The theme of disappointing sequels and what is going on

cormack12

cormack12

Gold Member
Someone suggested we break this out into a separate thread, so why are some high profile sequels being dismissed as 'DLC', 'expansions', 'lazy' or 'iterative instead of innovative'. It seems to be striking a large number of games these days and no one is safe. These arent my person opinion just an example of all games that came under flak for their delivery

God of War
Hellblade II
Doom: The Dark Ages (Eternal was also divisive)
Monster Hunter Wilds
Halo Infinite (but let's face it, guardians could be here too)
Mario Kart World
Tears of the Kingdom (divisive)
Spider-Man 2
Forbidden West
Dragon's Dogma II
Greedfall II
Life is Strange
Ghost of Yotei (immediate reactions)
Veilguard

Many others as well, but what is happening? Are we all just too cynical these days? Is the quality suffering? Are you expecting sequels to change things up a lot more (e.g. Helldivers)

Season 8 Wtf GIF by The Office
 
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Because games now take 6 years to make and the game is just a slightly better game than the previous one, this a massive issue in western development. For example, Nioh and Nioh 2 are iterative sequels but they came out in the same generation and 2 made 1 completely obsolote, I expect the same with Nioh 3

This topic is very interesing tbh

Edit: I forgot to add Death Stranding 2, a japanese game that is facing the same problems with being basically the same game but a bit better, but I think DS2 is a COVID game and it shows
 
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In my opinion nothing other than GAF being overly negative about most games these days.

I think majority of GAF hate this hobby.
 
cormack12 said:
Are we all just too cynical these days?
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Standards have decreased, writing talent has also decreased, big corporate games will not risk anything other than a safe sequel of a popular game. Basically the culture(if thats the right word) went from mono to poly and not just in games. We used to all celebrate for bad or worse movies/shows like The Avengers or Game of Thrones, we'd talk ages about them, same with games like TLOU. Whens the last time that happened with a movie, show or game? We talk a month at best and then we forgot about it and moved on even if they're 9+/10. Nowadays these big products need to be good for every single person which means they can't risk anything. They're good products but safe and boring.
 
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For most games, it's just that the older devs left the studio and were replaced by people with little talent and passion for games.
There is also the problem that a lot of studios hired political consultants, and that means that writing is reduced to it's lowest form.
 
I didn't find most of these disappointing. In my book a good sequel takes what's great about the previous game and expands on it while adding more content and mechanics. Ragnarok, Spiderman 2, Forbidden West (and from the looks of it Yotei) do exactly that. You could argue they were safe sequels, but then again I'm not sure what more they could have done to differentiate themselves. Scrap everything and start over "from the ground up" to deliver a game in 10+ years? Even then, history shows that this approach is not guaranteed to appeal to existing fans.

Veilguard was disapponting (woke elements aside) because it scrapped everything fans liked and gave them something that was too different from what they wanted from a Dragon Age game. Halo Infinite failed to deliver on the hype, tech, story and variety. Dragon's Dogma 2 was disappointing because it didn't expand on the first game other than newer tech, if anything it regressed in some aspects like dungeons.
 
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Not all of them are truly disappointing sequels.

Something like Dragons Dogma 2 or Monster Hunter Wilds would qualify where previously competent devs messed up on basics.
 
Mario Kart World and Halo Infinite shouldn't be on that list imo because they at least tried to do something different with those games from a gameplay perspective. Hookshot and open world for Halo and open world for Mario Kart etc.
 
rofif said:
"no difference" "what were they doing".
Meanwhile og was 1080p30 on ps4. my comparison is with ps5 version


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The generational jump is nowhere near other generations, I can get the sentiment. You can compare two screenshots from Death Stranding 1 and 2 and probably 90% would think is the same game even tho DS2 looks overall better
 
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Come on now, GoT looks so much better than that. GoY looks better but not as good as a generational leap. It's like a remaster of the graphics of GoT, same way as Ragnarok is only slightly better than GOW.
 
Bojji said:
DEI/Woke/LGBT+ propaganda is one of the biggest reasons.

Ballooned development costs and long ass dev cycles are another.
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Are you people broken? FFS woke whining is so pathetic. If anything nobody should care about your opinions about anything because they are so shallow and rooted in ignorant bigotry.
 
Gamers when a game takes a long ass time to make: "this is bullshit where's the fucking game why's it taking so long?"
Gamers when a game comes out in a reasonable time but doesn't push the graphical boundaries like a Rockstar game that took 8 years to make, but still looks fucking great: "this is bullshit where are the fucking graphics? What did they do for 4 and a half years?"
 
LordCBH said:
Gamers when a game takes a long ass time to make: "this is bullshit where's the fucking game why's it taking so long?"
Gamers when a game comes out in a reasonable time but doesn't push the graphical boundaries like a Rockstar game that took 8 years to make, but still looks fucking great: "this is bullshit where are the fucking graphics? What did they do for 4 and a half years?"
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You think five years is reasonable?
 
KungFucius said:
Are you people broken? FFS woke whining is so pathetic. If anything nobody should care about your opinions about anything because they are so shallow and rooted in ignorant bigotry.
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If you don't care why bother to answer?

Woke bullshit is ending but there are still games that started development when it was normal to spread this propaganda in games. Intergalactic will be INTERESTING for sure, hahaha.
 
I would disagree that all of those examples were disappointing.
In any case I would say probably because of a lack of creative vision, or game dev becoming too "corporate". There are probably other reasons too, like teams becoming too large to manage effectively, etc.
But when you think of something like Halo 1, Bungie was focused on making the best game they could. They wanted a game with gameplay they loved, and a narrative they felt strongly about. Monetization of the game etc didn't factor into the development process. However, that isn't the case with something like Halo Infinite, where the multiplayer was steered towards live service, and the campaign was supposed to continue on with a 10 year plan or something.
 
I think you guys either keep playing retro games all your life or just find different hobby all together… you would be much happier this way.
 
Just generally speaking, my usual standard for a satisfying sequel is at least 1 unique hook that somewhat significantly alters the gameplay.

Ninja Gaiden 2: Dismemberment
Halo Infinite: Grappling hook
Mario Sunshine: Water pack
Tears of the Kingdom: Building / Sky / Underground
Metroid Prime 4: Psychic powers

There are exceptions. Sometimes you aren't sick of a game and just want more of the same. Splinter Cell was like that. Hellblade 2 I liked but it was carried by the jaw dropping production values. Sometimes you just like a game even if its similar.

It's never been a black and white formula. I still try and judge each game with an open mind and sometimes you're into it and sometimes you're not. Sometimes the game is similar, but the story is good and you just want more of it. Sometimes it comes out fast and is priced fairly so you just want more of it. For example, if Dragon's Dogma Online came out when it was out in Japan it would probably be received positively. But add several more years of waiting and Dragon's Dogma 2 being very similar was seen as a let down.

Veilguard looks like a big leap graphically, and in gameplay. It just seems like the story fully shit the bed. Not really the same thing as safe sequel syndrome.

Also games that are open world don't always need a sequel, especially a similar one. Games that are over 40 hours don't always need a sequel. Most games back in the day were shorter so you still craved a bit more. Also DLC literally didn't even exist back then. Now something that's an extremely minimal update could literally be DLC instead sometimes.
 
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I agree with a lot of people saying there is a ton of negativity here but I agree almost all of the Sony sequels have been poor. Their formula is long in the tooth and I think the sequels have highlighted they need to further innovate.

Spiderman, God of War and Horizon were incredible first games with all three sequels being a slog to get through.
 
FewRope said:
The generational jump is nowhere near other generations, I can get the sentiment. You can compare two screenshots from Death Stranding 1 and 2 and probably 90% would think is the same game even tho DS2 looks overall better
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We are never again getting the jumps you think off.
Diminishing returns. moores law is dead. chips are no longer getting smaller fast enough.
And these consoles are 5 years old. The difference is big enough considering pushing higher framerate and fps.

The only thing is that the development could've been faster
 
Bojji said:
Dev cycles would be long anyway, even without all this idiocy injected into games. But for sure games would cost less to develop without all those consultants.
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You really think consultants take a big part of the budget and not useless managment and having 20 different teams to make one shit asset?
 
Development costs are huge, so devs will double down on what is popular. There are some outliers of course.

Personally, I'm incredibly thankful that these games are release at all.
 
rofif said:
We are never again getting the jumps you think off.
Diminishing returns. moores law is dead. chips are no longer getting smaller fast enough.
And these consoles are 5 years old. The difference is big enough considering pushing higher framerate and fps.

The only thing is that the development could've been faster
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Yeah thats my point, development needs to be faster for this kind of iterative sequel. I dont think people is waiting 5+ years to just play the game they did before but a bit better imho
 
Spyxos said:
I would rather say that people have been fooled too often, and are now much less likely to trust the hype.
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There has been disappointing games and also there has been great games

This has been a case ever since I was toddler started playing video games.

That doesn't mean I should turn in to some kind of jaded miserable fuck.
 
I dunno most of the games I play are good. Generally because I avoid the ones that are not. Got burned on DD2 and MH Wilds. But those are special Capcom cases. They are still good games...but just disappointing. And in some cases just seems like the people making it didn't play the last game in the series and didn't understand what made Dragon's Dogma and Monster Hunter what they are. But I really don't think we need to beat a dead horse any further. I could go on ALL DAY on why current era Pokemon(except Arceus I like that one) is hot garbage but it just isn't worth it.

A lot of the "modern" games are very easy to dissect without playing them at all and aren't worth the time.

Though most games I buy these days are from Indies.

Donkey Kong and Silent Hill f already are going to be good so I'm not concerned.

And Wuchang a week after Donkey Kong is looking great too.

Past 2 years have been good gaming years. Maybe not for AAA but for everything else.
 
I think that is mostly the price.

I expect a sequel to improve the game significantly, specially now that they are charging 80 usd.

If the game doesn't bring a lot of new stuff, why not charge 40 usd, like Nightreign?

Even new games like Wukong, Helldivers 2, Khazan and E33 launched at less than 60 usd.

I paid 46 usd on Death Stranding 2 and, from what I played so far, gameplay wise is basically DS1 with some minor improvements, for 46 usd I am fine with it... However, If I had paid 80 usd, I would probably regret it.
 
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Punished Miku said:
I never see this sentiment unless people are disappointed in Sony or Capcom. Then it's whoa guys whoa, time out. Criticism is getting out of hand. Funny it never is too much on other games.
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Yea, when literally every single Sony sequel this gen is disappointing and underwhelming, then the problem is obviously not gamers.

LordCBH said:
We aren't on the PS2 where games are getting made in 9 months. And five years won't make a rockstar level leap either.
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Well, there's a huge difference between 9 months and 5 years.

Also, consider: Rockstar used to be one of many. A lot of companies were able to make games to their level. Now, I would argue it's simply impossible for anyone else to make RDR2 let alone GTA6. Something has changed significantly to where devs need 3x more time to make a game that is 1/3rd as impressive. Like is Shadows such an upgrade over AC Valhalla that it needed five years? I don't think so considering the three of these games t between 2017-2020
 
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People just like to embrace their inner fanboy and bash things. Jumping on a game's sequel for being similar to the original is an easy win for warriors.

After you finish a great game: Amazing, give me more of that!

After the devs deliver what you wanted: Lazy bastards, it's DLC, lol.
 
OP, GAF isn't representative of the masses. The preview was well received and I bet this game sells as well or more than its predecessor and gets similar critical praise.
 
rofif said:
"no difference" "what were they doing".
Meanwhile og was 1080p30 on ps4. my comparison is with ps5 version


7s892iR.jpeg


nZcE2VJ.jpeg
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Why do you do that? I recall you being one of those that said Ghost of Tsushima looked stunning and you posted screenshots of how good it could look. Now you suddenly forgot lol?
 
Aion002 said:
I paid 46 usd on Death Stranding 2 and, from what I played so far, gameplay wise is basically DS1 with some minor improvements, for 46 usd I am fine with it... However, If I had paid 80 usd, I would probably regret it.
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If you think DS2 only has minor improvements you haven't played it enough or you need to get your eyes tested.
 
Another factor is that a lot of these sequels were supposed to be released earlier than they were. DS2 was originally supposed to come out 2 to 3 years prior than it did, and that's because of Covid. The whole generation is still reeling from the after effects of Covid.


Not to mention there are various reasons why previous gens used to have bigger leaps in graphical fidelity between sequels ( especially ones that came out in the "next" gen):

1. Technological advancements have shown down. Even pc gpus are now longer getting big jumps on power.

2. Tools have matured. A reason why games used to see such massive jumps in fidelity was that tools( techniques, algorithms and engines themselves) were still not mature. Now, they have reached a point of diminishing returns. (A big example of this effect is those youtube videos that compared the number of edges of an object falling on a ball or something. You initially see a big jump, but after a point there isn't much difference because the approximation has reached a point wherein it can already fool the human brain and the minor differences are not visible unless one looks extremely closely).

3. Budgets and time. Previous gens saw increases in both, but publishers didn't mind as there was still growth in the industry. Nowdays growth has shown down, and due to the previous reasons, even twice the budget and time doesn't result in big differences, so publishers don't see the value of such massive investments and are tightening up.

4. Nostalgia, you always remember the game looking better than it used to. I recently went back to gt sport, and the drop in fidelity from gt7 was far greater than I expected/remembered. Plus you usually end up comparing the best points of the previous games to the worst points in new ones( you can look for examples in ghost of yotei thread. People are focusing scenes wherein yotei looks it's worst as compared to scenes wherein Tsushima looks it's best). ( The "you" here is "people in general" rather than a specific person).
 
Gaiff said:
Why do you do that? I recall you being one of those that said Ghost of Tsushima looked stunning and you posted screenshots of how good it could look. Now you suddenly forgot lol?
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got looks stunning. I only played it this year.
goy looks better.
one does not exclude another lol
 
FewRope said:
The generational jump is nowhere near other generations, I can get the sentiment. You can compare two screenshots from Death Stranding 1 and 2 and probably 90% would think is the same game even tho DS2 looks overall better
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The same can be said about a screenshot of a console game and same running on a PC.
 
Clear said:
If you think DS2 only has minor improvements you haven't played it enough or you need to get your eyes tested.
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Bro I'm loving DS2 but its literally the same game with amazing QoL updates to the gameplay, you cant deny that (later in the game you unlock some crazy shit but the game is still the same). Not talking about graphical stuff here
 
cormack12 said:
Are we all just too cynical these days? Is the quality suffering? Are you expecting sequels to change things up a lot more (e.g. Helldivers)
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It's not cynism and I don't even want games to change things up a lot, quality is suffering, the sequels show, GOW18 > Ragnarok, Spider-Man >> Spider-Man 2, Horizon >>> Forbidden West, DA Inquisition >>>> Veilguard
 
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