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Toonami |OT5| If we die in this thread, we die in real life

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Puts Thundercats above Deadman

tumblr_m9t4160Z5i1rbvksbo1_500.gif

Thundercats is probably just as bad as Deadman Wonderland. I just didn't hate it nearly as much. I was mostly apathetic to Thundercats in its mediocrity (didn't see much of it). At that level, everything is awful and it's just nitpicking in which order you rank them.
 

Moaradin

Member
Since list are the hot stuff these days:

Top Tier:
One Piece (manga material)
Cowboy Bebop
Casshern Sins
Soul Eater (manga material)

High Tier:
Big O
FMA: Brotherhood
Symbionic Titan
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex

Mid Tier:
Naruto
Inuyasha
Soul Eater (non-manga material)
One Piece (non-manga material)

Low Tier:
Samurai Seven
IGPX

Trash But Entertaining Tier:
Sword Art Online
Deadman Wonderland

Shit Tier:
Bleach
Thundercats
Tenchi Muyo GXP

Haven't watched:
Eureka Seven
 

789shadow

Banned
My tier list.

Haven't watched at all/enough of:

Deadman Wonderland
Ghost in the Shell
IGPX
Eureka Seven
The Big O
Inuyasha
Sword Art Online (it's only had two episodes, but it'll probably go into Shit Tier)

Shit Tier:
Bleach (the stuff that's been on Toonami)
Samurai 7
That show
Thundercats

Mid Tier:
Naruto

Top Tier:
One Piece (the stuff that's coming up at least)
Soul Eater
Casshern Sins
Cowboy Bebop
Sym-Bionic Titan
 
In a world where a 12 year old can be a lethal assassin who can create lightning from his body and other hunters turn
real people into video game characters on an island
mcxc is upset about talking bugs. He completely misses the themes and powerful emotional moments of the arc because "bugs are a dumb villain"

I'm upset because they look generic and it's fucking stupid to hear bugs speaking Japanese.
Don't even get me started on how they magically gain the ability to use nen even though it takes the most talented of humans awhile to master. Nen battles are supposed to be about the skill and strategy of the user (Ex. Kurapika vs Ubogin) but the ants simply overpowered their opponents, they weren't particually skilled in their application. Hisoka is a good villain and great fighter because of his flexibility and creativeness when it comes to nen. The move away from skill deciding battles to brute force was a mistake.

The pacing is terrible, especially compared to the previous arcs. Instead of going from point A-B-C there are detours throughout that drag the arc out longer than it needs to be. Simply put, this arc is erratic.

Meruem is ridiculously overpowered (Neetero, one of the stongest nen users in the WORLD can't scratch this dude but a generic bomb can? Get the fuck out of here with that) and a lazy clone of Cell/Frieza.

Mereum.png


I know Togashi hasn't exactly been creative when it's come to Hunter x Hunter but this is embarrassing.

An interesting character in Kite is killed off prematurely which is a damn shame. I really wanted to see more of his ability and it's weird that a Hunter of his calibur can be murdered pretty much effortlessly by some furry.

kite-hunter-x-hunter-293x380.jpg

goodnight, sweet prince

Don't sit here and try to treat me like a fool. I get the underlying themes of genocide, "master" race creation and corruption but they have no emotional weight considering the absurdity of the situation. This whole bullshit arc has lost what hooked me in - the adventure. The Chimera Ant arc is focused on power and fighting rather than exploration. It lacks the charm of the Hunter Examination/Heaven's Arena and the complexity of Yorknew/Greed Island.

The continued character development of Gon and Killua is nice to see but there are too many squandered opportunities with other members of the cast in my opinion. I don't like it as much as the other arcs.

Thundercats is probably just as bad as Deadman Wonderland. I just didn't hate it nearly as much. I was mostly apathetic to Thundercats in its mediocrity (didn't see much of it). At that level, everything is awful and it's just nitpicking in which order you rank them.

I'm just messing with ya man, this type of thing is completely subjective. I love Bleach but most people think it's terrible.

He means they of other GAF Sub-Pockets are watching.

Am I supposed to care or something?
 
You're being picky about bugs talking in an anime but not some dude turning into a big giant butterfly in Bleach? Bleach is nothing more than DBZ on steroids with too many characters to bother caring about.
 
You're being picky about bugs talking in an anime but not some dude turning into a big giant butterfly in Bleach? Bleach is nothing more than DBZ on steroids with too many characters to bother caring about.

Character design is subjective, so yes. And if you bother to actually read what I post you'll see my issues with the Chimera Ant arc go much deeper than that.

And I really don't give a shit what you think about Bleach. Obviously it must be doing something right considering it's the highest rated show on the block and very popular in Japan. You don't see me here bashing shows I don't like, all I do is offer up constructive criticism. I'm a big fan of HxH, just not this arc. Read between the lines instead of going into attack mode.
 

Moaradin

Member
I'm not gonna highlight that post but King's design is awesome. It's supposed to be a homage to Cell apparently. His personality seems like he's gonna be crazy as fuck judging from the last episode.

And Kite is boss.
 
There is so much wrong with that post I don't even know where to start, it just hurts my brain reading it

Dude, you're not even worth responding to anymore. There's valid criticism to be had and instead of making an effort at discussion you just dismiss any opinion that doesn't fit your narrow point of view. At least other people in this thread make attempts at backing up their statements or breaking down opposing viewpoints.
 
Dude, you're not even worth responding to anymore. There's valid criticism to be had and instead of making an effort at discussion you just dismiss any opinion that doesn't fit your narrow point of view. At least other people in this thread make attempts at backing up their statements or breaking down opposing viewpoints.

Oh I will don't you worry, I just hate posting anything complex on my phone.
 
I'm not gonna highlight that post but King's design is awesome. It's supposed to be a homage to Cell apparently. His personality seems like he's gonna be crazy as fuck judging from the last episode.

And Kite is boss.

Yeah, he's clearly a nod to Cell from DBZ but I just feel like the design is lazy. Togashi could have kept his personality as that of a self absorbed dude who believes he was created to rule the world but made him look a little more unique. There's parallels between the Cell Saga and Chimera Ant arc in terms of genocide, overwhelming powers, master race creation, etc which is cool but kind of blatantly stolen.

Mereum.png


vs

180px-CellSecondFormNV...png


Kite is one of my favorite characters despite how little we saw of him. I really wish he could have been fleshed out a little more as a character,
it's a damn shame he got killed by a cat lady like it was nothing.

EDIT: Removed an image for those on mobile to make scrolling easier
 
The Cell Saga was one the best arcs in DBZ. The Chimera arc is way better than Greed Island.

There's only 4 arcs in Dragon Ball Z and the only reason the Cell Saga isn't last is because the Buu Saga was a trainwreck.

Frieza>Saiyan>Cell>Buu is the only correct answer.

Greed Island is better but hey, opinions. It's good to know you've made that statement prematurely even though you just started the arc and it isn't even finished being animated. See the whole story play out via the anime or better yet, read the manga and then form an opinion.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
The thing is the ant arc subverts all those things. King isn't like Cell when it comes down to it. He's torn between his humanity and his ant side in a way Cell never was. That's what's so good about the arc. It forces you to question who are the monsters.
The bomb they used on King was a nuke with ebola in it, it's literally the most fucked up thing they could have used and they hit him at point blank range with it.
King's whole journey is about self-discovery and the choices we make, he was born from the ant Queen and
his powers come from the devoured bodies of dozens of regular humans and nen users. Which is how the ants gain their power, by devouring others and taking the best of them into themselves
. Despite all his Cell like rhetoric
he finds value in the life of the girl he plays the game against, a weak little blind girl he can't seem to beat.

Kite
's death is to put Gon on a path of revenge at any cost, it turns him instantly from the little kid we knew into an adult before he's ready for it
. The way it comes to a head is disgusting and depressing and a million other things all at once. Also you should know
Kite isn't dead, he was reborn as an ant. The devoured humans get reborn as ants, though at first they may not even remember it.

The arc is about growing up, sometimes it all happens at once. One day you're a kid with no cares in the world and the next you're an old man full of regret.
 
The thing is the ant arc subverts all those things. King isn't like Cell when it comes down to it. He's torn between his humanity and his ant side in a way Cell never was. That's what's so good about the arc. It forces you to question who are the monsters.
The bomb they used on King was a nuke with ebola in it, it's literally the most fucked up thing they could have used and they hit him at point blank range with it.
King's whole journey is about self-discovery and the choices we make, he was born from the ant Queen and
his powers come from the devoured bodies of dozens of regular humans and nen users. Which is how the ants gain their power, by devouring others and taking the best of them into themselves
. Despite all his Cell like rhetoric
he finds value in the life of the girl he plays the game against, a weak little blind girl he can't seem to beat.

Kite
's death is to put Gon on a path of revenge at any cost, it turns him instantly from the little kid we knew into an adult before he's ready for it
. The way it comes to a head is disgusting and depressing and a million other things all at once. Also you should know
Kite isn't dead, he was reborn as an ant. The devoured humans get reborn as ants, though at first they may not even remember it.

The arc is about growing up, sometimes it all happens at once. One day you're a kid with no cares in the world and the next you're an old man full of regret.

Thank you, I'll add to this later but I dunno how anyone could talk about the Chimera Ant arc good or bad without once mentioning
Komugi
considering the major impact she has on the entire arc.
 
The thing is the ant arc subverts all those things. King isn't like Cell when it comes down to it. He's torn between his humanity and his ant side in a way Cell never was. That's what's so good about the arc. It forces you to question who are the monsters.
The bomb they used on King was a nuke with ebola in it, it's literally the most fucked up thing they could have used and they hit him at point blank range with it.
King's whole journey is about self-discovery and the choices we make, he was born from the ant Queen and
his powers come from the devoured bodies of dozens of regular humans and nen users. Which is how the ants gain their power, by devouring others and taking the best of them into themselves
. Despite all his Cell like rhetoric
he finds value in the life of the girl he plays the game against, a weak little blind girl he can't seem to beat.

Kite
's death is to put Gon on a path of revenge at any cost, it turns him instantly from the little kid we knew into an adult before he's ready for it
. The way it comes to a head is disgusting and depressing and a million other things all at once. Also you should know
Kite isn't dead, he was reborn as an ant. The devoured humans get reborn as ants, though at first they may not even remember it.

The arc is about growing up, sometimes it all happens at once. One day you're a kid with no cares in the world and the next you're an old man full of regret.

When we are first introduced to Mereum he is very similar to Cell. They both are completely self absorbed and believe they were created to rule over humans. When I was complaining about the similarities though, it was more so in relation to their designs. Obviously Togashi used Toriyama's designs as inspiration, I just feel they are a little to close to the source material. Basically, I wanted a more unique looking villain, especially after the generic foot soldiers.

Where Mereum and Cell start to deviate
is in their humanity. When cell absorbs people he doesn't become more "human", it just increases his power. Mereum on the other hand, has human genes within him and like you said, makes him question just exactly who the monsters really are. This really comes to a head when he meets Komugi who really humbles Mereum and curbs his desire to act only according to his instincts. This creates a philosophical struggle where he starts to question the meaning of his existence and why certain creatures get to live/die, etc. I get that and it's very thought provoking, Mereum shows his actual depth as a character in these moments.

The battle between Neetero and Mereum was entirely unsatisfying though. Seriously, this was probably my biggest disappointment thus far. Togashi simply made Mereum too powerful which makes it even lamer that he dies due to poison. You would think the chairman of the Hunter association would be able to do something to damage this dude but no, Togashi relies on a conventional weapon to kill this amazingly deep character he'd been building up for 80+ chapters in the most anti-climactic fashion imaginable.

I also get that Kite's death was meant to "push" Gon to another level in his development but it was just incredibly lame the way he died without a fight to some cat lady. I really, really wanted to see him fleshed out more and learn what other weapons he could wield using his special ability.

Oh, and I'm aware that Kite has been reborn as a female ant (weird) with all his memories intact.
I thought the arc was erratically paced and like I said earlier, didn't flow as well as the others. It's also
very battle heavy but the strategic concept of nen kind of flew out the window. Previously, nen battles revolved around strategy and application rather than having the most powerful ability. Like I said earlier, Hisoka is such a great fighter because of his flexibility and creativeness in battle. The Hunters fighting the ants used creative applications but this was a one sided tactic considering the ants didn't use nen in this fashion. They simply felt that if they had enough power they could wipe out the humans, I felt like this put less of an emphasis on strategic fighting. Complex nen concepts introduced on Greed Island weren't even touched on in the Chimera Ant arc. What happened to shifting your aura for offense/defense or using gyo?

How many chapters is the arc?

132
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Well it was anti-climactic because that wasn't the climax, the climax was what came after. It was
King's search for Komugi while the royal guard tried to stop him and kill her
that was the climax. Everything hinged on that,
if he hadn't found her he wouldn't have found his humanity again and the world would have been over. He did and so that was the end of it.
 
All these spoilers make want to read the manga but I heard this author likes to take long hiatuses. You appreciate Kubo and Kishimoto pumping out chapters every week.
 
Well it was anti-climactic because that wasn't the climax, the climax was what came after. It was
King's search for Komugi while the royal guard tried to stop him and kill her
that was the climax. Everything hinged on that,
if he hadn't found her he wouldn't have found his humanity again and the world would have been over. He did and so that was the end of it.

Anti-climactic was the wrong choice of words because you're right, it wasn't the climax. The fight was completely unsatisfying in every sense of the word and that is what I was trying to convey.

All these spoilers make want to read the manga but I heard this author likes to take long hiatuses. You appreciate Kubo and Kishimoto pumping out chapters every week.

Haven't read Naruto past the Chunin Exam and Bleach is on a 5 week hiatus dude
 
I'm not sure what I can add that hasn't already been said by B-Dubs, I apologize for my comments earlier they sounded much more cynical then they meant to. It's not that I don't want to give your opinions MCXC a valid response I just hate typing long drawn out post on an iphone and only just got home.

I do agree with a few things you did post MCXC, I think the design of the King is just okay and is almost a bit too Cell-ish, though his far superior character made me warm up to the design. I also didn't think much of the fight between
Netero and the king
because honestly I was so frustrated at how
Netero had decided a fight to the death was the only option when the King was not interested in fighting anymore
. I understand the frustration about the finale but the point you miss is that
Togashi is going for a War of the Worlds style defeat of the King, both the King and the Aliens were leagues above the people they were fighting, but a disease they couldn't fight was their death.
. It also ties into a big part of the King's character that he is
still human on the inside, the climax of the arc even establishes this when he chooses not to get revenge like an ant but look for his love as a human
.

Also I'd like to add that the death of
Kite
serves another role in the plot and a big part of the theme that HxH always has underlying. Gon and Killua from the very beginning have always been way in over their head but have managed to get so far due to their crazy potential. Gon and Killua's youth finally catches up to them in this arc showing how truly in over their heads they are. Had they not insisted on going along then
Kite probably would have been able to defeat Pitou
yet they are still brought along because of the potential
Kite
sees in them.

Eventually Gon and Killua lose out to the older characters and are left behind which gives them a chance to befriend
members of the Chimera Ant's who don't wish to see a bloody conflict
. At the same time they're doing this, the King meets
Komugi and begins to form a friendship/love for her.
. This is meant to create a sense of confusion and frustration in the audience as we see from both side
peace between the ants and humans is possible
.

I'll admit, I teared up at the final chapter of the arc, it's emotional and gripping and truly shows how masterful Togashi is in turning your expectations upside down. That's honestly why I got upset at your dismissal of the arc MCXC, you're anger seemed focused on the fact the villains were ants and other specific elements when those really weren't the parts you were supposed to take away. It seems like you got so stuck up on that fact you missed out on the more interesting ideas and developments.

I didn't really have an issue with the pacing though I can see how if you weren't dragged in emotionally the way most people were it would seem to drag. I'm sure the constant hiatuses the finale of the arc went though did not help things though I'm sure the anime will alleviate some of those problems. Again I'm sorry for sounding so dismissive earlier, the way you feel very passionate about Bleach I feel about this arc of HxH, it and Water 7/Enies Lobby of One Piece really hit me with feelings I didn't think an anime/manga could make me feel.
 

yami4ct

Member
I'm not gonna highlight that post but King's design is awesome. It's supposed to be a homage to Cell apparently. His personality seems like he's gonna be crazy as fuck judging from the last episode.

And Kite is boss.

Yep. Totally purposeful. Togashi and Toriyama are pretty close friends apparently. Toriyama has sort of been a mentor to Togshi throughout his career from what I've heard. He puts in many Toriyama homages (KIng being the most obvious) as a sign of deep professional respect for the guy.
 
I liked the Majin Buu arc.

It was okay, it just felt rushed because I think Toriyama was tired of doing DBZ and wanted to end it. I really hate Buu as a villain, he made me rage so much as a kid:

- immortal unless every atom is destroyed
- infinite stamina
- regeneration
- impervious to pain
- can copy techniques just by seeing them once
- absorbs any being that is remotely close to rivaling his power (the biggest load of shit ever)
- telekinesis
- turns people into candy

tumblr_mqnbzkQBHC1qk9f8bo1_400.gif
 

MikeMyers

Member
It was okay, it just felt rushed because I think Toriyama was tired of doing DBZ and wanted to end it. I really hate Buu as a villain, he made me rage so much as a kid:

Aww, I loved Buu as a villain. He cracked me up especially the whole thing with Hercule. But to each his own, I suppose.
 
Aww, I loved Buu as a villain. He cracked me up especially the whole thing with Hercule. But to each his own, I suppose.

The funny thing is I don't dislike Buu because he's flat out evil (excluding "good" buu) like Piccolo (formerly), Raditz, Vegeta (formerly), Frieza and Cell. The reason I hate him is because he's overpowered. Anytime somebody comes close to rivaling his power they just end up getting absorbed. I felt like that was a cheap cop out on top of the fact that he has all these other ridiculous abilities such as regeneration, pain resistance, ridiculous base strength, etc. It was Superman syndrome in anime form.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I actually wished they delved more into the Phantom Troupe, but now they look way weaker than The Punitive Force and The King/Royal Guards.

It's not really about power levels though. They don't have the same raw power but they've got some crazy Nen. Besides even
the ants look like shit compared to what's coming
. (manga spoilers)
 

Rewrite

Not as deep as he thinks
I don't understand how you can say
Netero's
fight was awful/disappointing when he did more than Yamamoto ever did in the entire history of Bleach.

HxH related.
 

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
Doesn't he have kids? I'm hoping they get on his case too

They have two.
Considering how well HxH volumes sell despite the limited presence in Jump, Togashi doesn't need to work again.
What about Takeuchi? New Sailor Moon anime = more money. Plus I'm sure she's getting a cut of the American manga reprints (which are selling better than Naruto).
 

Toxi

Banned
I've seen 14 episodes of Sword Art Online, and it already feels like 13 episodes too many. That first episode is a good start, but then it all falls apart. The hero is boring, the love story is just painful to watch, the action scenes are often bad, and the ending to the first arc is just bullshit.

I knew it was bad, but wow, I did not know it was that bad. At least they make good riffing material.
 
I don't understand how you can say
Netero's
fight was awful/disappointing when he did more than Yamamoto ever did in the entire history of Bleach.

HxH related.

1. That statement is flat out wrong, you literally have no idea what you're talking about. Just this arc (Fake Karakura Town) Yamamoto has:

- Trapped Aizen, Gin, and Tosen for a period of time so that the captains could focus on destroying the Espada and their Fraccion
- Set up four pillars around the fake town as a barrier to keep the real one in Soul Society, thus saving thousands of lives
- Killed Ayon and Harribel's fraccion after they injured some of the lieutenants
- Beat the shit out of Wonderweiss with his bare hands after he sealed his zanpaktou

Throughout ALL of HxH
Netero
:

- Trolls Gon and Killua during the Hunter exam
- Assembled the Chimera Ant Extermination team
- Got murdered without doing shit

2. What does Yamamoto have to do with my criticism of the Chimera Ant arc?
 
They have two.
Considering how well HxH volumes sell despite the limited presence in Jump, Togashi doesn't need to work again.
What about Takeuchi? New Sailor Moon anime = more money. Plus I'm sure she's getting a cut of the American manga reprints (which are selling better than Naruto).

Are they reprints I thought they were never released before in English?
 
I'm assuming Ging is a lot stronger than Netero.

We don't know his abilities yet but I think it would be a bit of a stretch to assume he is a lot stronger than Netero.

spoilers follow below

Netero is probably the strongest human character we've seen in the series yet. He's incredibly quick for his age, even more so than some spliced together Chimera Ant sentient bug king. His speed was clearly superior during the fight even through Mereum was ultimately able to hit him. His hand to hand combat and nen techniques are also pretty freaking ridiculous too as evidenced by the 100 type (I forget the name) technique that he used.

Ging has to be pretty strong considering Netero already claimed he was one of the type 5 nen users in the world. Also, he was able to capture Razor who is pretty darn powerful in his own right. Ging has also shown that he is extremely intelligent seeing how he has accurately predicted every move Gon has made thus far. However, as far as brute physical strength goes, he's probably comparable to Netero. I highly doubt Ging's abilities far exceed them.
 

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
I mean don't Death Note and DBZ make the top 10 all the time still?

Death Note certainly does (no idea how, it somehow manages to beat One Piece in the overall yearly sales). DBZ probably will soon with the fully-colored manga coming out.

But yeah, the American manga market is pretty weak. At least Attack on Titan is doing well, and it's getting a speed-up.
 
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