yeah i wouldnt go that far. I dislike modi quite a lot... hes no where near as erratic as trump . Knows what hes doing etc etc.
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The Partition of India 70 Years on
- Thread starter NyMartin90
- Start date
yeah i wouldnt go that far. I dislike modi quite a lot... hes no where near as erratic as trump . Knows what hes doing etc etc.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Mountbatten is part of the reason why the establishment child sex abuse inquiry wouldnt feature in Northern Ireland. He was a regular friend of one James Saville. When he was murdered, he took two young boys out on a boat...
Him, Heath and several others are the reason the CSE inquiry has been kicked into the long grass. It a bit of a rabbit hole, Mountbatten is a feature of most 20th century British conspiracy theories that turned out to be correct, including saville and the Wilson coup.
The Indian subcontinent is home to a lot of ethnic tribes, but there is some overlap like the Punjabis.
Culturally the two have a lot of common, especially the love for Cricket lol.
That map shows of the deep divisions within Pakistan society. The Balochi insurgency is gaining ground, upsetting Iran who fear an independent Balochistan would have designs on their own Balochi province. The US has been accused by Iran of aiding the Balochi militants. In time we may witness the total dissolution of the Pakistani state, just like what happened to Yugoslavia.
Given the ISI's support for the Taliban and its war crimes in Balochistan I can't say I'm too sympathetic towards Pakistan TBH.
DarkLordMalik
Member
Gaining ground? Where? Please post more of the alternative facts.
Also no need for your sympathy. None is needed here.
Patrick Bateman
Member
I recently read about the partition of India. The numbers of people displaced or killed are crazy.
Sad to see how much misery and conflicts this created.
Sad to see how much misery and conflicts this created.
There is very little education on the Empire here, really. When you ask most people about India the canned response is to go on about how the British built all the railways and did good. Of course they were built to enable the empire to continue stealing resources from the subcontinent for profit, not out of charity.
I didn't learn of things like the Bengal famine until I was well into my 20s, despite how much everyone in this country likes to bang on about British history during WW2.
I'm not sure what relevance one has to the other here? One is about exonerating an individual off a serious criminal accusation/charge the result of which has long standing consequence for the country. The other is a stupid law pandering to the nationalist sentiments in India that has always existed as either custom or the default norm.
Playing the national anthem in cinema is not something new (it didn't exist everywhere but it was there in plenty of places including my hometown), making it a law that is to be followed everywhere is new. Expecting people to stand in respect of national anthem or otherwise go through scrutinity and what not is nothing new, making it a law requiring people to do so is new. Point being neither of those things are something that no one in the Indian population had ever heard about or experienced until it became a law.
As someone who grew up in India I can tell you it becomes second nature to stand up and "respect the national anthem" and for a lot of people not doing so feels bad, because of how ingrained it is in the Indian society to do it. And it's done so from a very young age, for example every single school assembly that I had back in the day finished off with singing the national anthem. That's every single school day of my life from primary school to high school...that's how it gets ingrained into people. Legitimising it into a law is not the issue here that's just a symptom, the issue is that it was ingrained into the Indian society to hold it in such high regards in the first place! Legitimising this never would've happened if the people didn't put such an importance on a national anthem for decades.
India went from being one of the richest countries in the world to one of the poorest during Britain's rule. No amount of British spin can alter that fact. And I can see from the messages here that the classic British tactic of divide and rule is still stifling both countries to this day.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Shakib would walk into both the Pakistani and Indian teams and would almost certainly make a combined XI.
Having said that...
The insecurity and sensitivity of Bangladeshi fans will never stop being funny.
As expected, it didn't take long for stupid cunts to come out of the woodwork and try to turn the thread to shit.
Amen.
No arguments here, the partition was just one final fuck-you to India from Britain after years of exploitation.
sazzy
Member
This is a famous Urdu short story, written by Sadat Hasan Manto, translated here in English, about the partition of India. Its one of my all-time favorite short stories.
Its satire, and the style of writing is in the same vein as Animal Farm, where the reader is a disinterested observer. Its quite heart-breaking.
http://www.sacw.net/partition/tobateksingh.html
Quoting about the first third of the story:
Its satire, and the style of writing is in the same vein as Animal Farm, where the reader is a disinterested observer. Its quite heart-breaking.
http://www.sacw.net/partition/tobateksingh.html
Quoting about the first third of the story:
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
It's ridiculous to compare Modi to a terrorist. I wasn't a fan of him before he became a PM but after seeing him in the office for three years I can easily say he's the best PM India has ever had after Indira Gandhi. He has elevated the office with his impeccable behaviour.
The 2002 riots are a bit complicated. Modi had a responsibility as CM to stop it but he isn't a villain like most people think. The Congress party used to be very good at pushing propaganda because they owned the media for a long time and it doesn't take a lot for political parties to generate hate in India because it is such a diverse country.
The 2002 riots are a bit complicated. Modi had a responsibility as CM to stop it but he isn't a villain like most people think. The Congress party used to be very good at pushing propaganda because they owned the media for a long time and it doesn't take a lot for political parties to generate hate in India because it is such a diverse country.
Because one is putting forth a Fascist-style law forcing everyone to be "patriotic" while the other is blatantly tipping the scales against a minority, like a Fascist state would?
And I even pointed this out to you in the last thread--there's a HUGE difference between playing it and having it optional, and playing it and making standing up mandatory.
Mr. PlayStation
Member
200
I dont know about that. A lot of the current Pakistani & Indian all-rounders wont make the list. I dont know if there will be a room for a spin all-rounder.
Posts like these are ironic, on one hand they claim "Congress media bias" but readily gulp the right-wing bias that's currently present. Easily the best PM .... yeah thats the same line of thinking as the Republicans, who think that Trump is also better than Obama.
TomWaitsForNoMan
Banned
Maybe when they say "best PM since Indira Gandhi" they mean in terms of bodycount
I was wondering, Pashtuns are considered part of the Iranic ethnic groups, but they aren't native to Iran? Do you know what the connection is?
ClosingADoor
Member
It is kind of impressive that a ton of the conflicts we had over the past century were the results of British colonialism. From Africa to the Middle-east and India. It's either the most stupid and incompetent way to have done it, or it was all going according to plan to fuck over those regions.
TimeEffect
Member
Any info on christian groups during this time? And whats up with the beef between silhs and muslims? Is it just about the punjab region?
RustyNails
Member
British Empire especially the British Raj was in no way incompetent. All of their actions have been validated and detailed, including atrocities such as Jalianwala Bagh Massacre. Though relieved of his post and command, General Dyer was showered with awards in Britain and was called "The man who saved India".
TimeEffect
Member
I see, Ill read this in detail soon. Where sikhs a persecuted minority compared to muslims in the region? What was the relationship with hindus like?, what about the hindu/muslim hate? Was it really that hindus saw muslims as lesser than untouchables? Why?
Where do christian minorities fit into all this?
the sikhs were friendly with hindus, but from the very beginning opposed invasions into india. when the afghan people gained a foothold in the region, the sikhs were persecuted severely. one of those links points out how eventually the pashtuns decided to execute all sikh men and put the women and children in work camps.
the hindu/muslim stuff is also quite long running, with massacres on both sides.
afaik the christians were mostly ignored during partition.
Interesting, do you know the answer for my question too? Been trying to find out.
Corpsepyre
Banned
Lahori here. I get really, really sad looking at some of the photos from the 60s and 70s. Things seemed as if they were much better. You know, till 2006 and 07, I was somewhat still hopeful about the country with Musharraf in power. The moment he stepped down, enabled the cunts to come back, and then PPP stepping in and utterly crushing the country, especially Punjab, things took a turn for the worst, and there never was any recuperation. I'm not exactly looking forward to a future here, or would want my kids, if I have any some day, to grow up here. I'm not the only one here too who's moving out or planning on moving out, and it should never have been this way.
The British Empire fucked up everything. India used to be called the golden sparrow because of how rich it was, but England ravaged everything, leaving a divided country behind. I think Pakistan and Bangladesh really got it the worst. I am not Pakistani or Bangladeshi but every person I talk to who is, seems to say that their countries were much better off when they were all united as one nation.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
You can post a map of many overlapping ethnicities in any country with a large population. Pakistan isn't dissolving anytime soon.
IndoAssassin
Banned
Read about the birth of sikhism. Then read the history of the 10 gurus and the panj pyare. And you'll get why there is hatred to Muslims.
I wouldn't say Sikhs were persecuted, not like Muslims. For the most part I think they are well respected in India. However, there's definitely been an injustice done to them at points in India's history. To my mind, two things come up immediately, one is 1984 & the other is Chandigarh. I've also heard that some political leaders of India such as Mahatma Gandhi had some anti-Sikh views, and actually viewed Sikhism as a sect of Hinduism, and refused to acknowledge it as it's own belief.
But if you ask the common man in India today, I don't think they'll have negative thoughts or feelings toward each other. At least, thats the vibe I got while living in India. Sikhs, Hindu's, etc. all seemed to respect each other fairly well. You still had caste issues and such, but there was no hostility towards each other.
Hindu/Muslim hate goes back, and I think it's also evolved into Pakistan/India hate. It's funny, if you look at Bollywood some of the biggest stars are Muslim. But these two countries still hate each other. I've heard my own family and friends in India talk badly about Pakistan/Muslims/etc. But this history, a long with Christians in India goes far back. I don't have a great understanding of it so hopefully someone else can help you out.
I will say, the caste system is still very much alive in India. When I lived there, I remember seeing an untouchable/lower caste member cleaning my gali/street. The neighbors around me wouldn't even touch her or look at her, and some refused to pay her. I saw people abusing this system, taking advantage of it, etc.
I remember last year I actually got in an argument over an acquantice of mine over this. He refused to believe the caste system was still alive in India lol.
Edit: And yea with the "beef" between Sikhs and Muslims, read up on the history of the Guru's, invasions of India , etc.
wiki says that there's some overlap geographically with certain areas of iran.
more importantly, though, it seems nobody really knows where the pashtuns came from, but the major theories revolve around eastern iranian peoples migrating to what is now afghanistan
BasilZero
Member
It's sad how the region is full of conflict and division - not as bad as in the Middle East but still bad enough.
I am not familiar with the issues that occurred in the partition. Mainly because no one in my family talks about it and I have been living in the US since I was one year old ( was born in Kerala, India but came to the US one year after I was born.)
Not a Hindu or Muslim - but I am sure I am in a bigger minority than most of the religious groups mentioned, can't imagine how it would have been if I was living during those times.
I am not familiar with the issues that occurred in the partition. Mainly because no one in my family talks about it and I have been living in the US since I was one year old ( was born in Kerala, India but came to the US one year after I was born.)
Not a Hindu or Muslim - but I am sure I am in a bigger minority than most of the religious groups mentioned, can't imagine how it would have been if I was living during those times.
That's pure speculation though. The exoneration is there with proof, now whether you believe that proof is biased and untrue or not...is speculation. So it's not as "blatant" as you'd like to claim because fair arguments can be made for it.
As for the other thing, are you an Indian that's lived in India? Because if you aren't a then you won't really understand what I was talking about. Because it's like I already mentioned. Standing up to it has always been the "status quo". Just because a law didn't exist doesn't mean it was optional and you could get away without problems. It's sort of like what happened regarding Gay laws in India, same sex marriage was always illegal and then one day instead of legalising it they removed that law altogether...and although a law against same sex marriage didn't exist it after that it didn't really mean the government and the people were more accepting of it than it was when the laws existed. It's why the supreme court basically said "fuck off, come back with a real reform rather than removing a law that would not change anything about the status quo".
India and BJP is many things, but it's not fascist just because of something like this.
What are you even talking about?
Something can be blatant with people still spinning it as something completely different, as you seem to be doing.
They removed that law... but then re-criminalized gay marriage, so I don't even know what point you're trying to make there.
And why do I have to live in India to judge how far right a political group is? It's not enough I have family who live there and I've looked at the policies, positions, and politicians of that party? When that Greek party had its candidates pose in front of ovens as a call back to the Holocaust, nobody went "oh you're not Greek, you don't get to say that's a thing neo-Nazis do." Ultra-nationalism, alongside with suppressing minority groups and protecting an already protected majority group? That's Fascism, dude.
Based off of this thread and the India/China one, it seems like any thread about India just devolves into someone mentioning how bad the BJP are and the same few people coming in with walls of text about how the BJP are actually misunderstood and that they're actually good and not at all far right. That's just a massive shame.
Fair point, my statement was flippant and reactionary. But let's not paint Muslims as the perpetual victims throughout the recent history of India. There were atrocities committed by both sides. Many Hindu families, including my grandparents were displaced during partition, losing their land and livelihoods. I remember them telling me of their friends that were butchered by gangs of Muslims while crossing over.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
The Falklands have zero indigenous population and weren't even settled or claimed by Spain first. Again, Spain and Argentina didn't even settle that far south across from the Falklands on the South American mainland at the time.
Never happening. There's no legal precedent. Argentina's claim is based on proximity alone (despite the islands being a good distance off the South American mainland anyway), which is not how the world works.
Also, when Argentina invaded in 1982 they left minefields that are still closed off today.
Not analogous to India or Pakistan at all. You have an island with no indigenous population, located well off the coast of a part of a continent that wasn't explored by Spain/Argentina at that point. Argentina is never getting that. There is zero, and I mean zero reason for the British claim to be questioned by a knowledgeable person.
In contrast though, what happened in India and what is now Pakistan/Bangladesh was obviously really, really bad and had consequences.
The settlement of the Falklands, generally brief settlements by France, the UK, and Spain initially and then just the UK, never had any real consequences and aren't worth a mention in the same sentence. Argentina is entitled to nothing and suffered nothing.
There was plenty of times where the National Anthem played before a movie in India and I didn't stand up. I had friends born and raised in India, sometimes we would stand, sometimes we didn't. I've been to sporting events in America, sometimes I stand during the anthem, sometimes I sit.
PunjabiPlaya
Member
Wtf, you mean the person who ordered the attacks on Sikhs and The Golden Temple?
This guy gets it.
_______________
Also, from what I'm hearing from cousins who live in India, the whole religious push the government is making has lead to stricter laws and punishment for selling or consuming beef in India, despite them exporting tons of beef. From what I heard, they're straight up executing people suspected of dealing beef or sending them to life in prison. There's some articles about it if you do a quick google search. A lot of it is vigilante justice, but it's still messed up when the government isn't stopping it. Here's one article on it:
https://newrepublic.com/article/144043/cow-vigilantes-launched-indias-lynching-epidemic
Earthbound64
Banned
I'm guessing their reference was in relation to the Falkland Islands being one of the very few British Overseas Territories left, after the period from 1947 - 1997.
To look at what the UK had in the years leading up to 1947, and then what they have left after 1997... RIP United Kingdom.
That's... surprising. I always thought all western nations educate the youth on the atrocities commit by said nation. Germany of course with WW2, but even hear in Canada you couldn't go through middle school and high school without being taught about our treatment if Native Americans and residential schools, heck they even cover the prejudice against the Quebecois and the many times English Canada has tried to fuck them over.
Earthbound64
Banned
Not sure if serious, or just unaware.
Don't look at the US education system any time soon...
DarkLordMalik
Member
I can understand why you are uncertain of the future but honestly listing mushraff era as having a positive influence? You do realize it was during his time that terrorism took a full blown turn here in Pakistan. He also killed a very prominent Baloch leader. Mushraff is easily the second worst dictator after Zia who also brought a lot of stupid politicians with him.
PPP and PMLN might be corrupt but I'd rather have them than another dictator like Mushraff. PPP got lucky in elections after Mushraff thanks to the death of Benazir Bhutto otherwise there is slim chance they could have won the election at that time.
You weren't taught about Native Americans, Trail of Tears, etc? What state are you from? I know it was taught in New York, Michigan, and California.
The British Empire is still seen by many here with rose-tinted glasses. Hence some of the most vocal Brexit supporters banging on about the Commonwealth as if all those nations are just itching for Britain to come back and treat them like crap again.
This thread is a considerably better discussion of the partition than the entire British school system in my experience. I'd like to thank everyone for their contributions.