odhiex
Member
More on this link https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/13/24219469/valve-steamos-asus-rog-ally-steady-progress-dual-boot
Steam Machines live
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Verge: Valve confirms it'll support the ROG Ally with its Steam Deck operating system
- Thread starter odhiex
- Start date
More on this link https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/13/24219469/valve-steamos-asus-rog-ally-steady-progress-dual-boot
Steam Machines live
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Great news. Not that it'd really be worth upgrading at this point, because the Deck still works great, but good to know for down the road in case someone besides Valve makes a great handheld that's a worthwhile upgrade. Glad to know these systems won't be kneecapped with Windows going forward.
LavitzSlambert
Member
So long as it doesn't change the hardware target profile that devs can use to benchmark against, this is a great idea. If Valve lets loose the reins it will not end well. I hope they have a stringent certification process to avoid poor outcomes from fragmented hardware configurations.
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
I'm like 99% certain they'll keep the "Steam Deck" verification (it is called Deck Verified after all), but anything else you'll be on your own - just like the rest of Steam and the millions of PC hardware configurations available.
Magic Carpet
Gold Member
the bar reminds me of the snooze bar on my alarm clock. Microsoft kept hitting that snooze bar.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Please release for PC desktop so I can get rid of windows.
Kupfer
Member
Waiting for Deck 2 as well but how come you think it is any close?
Gamezone
Gold Member
Yeah, it doesn't look very good at the moment. At least they are doing something, I guess.
Gamezone
Gold Member
How come Bazzite is avaliable, but no official Valve release? I haven't tried Bazzite, but I guess it's released by the community?
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Would be cool if they found a way to run these OS in parallel - so that you can switch to game from a Steam or Windows Store on the fly.
Last edited:
ozz ex machina
Member
Why on earth would you want that? I'm pretty sure you can even set your windows so it auto launches big picture on boot. You're going to lose a lot and gain what exactly?
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
This would be the absolute dream!
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Ooooh, this is great. The more handheld PCs with Steam Deck OS, the better!
odhiex
Member
"Every screen is a Steam"
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
If the next Xbox does end up having Steam and Xbox OS I think they are definitely working together behind the scenes. Gabe expressed how happy he was with Phil and Microsoft in the ABK purchase case. Its going to be an interesting 10 years.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
My first thought was regarding what this means for an Xbox handheld.
If Phil has an ally (arf!) in Gabe, that could help make things interesting for sure.
TrebleShot
Member
"Soon" haha,
Good one, see you in 5 years.
Good one, see you in 5 years.
Topher
Identifies as young
Nah.....they started prioritizing this after Steam Deck OLED. My guess is it will be available the next few months.
Topher
Identifies as young
Not quite. Gabe said he was "pleased" that MS committed to offer COD on Steam post-acquisition and that he trusted Phil and MS to do what they said. The next Xbox will more than likely be Windows based. Not sure what there is for Valve and MS to work on "behind the scenes". Somehow I doubt, whatever it is, will come pre-installed with Steam, but folks will be able to download and install it like they can on any PC.
ljubomir
Member
I hope it doesn't get announced for at least two more years. The more stable the platform is the better for the ecosystem, and the more meaningful the upgrade is.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
I don’t see Valve making Deck 2 until RDNA4 APUs are released. That is not happening till like late next year.
ReBurn
Gold Member
I don't see where it would affect anything meaningful. People are already using Proton to play Windows games on multiple Linux variants and hardware configurations and it hasn't negatively impacted anything. SteamOS is just a Linux variant with a custom shell. If nothing else targeting a fixed spec like ROG Ally should be low risk.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
You can install steam os on pc already. What's the difference?
Last edited:
Diseased Yak
Gold Member
Cool, I just got a ROG Ally X in a couple days ago, and was planning on making it a Bazzite machine and keeping my Legion Go (and older Steam Deck) the way they are.
May just wait it out and see if there's an official Steam OS release soon.
May just wait it out and see if there's an official Steam OS release soon.
Gamezone
Gold Member
Compatibility isn't good enough yet.
ResilientBanana
Member
That's not why PC's exist.
SteamOS can be installed unofficially right now on a standard PC, but for most configurations its a buggy, unfinished mess. I actually attempted it on the ROG Ally and for a long time so many issues came up with drivers, power utilization, and just decided to install Kubuntu instead. Imo if anything installing KDE + Ubuntu or KDE + Arch gives you a pretty similar experience to the Steam Deck in desktop mode, and Gaming mode is only really useful for handhelds because of the power utilization tweaks and whatnot.
I'd really love to try a proper official SteamOS ISO on the ROG Ally, the Z1 Extreme can be extremely efficient but Windows is absolutely terrible for efficiency, even when I was running Kubuntu I was seeing better gaming performance sometimes with better battery life.
Fabieter
Member
Well it depends on the personal understanding of relatively close. If its something like a year away I won't getting the old hardware. I already have access to pc gaming.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Microsoft RN:
Don't worry; that's their endgame move.
Technically speaking Xbox is already "Windows"-based i.e Xbox OS is a stripped-down & modified version of the Windows kernel at its core. But I get what you mean.
IMO I think the next Xbox systems are going to use a lot of extended APIs and utilities from the regular Windows kernel in some compatibility layer alongside XboxOS to just natively run whitelisted Windows applications on the hardware as if they were native Xbox OS games and apps.
So if Steam is up there, it won't require any work on Valve's end; it'll be up to Microsoft to ensure it runs like people'd expect it to run on a PC and has the same privileges on Xbox devices as it does in Windows, maybe aside a couple odd things that aren't necessities. But I still think the only way Steam on Xbox makes any financial sense is if access it tied to a Game Pass subscription tier.
Which in turn would influence the business and pricing models to an extent. It does give some flexibility, and actually that flexibility extends to OEMs who license out for their own Xbox devices too (beyond just hardware flexibility i.e extra ports or features, or custom UI frontend, since they can't "get a cut" of Game Pass subscription revenue).
Valve doesn't need to "work" with Microsoft anymore than they need to "work" with Asus, Dell, Acer, Lenovo etc. in device compatibility for SteamOS.
As for the Gabe/Phil thing, I think you're reading too much into it. If anything he's just proud of Phil b/c it's the one actually "impressive" think Phil's managed to do while at Xbox. Well, that and nab Zenimax.
Phil hasn't accomplished anything creative or actually leading a game development team to the finish line. He's not revolutionized the industry creatively the way people like Miyamoto, Kojima, Yu Suzuki etc. have. He hasn't revolutionized the industry in business practices or technology the way people like Tom Kalinski, Iwata, Ken Kutaragi or Mark Cerny have. He hasn't led a games platform to a meteoric rise or recovered a struggling gaming brand from the brink like Peter Moore & Kaz Hirai have. Phil's got none of those notches under his belt in gaming.
But he's bought a couple of other companies for ~ $90 billion of Microsoft's money. In Vegas they call that a whale's bet, and he won the bet. So, that's kinda noteworthy I suppose.
Don't worry; that's their endgame move.
Technically speaking Xbox is already "Windows"-based i.e Xbox OS is a stripped-down & modified version of the Windows kernel at its core. But I get what you mean.
IMO I think the next Xbox systems are going to use a lot of extended APIs and utilities from the regular Windows kernel in some compatibility layer alongside XboxOS to just natively run whitelisted Windows applications on the hardware as if they were native Xbox OS games and apps.
So if Steam is up there, it won't require any work on Valve's end; it'll be up to Microsoft to ensure it runs like people'd expect it to run on a PC and has the same privileges on Xbox devices as it does in Windows, maybe aside a couple odd things that aren't necessities. But I still think the only way Steam on Xbox makes any financial sense is if access it tied to a Game Pass subscription tier.
Which in turn would influence the business and pricing models to an extent. It does give some flexibility, and actually that flexibility extends to OEMs who license out for their own Xbox devices too (beyond just hardware flexibility i.e extra ports or features, or custom UI frontend, since they can't "get a cut" of Game Pass subscription revenue).
Valve doesn't need to "work" with Microsoft anymore than they need to "work" with Asus, Dell, Acer, Lenovo etc. in device compatibility for SteamOS.
As for the Gabe/Phil thing, I think you're reading too much into it. If anything he's just proud of Phil b/c it's the one actually "impressive" think Phil's managed to do while at Xbox. Well, that and nab Zenimax.
Phil hasn't accomplished anything creative or actually leading a game development team to the finish line. He's not revolutionized the industry creatively the way people like Miyamoto, Kojima, Yu Suzuki etc. have. He hasn't revolutionized the industry in business practices or technology the way people like Tom Kalinski, Iwata, Ken Kutaragi or Mark Cerny have. He hasn't led a games platform to a meteoric rise or recovered a struggling gaming brand from the brink like Peter Moore & Kaz Hirai have. Phil's got none of those notches under his belt in gaming.
But he's bought a couple of other companies for ~ $90 billion of Microsoft's money. In Vegas they call that a whale's bet, and he won the bet. So, that's kinda noteworthy I suppose.
Last edited:
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Fair point. If you are ok to wait 12-15 months, we will probably see new iteration for the Deck.
JimboJones
Member
Microsoft RN:
Don't worry; that's their endgame move.
Valve not tying their success to units sold and every handheld PC with SteamOS or just steam on it is a win for them.
MS wants to emulate Steam so badly.
JimboJones
Member
If you value the vrr and extra performance at the cost of battery then yes maybe. Throw it in the bin right now.
This is my plan now, was thinking about getting one. Knowing I can get the best* hardware out there and be fully compatible with Steam makes it a lot easier to pull the trigger.
RagnarokIV
Battlebus imprisoning me \m/ >.< \m/
RIP windows’ future on handhelds.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Valve not tying their success to units sold and every handheld PC with SteamOS or just steam on it is a win for them.
MS wants to emulate Steam so badly.
Yeah; MS's problem is they don't have Valve's goodwill, and that's in large part because Xbox (which is still the face of MS in gaming no matter how badly they want Game Pass to supplant it) has lost a large amount of goodwill over the past decade.
Funny part is, Valve's yet another company way smaller than MS beating them in the gaming space, tho I guess the next-gen Xbox plans will show how serious MS are in retooling things (or not).
Topher
Identifies as young
The more I think about it, the more the OEM license model makes sense. I remember when Phil Spencer was talking about a device having other stores like EGS, he referenced Microsoft's history as a "Windows company". That's a history built entirely on licensing. I could definitely see Microsoft getting away from the gaming hardware market entirely and letting the Asus and MSIs of the gaming world slap the Xbox brand on their devices. If they are able to create that compatibility layer with Xbox OS running inside a Windows PC then that's opened up their Xbox store to a huge number of devices. Imagine playing Xbox 360 games in Windows. Amy Hood said it herself.
"I do think the real goal here is to be able to take a broad set of content to more users in more places, and really build what looks like more to us, the software annuity and subscription business"
Microsoft executives have been foreshadowing what is coming for Xbox since last year starting with Phil Spencer's proclamation that Xbox lost the console war to when they started dropping hints about becoming more of a third party publisher. So when Amy Hood is talking about Xbox as the "software annuity and subscription business" then I can certainly see hardware being spun off to companies who work primarily in hardware.
Or I could be totally wrong and we get another Xbox console, but to me that is the least likely scenario.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
There are better distros for Desktop already.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
IMO MS's best chance is something in-between. Gaming hardware isn't completely fruitless, after all the controllers are part of gaming hardware in a sense and those sell quite well. But there is always going to be a desire from them (or any platform holder) to have some stake of control in their gaming ecosystem. I just don't know if Windows is ready to do that in a way Xbox already does when it comes to being controller-friendly, relatively seamless, secure, and jump-in-and-play (not requiring specific fiddling of settings on a per-game basis the way that still exists for lots of PC gamers, tho nowhere near as rough as it used to be prior to modern Windows OSes).
I don't think there's much an interest from OEMs to just license the Xbox name and slap it on a Windows gaming PC box, so MS'd have to offer more. They'd need a full-on controller-friendly gaming frontend UI to license at the very least, that's customizable by OEMs. Well, they already have that...with Xbox. Probably better if they can couple that with a standardized performance spec, something else they already have...with Xbox. Those two things are either non-existent or too open-ended on PC, or redundant in the form of a gaming UI frontend because that'd likely just be a mode setting for Windows 12 or something, which would mean it's just bundled into the Windows license.
That's why Xbox hardware probably isn't completely worthless to them yet; no doubt in the grand scheme of things MS would want to move all their gaming efforts to Windows & PC, but that will probably require a lot of time. It'd require getting full emulation of OG Xbox, 360 etc. on Windows. Finding a way for people to legally transfer all their Xbox purchases over generations to Windows. That's on top of getting a good gaming UI frontend in Windows that works effortlessly with a controller, and having to do all of that while maintaining nothing gets broken kernel-wise that'd hurt other Windows applications.
It's a lot to get done and it doesn't feel like 2-3 years from now is enough to get it all done. Not to mention, MS'd still have to find a way to monetize that initiative in a way to make up for lost console revenue and profits. So an "in-between" approach where they still leverage Xbox hardware more or less as-is but add in more PC-like modularity/flexibility, and Windows features through whitelisting apps and extending Xbox OS functions for natively running whitelisted Windows apps through compatibility layers (and doing some trickery I guess to have Xbox OS directly handle other parts to maximize compatibility & performance), is probably the best approach.
Then that way while they open up the platform to other gaming platforms like Steam, they can just easily tie that access to Game Pass, where on "console" it'd be easily accepted as a trade-off. That way while you're paying a bit more for the hardware, part of it can still be subsidized through Game Pass, and the people who'd pay a bit more to access Steam that way will do so. After all, if the console experience is still so preferable for them, they'd prefer that alternative vs. a PC, and if the price is somewhat reasonable on the hardware while still offering relative performance to say PlayStation hardware, combine access to stuff like Steam or EGS with PC-like modularity upgrades and running whitelisted Windows applications...that could actually attract interest to Xbox that hasn't been present for the past decade. It'd finally be able to be something other than just an off-brand PlayStation.
But for all we know Microsoft could just phone it all in and try cashing out quick. It's a 50/50.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I have said it before and I will say it again... MS is just stupid. They have spent billions chasing down console gaming and allowed Valve build a powerhouse in their very own backyard.
And right now, MS are likely oblivious to the fact that Steam OS is Slowly but surely becoming a thing.
And right now, MS are likely oblivious to the fact that Steam OS is Slowly but surely becoming a thing.