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[Kinyou]

Just saw the video. What a piece of shit this guy is.

Why did he film it?

To get attention. It also seems like he waited with the shooting until they were live broadcasting. He wanted as many people as possible to see this

 

[Patrick S.]

I live in Spain and that's how it works here. Weapons are not banned but limited in type and use. Iirc getting a sports or hunting license is relatively easy after a psych check and a course but you can only carry your weapon to and from your gun range/hunting place and it has to be unloaded and in a carry bag. Personal defense licenses are only granted in special cases, like those who have needed police escort. There are also professional licenses for cops, security, etc.

It doesn't change things a lot but it keeps weapons far from the common people's minds. You can still get a weapon if you really want to, and there's a black market too, but the access, control and punishment is much stronger.

My dad got a pump action shotgun in Spain. To be able to buy it, all he needed was a hunting license, which didn't involve ANY kind of theoretic or practic schooling in things like gun handling, at what part of an animal do you have to shoot, how do you skin an animal... nada. It was just have your eyesight examined, pay a bit of money, done.

A Guardia Civil friend of mine introduced us to the owner of a gun store. My dad chose a gun, the vendor took out the rod that limits the gun to hold two rounds as per regulations, so the gun illegally could hold 8 rounds now, and off we went. Our Guardia friend was standing next to us the whole time, too.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Huh:

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/636632312453668869

timing is coincidental but this is not a reaction

 

[Pinchable Buttocks]

Guns and alcohol abuse are apple and oranges.

 

[Piggus]

Right, but in this case the balance seems to be just a bit off between the value of using guns as playthings (or even for defense) and the demonstrable carnage they enable.

So what would be a more appropriate "balance" to you? Is that same balance appropriate for other things?

 

[Marty Chinn]

People who drink alcohol kill themselves. They don't kill other people.

If firearms were only used for suicides, then you'd have a good argument. Sadly it's not the case.

Don't people who drink and drive often end up walking away while the other person they hit doesn't?

 

[Sianos]

Ban ad hom.

It was an observation, not an attempt to discredit. Shit, it wasn't even an argument.

yeah ad hominem is rough, i understand

but i also hate when the ad hominem gets addressed and everyone ignores legitimate argument in favor of it

not even saying that's what you're doing, its just annoying how bad arguments seem to be lined up in such a way that they block vision of more properly constructed arguments

 

[cpp_is_king]

GOOD.

It's a start.

Happy to see this. I would like them to stop selling handguns too. The gun used today was a handgun.

 

[marrec]

Why? The gun used looked like a glock 9mm to me.

Rifles aren't the problem, pistols are.

Who gives a shit to be honest? It's a good start, no need for AR-15s to be in Walmart.

Happy to see this. I would like them to stop selling handguns too. The gun used today was a handgun.

I'd like this too. Small steps I guess.

 

[Zabant]

So are you going to answer the question?



Which is why I am all for tighter gun control, particularly psych evaluations or licensing, required training, and harsher penalties for not locking guns up when not in use. In other words I want middle ground solutions.

Let me ask you a question and put you in a theoretical situation, and please give us an honest answer.

I have just transported you to 1997 Britain, and you're the sole person deciding if guns should be banned.

You have all the facts from the future, you know gun crime in Britain will be near-completely eradicated and thousands of lives will be saved if you ban them.

Do you do it?

 

[Sephzilla]

Why? The gun used looked like a glock 9mm to me.

Rifles aren't the problem, pistols are.

Why not?

I agree though that pistols are part of the problem too. But hey, it needs to start somewhere.

 

[LyleLanley]

Don't people who drink and drive often end up walking away while the other person they hit doesn't?

In my opinion we should ban drinking and driving.

 

[HyperionX]

Piggus post something about alcohol deaths in almost every gun death thread. He also has never AFAIK posted a single comment about responsible alcohol use or proposed changes to alcohol laws.

This is clearly a deflection tactic. Piggus is not trying to make a point here guys, he's trying to stop you from making one.

 

[ThatGuyAgain]

Is using alcohol worth 60,000 deaths per year?

I actually placed my palm on my face after reading this.

 

[Glorious Ownage]

Jesus christ. I just accidentally saw a bit of the POV vid on my FB feed. Thanks facebook auto-play.

WHY ARE PEOPLE SHARING THAT VIDEO!?

This isn't some injustice that needs to be shared to shed light on a social issue. It's a fucking live murder.

I feel sick.

Feel the same way and these websites are showing screen shots of it right on the front page of these articles if you're just on a normal news site browsing around.

 

[Piggus]

People who drink alcohol kill themselves. They don't kill other people.

If firearms were only used for suicides, then you'd have a good argument. Sadly it's not the case.

People drink alcohol and kill others all the time.

Let me ask you a question and put you in a theoretical situation, and please give us an honest answer.

I have just transported you to 1997 Britain, and you're the sole person deciding if guns should be banned.

You have all the facts from the future, you know gun crime in Britain will be virtually be eradicated and thousands of lives will be saved if you ban them.

Do you do it?

Yes, I would, because I feel that's what the British people would have wanted. But Americans as a whole have a much different view on guns.

Happy to see this. I would like them to stop selling handguns too. The gun used today was a handgun.

I don't think they sell handguns, at least not around here.

Piggus post something about alcohol deaths in almost every gun death thread. He also has never AFAIK posted a single comment about responsible alcohol use or proposed changes to alcohol laws.

This is clearly a deflection tactic. Piggus is not trying to make a point here guys, he's trying to stop you from making one.

I've clearly stated my point many times in these sort of topics. Just because you completely ignore it doesn't mean I'm trying to deflect people from the issue.

 

[Fenderputty]

People who drink alcohol kill themselves. They don't kill other people.

If firearms were only used for suicides, then you'd have a good argument. Sadly it's not the case.

The comparison is deaths. Not whether the thing that caused the death was a weapon or a drug. The absence of both would result in less deaths per year.

 

[commish]

since no one responded to my last post debunking this exact argument, i am allowed to repost that post so i don't waste my time retyping the same thing:

"People die from irresponsible gun usage. People die from irresponsible alcohol usage. Since irresponsible gun usage and irresponsible alcohol usage both cause people to die, they should both be dealt with in the same manner."

This is a pretty clear example of a tu quoque fallacy. Attempting to prove that legislating further restrictions of guns is hypocritical because we aren't trying to legislate further restriction of alcohol does not mean that restricting guns is an illogical line of thought.

Whether or not alcohol should be restricted is an entirely different argument from whether guns should be restricted. Even if they can both cause death, they do so in different manners and require different solutions to minimize harm while preserving personal freedom. For instance, I would propose that to drive a civilian car, one must blow into a breathalizer before the car will switch out of park. This solution would obviously not help much to solve the issue of death via gun. Likewise, requiring the usage of a gun safe to store guns would not help much to solve the issue of death via drunk driving. Notice how these seem to be separate issues even though they both cause death?

I think you are misstating his point a bit. Let's say our overall goal in regulating alcohol and regulating guns is to reduce the number of deaths in each case. Wouldn't it make more sense to focus on banning alcohol since it would be easier (and "save" more lives)? Wouldn't you want to focus on the lowest hanging fruit that would save lives because it's more bang for our buck?

Personally, I don't see it as an either-or situation, and I'd love to see steps taken to address both issues.

 

[captive]

Who gives a shit to be honest? It's a good start, no need for AR-15s to be in Walmart.



I'd like this too. Small steps I guess.

apparently its just coincidental. But what does it matter if they are at Walmart, academy, dicks, gander mtn, doesn't matter.

Also the problem still is pistols not rifles.

 

[Jonm1010]

Gun ban ain't' happening.

It's not realistic. More than half of the country won't allow it and we live in a representative democratic republic.

The focus should be on mental health checks and tighter regulations overall.

Baby steps.

The problem with comprehensive gun control laws is the same for big or small measures, the ingrained interest groups have such a monopoly on persuasion that it would take overwhelming public pressure to override it.

 

[FyreWulff]

To be honest, I didn't even realize they still sold guns.

I thought they only sold ammo in their 'outdoor' section.

They did, then they stopped for a long while, then they re-introduced them

 

[Kinyou]

I'm amazed that buying a gun at walmart is even a thing

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Just because gun laws would not stop 100% of gun violence does not mean gun laws aren't worth having. Because it's been proven they do stop a lot of g n violence.

I just mean there seems to hyperbole everywhere. Like is there no middle ground? Why yes, yes there is. I'm pretty sure Canada had gun control laws but didn't ban outright them, right? (Oh, Canada! If only your dollar were not so weak lol)

In summary:

BAN DUH GUNZZ

Middle ground ----- Here plz.

DONT RESTRICT MAH GUNZZ U COMMIE

 

[entremet]

The problem with comprehensive gun control laws is the same for big or small measures, the ingrained interest groups have such a monopoly on persuasion that it would take overwhelming public pressure to override it.

We did have the assault weapons ban, but it wasn't renewed by W.

 

[marrec]

apparently its just coincidental. But what does it matter if they are at Walmart, academy, dicks, gander mtn, doesn't matter.

Also the problem still is pistols not rifles.

The problem is guns. Pistols are more of a problem than rifles, of course, but I'm not going to criticize.

Let's get guns out of ALL stores. That's my goal. Coincidental or not, Walmart done good today.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I'm amazed that buying a gun at wamlart is even a thing

It's like, the most American thing

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

Irresponsibly using alcohol has killed lots of sober people.

I'm assuming youre talking about drunk driving?

here's the thing: anytime you get behind the wheel of a car, there's an implicit understanding that things can go bad. everyone should be a defensive driver, you should be fully alert, etc. Why? Because we all know that, yes, you can die from driving a vehicle. There's a ton of things that can go wrong when behind the wheel of a car, the dangers of using one should be on the driver's mind at all times.

Now with guns, there's jack shit you can tell someone to prevent them from getting killed by another person with a gun who is intent on killing. There is no defensive driving equivalent, there isn't an implicit understanding every day that someone can just start going off. Ideally, i should feel safe in a developed society when walking around and not be concerned that a random shooting spree can erupt at any given moment. But as we saw today, gun violence is at a point in america where it seems like it can happen at any time, anywhere, for any reason, suddenly and swiftly.

so, again, the comparison is a bunch of bull

 

[Pinchable Buttocks]

The reason the gun control debate never takes off is because the argument is about everything else but guns.

 

[BFIB]

I'm amazed that buying a gun at wamlart is even a thing

It is, and its big where I live.

 

[Liferebooted]

I really regret seeing the live broadcast and the shooters pov video this morning. I can't get Alison's screams out of my head =\

 

[ThatGuyAgain]

Let me ask you a question and put you in a theoretical situation, and please give us an honest answer.

I have just transported you to 1997 Britain, and you're the sole person deciding if guns should be banned.

You have all the facts from the future, you know gun crime in Britain will be near-completely eradicated and thousands of lives will be saved if you ban them.

Do you do it?

Best thing I've read today. Bravo.

EDIT:

Yes, I would, because I feel that's what the British people would have wanted. But Americans as a whole have a much different view on guns.

Okay, so basically you would make your choice based on what enough people want at the time, regardless of the ramifications that only you know about?

 

[Marty Chinn]

In my opinion we should ban drinking and driving.

We do, but we also ban shooting people to kill them too. I'm not even trying to equate guns and alcohol though; they're different beasts all together. I'm just questioning this notion that alcohol doesn't end up killing other people from usage. We should probably start another topic on it because I think it's a bit interesting how there is a lack of outrage over the results of alcohol relative to gun shootings. But the lack of outrage with alcohol doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything about guns. We absolutely should and it's sad that nothing points to a sign of a tipping point that something will change in how we deal and address the issue.

 

[commish]

Why not?

I agree though that pistols are part of the problem too. But hey, it needs to start somewhere.

The problem is that, when people advocate changes w/r/t guns, people can point and say "look, we did this thing! we are working on it." It's just throwing people a bone. ARs aren't a problem.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

The problem is guns. Pistols are more of a problem than rifles, of course, but I'm not going to criticize.

Let's get guns out of ALL stores. That's my goal. Coincidental or not, Walmart done good today.

Yup. Wasn't even aware you could buy guns in Walmart, mainly cause I don't go.

 

[Wthermans]

Just another day in the U. S. of A.

This country's complete lack of response to gun violence and gun crime is sickening. Get rid of the guns. If you are against this, you are an idiot and I wish I could replace you with any of the millions of gun victims.

 

[ValleyJoe]

Why do all of these gun "enthusiasts" always equate stronger gun laws to the government coming to their house and taking all of their guns away from them?

Serious question, why shouldn't it be harder for people to buy guns?

I'm a gun "enthusiast" and I've stated several times in this thread that it should be much harder to get guns than it is. I've suggested one year waiting periods for first time gun buyers and mandatory safe ownership for all gun owners. In fact I haven't seen one person in this thread state that it shouldn't be harder to get guns or that they think the government is coming to get all their guns. All I've seen are people coming in and saying stuff like "ban all guns" and others logically explaining why that isn't possible at this point in time. Can you please show me some quotes from this thread where people have done anything remotely similar to what you stated?

 

[BennyBlanco]

The problem is guns. Pistols are more of a problem than rifles, of course, but I'm not going to criticize.

Let's get guns out of ALL stores. That's my goal. Coincidental or not, Walmart done good today.

Not to be too cynical but I'm sure this came down to X's and O's in some board room meeting where they realized they could use the good PR and it wasn't making them a ton of money anyway.

This is Walmart we're talking about here, who will shutter their stores and pack up and leave town if employees start talking about unionizing.

 

[The Sarcastic Dude]

The problem is guns. Pistols are more of a problem than rifles, of course, but I'm not going to criticize.

Let's get guns out of ALL stores. That's my goal. Coincidental or not, Walmart done good today.

Guns aren't the problem, people are the problem. We need to improve mental healthcare not ban gun sales. Also, I'm all for strict background checks to prevent mentally unstable people from purchasing firearms.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Just another day in the U. S. of A.

This country's complete lack of response to gun violence and gun crime is sickening. Get rid of the guns. If you are against this, you are an idiot and I wish I could replace you with any of the millions of gun victims.

This country barely responded to a classroom full of dead children. The POV video will make the rounds on the 24-hour news networks for a couple days and people will pretend to be shocked, then we will go back to discussing Kim K's tragic battle with pregnancy weight gain.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

We do, but we also ban shooting people to kill them too. I'm not even trying to equate guns and alcohol though; they're different beasts all together. I'm just questioning this notion that alcohol doesn't end up killing other people from usage. We should probably start another topic on it because I think it's a bit interesting how there is a lack of outrage over the results of alcohol relative to gun shootings. But the lack of outrage with alcohol doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything about guns. We absolutely should and it's sad that nothing points to a sign of a tipping point that something will change in how we deal and address the issue.

the thing were not seeing is the statistics of how many more people would die if drinking and driving wasn't outlawed.

the comparison is bad, really. super bad.

 

[chalex010]

Who gives a shit to be honest? It's a good start, no need for AR-15s to be in Walmart.

On the one hand you are completely right, Walmart being the kind of place that it is shouldn't be selling guns (and they certainly don't need to). On the other hand the "they're taking our guns!" group is likely to spin this into a nationwide gun buying spree just like every other time a gun related tragedy leads to gun control political posturing.

So I guess I'm not sure if Walmart getting rid of certain types of firearms is worth the almost certainly massive influx of new guns into the general population.

 

[Garlador]

Let me ask you a question and put you in a theoretical situation, and please give us an honest answer.

I have just transported you to 1997 Britain, and you're the sole person deciding if guns should be banned.

You have all the facts from the future, you know gun crime in Britain will be near-completely eradicated and thousands of lives will be saved if you ban them.

Do you do it?

This is an amazing post.

 

[Leatherface]

If you are against this, you are an idiot and I wish I could replace you with any of the millions of gun victims.

wow..

 

[glow]

Watch a portion of that POV video and tell me that it takes a sane mind to point and shoot a loaded gun at another human being for any kind of slight, percieved or otherwise.

I'm just curious if he had any documented mental illness or family or friends that thought he was crazy. He was absolutely an angry guy but that doesn't mean he had a mental illness. I guess I'll have to read his manifesto to get a better picture.

 

[LyleLanley]

We do, but we also ban shooting people to kill them too. I'm not even trying to equate guns and alcohol though; they're different beasts all together. I'm just questioning this notion that alcohol doesn't end up killing other people from usage. We should probably start another topic on it because I think it's a bit interesting how there is a lack of outrage over the results of alcohol relative to gun shootings. But the lack of outrage with alcohol doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything about guns. We absolutely should and it's sad that nothing points to a sign of a tipping point that something will change in how we deal and address the issue.

To me the big difference is that there are a lot of logical laws that try to minimize the amount of deaths caused from alcohol, public intoxication laws/drunk driving laws/etc., it seems like we're missing these sorts of obvious laws for gun ownership that would at least do something to help the almost unbelievable amount of gun violence we have in America.

 

[marrec]

Guns aren't the problem, people are the problem. We need to improve mental healthcare not ban gun sales. Also, I'm all for strict background checks to prevent mentally unstable people from purchasing firearms.

Fuck guns.

Full stop.

We can improve mental healthcare AND ban gun sales. What a world we live in.

Not to be too cynical but I'm sure this came down to X's and O's in some board room meeting where they realized they could use the good PR and it wasn't making them a ton of money anyway.

This is Walmart we're talking about here, who will shutter their stores and pack up and leave town if employees start talking about unionizing.

Oh, I'm absolutely sure. Walmart probably doesn't make a lot of money on these rifles and has been through the planning phases of a remove in their stores already. They probably announced this move today completely opportunistically and without a shred of altruism.

But still, good.

 

[iceagecoming]

wow..

I know right. What a psychotic. Its the sort of thing killers say

 

[onadesertedisland]

Would it be possible to effectively ban new gun sales by restricting gun shops from operating?

 

[kingocfs]

Guns aren't the problem, people are the problem.

whynotboth.gif

 

[mantidor]

Gun ban ain't' happening.

It's not realistic. More than half of the country won't allow it and we live in a representative democratic republic.

The focus should be on mental health checks and tighter regulations overall.

Baby steps.

How about taxing the hell out of guns, which I assume are already taxed as hell, but I mean like 10x times more, and use the money for mental health campaigns and stuff like that.

The US is the capitalism center of the universe, so maybe the solution is to do it the US way, to make things detrimental you make them non-profitable.