AstroZombie
Banned
If you do not vote for turn-based combat you're a bad person.
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Torment: Tides of Numenera Kickstarter by InXile [Complete; $4.3 million funded]
- Thread starter Perkel
- Start date
trab pu kcip
Member
I've been thinking...RTwP could be nice too. it would pay more tribute to planescape torment and we already get da turn-based game with wasteland 2...hm hm.
I guess turn-based will be people's choice though, it already has more votes
I think if the market were in a different situation I'd possibly lean towards real time, but there's an insane dearth of real time systems and even FF sounds like it may dump turn based (unless it goes for mobile anyway, though that was always a real time system that may be replaced with an action system.)
AstroZombie
Banned
No. Paying "tribute" to Planescape's combat is the last thing I want them to do.
trab pu kcip
Member
it isn't that bad. a few tweaks here and there... ;p
edit: off topic but I approve of the fact that a lot of torment fans also seem to be space cowboys
we're drifters after all
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I am getting such a ladyboner from this chart:
Dito on the Real Time with Pause.
Dito on the Real Time with Pause.
I love it in Kotor, and Mass Effect 1. Those games we're near perfection. Older Infinity Engine games are okay at it... I played those more as if they were turn based and just let things sort of auto-play out when I felt there wasn't much i needed to concentrate on.
last pure tbwp game (personally I wouldn't call mass effect a tbwp game, more like a shooter-rpg hybrid at best when it comes to combat) I played and enjoyed was dragon age origins, and while I didn't 'mind' the real time shenanigans, I didn't particularly felt it benefited from being real time all that much (though it did look pretty fucking cool)
I wouldn't mind tbwp for torment, tho, as there's some legacy thing from planescape and it may feel more familiar that way
I wouldn't mind tbwp for torment, tho, as there's some legacy thing from planescape and it may feel more familiar that way
Sentenza
Gold Member
I'm generally favorable to turn based battles, but I'm not implicitly hostile to RTwP, frankly.
Both have their pros and cons, and depending on the gameplay and overall "feel" of the game one or the other will work better. I think for Torment with its "Crises" mechanics the turn based approach seems to be better, because it allows for great control of the timing without putting the player under too much pressure (with RTwP the time would still run, even when pausing).
Would there be anything preventing a RTWP system to have an option which would pause automatically after every round (10-15 seconds feels about right), making it effectively turn-based if that option was set?
I think that's perhaps the best of all worlds given that while I think turn-based is great for interesting fights, occasionally you just need to squish a few giant rats and going through the rigamarole of turn-based actions for that is more long-winded than is necessary
I think that's perhaps the best of all worlds given that while I think turn-based is great for interesting fights, occasionally you just need to squish a few giant rats and going through the rigamarole of turn-based actions for that is more long-winded than is necessary
TB if there will be small amount of combat.
RTwP if there will be ton of combat (like BG)
Biggest TB downside is that it makes every small fight to long. Best case of use for TB would be small amount of fights in game like FFT or Tactics Ogre.
RTwP makes small fights very fast and they don't drag forever.
Best case would be RTwP based 100% on TB rule set. When big fight comes in and you need proper thinking and tactic then you switch to TB.
Wasteland 2 is doing something like that and it worked well in Fallout Tactics.
RTwP if there will be ton of combat (like BG)
Biggest TB downside is that it makes every small fight to long. Best case of use for TB would be small amount of fights in game like FFT or Tactics Ogre.
RTwP makes small fights very fast and they don't drag forever.
Best case would be RTwP based 100% on TB rule set. When big fight comes in and you need proper thinking and tactic then you switch to TB.
Wasteland 2 is doing something like that and it worked well in Fallout Tactics.
trab pu kcip
Member
well for me wasteland 2 will fill the turn-based itch, that's what I was thinking about.
Strongly preferring one option over another doesn't mean someone is "implicitly hostile". But it's good we know it bothers you.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
If you want the TB experience, you can have it with RTwP by just enabling auto-pause to the max, but the other way around doesn't really work (unless you got the ability to "skip" smaller battles, which I'm not too keen on).
AstroZombie
Banned
No, you can't. Even if you pause after every moment is closer to phase-based combat than it is to proper TB combat.
Sentenza
Gold Member
...What?Strongly preferring one option over another doesn't mean someone is "implicitly hostile". But it's good we know it bothers you.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Okay, after having given it some thought, I'm not totally opposed of TB-combat.
I generally prefer turn-based combat when you control few characters (or only one, à la Fallout1/2) or when there's movement/cover/flanking involved (Jagged Alliance, XCOM). In an six characters, infinity engine-like RPG I don't think it would be a great choice, but why the hell not.
trab pu kcip
Member
I could live with both outcomes tbh, but with all the TB nostalgia lately I feel like it would be nice to also have a modern + solid RTwP game.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
I'm a little confused on the difference between Indigo and Gold tides. I've read the whole Kickstarter update and I'm still not sure how substantial the divide is.
For combat, I strongly prefer turn-based. RTWP with automatic pausing isn't at all the same for a number of reasons, and every single game that's tried to straddle the line between the two systems has suffered as a result (see: Arcanum, Fallout: Tactics).
I'm not saying I hate RTWP, and I'm sure I'll still enjoy Torment regardless. BG2 had great combat. But that was because of the amazing encounter design, not because RTWP was particularly good. Frankly, autopausing was incredibly slow, and manual pausing was a boring, tedious metagame layered on top of combat.
I also don't buy the argument that TB is bad for small trash encounters. Shadowrun Returns had a few of those, and the TB-ness was absolutely not a problem. Besides, if the game is filled with lots of trash encounters that the player just wants to bypass as quickly as possible, that's a major, fundamental problem with the combat that would bring down the game with either battle system.
For combat, I strongly prefer turn-based. RTWP with automatic pausing isn't at all the same for a number of reasons, and every single game that's tried to straddle the line between the two systems has suffered as a result (see: Arcanum, Fallout: Tactics).
I'm not saying I hate RTWP, and I'm sure I'll still enjoy Torment regardless. BG2 had great combat. But that was because of the amazing encounter design, not because RTWP was particularly good. Frankly, autopausing was incredibly slow, and manual pausing was a boring, tedious metagame layered on top of combat.
I also don't buy the argument that TB is bad for small trash encounters. Shadowrun Returns had a few of those, and the TB-ness was absolutely not a problem. Besides, if the game is filled with lots of trash encounters that the player just wants to bypass as quickly as possible, that's a major, fundamental problem with the combat that would bring down the game with either battle system.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Really?
Gold is self-serving, Indigo is altruistic.
This chart shows that at least:
https://torment.uservoice.com/forums/231763-combat-vote-forum-backer-only-
If you vote for RTwP I will find you and break your kneecaps
If you vote for RTwP I will find you and break your kneecaps
https://torment.uservoice.com/forums/231763-combat-vote-forum-backer-only-
If you vote for RTwP I will find you and break your kneecaps
What exactly are the TB people wanting out of this?
FFTactics or Banner Saga like stuff?
Xcom?
Fallout 1/2?
Never played it. Mind explaining it a bit to me?
Edit: I don't think the explanation I gave was very good, so here's a screenshot of combat in which you can see the turn order:
witchedwiz
Member
I'll give you my address then..https://torment.uservoice.com/forums/231763-combat-vote-forum-backer-only-
If you vote for RTwP I will find you and break your kneecaps
Real time + pause.. Much more satisfying
I'll give you my address then..
Real time + pause.. Much more satisfying
Waiting for that PM with my aluminum bat ready.
Edit: I don't think the explanation I gave was very good, so here's a screenshot of combat in which you can see the turn order:
I remember when this game came out. I loved the cover, but then I saw those reviews.....Needless to say, I didn't buy the game.
GOG had a huge DnD sale and I eventually got the game earlier this year along with a bunch of other titles, still haven't bothered playing it yet.
Make sure you get the Circle of 8 community fix pack. It's a great game, but the official version is broken in half.
Sentenza
Gold Member
You made a mistake.