Support NeoGAF

[weeaboo]

Wow...I didn't expect it to be THAT bad. 3 hour intro -> shitty dungeon -> 1 hour fetch quest? Sounds like my first day with the game is gonna be a BLAST. :|

lol wat, ~40 minutes here.

 

[oatmeal]

I'm about 4-5 hours in now. I'll be blunt about it:

Keep in mind that for me A Link to the Past is a perfect game. I love it, I play through it about 5-6 times a year.

Right now I'd give Skyward Sword a 6/10. And the saddest part is that it's not even because of the controls, but purely because of the design. A few points:

1) The intro is terrible. Nintendo introduces a few bad guys (that have absolutely no character and are more annoying than the stupid Captain in Phantom Hourglass) that really don't play any role up to this point anymore, but stretch things out til eternity. I really, really, really hoped this time the intro would be more streamlined after the terrible intro of TP, but because Skyward Sword doesn't have fishing right at the start, this one's a little bit better. But just a little bit. It still takes ages for Link to get his tunic and to actually get to the real gameplay. Compare this to the epic rainstorm intro of ALTTP.

2) The design of the first dungeon is terrible. I mean... There are even stones in there that pretty much tell you: "Look, the switches are in the most confusing places, so find them and press them." I walked around for 40 MINUTES only to find the one at the bottom, just because I didn't think it'd be in that spot in terms of architecture / geometry.

The puzzle design... There's a cool puzzle where an eye looks at your sword, so you start rotating your sword, the eye gets confused and falls to the bottom. That's cool, let's move on. Oh, in the next room they REPEAT THE EXACT SAME PUZZLE, only that now there are 2 eyes. Note that the solution to the puzzle hasn't changed, they just simply want you to do it again. Well, okay, I thought, maybe they were a little lazy. But guess what - 5 minutes later, they repeat it AGAIN with 3 eyes. Are you kidding me? This isn't fun, it's just repetitive and mindless, if I ALREADY know what the solution to the problem is, yet you force me to apply that solution tons of times, you're just wasting my time instead of entertaining me.

3) Near the Earth Temple, I naturally can't enter the temple, cause someone has split the key up into 5 parts (it's hilarious how they try to explain that Zelda did run through all those dungeons in terms of story...), so now I'm on a fetch quest. Get this:

I spent over an hour now to find out where all those 5 parts are. I SPENT OVER AN HOUR TRYING TO EVEN GET INTO THE DUNGEON BECAUSE OF A FETCH QUEST. And doing so, I've been running around the SAME TERRAIN over and over again. That dowsing mechanic is complete shit in my book (Nintendo trying to copy Metroid Primes Scanning in a bad way) and Phai gives me bullshit hints all the time ("If you can't throw a bomb, try rolling it!" No shit, you stupid.... fuck, where's Navi?)

And then there are a ton of smaller issues, like:

I bomb up a wall, I find a silver rupee, but my money bag is full - so my 100 rupees are forever gone. WHAT THE HELL. They even fixed this in Twilight Princess, where they popped up a message that said: "Oh, but your money bag is full, so let's put it back for now!".

At this point I've been running around aimlessly so much, I'm not enjoying the puzzles, I still waggle a shit ton (the first hit is always important, then you waggle your ass off) and the pacing as well as the design is just average.

Im sorry, I'm ranting a lot here, it's actually a good game, but for a Zelda game... it just doesn't hold up. It doesn't have the charme the others have and so far there's nothing new. The controls are great, I love how Link moves his arm when I move my Wiimote, but there's just nothing here up tot his point that gets me excited.

Now the question is: I'm not even 5 hours in and this is easily the worst Zelda I've ever played. The controls are great, the core mechanics are solid, but the design of it is just lacking sooooo much. Why is this thing getting such insanely high ratings? Why did people complain about the 7.5 in Gamespot? I don't want to troll (again, I'm a HUUUUUGE Zelda fanboy), but right now I'd give the title a 6. It performs well in all regards, it's just pretty darn shallow in what usually makes a Zelda game great.

I hear that the game is supposed to get a LOT better after 10 hours, so here's hoping. But right now I'm just completely disappointed by the design of it.

Sounds pretty standard, dude. I feel the same way.

As for:

Why did people complain about the 7.5 in Gamespot?

It's because it's Zelda, and they haven't played it yet.

As you said, it's not a BAD game at all. But it's not the next best thing in the Zelda franchise. It's not as genre-bending as games in the past.

 

[thomasmahler]

Not that I disagree completely with your points, but this statement here is a little iffy. One of the markers clearly tells you exactly where this switch is. I didn't find it until I received that hint, and then it was made painfully clear.

Nope, the marker just told you one is at the top and one is at the bottom. But where at the top and bottom? Only when I consulted Fi and asked her for a hint she told me that the switches are ALWAYS close to the door - but it took me around 40 minutes to finally give up and consult Cortana to tell me the solution. This feels like... Like getting a hint in Machinarium. "Sorry game, I'm too stupid to find this, please tell me the solution so that I don't waste any more time."

And I just got very, very frustrated with that 5 parts quest. Is there more of this later on? If they do this shit again, I'm seriously considering putting the game away for a bit, I'm very, very frustrated by how annoying this was.

Especially because of this: There are those red goblins that throw rocks at you. I was spending around an hour running around, trying to find those keyparts and I spent around 25 minutes on this one:

(thanks to the Dowsing I thought I'd have to get that part from this side, which was completely wrong... stupid shit mechanic)

Anyway, when I went back, that red goblin was there again. So he was throwing rocks at me again. BUT I didn't have any ammo for my slingshot left - So I tried 5-10 times to get him with the beetle. Most of the time he just shot the rock at my beetle, so I tried to be smart and maneuver the beetle from the other side in, so I could get him from the back - no luck, the beetles timer runs out before you can do that. So finally I give up and search another 10-15 minutes for slingshot ammo, without success.

I quit in frustration. I come back an hour later and 10 minutes in I find out (after about 4-5 tries where that ass enemy stepped onto my feet when I tried to climb the cliff he's on) that I can ACTUALLY get up there if my timing is perfect.

I mean... maybe I just had a lot of bad luck or was just not seeing things, but so far this is really shitty design in so many ways. It's just isn't as clear and as perfectly designed as other Zelda games are. There's a huge lack of polish, which is insane after knowing how long this game has been in development.

So I hope you guys are right and it gets better after this point (I think the second dungeon, now that I'm finally in it, is already way more fun than the first one), but so far, this is just a mediocre game with great WiiMotionPlus support.

 

[cool_dude_2049]

Sometimes I think some of you are looking too hard to find things to complain about. I haven't played the game, but I get the feeling that most of you are wearing your critical glasses instead of your fun/nostalgia ones. It is a console Zelda after all; you should be enjoying it. You probably wont get another chance until 2015.

 

[jarosh]

By the same measure, it's the game's job to hook and involve the gamer during the first few hours. If Skyward Sword opens up with the worst parts of the game, it deserves some flak.

If you need to have a slow build, at least open up with a bang before you commence the actual build-up (see: Final Fantasy VII, as an example).

i pointed out all those things and heavily criticized the game for it without sounding like a raving lunatic and without repeating some arbitrary rating for added effect...


also:

There are even stones in there that pretty much tell you: "Look, the switches are in the most confusing places, so find them and press them." I walked around for 40 MINUTES only to find the one at the bottom, just because I didn't think it'd be in that spot in terms of architecture / geometry.

...

I spent over an hour now to find out where all those 5 parts are. I SPENT OVER AN HOUR TRYING TO EVEN GET INTO THE DUNGEON BECAUSE OF A FETCH QUEST. And doing so, I've been running around the SAME TERRAIN over and over again. That dowsing mechanic is complete shit in my book (Nintendo trying to copy Metroid Primes Scanning in a bad way) and Phai gives me bullshit hints all the time ("If you can't throw a bomb, try rolling it!" No shit, you stupid.... fuck, where's Navi?)

you are the very REASON we have FI and DOWSING. thanks a bunch.

edit: if you couldn't find those

Spoiler

key pieces

in under an hour, not even with the help of fi and dowsing, then i REALLY have to wonder how you ever managed to play any of the previous zelda games. oh and spoiler tag your shit ffs. the game's not even out in any region officially.

 

[Gregorn]

The sound the beetle makes when it hits a wall, is that the same sound as Deku Scrubs from OoT/MM?

 

[Kard8p3]

There is is. http://www.officialnintendomagazine...-is-the-first-zelda-game-for-everyone-aonuma/



So yes, yes the game is going to treat you like you never touched a game in your life. BUT FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, NINTENDO, add a option to turn it off! OP-TIONS!

I just think it's strange because I was 4 when I played A Link to the Past and I didn't need tutorials to learn how to play. I was 8 or 9 when I played Ocarina and even though it had some tutorials it wasn't too concerned with holding your hand and I handled that fine. I think Nintendo might be underestimating the children.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Nope, the marker just told you one is at the top and one is at the bottom. But where at the top and bottom? Only when I consulted Fi and asked her for a hint she told me that the switches are ALWAYS close to the door - but it took me around 40 minutes to finally give up and consult Cortana to tell me the solution. This feels like... Like getting a hint in Machinarium. "Sorry game, I'm too stupid to find this, please tell me the solution so that I don't waste any more time."

You can't be fucking serious. There are like 3 doors in the same room, one you just came through and the other is out of question because there's a lock. Gee, where could it be.

 

[Refreshment.01]

How far are you into the game? Dungeon 4 to 6 had pretty much no handholding when I played them.

Don't get me wrong, there are some good puzzles, they fall in the same level as TP in difficulty from my perspective. What i mean about the hand holding is that applies to all the aspects of the game like constantly explaining mechanics, controls and options available to you. Take for example the warp points, the companion always repeats how you can use warp points when entering a region.

Dungeons, i don't remember the numbers. But you always have the map to spoil some of the difficulty and in one of the latter ones there are signs that also spoil the puzzle. Don't want to get into specifics.

There's unfortunately a reason for that. Nintendo wanted Skyward Sword to be playable by 5 years old (I think it comes from one of the last 2 Iwata Asks of the game).

But Nintendo is too... "old school" for a lack of a better word, to add an option to turn all those hints and Fi off.

I agree with this... that's my main criticism, is more work to put all those fail saves for the player than put in an option to turn then off, yet Nintendo trolled some of us

 

[fernoca]

Sorry, nothing personal... but this it seems to be quite true..

you are the very REASON we have FI and DOWSING. thanks a bunch.

That red goblin thing kinda confirms it too.

 

[Feep]

Nope, the marker just told you one is at the top and one is at the bottom. But where at the top and bottom? Only when I consulted Fi and asked her for a hint she told me that the switches are ALWAYS close to the door - but it took me around 40 minutes to finally give up and consult Cortana to tell me the solution. This feels like... Like getting a hint in Machinarium. "Sorry game, I'm too stupid to find this, please tell me the solution so that I don't waste any more time."

I mean, look, this is largely a puzzle game. Let's examine.

1)

Spoiler

Switches are always close to doors.

2)

Spoiler

One switch was in plain sight, above the door.

3)

Spoiler

You received a hint that one switch was above, and one switch was below.

4)

Spoiler

There is another door.

5)

Spoiler

Where is the second switch?

I mean...I'm sorry. But come on.

 

[Kifimbo]

More stuff.

You should stop and sell the game. It's obviously harder after the first dungeon, so you are going to be more upset later on if you are spending so much time of easy tasks. Or buy the official guide or something.

That red goblin thing kinda confirms it too.

No shit. Jeez.

 

[butter_stick]

I struggled to find the switch he did too, because a clue in the game says one switch is above, one is below. In rreteospect it was talking about the doors, but after reading that I went through a hole beneath the rock with the clue and hit a switch. So I assumed the next switch I wanted would be higher up.

It's not bad design as such, but I did spend far too long looking for a stupid switch. I felt misled

 

[TheExodu5]

Looks like I might be able to score a copy today, by virtue of a friend who recently got a job at an undiscloved location. I have to change my motherboard in my PC tonight, so depending on how that goes, I might try to get this up and running in Dolphin, provided I can get my copy.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Don't get me wrong, there are some good puzzles, they fall in the same level as TP in from my perspective. What i mean about the hand holding is that applies to all the aspects of the game like constantly explaining mechanics, controls and options available to you. Take for example the warp points, the companion always repeats how you can use warp points when entering a region.

Dungeons, i don't remember the numbers. But you always have the map to spoil some of the difficulty and in one of the latter ones there are signs that also spoil the puzzle. Don't want to get into specifics.

Happened in the first few hours to me. I'm not trying to paint you as a liar or something but I swear I had a completely opposite experience. The only thing that I read several times over was the collectables description which bugged (hahaha..uh...ha.) me to no end.

 

[jarosh]

Anyway, when I went back, that red goblin was there again. So he was throwing rocks at me again. BUT I didn't have any ammo for my slingshot left - So I tried 5-10 times to get him with the beetle. Most of the time he just shot the rock at my beetle, so I tried to be smart and maneuver the beetle from the other side in, so I could get him from the back - no luck, the beetles timer runs out before you can do that. So finally I give up and search another 10-15 minutes for slingshot ammo, without success.

dude, seriously? this is a real complaint? are you for real now? maybe this isn't the right game for you after all. have you considered that? maybe try peggle, i dunno.

 

[Davey Cakes]

I haven't played the game, but what's with the constant disdain for introduction segments? Are people just impatient? I mean, you wait five years for a new Zelda game that's apparently 30+ hours long and yet you don't want to be slowly introduced to the game's unfolding world? Must you be thrust into the action immediately for it to be satisfying? It really must be an instant gratification thing.

 

[The perfect Dark]

Wow this game is so beautiful. I'm now in the first dungeon. The controls are godlike. Love it. And the improvements are also great. Music is stunning

 

[butter_stick]

dude, seriously? this is a real complaint? are you for real now? maybe this isn't the right game for you after all. have you considered that? maybe try peggle, i dunno.

How is that not a valid complaint?

 

[protonion]

Well. Between certain reviews, mixed impressions and some of the last posts, my excitement is gone...
I don't mind though. Maybe after this the game will pleasantly surprise me!
I'll have it in a few hours.

 

[thomasmahler]

I struggled to find the switch he did too, because a clue in the game says one switch is above, one is below. In rreteospect it was talking about the doors, but after reading that I went through a hole beneath the rock with the clue and hit a switch. So I assumed the next switch I wanted would be higher up.

It's not bad design as such, but I did spend far too long looking for a stupid switch. I felt misled

That was exactly my problem. I got to that plate right after I hit the switch at the bottom of that one room, where it fills the room with water, so the next one has to be somewhere at the top, right? Nope, it's in a place I didn't even think I could get to.

You know, normally as a designer you'd put a light there or something that'd not be completely obvious, but would just give the player a hint that there might be something interesting in that area. There's nothing like that there, I felt like a stupid idiot after consulting Fi and double checking to find the switch where it actually was.

I'm probably a little too blunt since people want to hype themselves up reading Zelda threads, I'm just pretty freaking disillusioned right now by how much I didn't enjoy it so far.

Again, to me, A Link to the Past is pretty much a perfect game. The intro still gives me goosebumps, the puzzle design is great, the items are awesome and I just absolutely adore that game - but Skyward right now isn't even anywhere in that ballpark (which is ok, since I compare it to one of the best games ever, but if a Zelda game is 'just' very good, then something's wrong).

And yes, again, I only played like 5 hours, I'm near the end of the second dungeon ffs, but this is what I felt so far. And yes, when I wrote this rant I was fucking frustrated over how much I'm failing to see stuff here, that's exactly why I want to know if others feel the same and it seems like they do.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Some Wal-Marts are officially selling the game, just called to check. You might have better luck with Sam's Club or even Costco.

Does anyone know if the bundled game has a different SKU and is sealed? I kind of want to just buy this one, keep my Amazon wiimote bundle, and then return the Amazon one to Wal-Mart. It's the same game, so there shouldn't be anything wrong with that, they're not paying back any money I didn't give them.

But if it's not plastic wrapped or rings up differently, that plan probably wouldn't work.

 

[Amir0x]

I haven't played the game, but what's with the constant disdain for introduction segments? Are people just impatient? I mean, you wait five years for a new Zelda game that's apparently 30+ hours long and yet you don't want to be slowly introduced to the game's unfolding world? Must you be thrust into the action immediately for it to be satisfying? It really must be an instant gratification thing.

I can see disdain for prolonged tutorial segments, because forced tutorials suck ass. A game should always naturally allow for there to be a way to avoid lame tutorial segments if possible. It becomes a nuisance when it's 2 hours long.


That said, I tend to like the prolonged introduction of a game like Twilight Princess (or Skyward Sword, I assume, if it's similar) in that it's a nice 'calm before the storm' type event, where you're getting acclimated to the world and its inhabitants and get a feel for it and a care for it. Then the context for what you have to do feels better. But if it is a 2 hour long tutorial, it is pretty lame.

 

[thomasmahler]

dude, seriously? this is a real complaint? are you for real now? maybe this isn't the right game for you after all. have you considered that? maybe try peggle, i dunno.

And who pissed into your cornflakes? I completed every Zelda so far, I speedrun A Link to the Past a few times each year. Have you even played Skyward yet?

I'm just posting my experience so far - that doesn't necessarily mean you'll feel the same, so seriously, dude, chill.

 

[RPGCrazied]

The only thing that I'm hearing that is bothering me is Fi. I wanted her to be in the story somehow.

All the other things don't bother me one bit. I like fetch quests, I mean, I play MMO's after all. TP's intro was a snooze fest, but its my most liked Zelda game. But the world was way to big, felt kinda barren. I think Skyward Sword has a chance to beat TP, or just equally tie it.

 

[fernoca]

How is that not a valid complaint?

Because he:
-Running out of ammo for the slingshot
-Not been able to hit him with the beetle
-Realizing 15 minutes later that he can get up there, if he times it right

..is not the game's fault.
If the red goblins hits the beetle with the rock..3 times, why try..10 times? 15 minutes looking for ammo for the slingshot? The red goblins

Spoiler

turn their back

when they pick up rocks to throw, *hint* that's a good time to get up there and hit them! (But he realized this, 1 hour and 10 minutes after taking a break, after the 15 minutes of looking for ammo and the 10 times with the beetle)

 

[Nocturnowl]

If I were to make one complaint so far it's how Link's own movement can make some simple tasks more annoying than they should be and motion control isn't even the problem here...
- Jumping onto a rope, wish they gave Link a bit more leeway for grabbing onto a rope from a jump, if you're slightly off the mark you're likely to miss
- Positioning a bomb throw or bomb roll, the markers help greatly but it can still be a hassle to line link up correctly when aiming for a target.
Though I guess these problems have plagued 3D Zelda games before, in fact they definitely have now I remember throwing bombs into the spinning Goron statue in OoT and the rope swinging stuff with Niko in Wind Waker.

 

[Amir0x]

And who pissed into your cornflakes? I completed every Zelda so far, I speedrun A Link to the Past a few times each year. Have you even played Skyward yet?

I'm just posting my experience so far - that doesn't necessarily mean you'll feel the same, so seriously, dude, chill.

LOL

jarosh has only posted the most in-depth and nuanced analysis of Skyward Sword to date - he's probably beat it even:

some spoiler-free thoughts on the combat:

i feel that during combat, motion controls and motion plus in particular don't add as much as people might have expected or wished for. i certainly wouldn't call any of it "revolutionary". but then, zelda has never been about a deep and complex combat system and this doesn't change with skyward sword. the necessity of having to slash at the right angle with certain enemy types turned out to be a superficial addition at best for me. more interesting are the defense/offense mechanics of the shield and the strategic back and forth between sword and shield. but this isn't a requirement nearly often enough.

reviewers have mentioned the slower combat and many consider this to be a positive or simply don't mind because it is a part of seemingly "deeper combat mechanics". but to me, since i'm not really getting any more satisfaction out of the combat than i would have in twilight princess, this is a negative factor, one that isn't outweighed by the supposedly newly gained strategic depth.

the design, choreography and timing of the fights in particular and the enemy encounters as a whole haven't changed much from earlier 3d zelda games. they still occur, for the most part, in very much the same way they have in twilight princess. and it's clear to me that this design was never intended for the kind of slower, more methodical approach to combat that we're seeing in skyward sword now. this is particularly evident once you're surrounded by lesser enemies that all require correctly angled slashes. there is no good system in place to dispatch with a vicious crowd of enemies methodically or even slolwly and with precision, even though the mechanics of the swordplay are meant to be employed in just such a fashion. so despite the precision of the sword controls, the very mechanics of the individual fights remain both rigid (much like the enemy a.i.) and imprecise. clearly these enemies move and behave in a way that begs for a more old-fashioned approach. and there's a disconnect here that disrupts the flow of adventuring.

and maybe this dichotomy, this contrast of old and new design is what some reviewers have been trying to express when they talk about the strange disconnect between two opposing design philosophies and their manifestations as something that always kind of wants to be fresh and new but is still held back by old conventions and quirks that now seem to clash with the bolder, newer ideas. i can even sort of understand the seemingly odd commentary (i believe it was egm's?) regarding the combat in twilight princess: something about how the motion controls felt better or were easier or more straightforward and therefore "better" in that game. they just weren't in the way of adventuring, exploring, puzzle solving, because they didn't require much time OR thought OR precision.

maybe skyward sword would have been a better game overall if they'd decided to either abandon all of those old conventions or stick with them and all their implications and quirks. i can't say for sure. at least in terms of combat and motion controls, being only "halfway there" seems to have done the game a disservice. the combat isn't deeper or more satisfying; what was a means to an end in previous 3d zelda games has now become a minor nuisance.

i'm gonna respond to some of the things you mentioned and then go into some more general impressions... as usual, spoiler-free.

about the linearity: the reason why this sticks out so much probably has to do with three things:

1) the incessant handholding, guiding and frequent re-iteration of obvious concepts by fi, often immediately after another character just explained the same thing in great detail. frequently this is about your next task. example: some character: "maybe there's something interesting on top of that tree!", fi appears: "master! blah blah blah! i have analyzed the situation! blah blah blah! i have determined the following things blah blah blah i can now say with 85% probabality that your next task is up on that tree! blah blah blah! this tree is very dangerous! are you sure you are ready? blah blah blah! wait! i sense that there's something very evil and dangerous behind this giant boss door! i am 90% sure it is a boss. bosses are very dangerous! are you ready to fight this boss? blah blah blah."... where was i? oh yeah:

2) dowsing. this mechanic is often forced on you in an obnoxious way. but it is unnecessary 90% of the time. we used to just explore in previous zelda games. remember? if you rely on dowsing, a big chunk of the exploration will be taken away from you. my advice: ignore it. it will be forced on you over and over. fi will remind you, the dowsing symbol will flash on screen and an alert sound will go off and won't stop until you go into dowsing mode and then cancel.

3) the fractured and isolated nature of the pre-dungeon segments. yes, some of them are more open and quite big even (in fact, sometimes these areas are more elaborate and longer than the actual dungeon!), but i certainly wouldn't call any of what you're doing in them "free exploration". the forest, for example, felt too boxy and small to me. it isn't so much the size of the maps, but the design of them. you always move from point a to point b. sure, sometimes you have to find a handful of things and they're scattered around a somewhat bigger area. and, lo and behold, those are definitely the coolest parts during those segments. once again though, as soon as something ISN'T just "point a to point b" you will get lots of WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE hints and the game will, well, "strongly encourage" you to use dowsing. i can't say there's a lot in this game that fits my definition of "exploration".

one more thing about fi: sure, we could just ignore her and not care about her. navi was annoying too, and we managed. the problem with fi is twofold: not only are we coming from twilight princess, which had midna, an interesting character with actual depth, shrouded in mystery, who also played an important role in the game and even took part in the gameplay occasionally, but fi is also TREATED and implented like midna, not like navi. she clearly is supposed to be the new midna and she just interrupts the game at every opportunity. but she hardly has anything interesting to say and has no gameplay relevance. in fact, she frequently re-iterates stuff you already know instead, usually in a much too long-winded fashion.


god, i sound so negative. i know! you guys probably think i HATE the game or something. but i like it! a lot! really! i just wouldn't say it's a big step forward for the franchise or anything. maybe in a few ways, but in some imporant ones it isn't. it might be a minor step back instead. still, it's a good game. maybe great even. but i'll have to finish it first to say for sure. so here are some more positive notes:

- the third dungeon is really the first great dungeon. loved it. lots of interesting ideas and puzzles.
- there's lots of interesting content and puzzles in the pre-dungeon areas.
- difficulty: skyward sword is definitely harder than both twilight princess and oot. i never died in tp, but have died several times in ss already. (as a rule, i never use potions or fairies though.)
- without spoiling anything: most of the new items are TONS of fun and definitely get plenty of use outside of the dungeons! big plus.
- motion controls SHINE with pretty much everything that isn't sword fighting. again, not gonna spoil anything, but the items that use motion plus are all great fun to use and usually work flawlessly.
- about the music: while some of the dungeon themes are very repetitive and annoying (almost) everything outside of the dungeons is amazing and skyloft and the different sky themes are all fantastic.
- i find those later trials (won't mention them by name) that some reviewers have complained about quite an interesting and enjoyable change of pace and have had no problems with them.
- i dig the musical instrument even though it can be a bit finnicky. maybe i just like the tunes that now sound so much better and more elaborate than in any previous zelda game
- most of the boss fights are great and quite unique mechanically, just don't expect them to be super hard (they're DEFINITELY harder than the ones in tp though).

No offense but his analysis is for more in-depth and well thought out than your own, even though I appreciate your opinion and it has given me more to ruminate on as I wait for my own copy.

 

[kiryogi]

Something that seemed killer to me last night was spending at least half an hour on the fetch quest before

Spoiler

the water temple. I recombed every single room in the 1st dungeon until I realized to swim underneath for the key . . .

 

[thomasmahler]

But if it is a 2 hour long tutorial, it is pretty lame.

It's not that, even though they do force you to learn all those mechanics as you did in all 3d Zeldas.

What I didn't enjoy was how long it took and that it just felt like a Soap Opera between Zelda and Link where she tried to kiss him 3 times and all that shit.

In A Link to the Past you wake up while there's a rainstorm going on outside, you grab a Lamp, you leave the house, you run through the rainstorm trying to find a secret entrance near the castle, you find your uncle wounded on the ground... Holy shit, man, that's an intro, that makes me want to go out on an adventure.

In Skyward Sword a few bullies kidnapped your bird.

See what I'm saying?

The whole soap opera shit just ticks me off a bit since I'm not fond of bad dialogue. If you're not into story, just don't write story, that's ok. A Link to the Past is doing well without it. But if you DO write bad dialogue then it's kind of a drag.

 

[Davey Cakes]

I'm not caught up in too much hype, I don't have a need to clear out my backlog, and I'm just very selective about my game purchases. Zelda is a gaming event for me, so I'm going to really savor and enjoy it without being too concerned about long introductions and/or tutorials. I'm going to go with the flow.

 

[SoulPlaya]

I just got past the first dungeon, and thus far, it's pretty disappointing, to be honest. I'm happy to report that there are plenty of save points, but the first dungeon's design was terrible, the intro was boring, and controls can be a bit unresponsive.

Of course, this is probably going to change later.

 

[oatmeal]

I mean, look, this is largely a puzzle game. Let's examine.

1)

Spoiler

Switches are always close to doors.

2)

Spoiler

One switch was in plain sight, above the door.

3)

Spoiler

You received a hint that one switch was above, and one switch was below.

4)

Spoiler

There is another door.

5)

Spoiler

Where is the second switch?

I mean...I'm sorry. But come on.

I had trouble here too. The tablet with that hint is in a room that has a crawl space down low...with a switch. So I assumed that the other one would be in the same room.

 

[Amir0x]

It's not that, even though they do force you to learn all those mechanics as you did in all 3d Zeldas.

What I didn't enjoy was how long it took and that it just felt like a Soap Opera between Zelda and Link where she tried to kiss him 3 times and all that shit.

In A Link to the Past you wake up while there's a rainstorm going on outside, you grab a Lamp, you leave the house, you run through the rainstorm trying to find a secret entrance near the castle, you find your uncle wounded on the ground... Holy shit, man, that's an intro, that wants me to go out on an adventure.

In Skyward Sword a few bullies kidnapped your bird.

See what I'm saying?

The whole soap opera shit just ticks me off a bit since I'm not fond of bad dialogue. If you're not into story, just don't write story, that's ok. A Link to the Past is doing well without it. But if you DO write bad dialogue then it's kind of a drag.

I do see what you're saying. You're basically posting verbatim my game philosophy - I'm better than whatever shit player Nintendo has in mind when they're designing these tutorials, and old school games like Link to the Past have a very direct 'trial by fire' nature that allows a more natural skill evolution. It doesn't pussify gamers.

Unfortunately since the DS and Wii, Nintendo has made something of a business out of pussifying gamers. Hopefully with Wii U they change it up.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It's not that, even though they do force you to learn all those mechanics as you did in all 3d Zeldas.

What I didn't enjoy was how long it took and that it just felt like a Soap Opera between Zelda and Link where she tried to kiss him 3 times and all that shit.

In A Link to the Past you wake up while there's a rainstorm going on outside, you grab a Lamp, you leave the house, you run through the rainstorm trying to find a secret entrance near the castle, you find your uncle wounded on the ground... Holy shit, man, that's an intro, that makes me want to go out on an adventure.

In Skyward Sword a few bullies kidnapped your bird.

See what I'm saying?

The whole soap opera shit just ticks me off a bit since I'm not fond of bad dialogue. If you're not into story, just don't write story, that's ok. A Link to the Past is doing well without it. But if you DO write bad dialogue then it's kind of a drag.

I like how your ALttP description sounds more like a soap opera than anything else.

 

[ace3skoot]

second dungeon this game just keeps getting better the art, music and sword play have alll exceeded my expectations, the intro isnt even close to as bad as TP i think you need to replay TP lots of rose tinted glasses ahoy.

alot of you just seem too

a) suck at puzzels

b) dont explore every nook and cranny, exploration is really what all zelda games are about

people seem confuse their inability to take a moment and observe the surroundings and see where thet havent been yet with bad game design, so far everything has been elegant and straight forward if not slighty easy.

Its like its cool to hate on this game...its a little sad, im sure the game has some flaws like any game ever created and it will grind some people up the wrong way but so far its a complete joy, and the controls have been really sharp, recallibrating is practically instant its not even a chore.

I think the linerity and spoon feeding of AAA titles over the last few years have killed peoples brain cells

 

[apana]

If I had a good time with Epic Mickey I'm sure I can pretty much withstand the probably microscopic flaws of this game and have a good time with it.

 

[butter_stick]

I had trouble here too. The tablet with that hint is in a room that has a crawl space down low...with a switch. So I assumed that the other one would be in the same room.

This this.

I can report the bosses in this game are still amazing, as is every dungeon post 2.

 

[SCReuter]

Some Wal-Marts are officially selling the game, just called to check. You might have better luck with Sam's Club or even Costco.

Does anyone know if the bundled game has a different SKU and is sealed? I kind of want to just buy this one, keep my Amazon wiimote bundle, and then return the Amazon one to Wal-Mart. It's the same game, so there shouldn't be anything wrong with that, they're not paying back any money I didn't give them.

But if it's not plastic wrapped or rings up differently, that plan probably wouldn't work.

Wait, is Walmart not selling the bundle in-store?

 

[Amir0x]

If I had a good time with Epic Mickey I'm sure I can pretty much withstand the probably microscopic flaws of this game and have a good time with it.

Heh I like that this is basically an 'if I can lower my standards enough to play X, I'm sure my standards are low enough to enjoy Y!' post

nothing wrong with that if that's the way you approach your games but it is amusing to me

 

[EmCeeGramr]

alot of you just seem too

a) suck at puzzels

I think the linerity and spoon feeding of AAA titles over the last few years have killed peoples brain cells

I didn't think I could hate anything more than Yoshichan's posting in the review thread but here we are.

 

[Glix]

I do see what you're saying. You're basically posting verbatim my game philosophy - I'm better than whatever shit player Nintendo has in mind when they're designing these tutorials, and old school games like Link to the Past have a very direct 'trial by fire' nature that allows a more natural skill evolution. It doesn't pussify gamers.

Unfortunately since the DS and Wii, Nintendo has made something of a business out of pussifying gamers. Hopefully with Wii U they change it up.

I hear ya, but since they implemented their Super Guide/Golden Monkey philosophy its freaking awesome. The crutches are there for the people that want it, and it gives them the ability to make shit HARD, cuz the morons can just cheat.

 

[BY2K]

I just think it's strange because I was 4 when I played A Link to the Past and I didn't need tutorials to learn how to play. I was 8 or 9 when I played Ocarina and even though it had some tutorials it wasn't too concerned with holding your hand and I handled that fine. I think Nintendo might be underestimating the children.

Can't relate to that. I was 10 when I played ALTTP for the first time. I had to abandon the game at one point because I was stuck at the Skull Forest Dungeon (did every other dungeons before it).

It wasn't until my cousin called and told me I had to use the Fire Rod on the big skull thing that I could advance. I felt so fucking stupid. I never knew you could interact with the damn thing using the Fire Rod.

 

[AlexSmash]

Sounds pretty standard, dude. I feel the same way.

As for:

Why did people complain about the 7.5 in Gamespot?

It's because it's Zelda, and they haven't played it yet.

As you said, it's not a BAD game at all. But it's not the next best thing in the Zelda franchise. It's not as genre-bending as games in the past.

the last genre beding zelda is like 15 years ago

if you want a genre bending game play wiis ports or call of duty mw etc

 

[Hero]

Guys, I ordered from Amazon with one day delivery, did anyone else do the same? If so, since it's releasing on a Sunday, will we not get it until Monday?

 

[Amir0x]

I hear ya, but since they implemented their Super Guide/Golden Monkey philosophy its freaking awesome. The crutches are there for the people that want it, and it gives them the ability to make shit HARD, cuz the morons can just cheat.

Yeah, I don't agree one iota. Apparently it was supposed to give them the ability to make shit hard, but it has barely done that at all. All it does is make shit only slightly less easy, but with the ability to allow shit gamers to stay shitty.

No compromises. Just force them to learn or let them suck ass and be excluded. Who the fuck cares about people who lack such motivation that they can't even be arsed to get better at a simple task?

Unless they're literally gimped and have, like, one hand or something, then there's no requirement for that. During the NES era we were thrown hard game after infuriatingly hard game, and most kids kept coming back for more. Now a days there's this desire to hold their cock for them as they piss that essentially has done shit for anyone but make these games worse.

And in any event, I'm not sure what the super guide philosophy has to do here - if you reload a save you have to sit there reading the item descriptions again, you're constantly being force fed hints regardless. It's just Nintendo applying their "we must not offend any gamer, lest they be stuck for more than 2 seconds and they call the Nintendo hotline angry at their shitty, inbred and inherently inferior nature!"

 

[oatmeal]

the last genre beding zelda is like 15 years ago

if you want a genre bending game play wiis ports or call of duty mw etc

You're right. I didn't mean bending, I wrote that wrong.

I meant more like genre-defining. This game doesn't set a new standard.

 

[AdamBot]

Some Wal-Marts are officially selling the game, just called to check. You might have better luck with Sam's Club or even Costco.

Dayamn!! I need to check a couple Wal-Marts on my way home from work!!

 

[thomasmahler]

If I had a good time with Epic Mickey I'm sure I can pretty much withstand the probably microscopic flaws of this game and have a good time with it.

Again, I probably sounded pretty damn negative, but I AM comparing this game to some of the best games ever created. Nobody is saying that Skyward is a bad game - far from it. But with a Zelda game there's a certain expectation and if that's not hit within the first few hours, you kinda feel like there's something fishy going on.

Regarding the controls: Is this just because I'm only in the second dungeon or does really only the first hit ever matter? Like, if the enemy holds the sword to the right, I have to hit him from the left, but then I waggle my balls off. This has been true for pretty much enemy so far, does this stay that way or will combat get better over time?

 

[jarosh]

And who pissed into your cornflakes? I completed every Zelda so far, I speedrun A Link to the Past a few times each year. Have you even played Skyward yet?

I'm just posting my experience so far - that doesn't necessarily mean you'll feel the same, so seriously, dude, chill.

yes, i have played it. for 40 hours.

anyway, i'm sorry if i was a little harsh there. it's just hard to understand how someone could get stuck on these basic fetch quests for hours despite the game's HEAVY and obnoxious handholding. how are you gonna manage later on when the game throws more difficult and elaborate puzzles and quests at you? i mean, i got the items from that quest in a few minutes, without dowsing and without fi's help. i honestly never once got stuck in the game or was confused about where i had to go or what i had to do. the game sadly spells out pretty much everything for you. oot for example never gives you such explicit instructions for anything; it's much easier to get stuck in that game. take the seemingly "simple" process of acquiring epona, which is almost mindblowingly obscure by today's standards (take that for whatever it's worth) and would never be designed like that in a game like skyward sword.