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The Order 1886 Review Thread

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C

cool_dude

Banned
RAD was lazy and/or ran out of time. Setpieces and corridors were being reused and even boss battles. They deliberately were trying to make their game longer with qtes, cutscenes, and repetition.
 
A

ArkkAngel007

Member
orthodoxy1095 said:
Do costs come down as the tech gets better or more widespread? I feel like part of the problem is that with cinematic games is that they chase better and better graphics, racking up more and more costs.
Click to expand...

Depends on what's going on behind the scenes. The more people spending time on that sort of thing while utilizing costly methods and for an extended length of time, the more expensive it will get. Methods and resources was sort of the thing determining the rising costs last gen, and that'll be the primary issue once the foundations (engines, goals) are established.
 
K

KalBalboa

Banned
Cavalier said:
Point out one single game that's a clone of The Order. Same setting. Similar cinematic cutscene : gameplay ratio. Same objectives. Same gameplay. Similar storyline. Similar weapons.

Calling The Order generic is just idiotic at this point.
Click to expand...

It's always easier to be a sideline cynic. It's a big problem with the gaming community.
 
L

L.C.M. Taylon

Banned
But indies are not games

Some people asked AAA games with super graphics in PS4, is there

Srry RAD you deserve these score

Ok, back to play Dust: An Elysian Tail
 
F

freenudemacusers

Member
Cavalier said:
Point out one single game that's a clone of The Order. Same setting. Similar cinematic cutscene : gameplay ratio. Same objectives. Same gameplay. Similar storyline. Similar weapons.

Calling The Order generic is just idiotic at this point.
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well, given the critical response to the order, not sure why anyone would follow their template.
 
M

Mushroomer25

Member
devilsadvocat said:
But the most important thing is.... It's a AAA game that works, functions properly, locked 30fps, beautiful graphics


Something you can't say for the holiday 2014 games that scored higher
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This is like judging a film entirely by the objective quality of every shot, and any visual effects used - but ignoring every aspect of script, pacing, or acting preformance.

Plenty of bad games run smoothly and look good. But if they're no fun to play, and are over so quick - what's the point?
 
J

Jito

Banned
Sad thing is I love cinematic, linear, story driven games, just sounds like this one hasn't got the gameplay to fill out the actual game. Oh well, downloading now, I'll probably get some enjoyment out of it but it's not what I as hoping for when it was announced. I was expecting Sony Gears of War set in alternate London.
 
K

Kowalski

Banned
120759.gif


THE MELTDOWN

:)
 
K

Korten

Banned
Axass said:
I'm sure you meant the gaming industry, otherwise your post makes little sense.

It's the gaming industry that keeps pushing out broken games and cinematic experiences, experiences so true to the word cinematic that they'll last around 2 hours soon.
Click to expand...

My point still stands, the gaming community is getting so bad it probably doesn't deserve to get non-broken releases. When gamers rally against types of games they don't want. Then I have no faith in the gaming community. Their selfish and vile.
 
F

Floridian

Member
Ze_Pershing said:
It's not joy, but hope that the fail game will make the developer look back at the game and notice that just looks alone will not net you $60 bucks. As gamers we have expectations, you know? We're not all sheep.
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Some people who have played it already had their expectations met and could have thought it was worth $60. There's literally been some past comments mentioning they would be happy if this game gets bad scores.
 
O

Opiate

Member
orthodoxy1095 said:
It's actually really selfish because contrary to what others keep saying, I think there is a market for these kinds of games. Not everyone is a hardcore gamer who wants to chase scores or play mechanically deep games. Cinematic games have a "lighter" touch could be part of expanding the audience of gaming in general. And that would be a great thing.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, it's part of expanding gaming to a wider variety of people with different tastes.

I think the first sign of resistance to this concept came with the Wii, and later with iOS, and now with other styles of games including "cinematic" ones. On the 1up show, one of the main cast of the show, Ryan O'Donnel, had a very negative reaction to the Wii from it's inception. He didn't just not prefer the system -- that's fine -- he expressed extreme hostility to the system's existence. In one of the episodes (the link was here, but it's now taken down as 1up no longer exists), he said this, and I quote:

"I'm a hardcore gamer. I don't care about the non-hardcore gamers. I used to think I did, I used to think I wanted to expand the market, but Nintendo has proved to me that that's not what I want. I want game companies to be making games for me in the genres that I like."

I think this sentiment is more common than people like to admit: people just want the entire industry to focus on them, and become hostile to the notion that anyone should make games that don't happen to appeal to them. O'Donnel's quote applied to the Wii, but it could equally apply here: some people don't like cinematic games, and want all cinematic games to fail so that the entire industry is focused on them.
 
T

TheLostBigBoss

Banned
Five years for this. I really want to be a fly on the wall during the development process, and whats going on right now between RAD and Sony.

RAD knew what they were making, but one must wonder if there was a significant section of the story cut due to production costs if the reviewers are saying that just as it gets good it just "stops".
 
S

Stereogatari

Banned
Divvy said:
It's not surprising as gaffers spent money on the game whereas reviewers do not. It's been proven in psychology that humans will subconsciously value things higher if they are more expensive, as in this study of blind wine tasters. In addition, humans are naturally risk-adverse and so when they spend money on something, they will do all they can to avoid feeling like they wasted their money. It's nothing nefarious or something to be judged, it's just how our brains are programmed. It's called the "sunk-cost fallacy" and here's a great article/podcast about it. So you can see that reviewers and consumers are approaching these games from different perspectives and that actually has a real effect on how much they enjoy the exact same game. It's a pretty interesting topic and probably worth some discussion sometime.
Click to expand...

This is a fantastic point. We often fall into the trap of viewing the fact reviewers get games for free as a negative, as a way that devs/pubs could try and secure good relations and therefore indirectly better scores, but if reviewers had to go out and buy them it might affect their perception.
 
M

Maxim726X

Member
Chû Totoro;152761100 said:
He's not a gamer. His predictions are based (and it's for fun he's saying it himself) on marketing budget and things like that. Not content or quality.
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Still doesn't make much sense. Destiny was marketed to hell and back and his predictions were lower for that game.

Yes, the Order does have some marketing behind it, but as far as I remember it was nothing like Destiny. What gives?
 
F

Future

Member
I wonder if reviewers now lower their scores intentionally to bring the cumulative score down a bit since they know that's what everyone looks at now. No one cares about ign. They care about metacritic
 
T

TheCanisDirus

Member
theDeeDubs said:
It's disappointing to see such a cool atmosphere and setting squandered. I hate to judge a game for what it wasn't setting out to be, but I just can't get excited over a meat and potato shooter nowadays. It would have made one hell of an RPG. I still want to play it just to bask in its graphical glory, but for a short meat and potatoes shooter I'll wait until it hits $20.
Click to expand...

This is what I'm sayin! If they took the setting, general art direction, lore, base story etc. and worked it up as a RPG with an open world or something of the likes with loads of story, side quests, things to explore and find... Hidden bits of information expanding the lore further...

But 3rd person cover shooter on rails.
 
T

Timeaisis

Member
travisbickle said:
It's not about forgetting, it's just not that easy. I think people are getting a bit too blasé about the quality games that are made - it's not that the top rated games had development teams who remembered to make it fun, it's that they tried bloody hard to make it happen.
Click to expand...

You don't have to explain to me about the difficulty of finding fun in creating a game. It's a terribly difficult thing to do. The issue here, is that it seems RAD didn't care to even try. The forgot the step in game development when you have to take a step back and ask yourself "is what we are making actually fun or at least, entertaining?".
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
BruceLeeRoy said:
I do find it surprising that pretty much every gaf reviewer has put this game in a 7-9 range of enjoyment. I guess that actually isn't surprising critics are always a hair lower.
Click to expand...

Post-purchase rationalization.

It's why I have a trusted GAFer list. I am not concerned with posters who simply buy something they were anticipating and then shut off their critical faculties in the analysis. So many people do that instinctively, they anticipate something and then are incapable of actually just admitting all that time they spent hyped for the product was a waste so they go about justifying it in ever more heightened ways. Even if everyone else says it's mediocre, everyone else is seeing it the wrong way. They find less and less flaws, until everyone is nitpicking.

For me, for a GAFer to make my trusted opinion list it works like this... take a game I either love or hate and have expressed myself in detail about. Then, read a poster who disagrees with my position, but goes to length to articulate why in a way that makes sense and is rational. The mark of a good critic is not that you always agree with them, it's that you can respect the merit of their opinion even when you disagree. At least, that's what I've found.

So especially when I see someone willing to take a game they anticipated to task for not being completely up to snuff, I make note of that individual because it means they are less likely to make excuses for a game just because they pre-ordered it and spent the last two years anticipating it.

Problem with lots of people who rush out in excitement to get something is that they spend so much time building it up, posting about how rad it's gonna be on forums, that going back and admitting it's not all it was made out to be is tough for some folk.
 
Q

QaaQer

Member
HellofaMouse said:
as much as the games getting alot of shit right now, i hope rads doing a good job of distinguishing good criticism from the bad, because the atmosphere in this game is one of the best ive seen in a long time (almost rivaling tlou), and id love them to iterate on this with the criticism in mind.
Click to expand...

If they had a decent sized play test, they know this already. Dollars to donuts the delay was caused by poor play testing and/or mock reviews. I wonder if it is a case of them ripping content out to improve that like with Destiny. I'd love to see the original versions of both games.
 
Herbspiceguy

Herbspiceguy

Member
I expected this game to turn out mediocre. I compared it to those 'full motion video' games of the 90's, based on the "gameplay" trailers that were shown; they wowed people with visuals, but delivered bad gameplay.
I did not expect such bad reviews/scores though.
Will be interesting to see how this will do in terms of sales and what that will mean for RAD.
 
O

orthodoxy1095

Banned
ArkkAngel007 said:
Depends on what's going on behind the scenes. The more people spending time on that sort of thing while utilizing costly methods and for an extended length of time, the more expensive it will get. Methods and resources was sort of the thing determining the rising costs last gen, and that'll be the primary issue once the foundations (engines, goals) are established.
Click to expand...
Given that RaD has an engine, I would hope they could devote more resources elsewhere next time. But maybe not.
 
K

Korten

Banned
snowblind said:
This is what I'm sayin! If they took the setting, general art direction, lore, base story etc. and worked it up as a RPG with an open world or something of the likes with loads of story, side quests, things to explore and find... Hidden bits of information expanding the lore further...

But 3rd person cover shooter on rails.
Click to expand...

So basically make it the same games that practically coming out on assembly lines... Cause that's what we need- more open world games.
 
B

BokehKing

Banned
Servbot24 said:
Ugh. Emphasis on performance over design is really disturbing.
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It's a cover based shooter? I like those, I don't care if other games have done it before

It's disturbing that I want my $60 game to work? That I don't have to wait for patch after patch for performance fixes?

That alone makes this game better than other recent AAA games
 
F

Forceatowulf

G***n S**n*bi
DarthWalden said:
Here is why:

Prior to launch there was a number of people who were very excited for this game due to its setting/graphics and first part nature... I'll put those guys in group A. There was a greater number of people who looked at the gameplay and cinematic nature and thought this game looked fairly mediocre...I'll put those guys in group B.

When Group B shares there opinion with Group A, Group A would take it personally and spend tons of time trying to discredit Group B. Group B went on the defense and spend time trying to discredit Group A. Due to there position in this argument Group B became emotionally invested in this game "being bad" and when the reviews were released it just helped to cement Group B's opinion so they cheered the results. If the reviews were great Group A would be cheering from the rooftops.
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You forgot Group C.

- People who were all about this game for quite some time until it became very apparent that it wasn't going to turn out so good and abandoned ship somewhere down the line.

As a group C'er, I can confirm that we are indeed the smuggest group of them all.
 
C

Chû Totoro

Member
Opiate said:
I think this is part of it, but I also think some people object to "cinematic" games and dislike them so much that they wish that they ceased to exist.

It's terribly selfish and self centered, but there is some logic to it. Yes, I too wish the world centered around me, and every game was made with my preferences in mind too. It won't happen, but it certainly sounds nice from a purely selfish point of view.
Click to expand...

Well it's not that I want "cinematic" games to disappear, it's just that they take more and more space and resources in the gaming industry making the more "traditional" vision of gaming suffering a lot past few years. I'm ok for gaming industry to grow and offer more variety but not at the expense of what made gaming what it is in the first place.

It's not a fight, and we don't have to choose between "cinematic" or "traditional" but sometimes things like this are almost perceived as a win because it sends a message some of us felt it wouldn't be heard.

It's clearly not a win and I'm the first being sad having both Xbox One and PS4 and feeling like there's no games for me but it's at least a signal that some orientations have to be made with more precautions.
 
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