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Ubisoft and Disney gave previewers a trip to Disneyland to promote Star Wats: Outlaws

anthony2690

Member
We are not professional journos who are literally paid to put out objective review, we are allowed to be fanatical, its our hobby, and we spend our hard earned money on those games, instead of getting free early review copies.
I have 0 problem with users who score game 10/10 even if for me its 3/10 game =]
The thing is people will criticise professional journos here when it doesn't align with their views, or claim they are crap at games etc etc.

But when their views aligns will gleefully share the reviews etc.

It's a little annoying :p

My personal fave is when the guy at IGN who gave wanted dead an insanely glowing preview saying how incredible it was, to absolutely blast it in review and give it 4 🤣

I fully agree with what you're saying, I remember people absolutely loving nier automata, I sadly didn't like it at all, great ost though :)
 

Mr Reasonable

Completely Unreasonable
TBH, I think it's fine. The youtubers just need to declare "I got a flight and hotel and trip to disneyland to go play the game"

There are regularly events for streamers and reviewers to go play things in advance of release - the trip to Disney part marks this out as being a big deal, but if you're worried about how reliable the reviews will be, just wait a month to play it.
 

The_Verecocha

Neo Member
‘I’m outraged!’ said only people who don’t have a clue this is what happens in every industry within its own infrastructure. Get over it you moaning gits. Ubisoft manages to give away freebies to people, said people go and have a great time. Lucky them.

Next moral panic for snowflakes to moan about tomorrow will be…
 

PeteBull

Gold Member
TBH, I think it's fine. The youtubers just need to declare "I got a flight and hotel and trip to disneyland to go play the game"

There are regularly events for streamers and reviewers to go play things in advance of release - the trip to Disney part marks this out as being a big deal, but if you're worried about how reliable the reviews will be, just wait a month to play it.
That text should be visible durning whole review, not just few seconds, since lots of ppl rewind/skip the beginning.
 

PeteBull

Gold Member
‘I’m outraged!’ said only people who don’t have a clue this is what happens in every industry within its own infrastructure. Get over it you moaning gits. Ubisoft manages to give away freebies to people, said people go and have a great time. Lucky them.

Next moral panic for snowflakes to moan about tomorrow will be…
"How dare we crytique corruption in brith daylight" :messenger_sunglasses:
 

Mr Reasonable

Completely Unreasonable
That text should be visible durning whole review, not just few seconds, since lots of ppl rewind/skip the beginning.

I don't think that's necessary, if people don't want to know all the details that's on them.

When they put products in tv shows, there's an icon in the top right* hand corner of the screen for about 3 seconds at the beginning of the show and that's all the concession that's made.


*EDIT: Left
 
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lordrand11

Member
nana changing GIF
 

N30RYU

Member
They are the only good press they are gona get for it... game looks very very unpolished... like if it was a gamepass game or they lost all hope midway and they just ended it to try and fool some hardfans to buy it
 
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Bernardougf

Member
And thats why kids for years Reviews and Awards in general means fucking nothing ... that is absolutely no impartiality or "conflicts of interests" in mainstream/streamers ... be for access, free shit, ideology, politics .. reviews are a joke and professional journalism is dead all across media.
 
And thats why kids for years Reviews and Awards in general means fucking nothing ... that is absolutely no impartiality or "conflicts of interests" in mainstream/streamers ... be for access, free shit, ideology, politics .. reviews are a joke and professional journalism is dead all across media.

Reviews and awards have NEVER meant anything.

It's not hard. Find critics and youtubers who have similar taste in things as you. Follow their content if you are interested.
 

calistan

Member
It's this behaviour that's making it more of a problem.

"It's not new".
"It's always been like this".

No shit. I'm planning to get the game (I think? Maybve.. after real reviews and not people cosplaying having a real opinion) but we have to keep shaming people who say they don't receive anything in return for a review.
If they're honest, 'aight you get a pass but I'm still not believe a thing they say.
You've probably never read a professional game preview that hasn't involved some degree of give and take with the publisher's PR department. Unless it's commentary on something that anyone can access, like a trailer, in which case it's much less valuable.

Even at events like E3, we'd be shown games behind closed doors rather than on the show floor, by PR people we'd known for years. Places at conferences and interview opportunities would be given to preferred outlets, and there would be parties and meals in the evenings.

It's about finding a balance. Everyone is in this to make money, and the money ultimately comes from the same place. If publishers and journalists becomes adversaries, it doesn't end well.
 

Bernardougf

Member
Reviews and awards have NEVER meant anything.

It's not hard. Find critics and youtubers who have similar taste in things as you. Follow their content if you are interested.
I think at some point in time they were honest or mostly honest, and I could thrust reviews of , at the time, respected sites and sources... that time is long gone for me though.
 
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Evil Calvin

Afraid of Boobs
Most publishers do that crap. That is why you should assume that the scores the big outlets, and influencers are 5-10% higher than they should be (or 1-2 points).
 

PeteBull

Gold Member
Most publishers do that crap. That is why you should assume that the scores the big outlets, and influencers are 5-10% higher than they should be (or 1-2 points).
Those 2 points are huge, imagine game is 6/10 so barely above avg, yet outlets giving 8/10 scores left and right like nowadays, that puts bargain bin quality game to the buy at launch territory.
 
Ppl that accept these opportunities irritate me.
There is no other reason for Ubisoft to do this other than sway your opinion. Even if you claim it doesn't effect your opinion, there's no way the majority of your audience will look at this and just blindly accept that you're unbiased.
 

Evil Calvin

Afraid of Boobs
I dont know if you guys know this, but thats pretty much the entire incentive structure for all game reviewing. Because they arent in it for the money. Its free games, used to be E3 and Tokyo Game Show, swag kits, etc. A day at Star Wars land is all they have left.

P.S. why you should make up your own mind on games generally.
...and they know if they give a game a bad score....likely the publisher won't give them review copies in the future. That's why a good chunk of reviews are skewed favorably. Most reviewers are playing nice and are ones who reviewed the publishers games favorably in the past.
 

Evil Calvin

Afraid of Boobs
Reminds me of the Fallout 4 (I believe) canvas bag given out to influencers and the players who preordered the super deluxe version and were supposed to get a canvas bag but ended up getting a cheap nylon bag.
 

PeteBull

Gold Member
Reviews and awards have NEVER meant anything.

It's not hard. Find critics and youtubers who have similar taste in things as you. Follow their content if you are interested.
U can call me boomer/grandpa/og but back in the 90s, at least in my country, no magazines got free review copy of the game(except official playstation magazine but u usually bought that one for the CD included, u didnt value scores it gave games coz every1 knew/could see the bias) :p

At least here in poland we had plenty reputable magazines back in the day :)
wikipedia has some of them but i remember buying quite a few more
Like for example this one, named playstation plus (no jokes, polish videogames magazine had that name in mid 1998s way before sony got it for themselfs) https://strefapsx.pl/baza-magazyn-playstation-plus/
Unique thing about this particular one- they were importing japanese version of games and were making all kinds of solutions/guides very close to japanese launch which usually was months and sometimes years before game appeared officially in europe/pal, sometimes newer (beloved by many of us final fantasy tactics and xenogears).
 

Buggy Loop

Gold Member
On topic of “PSA: I was not paid by Ubisoft or anyone else to make this video. I was given the opportunity to record content however it was fully my own choice to make and share content based on it. The only money I make from this content is from YouTube views. There is no ‘shilling’ or hidden agenda’s involved.”


Louise-Julie.png

Source

Did nobody tell her that the very definition of being an "influencer" and to promote products is to be a shill?
 
because you are calling a fairly competent well made game dog shit. your barometer for judging games is all off if you think this game is dog shit and you need to play some bad games to get that perspective back.

this is a single player game. that we champion here at gaf. not a gaas trash like suicide squad. it is next gen only. something gaf wants. it looks great visually. something gaf wants. its story driven. something gaf wants. yes its disappointing that the game isnt as high quality as an uncharted or god of war, but few games are. not every game needs to be a goty contender. its ok to get 7/10 games. there is absolutely nothing offensive about this game for it get this much hate.

You say it’s not GAAS, but Ubisoft are going big on hyping their DLC that will stretch out to Spring 2025 and on offering the option of paying £14.99 a month rather than £70 to £115 upfront.

It is a different beast to, say, Jedi Fallen Order, which released at £50 with no dlc, with no marketing onslaught.

There will be high expectations.
 
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Fake

Gold Member


Assuming this is true, this is pretty sad/funny though, as why would you pay for engagement bots, whens it is painfully obvious when someone is a bot 🥲


Nothing new. We know Ubisoft play dirty. And we can all thanks to gaming journalism that don't see a problem with that, as soon as their core value align with the devs/game vision.
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Wildly unethical, but we're supposed to weep for gaming journalism outlets when they go out of business or have layoffs? The industry is broken, especially when it comes to "influencers" and it is a surprise that anyone watches these people anymore.
 

Bond007

Member
Good for them- take the free ride.
I enjoy watching reviews for new content and information so that i can make my own determination based on what i like or dont.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
You say it’s not GAAS, but Ubisoft are going big on hyping their DLC that will stretch out to Spring 2025 and on offering the option of paying £14.99 a month rather than £70 to £115 upfront.

It is a different beast to, say, Jedi Fallen Order, which released at £50 with no dlc, with no marketing onslaught.

There will be high expectations.
Jedi games are also on EA Pro day one which is how i played the game. it also had a pretty significant marketing campaign

i have no idea why having DLCs for single player games is a big issue all of a sudden. Elden Ring just released its DLC and its many people's GOTY. Literally every single game has DLC now. Means nothing.
 

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
gaf will freak out if they hear about business meetings being held at backstage concerts, baseball and football stadiums, strip clubs, fancy restaurant's etc. yes, its unethical for journos to be wined and dined like lobbyists but these are previews. not reviews.

If Ubisoft are giving out the VIP treatment for previews, what are they giving out for reviews? Makes you wonder 🤔

Also, laying my cards in the table, I don't have a hate boner for this game. I just have a raging, throbbing hate boner for Ubisoft in general.
 

Bluecondor

Member
I can't help but laugh at this. I am a business professor and teach seminars every year on managing conflict-of-interest (defined simply as "when one's primary interest in a professional judgment is compromised by a secondary interest.") One of the main points of my seminar is that "One of the biggest managerial challenges of conflict-of-interest is addressing the appearance or perception of a conflict-of-interest." Another main point is "It is unrealistic to completely remove conflict-of-interest, but a great deal of negativity can be reduced by being proactive in disclosing a conflict-of-interest."

From what I see here, Ubisoft and the journalists reporting on this missed the mark completely. How do you not consider "how will people perceive journalists/influencers getting a free trip to Disney Land to preview a game?" Then, even worse, how does Ubisoft not say in advance "We are holding a preview event for Outlaws in Disney Land and paying the expenses of attendees.", and how can any journalist/influencer not say in advance "Here is my preview of the game. Full disclosure, I played it at an invitation-only Ubisoft event at Disney Land for the four-hour preview."

This is the fascinating thing about conflict-of-interest. While there are formal laws against this in many financial, medical and government contracting situations, situations like this show how conflict-of-interest is an ethical challenge. If people perceive that a professional's primary interest in publishing a preview has been compromised by a compelling secondary influence (the simple fact that the professional received an all-expenses-paid trip to Disney Land), then people do not trust the professional. The effect of this is magnified in situations in which the conflict-of-interest is not disclosed.

So, no laws were violated here (I'm not a lawyer, so please free free to correct me on this), but Ubisoft and the journalists/influencers who went on the trip and said nothing about it when publishing their previews have just set themselves up for ridicule.

And, just so you understand that I am not standing on the proverbial soapbox and moralizing about this, I regularly get offers from textbook companies to "review" a chapter in their latest textbook in return for a free trip and/or honorarium (sometimes as much as $500). I have to turn these down because there is no way I could assign an expensive textbook to my students and then say to them "By the way, the textbook company pays me to review this and flies me to Chicago for a weekend conference at the Ritz-Carlton." Or, if I took this offer on the low and never said anything to my students, you know this would get back to them one way or the other.

So class, always remember that the mere appearance of a conflict-of-interest (when one's primary interest in a professional judgment is compromised by a second interest) is a concern, and that being proactive in disclosing this situation goes a long way in trying to mitigate a conflict-of-interest. :)
 
Why would anyone agree to be in this picture? No amount of Ubi GenderWars swag is worth ensuring that you die single.
anyone under the age of 9? because it's badass! anyone else? because they're still, on a very disturbingly fundamental level, under the age of 9...
 

calistan

Member
If Ubisoft are giving out the VIP treatment for previews, what are they giving out for reviews? Makes you wonder 🤔
Previews are where the PR groundwork is done. You can make sure people play under controlled conditions, that they get introduced to directors and producers at an early stage, and that you have a steady drip-feed of coverage coordinated with the marketing schedule.

For reviews, you might invite people to an event where they get to take away code, or to a launch party. Maybe send them a review pack. I remember getting one for a Kingdom Hearts game that included a cheat sheet for lazy reviewers, basically explaining how the game plays out in the later stages, so you didn't have to get that far.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Games industry still in an old school mindset of buying off people with perks.

This is no different than legacy stuff like a supplier giving buyers at a retailers head office sport tickets or a fancy dinner for their fam on company dime. Most companies (big ones at least) got rid of that as part of code of conduct and bribery policies on both ends - supplier and retailer. And giant places like Walmart dont do that stuff. Even buying them a coffee will likely be declined. It's not a perfect science, but there is some effort of ethics to not grease the wheel for personal gain and tainted business actions.

The most you can do is take them out to lunch or dinner making it a business discussion mean where the supplier person has to be there.

But where the policy can fall apart is no-name stores or in this case one-person show Youtubers where they'll grab anything for a buck. Heck, offer a Youtube dude $100 and a free game and they'll probably do anything.
 
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Weirdly I get shit on SHIT on when saying I won't go to events if I can't pay. Or that I don't accept money for previews.
"We need to get our bag" Is what I was told last time and shouted down.
I will say if I ask to pay it becomes hard for a company as they do have time specific stuff they want you to go to that they may feel odd asking you to attend if they don't control your trip.

That being said. I feel like, usually, there is a subconscious thing that occurs with paid events. But I assume, like everything in life, it doesn't impact everyone. I just don't know how it wouldn't as thats a purely emotion and excitement thing. Even if, in the rare instance, it caused someone to be MORE negative, if a games preview wasn't great. That is also an effect and a tangible one that doesn't read very well if we want to cover games accurately.


This guy right here ^^ has THE most integrity among any Youtuber I have seen in last 10 years. There is so little of it on the platform as far as I can tell so I seriously appeeciate reviewers like you!

I dont see this problem getting better any time soon though sadly but at least people like you exist that I can point to when I see some reviewer saying "i got a collectors edition and a paid trip but it does NOT affect my review" ...I think most Youtubers are young (and dumb) and dont care to be honest with themselves let alone their audience.

Theres a couple other decent size Youtubers that seem to have a good head on their shoulders but you are the first guy who has been an example of how to respect their audience.
 

bighugeguns

Member
Fk it, I'd do it, I mean, it's freaking Disneyland, #yolo

I'm sorry, there's just something about Ubisoft, they make the most normie games in all of normieville, "integrity" isn't really a thing in that space so I say, go wild with the shilling. I really don't think the kind of person who enjoys Ubisoft games don't even pay attention to reviews anyway!

If this was a more prestigious studio/publisher eyebrows would be raised, but eh, Ubisoft...
 
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RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Gamers upset for finding out how adults actually do business out in the real world? colour me shocked.

Fair play to all involved for getting a free trip out to promote a game to their fanbase it's not like they all went homeless human hunting ffs, we all get excited in the office when a supplier brings in buns lol
 

PeteBull

Gold Member
Gamers upset for finding out how adults actually do business out in the real world? colour me shocked.

Fair play to all involved for getting a free trip out to promote a game to their fanbase it's not like they all went homeless human hunting ffs, we all get excited in the office when a supplier brings in buns lol
Any1 can do w/e they want, we just calling hypocritical behaviour of so called "professional journos" who pretend they are objective/unbiased/strong against corporations/on the side of a small guy/consumers etc, many of them pretend to be very liberal/leftists too ;P
In reality they sell out their integrity all the fricken time, we understand it, we know they gotta make a living, just why deny it :)
 
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