Okay the premise of unlocking the Door of Time or whatever that slab thing was (I saw ____ of Time and freaked out) is awesome. Either way I'll be going backward or forward in the future (or past). Dungeon 3's music default music has been the most memorable so far dungeon-wise plus it was a step up from the previous two which were too easy and uninteresting. Scorpion boss was fun. It was super easy but it was satisfying clearing a boss with basically just your sword. Yeah Ghirahim was the same but the scorpion was less strategic and it felt good speeding through it. They should have just called the scorpion Gohma.
Oh and I'm worried about the harp. I know it has had some complaints but I love how it sounds. It's not as interesting as the Wind Waker or Ocarina of Time though since it's entirely rhythm-based as opposed to note/button-based.
edit:
Mindblown that it's a Spirit Temple remix. I knew there were dungeon remixes but man I could barely tell the first time I heard it. That's a good thing!
Beat it Yesterday, and imo it's the best Zelda. I even loved the "fetch quests" as some of you call them. They're always done in a fashion that you traverse familiar environments in a new way, keeping it interesting.
The only bad thing I can come up with was
having to fight the Imprisoned 3 times and the training with your bird to hit the 10 targets, only moment in the game I wished I had normal controls.
I really need the soundtrack of this. Youtube videos aren't cutting it, I want this on my iPod.
What you call "fetch quest bullshit" is what was the focus during the development of the game, so yeah, that won't change. I'll Probably never understand people who so aggressively dislike it, though. The area design is fantastic (beats the dungeon design by miles) and there are actually only very few quests that don't offer absolutely new content...
It's like the people who complain about backtracking in Metroid games. Fair enough, you don't enjoy a core part of the game, maybe you should stop playing or do your research before hand.
Of course mileage may vary, and I will agree that not every backtracking section will be as glorious as the other (or in the case of Zelda games, not every pre-dungeon quest will be in the amazing design range). But if you dislike it down to the core, maybe the game isn't for you?
The problem isn't fetch quests, it's fetch quests that add no new content. Pre- dungeon 4 there's a thing you need to find before you go to a new area. It's something you need to search for after finding the solution for a puzzle, and requires literally no new skills or challenges. It's just a boring retread to cover old ground and pad time.
So I apparently need to move around some windmills to get a clue to where to go next. So far, so good. One is broken. Need the part that fell through the cluds to fix it. Okay, fine. Talked to the scrap shop guy, he has an old robot that can find it, but he needs a flower to repair that... Where do I find that flower? (And did the game just send me on a fetch quest to start another fetch quest?)
Also what's this all about the item store girl?
Lead her on? What do you guys mean? She doesn't really say anything other than just that she has a wall to get back to staring at... Do you need to visit her a lot to get that sidequest? Or did I lock myself out of that by responding negatively to her first question if I was there to see her? Because I wasn't, I just needed to drop a spare shield.
So I apparently need to move around some windmills to get a clue to where to go next. So far, so good. One is broken. Need the part that fell through the cluds to fix it. Okay, fine. Talked to the scrap shop guy, he has an old robot that can find it, but he needs a flower to repair that... Where do I find that flower? (And did the game just send me on a fetch quest to start another fetch quest?)
Also what's this all about the item store girl?
Lead her on? What do you guys mean? She doesn't really say anything other than just that she has a wall to get back to staring at... Do you need to visit her a lot to get that sidequest? Or did I lock myself out of that by responding negatively to her first question if I was there to see her? Because I wasn't, I just needed to drop a spare shield.
The Ancient Flower can be found in past areas of Lanayru. It's a little fetch quest, but I'm honestly surprised you hadn't picked one up already. They're fairly common and I had at least 3 or so when I had to give one to the blacksmith. The propeller can then be found close to the dungeon entrance in Eldin by the way.
As for Peatrice, the item check girl, just pay a visit to her each time you're in Skyloft and tell her what she wants to hear.
The Ancient Flower can be found in past areas of Lanayru. It's a little fetch quest, but I'm honestly surprised you hadn't picked one up already. They're fairly common and I had at least 3 or so when I had to give one to the blacksmith. The propeller can then be found close to the dungeon entrance in Eldin by the way.
As for Peatrice, the item check girl, just pay a visit to her each time you're in Skyloft and tell her what she wants to hear.
holy shit. everything relating to dungeon five and pre-dungeon five is fucking awesome.
[dungeon 5 spoilers]
i really want the bow or bow-related puzzles earlier. fuck, i think the scattershot should have been there instead for greater puzzles. i love that i don't need to do the wii sports resort thing to use it either, just point and click, like in tp.
speaking of tp, my beloved clawshots return. oh how i've missed them.
guess i'll be wrapping the game up relatively soon. i'm at the 21 hour mark and with 1 dungeon left and then the endgame, i should finish around the 30 hour mark with some more sidequests completed.
To me, what defines a control method is how efficient it is in executing what the player wants (which includes simplicity and precision), and how much freedom it gives him in doing so.
I have no inherent bias towards any control method, as long as it works well and doesn't require expensive peripherals, so I can't really see how it was "forced". If anything, I'd say defining one as forced hides some bias against it (you think it's unnecessary, so you must consider it inferior somehow), whatever the control method is.
It's like the people who complain about backtracking in Metroid games. Fair enough, you don't enjoy a core part of the game, maybe you should stop playing or do your research before hand.
Of course mileage may vary, and I will agree that not every backtracking section will be as glorious as the other (or in the case of Zelda games, not every pre-dungeon quest will be in the amazing design range). But if you dislike it down to the core, maybe the game isn't for you?
[Spoilers may vary, they're all tagged though]
As Amir0x said, the game does have both good and bad backtracking. Still, I think the negative comments are blown way out of proportion. Most backtracking parts are short thanks to the shortcuts you unlock, lead to new areas (except the
Eldin province
, which featured very few) and generally involve significant twists to the gameplay.
Even the one part I liked least (
the tadnotes one
) played very differently, to the point that it doesn't really matter where it's set. Also, some of them actually play on the fact that you're familiar with the area (
the Silent Realm trials and the weaponless stealth section
). While I probably would have preferred the latter to be set somewhere else (
like a Bokoblin stronghold, instead of the same area with added fences
), I'm actually glad the first wasn't. It would have been a lot less enjoyable otherwise, as familiarity with the terrain wouldn't have helped you
in case the guardians awoke
.
I agree that some parts could, and perhaps should have been avoided (
the backtracking to the first dungeon was pointless even through the fight against three Stalfos was awesome, plus the escort mission in Eldin, the Imprisoned fights not varying enough, the already mentioned tadnotes fetch quest and some of the sidequests involving Scrapper
), but we had someone call out PAAADDINNNGGGGG all in caps one entire section where you play one unique minigame (
the mine cart ride in the Shipyard
) with mechanics not seen anywhere else in the game, just because there was a certain reused thing at the very end (which I actually appreciated, because it surprised me
as you never see dungeon bosses reused as common enemies in modern Zelda
, and was really short anyway). I can understand appreciating things (or not) differently and having different priorities. We thankfully all like different things, and have different expectations from the game. Still, what the hell for the reaction to some of these.
EDIT: Damn, all these spoiler tags make the post hardly legible. I wanted to make sure to give concrete examples for each point, though.
Yeah I don't think it's fair towards the game to paint all these sections with a broad brush and call them all fetch quests/padding sections.
If we were to compare it to the backtracking criticism Metroid gets sometimes, it equals to call every time you walk through an area for the second time as negative part of the game. Eventhough something has been changed since last time you were there (new weapons, access to hidden area, new enemies, new music, environmental changes etc.).
Call a spade a spade. It's ok to complain about backtracing/fetch quests where the devs obviously haven't put much work into and the design leaves a lot to be desired, but lumping a few misses together with an entire core mechanic of a game and claiming it needs to be scrapped is indeed a bit odd...
I have no inherent bias towards any control method, as long as it works well and doesn't require expensive peripherals, so I can't really see how it was "forced". If anything, I'd say defining one as forced hides some bias against it (you think it's unnecessary, so you must consider it inferior somehow), whatever the control method is.
No need to overanalyse the issue, "practice" is doing all the talking now. Other users i have seen playing have issues swiming in tight spaces and efficiently changing directions to grab an object, for example.
The reason they are forced it's because controlling swiming by motion is not adding any improvement to the traditional control stick method. A method that people are familiar with and they still use to move their character on ground. So way detach from that logic when you are in water? The reason the complains are less for flying its because no issues araise because of the huge open space where pin point acuracy isn't required, save for maybe 2 times in the hole game.
The swim controlling method contrast a lot with the sword controls, because in this case it adds something to the game and player experience. So no, my opinion of how the swiming is handled doesn't arise from some "Bias" as you put it.
I thought the swimming controls in this title were the best I have experienced in any title with under water levels. Everything felt intuitive and I never had any faults with it.
One more item to go and now I think the game is at its best. Most of the sidequests are fun, the ever expanding areas are well done and I can pretty much just zoom around the world and prepare to the next dungeon. Too bad the first half of this game was way too easy, slow and linear.
I'm enjoying the game right now, but I can't see it being anywhere near my favourite Zeldas. The basic formula is just too easy and simple for someone who has played most of the games in the series.
I'd be super interested in swimming controls the use the stick to move along the X/Z axis, and the remote to control Y axis movement (or at least 'tilt').
No need to overanalyse the issue, "practice" is doing all the talking now. Other users i have seen playing have issues swiming in tight spaces and efficiently changing directions to grab an object, for example.
The reason they are forced it's because controlling swiming by motion is not adding any improvement to the traditional control stick method. A method that people are familiar with and they still use to move their character on ground. So way detach from that logic when you are in water? The reason the complains are less for flying its because no issues araise because of the huge open space where pin point acuracy isn't required, save for maybe 2 times in the hole game.
The swim controlling method contrast a lot with the sword controls, because in this case it adds something to the game and player experience. So no, my opinion of how the swiming is handled doesn't arise from some "Bias" as you put it.
No need to overanalyse the issue, "practice" is doing all the talking now. Other users i have seen playing have issues swiming in tight spaces and efficiently changing directions to grab an object, for example.
The reason they are forced it's because controlling swiming by motion is not adding any improvement to the traditional control stick method. A method that people are familiar with and they still use to move their character on ground. So way detach from that logic when you are in water? The reason the complains are less for flying its because no issues araise because of the huge open space where pin point acuracy isn't required, save for maybe 2 times in the hole game.
The swim controlling method contrast a lot with the sword controls, because in this case it adds something to the game and player experience. So no, my opinion of how the swiming is handled doesn't arise from some "Bias" as you put it.
I always liked how Endless Ocean dealt with swimming controls and was very glad when Zelda SS adopted the same input. It reminded me of the Zora swimming in MM.
No need to overanalyse the issue, "practice" is doing all the talking now. Other users i have seen playing have issues swiming in tight spaces and efficiently changing directions to grab an object, for example.
The reason they are forced it's because controlling swiming by motion is not adding any improvement to the traditional control stick method. A method that people are familiar with and they still use to move their character on ground. So way detach from that logic when you are in water? The reason the complains are less for flying its because no issues araise because of the huge open space where pin point acuracy isn't required, save for maybe 2 times in the hole game.
The swim controlling method contrast a lot with the sword controls, because in this case it adds something to the game and player experience. So no, my opinion of how the swiming is handled doesn't arise from some "Bias" as you put it.
So finally I get out of the boring-as-fuck Skyloft and now Fi won't leave me alone. I don't need everything described to me, Nintendo.
Between this and SM3DL, they're obviously getting worse at managing their demographics. They're trying to ease casuals into their games, but are alienating many people in the process. Why can't they have 'I AM NEW TO ZELDA', 'I AM A ZELDA PRO' option like so many games do these days?
I don't get how SM3DL would alienate anyone. Sure the early levels are easy as hell, but still enjoyable and there is also NO annoying tutorials, no bullshit cinematic intro or dialogue. Zelda could really learn a lot from that game.
My deal with the swimming is that it doesn't make a lot of sense in the context. You still use the analog stick to run, so controlling Link's movement with only the "hands" half of the controller is stupid.
That's a 50/50 right there my friend. If you looked at the review thread when the "critical" reviews landed you would have think otherwise. What you are seeing here is the "fanatic" resignation, the game has undeniable flaws, so acceptance is what remains.
Plus the hype levels subsided quire rapidly for a Zelda game. That's unusual, probably the effect of the other high profile releases in such a small time frame.
But in the review thread?... Oh boy! Rampant intolerance was the norm.
Probably the worst threads on GAF are the review ones because it contains 90% fanboys who haven't even played the game in question yet. I avoid them like the plague.
My deal with the swimming is that it doesn't make a lot of sense in the context. You still use the analog stick to run, so controlling Link's movement with only the "hands" half of the controller is stupid.
Again, you are controlling link in a 3D space rather than a 2D one. So flying/swimming actually feels a tad more natural than analogue controls, but yeah they should have used the analogue sticks as an optional control scheme control scheme for both of them as well. Oh well.
Oh and if they decide to make the next Zelda motion based as well, please god don't make running related to motion controls.
In the last dungeon and Im happy to say this is my GOTY and favorite 3d zelda.
I especially love how everything in this game seems so carefully thought out and seems to have a reason for "being". This brought the feeling of 2d zeldas that was somewhat lacking in the 3d itinerations. Its staggering to think how the developers tackled the design of this game. It does so many things, with such a level of polish.
The fights now have a feeling of meaning behind them EVERY time. I keep on finding new ways to defeat old foes. I love the more compact feel of the areas and the uniqueness each one presents. Where in Twilight Princess I was tugging along to see new areas as sort of a chore here i am enjoying the one im in and anticipating what will come next. The upgrade system is brilliantly implemented and makes the search of elements so meaningful and distinct. Finding things sometimes using the harp, the whip or the net is so rewarding.
I also love how even the map is a meaningful item this time around in distinct ways to advance through dungeons, or how the items seem to stay relevant all throughout the adventure.
This is the first zelda since MM that had me knowing all of the NPCs too(WW came close).
I completely agree with edge, if this is the new direction zelda is taking, bring on the next 25 years.
PS. chalk me up for one more that absolutely loves the swiming. Finally a zelda with exciting swiming controls (for me.)
When you throw a bomb at deku babas (or whatever they're called in this game), they snap at it. But I haven't seen one actually eat it. Is it possible to do so?
I also think Nintendo has done a pretty clever job of using collectibles as a lure to coax the player toward shortcuts.
You're nearing it, but at this moment (right out of 5th dungeon) you should easily have at least 10 hours more to go. Especially if you want to do some sidequests.
When you throw a bomb at deku babas (or whatever they're called in this game), they snap at it. But I haven't seen one actually eat it. Is it possible to do so?
I've been playing Skyrim which has somehow dehyped what stealth hype I had built up for this game. That and it was a major bummer to preorder this from BestBuy and not even receive it until Friday.. Really? A week almost? Only one of those days was a non postal day, further they actually "shipped" last Friday. Never again on a game I want. Either way, Ps3 issues on Skyrim are pretty heartbreaking, but I received a ton of enjoyment so far, but those same issues nudged me to go ahead and plunge into Skyward Sword and I have to say I'm loving it so far!
I love the motion plus. I love how easy it is to use, but I'm only 1:40 into the game. I just nabbed my shield and I'm about to head off the island. I love Zelda, but Twilight Princess felt like a chore to me. I never finished it, somewhat alarming. I was really turned off by the wolf sequences to the point of exiting the game, either way I didn't really feel nabbed by the opening. I contemplated going back to try again before this released but didn't make it because of the deluge of good software available right now. Suffice to say I've had some kind of grin on my face during this whole intro! I'm not sure why, but I love the graphics, animations, and music. Nothing has come off as awfully bland in this introduction, perhaps because it is a bit of an introduction for me (new mechanics). Not that I expressly need it, but it feels smooth none the less. I like the sword deal too. Taking a break but really looking forward to playing more.
The only questionable thing is the nunchauk, but I've always found it to be less than ideal in responses at times. I didn't like the move of roll to shake, but being that it is replaced with a mechanic that makes more sense for advancement across the playing field I don't mind at all. Looking forward to what this game brings!
Oh, and I love how Groose has a portrait of himself in his room.
Karane rejects Cawlin and instead hooks up with Pipit. You then get 5 crystals from Pipit or Karane. So both choices end up with the same reward and with Cawlin crying in Groose's room.
Karane rejects Cawlin and instead hooks up with Pipit. You then get 5 crystals from Pipit or Karane. So both choices end up with the same reward and with Cawlin crying in Groose's room.
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that the on the fly inventory management in Skyward Sword is merely the precursor to the inventory management on a Wii U Zelda title using the handheld screen on the fly.
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that the on the fly inventory management in Skyward Sword is merely the precursor to the inventory management on a Wii U Zelda title using the handheld screen on the fly.
You realize that putting the inventory on the controller would actually be worse though, right? If you force the player to move his eyes to a completely different device where he doesn't see any of the action anymore, it's not anywhere near as streamlined as if the items can be changed on the fly through a quick swipe into a direction.
SS just uses a radial menu like so many other games now - we've been doing the same thing on WARSOUP and Sein (then we got rid of it again because radial menus feel like shit when using the digipad), the real advantage is that you see the UI on the screen, right there around the character that you're playing - forcing the player to physically move his eyes to another device is worse than drawing the UI elements on the far side of the screen.
Actually, in terms of UI, SS has the best design of any Zelda so far. The flow is never being stopped and everything is only one swipe away. I fail to see how the WiiU controller could deliver an experience that's anywhere close as streamlined as this is.
I actually hated the item changing in SS. Probably the only thing I did, especially when you're surrounded by enemies, down to one heart and need to select a potion and then you need to recenter you're wiimote to be able to actually choose the potion.
A split second glance at hand held screen and good with Hand eye co-ordination I think it would work.
Yeah, I didn't get the harp movements either. And it's really annoying when stupid Fi stops singing even though I'm doing my best swiping around my wiimote.
Did anyone ever have problems playing the Ocarina in OoT? Like, pressing actual buttons? No? Wind Waker? Holding the stick in a direction? No? Motion Controls are awesome for the sword play, but forcing them on every single mechanic that you could think of is a bad idea.
Yesterday I beat the second dungeon and my thoughts on this game are more positive every time I play. That said, I could do without motion controls in combat (well, in general). I've read a lot of people saying this is like Wii Sports gone Zelda, and quite frankly, it's not. Do people really compare bomb throwing to bowling? Really? That said, they're very well done, I just don't think they add a lot to the experience, and sometimes they can detract a bit.
Then there's the text poblem. Why isn't there a button to skip most text? I mean, what about I press a buton and the next text box appears? It's like Nintendo is thinking: maybe someone will press the button, skip the text and be upset. Well, what about those that are upset because the oposite? Then there's this stupid bug where Link grabs an item that I have plenty of in my bag and I'm told what it is, like it's the first time I pick it up. Everytime I turn off the console, it's like Link forgets he's collected them and needs to be reminded. No, seriously, fuck off with the no-patchs policy.
And these are pretty much my only complaints so far (well, and the IQ, which is really bad, but it's a Wii, so you can't really do much better than this, until you're SMG and you unlock some strange magic). I said this before, and I will say it again: Nintendo are the best when it comes down to level design, and this game is probably their best work yet. The levels are so full of win. The pacing is second to none. Every step you take, there's something new, something that will be fun to play.
And money is usefull again. The upgrading system is quite refreshing, but also really interesting. You have to choose from a variety of items before going into adventure. So when you find new upgrades it means you upgrade, but also sidegrade, which in my book is the way to go. Now, if only buying items in the flying store wasn't so painfully slow. Well, buying in general and everything that has to do with text in general.
So, I'm not missing freedom too much. I think Nintendo has learned a lot from SMG. This is not the Zelda I've always dreamed of, not close to it. But it's a game that offers quality in volumes not many can offer. So, in a sense, it's the best Zelda in 3D, even though it refuses to be true to what Zelda has always been. It could well be a different IP, in fact. That said, I don't think it will top what OoT meant to me (I don't think any game can do that by now).
Yeah the linearity of SS and the smallish overworld, make treasure hunting and 100% run quite pleasant actually. I've yet to encounter a fetchquest or a main quest that would feel as bad as triforce hunt in WW or the egghunt in MM...
I actually hated the item changing in SS. Probably the only thing I did, especially when you're surrounded by enemies, down to one heart and need to select a potion and then you need to recenter you're wiimote to be able to actually choose the potion.
A split second glance at hand held screen and good with Hand eye co-ordination I think it would work.
We've been doing a lot of tests on this stuff and in theory that 'split second glance' might be ok, but in practice it just isn't. The problem is that the moment the player has to move his eyes away from what's happening on the screen, things get confusing.
Look at the SotC segment when they try to defeat the very first enemy in the game. The Stamina Meter is pretty similar to what Skyward Sword does. It's rendered in the bottom right of the screen - not very convenient, the player has to move his eyes away from the character he's playing onto that thing. And even those two guys couldn't figure out that this thing is the stamina meter. And it's still on the actual screen, it's just being drawn at the edge of it. Skyward Sword did a much better job here, the Stamina meter is always 'local' - meaning it's always rendered near Link himself, which would've helped tremendously in SotC.
Now put the UI on a completely different device - see how people will adapt to that. If it's a map or something where you don't really need realtime feedback it can definitely work, but putting health, stamina, ammo or other things on a separate device is a perfect way to fuck up the feedback loop.
It'll be very interesting to see what Nintendo does after Skyward Sword. It'll be hard for them forcing players to keep their Motion Plus, unless they ship one with every WiiU (which means they couldn't use the WiiU controller properly) and just drawing the map on the screen kinda sucks as well. Inventory / Item Change... if they pull that kinda shit, it'll be much worse than what SS does. Can't wait to see how they solve that.
best way is to keep the controller horizontal, then make large sweeping motions left and right. if you turn it quickly as you would for say aiming or swinging, it wont work. so yeah, keep it horizontal and broad sweeps!
christ, the bow feels so much better and is a lot more fun to use in tp :'(
it's not just the IR that is like 100 times better than motion plus for aiming, but also the simplicity of how it controls vs. the somewhat convoluted setup in ss.
