Mercury Fred
Banned
Yes. Yes we are, and it's going to go from repulsive to full on vomit-inducing.
Trump says he will 'most likely' not take part in Fox debate
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RPGCrazied
Member
I legit physically cringe every time I see Trump on TV.
Trump implied many of us are dangerous criminals (undocumented immigrants as a whole, not just Mexico even though it's the main target). That is not arguable.
In addition, why would he be most popular with racists? Why are you and others justifying or trying to get around what he has said about somebody like me? I'm a target of his rhetoric, so please answer, I'm here.
EatinOlives
Member
This is why dogwhistles work so effectively. Diet racists can hide behind excuses like "he didn't say anything about skin color, he's just pointing out the statistics of black-on-black crime!!!" to hide their true sentiments about the group they're judging.
I mean there's people who genuinely believe that Trump's stance on illegal immigration, his wall proposal, his statements regarding rapists, etc,. have nothing to do with him being bigoted against Mexicans as a people. This kind of two-faced double speak is what keeps bigotry going round and round at this day and age.
hydrophilic attack
Member
This is the worst part of Trump's popularity. Before people used to censor themselves from airing their bigoted views, but after Trump's rising popularity, these things that were once considered taboo are now seen as perfectly acceptable. It is poisoning public discourse, and it's spilling over onto gaf
vicissitudes
Banned
Xenophobic is closest, although it's a bit strong. I would say Trump is very concerned over some foreigner groups rather than downright hating them, but I suppose you could call him xenophobic. It's a matter of degree though - any isolationist is inherently xenophobic to some degree, and many Americans have isolationist tendencies (say, staying out of the Middle East). I would be vary of a candidate who is extremely xenophobic, and for me personally Trump has not crossed that line yet.
Would certainly disagree with white supremacist, as nothing I've seen from Trump suggests he thinks white people are better. He doesn't even talk about Caucasians as a race so that's moot. You could infer he thinks Americans are better, but again that makes him more of a nationalist.
Bigot? As in someone who is intolerant to the opinion of others? Judging by the intolerance I'm getting here for my opinion that Trump is not a racist (but more of a nationalist/xenophobe) I think it's funny there are so many who rush to point fingers.
I know, it's mind boggling
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
He literally fucking retweets white supremacists
You sure seem to have some strict standards on what makes somebody racist. So I'm guessing unless they specifically say I'm racist or I hate so and so people because of their skin, or I'm better because I'm White, they aren't racist?
RPGCrazied
Member
And has robocalls coming from them too, urging people to vote for Trump.
Stop playing word games. This shit is clearly on a spectrum:
Isolationist
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Patriotic
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Nationalistic
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Jingoistic
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Xenophobic
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Racist
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Supremacist
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Nazi
So trump is somewhere down past xenophobic in the clearly racist to supremacist zone. Stop enabling bigotry by shielding it with your deflections.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Also yes that totally fits your made up definition of bigot
EatinOlives
Member
You're arm-flailing.
"Trump is very concerned over some foreigner groups but he totally isn't bigoted against Muslims/Mexicans whatsoever"
"Any isolationist is xenophobic"
Because he hasn't outright said he thinks white people are better, he must therefore not be a white supremacist. Other than the fact that he has had some very "choice" words for all minorities except for whites. I wouldn't have to "infer" that he thinks Americans are better. Of course he does. But being a nationalist does not preclude him from going further into being a white supremacist. He retweets people who are overtly white supremacist. If your next line of defense is "well he's not saying it directly, he's only retweeting it!", congratulations, you've been hooked on Trump's dogwhistle hook, line and sinker.
Yes, he's a bigot. That you're pulling the typical "if you're intolerant of bigotry, you yourself are a bigot" is actually a pretty good indication that we're right on the money.
it's about sending a message
not to him, but to the world
I guess if it wasn't GAF I wouldn't bother, but I feel like the people reading along would appreciate it. That, and I kind of enjoy semantic debate at this point - what has Metaphoreous done to me?!
most prominently in the sense that it is the most notable and prominent way that the classifications of "mexican" and "muslim" are applied by the average person is through the identification of different skin tones - and perhaps in conjunction with the beard for islamic people as demonstrated by when people assaulted sikh people after 9/11 - or a general observation of how racial slurs are levied upon people [i've had some very interesting discussions with mixed race people about how they are treated and referred to and how it changes based on context (demonstrating that stereotype matching is being employed, i.e. you would expect to see a
_____ at/doing ______ because that's where/what they are/do) and (i kid you not) room lighting]tangentally, this is why the "muslim ban" proposal is absolutely ludicrous - going to get in character here for a moment - for muslims are crafty and even if they supposedly have documentation of not being muslim it could all be faked by the terrorist groups
therefore anyone who is "suspected" of being muslim will be barred from entering as well and people who do not look like prototypic muslims will be let through even if they believe in a variation of abrahamic religion that is slightly diffeent than the most common one in america
and as we've touched upon before, the most notable differentiating characteristic between people who are not prototypically muslim and are prototypically muslim is skin color
vicissitudes
Banned
I could also say "there are many people in America who are dangerous criminals." Is that statement controversial? Does that mean I hate Americans and I'm a racist against America? Of course not.
Trump says: "Many Mexicans who cross the border are criminals." I think he's exaggerating, but certainly there are people who cross the border who are criminals. This statement alone does not target you, if you are Hispanic-American (I'm guessing).
Media takes that and twists it into: "Trump says all Mexicans are criminals and bad people." This would target you, if you are Hispanic-American.
So who's really at fault here? Certainly you can say Trump started the whole thing and he used inflammatory language, but the dishonest media also played a big part in that.
Why is Trump so popular with racists? Because Trump has a tendency to use grand, flowery rhetoric (just read his best-selling book "Art of the Deal"), and when it comes to certain topics, it's easy for racists to twist what he says in order to propel their own agendas. Unfortunate situation to be sure, but I don't think it's accurate to label Trump a racist, and the only reason certain people are doing so is in order to vilify him because they don't agree with some of his policies.
At least once its out in the open, you can address it and dismantle it. We'll make it through this together, GAF.
Ah got it. So:
I'll assume you are not one of those people. Can I ask you then why you are a supporter of Trump? I mean obviously he resonates with you on some level.
His words.
Not some of them are bringing crime, not some of them are rapists, just some of them however are good people.
He said this after two supporter invoked his name when attacking a hispanic homeless person.
Trump did not say these words. Not even close. His remarks are way more inflammatory and incorrect.
For all your whining about the media, the only person twisting his words is you.
The results of the Birth Certificate investigation in Hawaii that were never revealed.
Oh fuck that's right he's a birther as well.
vicissitudes
Banned
Trump, interview on Fox News Media Buzz, July 5, 2015
What can be simpler or more accurately stated? The Mexican Government is forcing their most unwanted people into the United States. They are, in many cases, criminals, drug dealers, rapists, etc.
If "some are good people" then "many are bad people, i.e. criminals, drug dealers, rapists, etc.".
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
Such a baby.
I'm actually an undocumented immigrant, and I cannot believe you are attempting to explain what he said. He's popular with racists because he said out loud what many of them feel about us and other minorities. He knew very well he'd get a lot of support by being as crass and blunt as possible. Flowery language? It's more inflammatory and has emboldened them. That kind of language hurts me and millions of others.
If you don't see the difference between those two statements, or the statements of fake New Jersey video tapes of thousands on 9/11, or the Obama birtherism, or the fake black on white crime statistics, and say to yourself this is a guy who is racist, I'm afraid nothing more I can say will get through to you.
To admit Trump is a racist would likely mean to admit to him/herself that he/she is a racist. So yeah I doubt that is going to happen. It's clear this poster shares some of Trump's views.
Concentrating on specifics just means that you don't understand what Trump is doing. It is quite likely that he does not even believe these things, he is simply using these statements to gain attention and media time.
He is an entertainer and playing the media is his game. At the moment he is in a tough Republican primary and he understands that offensive tweets will increase his support temporarily.
When a reporter says : "This and that hate group has endorsed you. Does that bother you? Would you repudiate those views?" Trump will answer with a : "I'll repudiate them if that makes you feel better". He is projecting strength while not alienating the base, it is quite smart. Should he win the primary, he will completely change his approach. You would be a fool to think that this is not all choreographed.
I'm not saying that Trump isn't a racist, but he is basically a chameleon. He will adapt and do anything to gain more publicity. I doubt he has any deep convictions.
He is an entertainer and playing the media is his game. At the moment he is in a tough Republican primary and he understands that offensive tweets will increase his support temporarily.
When a reporter says : "This and that hate group has endorsed you. Does that bother you? Would you repudiate those views?" Trump will answer with a : "I'll repudiate them if that makes you feel better". He is projecting strength while not alienating the base, it is quite smart. Should he win the primary, he will completely change his approach. You would be a fool to think that this is not all choreographed.
I'm not saying that Trump isn't a racist, but he is basically a chameleon. He will adapt and do anything to gain more publicity. I doubt he has any deep convictions.
vicissitudes
Banned
So are you residing in the US illegally? If so, I believe there should be consequences, just like there are consequences for breaking other laws.
I have no problem with Hispanic-Americans, or Black-Americans, or any other minority groups. I have a problem with Hispanics who are in the country illegally, same for any illegal alien. It's not about race. I don't believe in open borders.
No, he's popular because he's taking a hard right stand on illegal immigration. There's nothing racist about that.
edit: Well he wants expedited return for non-criminal illegals, so its not really that hard right.
Says the guy living in Native Americans land.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Trump: "I hate it when black people count my money, I prefer Jews counting my money."
Trump: "The Central Park five should be executed."
Racism is a core part of his being.
It's irrelevant whether he believes what he says. That's par for the course with politicians so you can only judge them based on the positions they espouse. Of course he will swing back towards the center for the general, just like every nominee ever. His speech is hateful and has incited people to violence. That is harmful and indicates that he care very little about the effects his rhetoric has on those he is directing it against. That makes him either bigoted or sociopathic, or both.
QuantumZebra
Member
I can't wait till a world leader criticizes him and he shuts down all relations with them
"Black-Americans?" Are you for real right now? Goddamn dude.
Also calling the black lives movement as "trouble" and when a BLM protester was beat up he say that "Maybe he should been roughed up."
When as about the BLM he answers by, ‘We Have To Give Power Back To The Police’
That is obviously true and completely inconsequential to Trump. This is all about being in the spotlight and how much can you blame the individual when when the entire society plays into this dynamic?
America loves reality television and Trump is only giving what the people want. We've witnessed record ratings in the debates, all the newspapers are constantly fawning over him and every other topic even on this forum starts with "Trump:"
To love or to hate his message is besides the point, he is completely revolutionizing how we view the political landscape. Conventional wisdom has been thrown out the window and now he is taking on Fox News BY HIMSELF. The democratic leadership fears Roger Ailes. We've seen several capitulations from Barack Obama after they have conjured up nonsense (be it Glenn Beck, Hannity or whoever). Trump is having none of it and that is quite astonishing.
If he can beat Murdoch's propaganda machine without spending almost any money in the process, I would be extremely nervous as a progressive voter.
Even if you truly believe Trump isn't racist and is just doing this to get votes and win the primary, he's literally inciting real racists to violence while doing so.
The second Trump began basically encouraging his supporters to attack protesters the joke surrounding his campaign began to get much less funny.
vicissitudes
Banned
African-Americans, I was typing quickly.
I don't agree with some of the ways BLM has been protesting. I think that's what he meant. You are the one who is projecting the racist reasoning of "he should have been roughed up because he was black" onto what Trump said.
Can I ask why you care so much? Do you get this angry about all laws that are broken by people, or is it just laws broken by a specific people? I mean people that are here illegally and that aren't committing crimes, aren't hurting anybody and are just trying to live a non-shitty life.
I was brought here when I could barely walk. I've been here virtually my entire life. To rid me or any of the hundreds of thousands of youth and adults in a similar predicament would result in ruined lives and in quite a few cases, death, such as for me due to me being trans. This is a complex issue with so many variables and stories to tell among the millions just deporting willy nilly is a gross simplification. To be clear, I am not arguing that coming here unlawfully is correct, but the situation is far more complicated.
Besides, being here illegally is a civil offense, not a crime.
http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/07/is-illegal-immigration-a-crime-improper-entry-v-unlawful-presence.html
*edit* I also believe people shouldn't be assaulted for opposing views, do you agree?
You are literally defending Trump refusing to repudiate his supporters attacking nonviolent protesters.
Thanks for showing your true colors.
Do you agree he deserved to be assaulted as a result like Trump does?
True. Trump violently kicks out white protesters and cheers minority supporters equally. Don't know why people keep bringing race into this.
Campaign for open borders then and state your reasoning as to why it will be good for this country, and back a political candidate on it.
When has Trump given his blessing to his supporters beating up a white protester?
RustyNails
Member
Have you spoken to an attorney? Are you being helped? So sad to hear about your case. My brother was detained because he was out of status but he was married to a US citizen. It took 2 years for his case to appear in front of a judge but it was a really nerve racking time for everyone. Fortunately the case was thrown out and he got GC. He also hired a really good attorney as well and that really helped the process, as the state was arguing that his marriage was fake.
i thought trump was supposed to "tell it like it is" but it seems as though he was "politically correct" the whole time?!
hear that, people who support trump because he "tells it like it is"? it's the sound of you being thoroughly japed again by "political correctness"!!!
also beware isolated demands (for there not to be) rigor - either that or me and my prose are just held to a much higher standard than the republican frontrunner on the virtue of my cunning lingual skills
also also, speaking of my skill, i have heard literally zero rebuttals ever on why banning all muslims is ludicrous and will not work outside of having an excuse to bar people who "look muslim" [brown] from entering the nation
hear that, people who support trump because he "tells it like it is"? it's the sound of you being thoroughly japed again by "political correctness"!!!
also beware isolated demands (for there not to be) rigor - either that or me and my prose are just held to a much higher standard than the republican frontrunner on the virtue of my cunning lingual skills
also also, speaking of my skill, i have heard literally zero rebuttals ever on why banning all muslims is ludicrous and will not work outside of having an excuse to bar people who "look muslim" [brown] from entering the nation
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