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The UK votes to leave the European Union |OUT2| Mayday, Mayday, I've lost an ARM
- Thread starter Hasney
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anonymous_abc
Member
xD
Hardly surprising a giant Theresa May wasn't able to sustain an erection.
PdotMichael
Banned
Yeah, I hope the people there enjoy a post-Hard Brexit Dover.
Theonik
Member
Like May would be seen in public ever again.
RedSparrows
Member
I hope it fell over, and face palmed as it did so.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Some light reading...
http://uk.businessinsider.com/inves...nds-shunning-uk-after-brexit-2017-6?r=US&IR=T
http://uk.businessinsider.com/inves...nds-shunning-uk-after-brexit-2017-6?r=US&IR=T
PJV3
Member
What the fuck is going on, a major backtrack?
EU making more moves.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/i...9517&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/i...9517&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
DarthMasta
Member
As attractive as it might be to think of the UK realizing Brexit isn't such a hot deal, eating humble pie and going back to the EU, coupled with losing their special status (with the benefit that everyone would now know that the UK needs the EU, so no more EU as excuse for all the ills), I don't think it's going to happen.
Which politician is going to stand up and tell the public "Actually, you guys are fucking morons who can't be trusted with these decisions, we were morons for putting it to a test, trust your betters, back to the EU for us"? I just can't see it. Unfortunately sometimes the only way to learn is to actually do stuff and see that it hurts...
Which politician is going to stand up and tell the public "Actually, you guys are fucking morons who can't be trusted with these decisions, we were morons for putting it to a test, trust your betters, back to the EU for us"? I just can't see it. Unfortunately sometimes the only way to learn is to actually do stuff and see that it hurts...
I know it probably does the souls of EU technocrats a lot of good saying stuff like the UK can't come back without worse terms, but it is a really daft thing to say to a country if you want to have any kind of working relationship with them.
If that became the official position of the EU then there is an absolutely 0% chance of us coming back and probably a near 0% chance of a deal of any kind. This would be a disaster for both the UK and EU.
If that became the official position of the EU then there is an absolutely 0% chance of us coming back and probably a near 0% chance of a deal of any kind. This would be a disaster for both the UK and EU.
Seriously?
"Yeah you guys. Just come back like nothing ever happened. Lulz."
The EU has been clear about its position all this time. No need to appeal to the idiots running the country. No need to outright lie to its citizens. After all of this the concessions made to the UK are dead.
Theonik
Member
Sadly the EU as it exists right now is an institution that cannot grasp this concept. The exact same thing happened with Greece and the same will happen here. Deep reform is needed. If anything the Greek situation was much more damning because if that's how they treat their members wait till you see how they treat defectors.
E:
Even if the UK government understood this which I'm sure they do, they also know they can't sell this turd sandwich to their electorate.
There is no scenario where this can be accepted.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Inclined to agree. Brexit is obviously much worse for the UK than the EU, but it would be facile to pretend it isn't also bad for the EU in some respect. Even Britain returning to the status quo from before would be better for both parties than even the mildest of Brexits. I don't think that was an especially sensible comment for Verhofstadt to make.
DarthMasta
Member
Your problem is that as far as the EU is concerned, the EU is a train and the UK is a car. A collision isn't going to be great for either, but the people in the car should probably be more concerned.
Apparently some people in the UK think it's the same, but that positions are reversed.
So, what do you get in a game of chicken where both sides believe they're in the bullet-proof car that can't in any way lose? A collision.
Apparently some people in the UK think it's the same, but that positions are reversed.
So, what do you get in a game of chicken where both sides believe they're in the bullet-proof car that can't in any way lose? A collision.
Then let this play out as it is planned, I'd say.
EU knows that it's bad, that's been their position from the start. But they can't just let countries use A50 as a negotiating tactic without any consequences.
The idea that anyone else would use a50 in this way after what it's done to the UK's political/economic system is pretty insane.
And that's it's impact on the UK!! The 5th largest economy in the world. Imagine how badly it would go for Italy, Poland or Denmark for example.
But we (EU) would be at the point we were before this disaster. A return to the status quo with all the benefits for the UK would be just coasting to the next populistic bout to take back control.
The UK has to know it risked everything and got away with a blue eye (getting rid of the benefits) and not play it like "it was just a prank, bro".
The EU will lose more in the long term if we sweep the brexit under the rug. Every alt right party that wants to set foot in other countries and plays with their own exit will see that you can try an exit and if it doesnt work out, just say sorry and you will be back.
THAT cant happen ever!
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
The UK has already taken significant economic damage from this. I don't think there's a single country that seriously wants to follow that example. Even if the UK does cancel, it will still have lost one significant benefit - its 'soft power'. The UK was surprisingly influential over EU legislation and internal reform outcomes, and had a knack of managing to strike up good alliances (something not appreciated domestically, obviously). That's now gone. The UK would be re-entering utterly humbled.
So I think piling on top extra punishments, just when there's the first sign of wavering, would be a very bad idea. It just makes things worse for everyone - the EU included. Nobody needs more punishment here.
I think dropping the concessions that Cameron negotiated under the threat of leaving EU is fair. The whole point of that negotiation was for UK to not go for Brexit. Not respecting your part of the deal and losing everybody's time in the process should have consequences.
anonymous_abc
Member
I am not sure the EU has a leg to stand on if the UK rescinds the A50 notification. Obviously we all know it is uncharted water but if they can take backsies on the notification letter I cannot see how anyone can argue that we wouldn't by default be back at the status quo.
UcchedavÄda
Member
There is nothing in A50 that allows you to rescind the notification of your intention to withdraw from the EU. You could argue that the negotiation described in A50 would allow for an annulment of the notification to be negotiated, but that needs the consent of the remaining member states.
Yeah I do think there is something to be said for this. Article 50 is a process to leave. If that process is stopped then there's not really any circumstance under which we'd be stripped of our previous rights.
The situation would be different of course if in 10 years time we re-applied to join the EU.
Theonik
Member
There is nothing in the process stipulating that. In fact there is very little stipulated about the process at all. Everyone is winging it right now so it's more of a case of reaching a mutually agreeable settlement so the whole matter can be swept under the rug.
The whole 'Rules of the EU' thing only exists when it suits certain parties on either side.
If the UK would try to rescind A50 without approval this would become a court case in which case chances are basically 50:50.
In this case UK has 2 options, either try it's luck with the court (and possibly leave without a deal because EU surely won't negotiate during a court case) or accept terms the EU will accept.
tbh all of this stuff is pretty emblematic of the red tape that people hate about the EU
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Isn't this the absence of red tape? It's so confusing because there's not enough clarifications, not because there's too many!
I see where you are coming from but i think in this case the EU is trying to make a point to proof poland and these other countries they can't trigger A50 as a negotiating tactic.
Still if all of this is done they definitely need to clarify A50.
Indeed, and it blows my mind that such important matters weren't considered ahead of time.
I wrote a more comprehensive set of rules for a Rigs tournament for 50 players and approximately three spectators.
PdotMichael
Banned
I agree. Just like there's not gonna be single market membership as long as FoM isn't accepted.
I'd hope that Verhofstadt's comments are posturing for the current Conservative Government. If, by some miracle, a left-wing government managed to win power and steer the country back into the EU It'd be incredibly dumb to punish them for doing so, it'd only lead to resentment and build up more support amongst the right wing again.
Theonik
Member
You are of course assuming leaving the EU is a right wing matter when it is not. The left wing of the UK has opposed the EU the longest after all. (both wings for different reasons of varying validity)
This shouldn't be a partisan issue in my opinion. There is value from a compromise that appeases all parties.
PdotMichael
Banned
There is no EU loving majority in the UK, so it's a pointless exercise.
Meanwhile
I'd actually laugh if this wasn't so terrifying. My future, my savings, my pension, my quality of life, my wages, my ability to travel the world and experience other people and cultures, heck, even my job could all be drastically altered with this shitshow and they don't have a clue where to even start.
No clue why Article 50 matters, there's not a snowball's chance in hell any nation will ever trigger it.
So there is no one who loves the EU, good riddance?
Halph n Halph
Member
And yet the single market existed long before FoM.
I cannot accept that the two are inextricably linked and that one couldn't work without the other. Things worked perfectly fine before 1992.
They're linked by agreement rather than necessity, yes. But the EU won't change that agreement as it would weaken the union.
In theory we could have single market access without FoM, we simply don't have anything to offer the EU that they want enough to back down on this point (except boatloads of money, at which point single market access would be more expensive than simply accepting trade tarrifs based on WTO or whatever).
Theonik
Member
FoM is a necessity to facilitate the current state of the free market. You could have a FTA that excludes FoM but its scope would be limited from that. You can't include services for example and many kinds of modern industries require moving people over on a regular basis. It's a very difficult compromise to reach and no even in the UK's interests.
The UK has no use for a FTA that doesn't include services.
The UK has no use for a FTA that doesn't include services.
The people in the UK that actually liked the EU only ever did for selfish reasons largely. 'It's good for the economy' 'It keeps UK influence in the continent' etc. So yeah.
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