauer]

Most things in the game aren't made completely clear, because part of the "appeal" of the SaGa game design mentality has been that the less the player knows, the more mysterious and interesting the game is (lololol). My bet is that there are things linked to morale, as well as what position each Union is in. If you're stuck in a multi-deadlock for example, it's entirely possible that a Union will refuse to revive another Union if it means it could get caught in a Raidlock and killed. I've found that often a Union will not want to revive its own members if one or two have fallen, if all the Unions are still alive on the whole. I'm not totally sure of it myself, but that's my experience from certain major battles.

I think this may have something to do with character class (especially of the leader) the overall make up of the union and the mysterious 4th unique stat. I have had healer class union leaders go out of there way to heal even when I told them to do otherwise.

I generally have the opposite problem of having to many healing options when a unit has been ko'd at the expense of attack options. Really though, I think it has a lot to do with the makeup of the union. I have never had any problems getting my healing/long range and group magic team to revive or heal.

 

[duckroll]

I think this may have something to do with character class (especially of the leader) the overall make up of the union and the mysterious 4th unique stat. I have had healer class union leaders go out of there way to heal even when I told them to do otherwise.

I generally have the opposite problem of having to many healing options when a unit has been ko'd at the expense of attack options. Really though, I think it has a lot to do with the makeup of the union. I have never had any problems getting my healing/long range and group magic team to revive or heal.

I'm sure the characters and classes have an influence too. Like I said, my Rush Union seems to only want to revive itself, when all other Unions are alive. My Caedmon Union which I'm trying to focus mystic arts on hasn't had healing issues either, but he only just learned revival item arts, so we'll see how that goes.

 

[Spoo]

I'm not recommending you train up in the mines. I totally recommend going OUT of the mines. You can do that, and the party will reform automatically. Put Emma in the lead of a new Union and go to some other map and take on a few side quests. It shouldn't take long for her to bounce back, the game knows if one character is significantly weaker than the others.

Sounds good man, thanks for the advice.

Game is so fucking addicting it hurts.

 

[Kestastrophe]

Waiting for my copy to arrive from Amazon:

How big is the install and does it actually improve performance?

 

[Baker]

I generally have the opposite problem of having to many healing options when a unit has been ko'd at the expense of attack options. Really though, I think it has a lot to do with the makeup of the union. I have never had any problems getting my healing/long range and group magic team to revive or heal.

How does the game handle a long range unit? I haven't tried that yet. I'm assuming it's a combination of formation and character classes, but does the game differentiate that if they get caught in a deadlock?

The problem I ran into is that it seems like my spell based union ended up with the highest Speed (or whatever the hell else dictates attack order). Until I got my my fourth union, the bastards would be the first to attack around 75% of the time even though they obviously had the lowest HP. Something about adding that fourth unit made the attack order work the way I'd expect (pretty much their stacking in the union menu).

Have there been any unofficial studies of what the best ratio of unions:characters is? I'm preferring 4 unions with 3 characters a piece (mix, mix/combat, spell, combat), but I'm talking to other people who just rock massive 2 union 6 character teams.

Waiting for my copy to arrive from Amazon:

How big is the install and does it actually improve performance?

Judging by the batshit insane reviews I've skimmed, installing makes it an entirely different game.

 

[Zzoram]

Waiting for my copy to arrive from Amazon:

How big is the install and does it actually improve performance?

Supposedly this game is borderline unplayable without an install, which is the main reason given for bad reviews. IGN specifically said that if they give games a pass even though they barely run on Arcade skus, which may one day become the majority of skus, then that sets a bad precedent.

 

[TheExodu5]

This thread title is worse than the Motorstorm PR one.

 

[Volcynika]

I was just planning on passing on this title when it actually hit the PS3 in the future, but the majority of user responses seems like it might be worth a look whenever it actually DOES come out on the PS3.

Now it's time to play the waiting game.

*twiddles thumbs*

 

[Vustadumas]

Got a little play time this weekend, just the opening bit of the game, and explored the first city a bit. VO is beyond terrible :lol The one-liner's before battles are awful, WTF... Game is ugly as well, but partially due to the engine. Game feels very unfinished.

Battle system seems really simplistic, but I haven't played enough to really get a good sense of how it flows.

So, serious question. How long until the game hits it's stride, and picks up? I want to make sure to give it a fair shake, before shelving it for something else.

 

[garath]

Have there been any unofficial studies of what the best ratio of unions:characters is? I'm preferring 4 unions with 3 characters a piece (mix, mix/combat, spell, combat), but I'm talking to other people who just rock massive 2 union 6 character teams.

With my current units, I would not even consider deviating from the 4 union w/ 3 units each formula. I like to chain a bunch of encounters together at once and one of the keys to survivability is not getting flanked. I have 4 unions that are capable of killing off most enemy unions in one round each, generally only leaving a couple unions left. If I was only using 2 unions, it would be massive overkill and I'd be getting flanked constantly.

The exception is boss fights. If I'm having trouble with a boss fight, I collapse to larger unions (I would do it every time but I'm too lazy to remake them every time). Multi-lock negates the advantage of multiple unions against a single target with massive hp.

 

[duckroll]

This thread title is worse than the Motorstorm PR one.

Lemme do something about that.

 

[garath]

Got a little play time this weekend, just the opening bit of the game, and explored the first city a bit. VO is beyond terrible :lol The one-liner's before battles are awful, WTF... Game is ugly as well, but partially due to the engine. Game feels very unfinished.

Battle system seems really simplistic, but I haven't played enough to really get a good sense of how it flows.

So, serious question. How long until the game hits it's stride, and picks up? I want to make sure to give it a fair shake, before shelving it for something else.

I was 'meh' on it for the first 3-5 hours. It picks up after you get the game's major functions (recruits, multiple unions, customizing, etc).

It struck me as a prolonged tutorial that introduces elements piece by piece rather than thrusting you into the meat of the game immediately. Sometimes that works, in this case I don't feel it did.

 

[Threi]

fine il rent it jeez.

 

[HK-47]

Excellent title change

 

[duckroll]

VO is beyond terrible :lol The one-liner's before battles are awful, WTF...

Come on, let's kick some A! >_<

 

[Neil]

How big is the install and does it actually improve performance?

I believe it's slightly more than 5GB and it does improve performance drastically.
Whenever I play a game, I will always install it first from now on

 

[Lé Blade Runner]

Just finished Dillmoor and yes, this game is slowly picking up. And yes, it's starting to get quite addictive.

Anyway, without further babbling, I return to the game itself.

 

[Haunted]

Hey, title change!


Oh how they laughed at me when I declared this game looked pretty good in earlier threads. Oh how they laughed. Sweet, sweet vindication.

Spoiler

Now watch me ending up hating the game when I play it next year. >_<

:lol

 

[Zalasta]

Most things in the game aren't made completely clear, because part of the "appeal" of the SaGa game design mentality has been that the less the player knows, the more mysterious and interesting the game is (lololol).

That's the biggest problem I have with TLR, things just occur seemingly in random:

What are the requirements for a character to "level up" their HP/AP/Stats?
How do they learn brand new arts?
How do characters change classes and what exactly does it affect?
When there are limited AP, who take precedent in executing a special and who does a regular attack?
What determines which union and which unit act first?
What exactly does the 4th stat (e.g. katana tech, bravery, luck, repair, etc) do, if anything?

 

[Cloudy]

I didn't bother with emailing them, figuring a phone call would be faster and more direct.

Depending on your location try one of these numbers:

1-866-216-1072
International customers can reach us at: 1-206-266-2992.

Give them your email addy or order # and simply explain to them that you had just ordered it shortly before the price drop. Mine was only a few hours difference so I'm not sure if they'll take issue with the week that has passed with yours - shouldn't be a problem, though. No need to beg or argue, they'll just credit $10 back to your account.

I called Amazon and they said they don't do price gurantees anymore as of 9/1 this year. My mistake was not ordering it at $29.99 and returning the first order. The game is back up to $59.99 today :lol

 

[Schopenhauer]

How does the game handle a long range unit? I haven't tried that yet. I'm assuming it's a combination of formation and character classes, but does the game differentiate that if they get caught in a deadlock?

Usually there is an option to attack at long range (attack from afar) and if not then I will just leave them on standby or standby with healing (especially for boss fights). If you do have the chance just to do long range attacks, only those members will attack.

I don't know if it is because of the long range attacks but my long range/healing unit often has the option to attack from the back (rear assault) even though the target enemy unit hasn't even been attacked by any of my other unions yet.

 

[duckroll]

That's the biggest problem I have with TLR, things just occur seemingly in random:

Well, I'll try to answer some of those.

What are the requirements for a character to "level up" their HP/AP/Stats? <-- Those stats improve over time. Sometimes it's random simply because you fought enough battles, but often it's influenced by what happens in a battle. If you attacked a lot physically, then strength is more likely to go up. Or intellect if you used mystic arts for that union a lot in the battle. HP and AP are the ones that increase the most often simply because they're important generic stats.

How do they learn brand new arts? <-- Keep using arts and you get better at them eventually. The characters will either learn the new art in the middle of battle, other times at the end of the battle. You have to keep using the type of art that you want to improve, or it'll never get better automatically.

How do characters change classes and what exactly does it affect? <-- Class changes are influenced by what arts they focus on and what weapons they use. Generally this means that it's unlikely that characters will change from one type of class to another, they just get better at the class they're in. For Rush if you change the type of weapon he uses, after a few battles it's likely he'll change his class to align with that. I believe it affects the specific arts you can learn while being in that class.

When there are limited AP, who take precedent in executing a special and who does a regular attack? <-- Leaders usually take precedent above all else within a union.

What determines which union and which unit act first? <-- Speed and engagement. If a Union is already in a deadlock, it will always act first, followed by the Union(s) that are not in a deadlock. Outside of that it's all based on the average speed in the Union, and the speed of each character.

What exactly does the 4th stat (e.g. katana tech, bravery, luck, repair, etc) do, if anything? <-- Don't think anyone has a solid answer on that one yet.

 

[BuckRobotron]

Have this coming in from the Amazon $30 deal. I like the new thread title. Otherwise, have only skimmed lightly about the thread to see that many here (and elsewhere) seem enthused about it.

Looking forward to discovering the game's merits independently.

 

[~Kinggi~]

What the hell is this crap, I ordered this at 39.99 on Black Friday and just received it today. Its 29.99 now. Fuckers.

 

[duckroll]

What the hell is this crap, I ordered this at 39.99 on Black Friday and just received it today. Its 29.99 now. Fuckers.

Yeah, it's been discussed. If you missed it: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13820154&postcount=901

Hope you get the 10 bucks back!

 

[Schopenhauer]

The one-liner's before battles are awful, WTF...

You need to recruit a union leader named Gabriel. He sounds sort of like Ricky Ricardo or Dad from the Brak Show. All of his battle quotes are beyond awesome.

 

[Krelian]

I'm not very far yet, but Rush just learned something entirely new. The screen said "Synergy" and everyone in Rush's union changed their commands to one big mystic attack called Blackout which seemed to attack all the enemies on the field. I haven't read anything about that yet. Is there more to this? It seems to happen at random when I attack with mystic arts.

 

[MirageDwarf]

I didn't bother with emailing them, figuring a phone call would be faster and more direct.

Depending on your location try one of these numbers:

1-866-216-1072
International customers can reach us at: 1-206-266-2992.

Give them your email addy or order # and simply explain to them that you had just ordered it shortly before the price drop. Mine was only a few hours difference so I'm not sure if they'll take issue with the week that has passed with yours - shouldn't be a problem, though. No need to beg or argue, they'll just credit $10 back to your account.

Didn't work for me. Guy on the phone told me price-matching for 30-days is discontinued from Sept 1, 2008. Ordered it two days before it dropped to $29.95.

 

[Schopenhauer]

I'm not very far yet, but Rush just learned something entirely new. The screen said "Synergy" and everyone in Rush's union changed their commands to one big mystic attack called Blackout which seemed to attack all the enemies on the field. I haven't read anything about that yet. Is there more to this? It seems to happen at random when I attack with mystic arts.

It is a combination of mystic arts that form an Arcana arte. Once you have performed that type of skill the first time you "unlock" it and can use it again without needing to combine spells, although you can still perform it by combining the right spells. I am pretty sure that only union leaders can learn this type of arte since you need to be in an excited state (orange flames) on to use it.

 

[duckroll]

It is a combination of mystic arts that form an Arcana arte. Once you have performed that type of skill the first time you "unlock" it and can use it again without needing to combine spells, although you can still perform it by combining the right spells. I am pretty sure that only union leaders can learn this type of arte since you need to be in an excited state (orange flames) on to use it.

What the fuck, I've never seen that because I mostly use combat arts. Crap!

 

[Raide]

I ordered my copy from play on Saturday, now I just have to sit back and wait.

This thread is getting me more and more interested in the game and it almost sounds like a game with a huge amount of depth. Combat sounds fantastic and the way player characters level up and gain skills sounds great. When I first saw combat, it gave me a "Kingdom Under Fire" vibe.

I am guessing TLR has no online/multiplayer features at all? Not a major thing but co-op could have been fun.

TLR MMO anyone?:lol

 

[BlazingDarkness]

oh ffs, my 360 has scratched the disc, whenever i try and enter celapeleis, it gives me the disk read error
i can't install it either, that also gives me the disc read error
and i can't find my receipt for the game
is there anywhere online i can get the game for cheaper than in stores? i'm in the UK, and i aint paying 40 quid for it again for it to be ruined

 

[2real4tv]

Was a release date set for the PS3?

 

[Brandon F]

GAF agrees with Famitsu???

 

[garath]

What the fuck, I've never seen that because I mostly use combat arts. Crap!

Ugh, me neither. Time to hit the guildhalls and grab some mystic users.

 

[Schopenhauer]

What the fuck, I've never seen that because I mostly use combat arts. Crap!

I didn't accidentally unlock it till the second disc, and while it has come in handy in a few battles it is nowhere near as powerful as Gae Bolg (sp). I think that using a combination of

Spoiler

Spark and Eclipse (I think the key here is that the leader needs to be the one using spark)

will unlock it although there may be a 3rd spell.

 

[Krelian]

It is a combination of mystic arts that form an Arcana arte. Once you have performed that type of skill the first time you "unlock" it and can use it again without needing to combine spells, although you can still perform it by combining the right spells. I am pretty sure that only union leaders can learn this type of arte since you need to be in an excited state (orange flames) on to use it.

You mean I should have a command "Attack with arcane arts" or a second "Attack with mystic arts" with that attack? Haven't seen either

 

[Flipside]

I wanted to pick this game up last week but I wasn't 100% sure yet.

Today I saw it on Play for €25,50 so I ordered it right away. When I checked this evening it was already back at it's old price so I am glad I got this for a bargain Looking forward to trying it.

 

[Schopenhauer]

You mean I should have a command "Attack with arcane arts" or a second "Attack with mystic arts" with that attack? Haven't seen either

No, it will say Use Blackout and will be in yellow. It will only show up occasionally when there are orange flames on the union leaders portrait.

 

[Krelian]

Oh, alright then. Thanks!