So after my 60th try.... I figured out what I was doing wrong.
I was mashing Left/Right too fast and for some reason the next QTE wasn't even popping up. I slowed down my Left/Right input and the press F to kick the wolf QTE finally came up.
Absolutely unbelievable. The QTEs in this game are in a whole another tier of god awful.
So after my 60th try.... I figured out what I was doing wrong.
I was mashing Left/Right too fast and for some reason the next QTE wasn't even popping up. I slowed down my Left/Right input and the press F to kick the wolf QTE finally came up.
Absolutely unbelievable. The QTEs in this game are in a whole another tier of god awful.
So after my 60th try.... I figured out what I was doing wrong.
I was mashing Left/Right too fast and for some reason the next QTE wasn't even popping up. I slowed down my Left/Right input and the press F to kick the wolf QTE finally came up.
Absolutely unbelievable. The QTEs in this game are in a whole another tier of god awful.
They really are, but they still don't bother me that much.
But If I had to try 60 times I would honestly be livid. The 15-20 tries it took me to complete the second Tomb puzzle were pushing me to my limits of patience, but that's my fault because I completed it apparently differently than the developers intended.
This will always depend on the person though. For me, Souls is very, very normal when it comes to difficulty. The zero progress comment though is an exaggeration. The point of your hour is to learn why you died and become a better player because of it, not throw yourself against the same thing for another hour. If you do not, it's not the game that is hard, but the player that lacks skill.
The other games you mentioned literally do not require that amount of thought or skill, just a steady finger to line up a headshot from behind cover. (I enjoy these games too, otherwise I wouldn't be in this thread)
I guess it's a different kind of difficulty. I enjoy beating the COD games on Veteran and the Uncharted games on Crushing, so it's not like I just play through on normal difficulty and line up headshots. But at least I have the opportunity to retry small sections when I fail at them, rather than having to go all the way back to the beginning of the level when I fail to beat some monster that can only be beaten in an obscure way.
So after my 60th try.... I figured out what I was doing wrong.
I was mashing Left/Right too fast and for some reason the next QTE wasn't even popping up. I slowed down my Left/Right input and the press F to kick the wolf QTE finally came up.
Absolutely unbelievable. The QTEs in this game are in a whole another tier of god awful.
They really are, but they still don't bother me that much.
But If I had to try 60 times I would honestly be livid. The 15-20 tries it took me to complete the second Tomb puzzle were pushing me to my limits of patience.
I guess it's a different kind of difficulty. I enjoy beating the COD games on Veteran and the Uncharted games on Crushing, so it's not like I just play through on normal difficulty and line up headshots. But at least I have the opportunity to retry small sections when I fail at them, rather than having to go all the way back to the beginning of the level when I fail to beat some monster that can only be beaten in an obscure way.
Right, but by actual design, the levels or areas in the Souls games are tiny. When you first encounter them, they take an hour to get through because you have to learn them. Now? I could run through 1-1 or Anor Londo or wherever in literally a minute. Watch a speed run video of either game and see how they trivialize every enemy or trap. How do they do that? Knowledge. The knowledge that they gained from playing the game and it teaching them. Very different style of game, totally different than a shooter.
Eh. I don't mind challenging games, but I think the Souls series takes it way too far. If I only have an hour to game after work and I get killed at the 59th minute, I have officially made zero progress in that game session. Not my idea of fun.
That's just not right. First of all, you probably found all sorts of stuff - items, weapons, armor. If you die, you still keep it. And you also learnt a lot in that hour. You didn't make zero progress.
It's not like some typical shooter, where if you don't reach the next checkpoint, you really didn't do anything (except personal experience and maybe trophy bars of some sort)
I am trying to find Roth's back pack and I found it in the wolf's den. Then when I get back this wolf attacks me and it sets off a QTE. Well I can't beat the QTE, it gives me the mash left/right event and I am mashing it hard but then he chomps me anyway. I have died 20 times to it. No other QTE prompt comes up.
So after my 60th try.... I figured out what I was doing wrong.
I was mashing Left/Right too fast and for some reason the next QTE wasn't even popping up. I slowed down my Left/Right input and the press F to kick the wolf QTE finally came up.
Absolutely unbelievable. The QTEs in this game are in a whole another tier of god awful.
Not exactly a point, just pointing out a little bit of inconsistency for a chuckle. Don't mind it. (ah, I was assuming the second puzzle you were talking about involved a qte, if not my apologies)
You're just doing a description of the development. It's simply "A, B, and C happened, therefore it is good." You do not give reasons for *why* it is "strong" or "good". Nor do you explain why the form or ways through which this development are considered to be good. Ask yourselves the questions: How does the game portray the development Lara as a character? Do the dialogue and events adequately support this development? Do the game actions correspond to this development? In what ways do the game portray the character Lara (and are they executed in a good way)? Why is this portrayal of her development good?
Let me articulate then why I thought Lara's progression in the game was fairly well done. The whole introductory scene is bullshit so I'll start right around the deer bit. Her killing the deer does establish fairly early on two early components of her character. The first is that she's sheltered but had training and the second is that she's willing to kill in order to survive. Her breakdown from killing the rapist seemingly isn't so much from killing him in a gruesome manner but seems more of a release of the events that had transpired up until that point. The scene goes on a bit longer than I liked however it does establish the events of the game are having a mental toll on her. She also quickly states after that killing was easier than she thought. This bit allows for later gameplay segments where the player can kill these NPCs now. Lara never really has any hangup from killing individuals. Her first priority is to survive and repeatedly states that she isn't sure she can do it. She needs constant encouragement over the radio in order to keep going. This is a natural reaction for someone in her situation.
The player can slowly see Lara taking more agency for herself such as when she wanted to check out the 2nd pilot even though Roth argued for her to leave him. This bit establishes she is becoming more comfortable with the island. The argument with Roth also foreshadows a later moment with Alex as well. Next up, there is the bit where she has to get medical supplies. This again is further reinforcement that she isn't human as the events are taking a toll on her. She even has the will later on to burn the wound shut despite the immense pain. Even when she is captured, she didn't give up and had a resilient look on her face. She's becoming more determined and the cutscene illustrates that. To skip a bit further ahead, when she gets the grenade launcher, she's on the warpath to get her friend back be it hell or high water. She's already comfortable killing these enemies and has developed a bit of a fearless streak to her. She's also becoming more suspicious of people such as Whitman. A very clear point in her development is when she is willing to sacrifice Alex in order to get the tools. She's learned Roth's lesson and is clearly a much hardened character compared to earlier in the game. She's also advanced to the point where she's not just concerned about getting off the island but rather about preventing any more people from dying and saving Sam. Radio contact also near the end is reduced and there is less encouragement towards Lara but rather Lara trying to encourage others. There is a stronger sense of isolation and Lara in return becomes more confident.
No, I'm not asking you to do a essay on it - I'm encouraging you to be substantiate your claims with proper reasoning and elaborate explanations. Instead you have only put forth platitudes so far.
Simply saying "I felt the transformation and cared about the character, therefore it is successful" is superficial at best. It's like saying "I liked the taste of this ice cream, because I could taste the ice cream." You unfortunately fail to specify and point out which elements supported this claim in addition to not explaining why it is the fact that it worked. Why is it good? Why was it well-executed? Why did it make you feel the way it made you feel? etc.
Substantiating claims with elaborate explanations sounds an awful lot like an essay in post form. It's a reasonable request, but not something that can be done easily and quickly to be posted in a fast moving thread on a forum.
Not to mention the fact that it's difficult to collate one's thoughts into logical and academic analysis of something you responded to emotionally. I have favourable emotional responses to music at times. The fact that I know music theory and can tell you it was the use of diminished chords that evoked the response doesn't invalidate another person's positive response who couldn't tell you why.
That said, re: Tomb Raider. I felt Lara's response to any given situation was believable and ultimately endearing. Her initial surprise at how easy it is to do the necessary to survive(kill others) that comes up in conversation with Roth. Her eventual detachment from reliance on
Roth after he dies. The way she stays at his make-shift funeral to sort things out mentally, at the expense of staying together with the other survivors.
The way she goes after
Alex despite his communication to the contrary. She knows she's likely walking into a dangerous situation. She later leaves him to die for the good of herself and the other survivors. Which is something she found difficult to do earlier in the game with the pilot.
Her later exclamations of anger and determination that are casually thrown out during gun fights round out the final shift to courageous. Her eventual belief in her instincts over the logical and understandable response of the other characters.
Her character progression in terms of gameplay and equipment serves to support the overall theme as well.
Simply put, there are plenty of affecting, human moments and the development of her character is paced well over the game's length to reach it's admittedly predictable but satisfying ending. Explaining it point by point does it a disservice honestly, becomes it's the combination that sells it, including the players investment from control of Lara. Going into more depth and spoilers doesn't seem the right thing to do for a game that's only a day or two past release.
These conversations need an element of give and take. You can infer the success of some things based on your experience with the game, whether you agree or not. For example, if I didn't like the performance, would I have ever cared about the character? Unlikely.
My initial impressions: Wow. The game is intense and atmospheric and the environments are dripping with detail. It's clear a lot of care has been put into this.
So far it seems like a really, really good example of its genre: cinematic action adventure. Some people don't like how heavy handed the scripting can be at times in these games, but if it's done well and it looks and plays beautifully, like it is here so far, it's a lot of fun. All the good things thrown in like skills, gear and interesting collectibles as well.
It's showing a lot of little influences, things it's borrowed from other games, but it's stealing from the best, which I have no problem with. Hell, I think it's great.
25 year old me is disappointed, 10 year old me is sold.
I would have preferred to have had just the undershirt flesh colored. Basically bubble art her shirt.
Separately, Finished the game this morning. Clocked around 14 hours in Normal mode I've unlocked 74% of the game in my first go, I need to get the final gun forms for 2 more weapons and I'd say after upgrading those two weapons about 7 buyable perks. I've only got 3 more character perks to earn as well, but still plenty of things to find on the island. I'll need to check out the DLC next as well.
I enjoyed the game very much, the set pieces varied in quality, but when they were really good, they were REALLY good. The constantly sliding down tunnels and paths was a bit much, but I understood why they were there. The enemies felt pretty damn great. I can see how they work and started to grasp how to play their AI against themselves a bit by the end which will make future play throughs much easier. As for the story itself, it stood pretty strong I thought, Yes Lara's tendency to go hyper violent was awkward at the beginning, but this is how I "rationalized" it by the end. Our perks and upgrades we were giving Lara as time went on the fortitude to push herself even harder and bringing her real peak. Yes gratuitous violence is gratuitous, but I felt it was needed. I'd hope that if I were in a cutthroat situation even near the beginning of this games scenario then I'd need to push aside my moral high ground to survive and lead whoever was with me to safety. That's me though, when I think about something like this and what I'd need to be capable of to survive.
That's just not right. First of all, you probably found all sorts of stuff - items, weapons, armor. If you die, you still keep it. And you also learnt a lot in that hour. You didn't make zero progress.
It's not like some typical shooter, where if you don't reach the next checkpoint, you really didn't do anything (except personal experience and maybe trophy bars of some sort)
In a way that's true, but that's not how I look at it. I don't go, "Oh well I died but at least I got three more herbs and a new bracelet!" No, I think to myself, "I just played this game for an hour and got sent back to the beginning of the level when that gigantic dragon-wolf-gargoyle sat on me."
In a way that's true, but that's not how I look at it. I don't go, "Oh well I died but at least I got three more herbs and a new bracelet!" No, I think to myself, "I just played this game for an hour and got sent back to the beginning of the level when that gigantic dragon-wolf-gargoyle sat on me."
I suppose that depends if you enjoy the mechanics of the combat enough to be happy to play through the section again, as I was for almost all of the game.
In a way that's true, but that's not how I look at it. I don't go, "Oh well I died but at least I got three more herbs and a new bracelet!" No, I think to myself, "I just played this game for an hour and got sent back to the beginning of the level when that gigantic dragon-wolf-gargoyle sat on me."
The only solution to that problem is to make games extremly easy.
But yes, that makes Demon's / Dark Souls that good. Because IF you beat a boss, it actually matters. So many game reviews nowadays contain "it will take you X hours to beat it" and that shouldn't be the case.
Anyway, if you learnt during that hour, you will be way faster and faster. I can rush quite through the game without getting slaughtered now. This wasn't possible on my first playthrough. It trains you to get great at the game. You either get great at the game or you won't beat it.
Only if games like Dark Souls don't go the Tomb Raider route to expand their audience and turn the game's challenge into a relentlessly 'guided experience'.
Only if games like Dark Souls don't go the Tomb Raider route to expand their audience and turn the game's challenge into a relentlessly 'guided experience'.
I'm frightened by this. Dark Souls was one of the very few games that a blindly trusted in and preordered it ages ago. And it didn't disappoint. It was even better than my expectations and those were high already. I seriously hope that From Software know what they are doing and won't fuck it up.
I wouldn't be surprised if we get a Dark Souls 2 that is a change of the franchise, but also get something like "D---- Souls" from the original director.
Only if games like Dark Souls don't go the Tomb Raider route to expand their audience and turn the game's challenge into a relentlessly 'guided experience'.
Like, I hate Dark Souls and how every other thread on GAF descends into a fucking circlejerk about it, but that kind of game wouldn't be more fun if it was easier. That seems like a weird concession to make
Only if games like Dark Souls don't go the Tomb Raider route to expand their audience and turn the game's challenge into a relentlessly 'guided experience'.
NV are working on it, but check the TR PC performance thread for some fixes. Disabling tesselation fixed the crash for me, but there's a fix that allows it to work.
When you are supposed to jump across to the craggy wall to latch on to it, the cage thing that you are on might create an invisible wall that may prevent you from jumping out of it. At this point you have to reload the puzzle again and hope you don't run into the bug again.
Let me articulate then why I thought Lara's progression in the game was fairly well done. The whole introductory scene is bullshit so I'll start right around the deer bit. Her killing the deer does establish fairly early on two early components of her character. The first is that she's sheltered but had training and the second is that she's willing to kill in order to survive. Her breakdown from killing the rapist seemingly isn't so much from killing him in a gruesome manner but seems more of a release of the events that had transpired up until that point. The scene goes on a bit longer than I liked however it does establish the events of the game are having a mental toll on her. She also quickly states after that killing was easier than she thought. This bit allows for later gameplay segments where the player can kill these NPCs now. Lara never really has any hangup from killing individuals. Her first priority is to survive and repeatedly states that she isn't sure she can do it. She needs constant encouragement over the radio in order to keep going. This is a natural reaction for someone in her situation.
The player can slowly see Lara taking more agency for herself such as when she wanted to check out the 2nd pilot even though Roth argued for her to leave him. This bit establishes she is becoming more comfortable with the island. The argument with Roth also foreshadows a later moment with Alex as well. Next up, there is the bit where she has to get medical supplies. This again is further reinforcement that she isn't human as the events are taking a toll on her. She even has the will later on to burn the wound shut despite the immense pain. Even when she is captured, she didn't give up and had a resilient look on her face. She's becoming more determined and the cutscene illustrates that. To skip a bit further ahead, when she gets the grenade launcher, she's on the warpath to get her friend back be it hell or high water. She's already comfortable killing these enemies and has developed a bit of a fearless streak to her. She's also becoming more suspicious of people such as Whitman. A very clear point in her development is when she is willing to sacrifice Alex in order to get the tools. She's learned Roth's lesson and is clearly a much hardened character compared to earlier in the game. She's also advanced to the point where she's not just concerned about getting off the island but rather about preventing any more people from dying and saving Sam. Radio contact also near the end is reduced and there is less encouragement towards Lara but rather Lara trying to encourage others. There is a stronger sense of isolation and Lara in return becomes more confident.
Quality post. I agree that the events within the game's story do support Lara developing into a much more trained killer. I still think there are some flaws in regards to how she reacts to some of the stuff, such as
mourning the death of her friends. It kind of makes the side-characters seem throw-away
, but this flaw does not go against the development of her as a character. Nevertheless, it seems like the arc of Lara could serve as an excellent starting point for the (inevitable?) sequel.
Substantiating claims with elaborate explanations sounds an awful lot like an essay in post form. It's a reasonable request, but not something that can be done easily and quickly to be posted in a fast moving thread on a forum.
Not to mention the fact that it's difficult to collate one's thoughts into logical and academic analysis of something you responded to emotionally. I have favourable emotional responses to music at times. The fact that I know music theory and can tell you it was the use of diminished chords that evoked the response doesn't invalidate another person's positive response who couldn't tell you why.
That said, re: Tomb Raider. I felt Lara's response to any given situation was believable and ultimately endearing. Her initial surprise at how easy it is to do the necessary to survive(kill others) that comes up in conversation with Roth. Her eventual detachment from reliance on
Roth after he dies. The way she stays at his make-shift funeral to sort things out mentally, at the expense of staying together with the other survivors.
The way she goes after
Alex despite his communication to the contrary. She knows she's likely walking into a dangerous situation. She later leaves him to die for the good of herself and the other survivors. Which is something she found difficult to do earlier in the game with the pilot.
Her later exclamations of anger and determination that are casually thrown out during gun fights round out the final shift to courageous. Her eventual belief in her instincts over the logical and understandable response of the other characters.
Her character progression in terms of gameplay and equipment serves to support the overall theme as well.
Simply put, there are plenty of affecting, human moments and the development of her character is paced well over the game's length to reach it's admittedly predictable but satisfying ending. Explaining it point by point does it a disservice honestly, becomes it's the combination that sells it, including the players investment from control of Lara. Going into more depth and spoilers doesn't seem the right thing to do for a game that's only a day or two past release.
These conversations need an element of give and take. You can infer the success of some things based on your experience with the game, whether you agree or not. For example, if I didn't like the performance, would I have ever cared about the character? Unlikely.
Another nice post. Much, much better. I didn't want you to explain it bit by bit, I just wanted more in-depth reasoning on why you found the characterization and development good. It also helps me understand a bit more on the game, as it informs, counters and contributes to my opinion/assessment on the game. Therefore, thanks for the clarification and input on how well-executed Lara's character arc is - it's much appreciated as it also elevates the discussion in the thread.
Tomb Raider is going a long way towards cementing my belief that 2013 will be substantially better for games than 2012 was (even though I don't think 2012 was actually as bad as many do around here).
Between this, the successful (other than sales) DmC reboot, BioShock Infinite, Heart of the Swarm, The Last of Us and a few more games I know that I'm going to love that I don't even know about yet, this year is already blowing me away.
Tomb Raider alone is better than almost every game I played last year, anyway.
Played Arkham City? I think it sets the standard for third person exploration, combat, stealth traversal and cinematic styling driven by gameplay. Puzzles included.
I'm still basking in the afterglow of that masterpiece.
Tomb Raider is going a long way towards cementing my belief that 2013 will be substantially better for games than 2012 was (even though I don't think 2012 was actually as bad as many do around here).
Between this, the successful (other than sales) DmC reboot, BioShock Infinite, Heart of the Swarm, The Last of Us and a few more games I know that I'm going to love that I don't even know about yet, this year is already blowing me away.
Tomb Raider alone is better than almost every game I played last year, anyway.
I agree with this a lot... I may have loved Sleeping Dogs and XCom last year, but they weren't as entertaining on every level as Tomb Raider was from start to finish. Whoever was responsible for culling and pulling in the reigns on this game from a design stand point did a fantastic job leaving what was in the game very lean and sturdy surface to play on.
Words cannot express my disappointment in you right now! From a shooter stand point Spec Ops is much better, the enemies aren't completely brain dead like TRs.
In 10 years when I think back to this generation of games, I will think about games like The Walking Dead, Spec Ops, Red Dead Redemption, Dark Souls, etc. All are landmark achievements for games and move the medium forward towards an idealistic vision of what I want games to be.
Tomb Raider does not do that, at all, not even close. It's not on that level. But straight up, it's more fun to play.
Tomb Raider's success, ultimately, is in service of a potential sequel. It does a good job of setting up the possibility of continuing adventures with a Lara you actually care about this time.
It's like a better Assassin's Creed 1 in that regard.
