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[Bernardougf]

So if hes seeing the same comments from linkedin from people within the gaming industry then surely it's not isolated to a bunch of incels online.

I always find it weird how delusional these people really are when given feedback from multiple different sources. if it was just X then fine, disregard it, but when its everywhere from gaf to reddit and youtube AND fucking linkedin then surely you should be paying attention.

there is no way the focus groups didnt tell them this in advance. Unless the focus groups are not picked from the gaming community which is almost exclusively male. at which point, focus groups are no longer representative of the gaming audience and probably should be fixed as we.

This people really leave in a bubble.. so it wouldn't surprise me at all if their "focus groups" are just pulled from the same bubble pool... what are the chances a heavily DEI company put 90% of straight man in a room to test their games and give honest opinions... I think is close to zero... most likely its a colorfull hair multi race/gender room full of people ready to say YES because saying NO to a black samurai lead or color woman lead game even if the game is bad automatically makes them NAZI.

This generation cant handle criticism so they will not put themselves in a situation to be criticized... even by focus groups... its bizarre ... but there's just no other explanation ....

 

[Lunarorbit]

Vote with your wallet has been a mantra for 2 gens?

Now these whiny fucking assholes are gaslighting us. Why aren't they buying our games?!? We've only been dicks to them and insulted them?

Fuck off dude. Director of monetization? Holy shit you are everything wrong with gaming

 

[BlackTron]

This generation cant handle criticism so they will not put themselves in a situation to be criticized... even by focus groups... its bizarre ... but there's just no other explanation ....

To be fair, 90% of criticism these days is "you are now a known nazi forever congrats"

 

[MALpractice311]

And people wonder why the games industry is in the shitter. And heading into another video games crash.

Only the Western games industry, hopefully. Because it seems like Japan and now Korea and China are having a rebirth. They're making games that people want, keeping their budgets in check, and have reasonable sales expectations and it seem to be working. Elden Ring, Lies of P, Black Myth Wukong, and Stellar Blade all say hi.

Square Enix is the one notable exception of course. They don't seem to know what they're doing and are trying to follow Western Devs down the shitter.

 

[Clear]

The funniest thing is we’re not activists.

We aren’t organized.

We aren’t actively trying to manipulate people into toeing the line.

We’re just a bunch normal, like-minded gamers voicing our opinions and voting with our wallets.

I meant "activists" in the broad sense of how for literally years pretty much all of the so-called enthusiast press have pushed the line that "everything is political", and you should always "stand up for your values".

Which is exactly what's happening.

People see signs that a game is ideologically influenced by politics/culture they dislike and it immediately turns them off.

Which again, is exactly what these people wanted to happen, but were too arrogant to think that they could ever find themselves on the receiving end of the same tactics!

 

[PeteBull]

He has a good point. A lot of people wish companies to fail and even harass game devs when they make games that don't appeal to a determined target audience. See the announcement of any mobile game as an example.

Thats how we can spot spy account, bros.
If some1 is actual gafer/core gamer then its obvious- we dont give a damn about mobile game announcements so who on gaf could be only ones that cares- hidden dev account =D

 

[BigDeadFreak]

At some point in time, tech companies really amped up the big money, coddling and freebies. I dont the impression IBM did this in the 70s or 80s. I dont think a tech company like IBM now even does stuff like that.

But whether it's a giant corporation like MS, or some new gaming studio who got funded to make a game over 5 years, the giant money and cozy office life became a thing. Quite amazing when you think of it, but when you got bottomless pockets and supposedly the quest to attract employees needs big perks then I guess thats what happens.

The same thing is creeping into a lot of industries now. It's like employees leave university having spent 3 years being treated like babies and then expect the same thing when they get a job.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

. There are many stakeholders influencing

How many of those are buying games?

They influence in some shady committee but their influence in the market is ZERO.

Enough with this bullshit.

 

[PandaOk]

You're a company that makes games, you're supposed to cater to gamers.

Videogames are meant to be a moment's respite from life, they are supposed to provide a bit of fun and entertainment, but these companies now only see them as vessels to push evil ideologies and extract money from gamers.

You think you’re making some broad lofty statement about the purity of games but all you’re really saying is “me me me me me cater only to me!” Very ironic.

 

[Kumomeme]

please blame gaymers. not gamers.

 

[NickFire]

You think you’re making some broad lofty statement about the purity of games but all you’re really saying is “me me me me me cater only to me!” Very ironic.

Everyone wants entertainment that they find entertaining. Nothing ironic about it. Literally nothing.

 

[PandaOk]

Everyone wants entertainment that they find entertaining. Nothing ironic about it. Literally nothing.

There is when you’re trying to claim that the entirety of a broad demographic ‘people who play games’ happen to have you as their near one to one totem. Sorry bud.

The fact of the matter is that there are millions if not billions of ‘gamers’ all with different beliefs and values and certainly ones that do not believe ‘evil ideologies’ are being pushed. XD

 

[Aguero9320]

So, how many of you ‘vote with your wallet’ people are not buying the PS5 Pro or PS6?

Or is skipping that a protest too far for you to stomach?

 

[scanferr]

When was the last time Ubisoft made a good game?

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

You think you’re making some broad lofty statement about the purity of games but all you’re really saying is “me me me me me cater only to me!” Very ironic.

The numbers are out. The games that many of us are saying catering to us in this forum, happen to sell very well. And those that we say didn't cater to us, also just recently died in droves.

There is nothing ironic about it. Cater to paying customers or starve. There are people who ARE pleased with the woke trend, but just because they are pleased doesn't make them BUY anything. No one bought Conccord, for example. You can barely find anyone who played it who didn't get given a copy as an influencer.

Yes, it is about supply and demand. Yes, it is a base animalistic desire to have fun. No, it is not very high brow. But making games cost money, so if you want to stay in business then make games that people want to BUY.

 

[NickFire]

There is when you’re trying to claim that the entirety of a broad demographic ‘people who play games’ happen to have you as their near one to one totem. Sorry bud.

You’re reading too deep. I just pointed out that everyone wants entertainment they find entertaining. Nothing more, nothing less.

if you’re trying to argue about percentages who like or dislike a trend, I would defer to sales charts. No need to argue. Math is math.

 

[PandaOk]

When was the last time Ubisoft made a good game?

This is the crux of Ubisofts problem but that won’t stop some people from pretending it’s a rejection of dei or whatever

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

So, how many of you ‘vote with your wallet’ people are not buying the PS5 Pro or PS6?

Or is skipping that a protest too far for you to stomach?

And the relation to the topic in hand is.... ?

You think you’re making some broad lofty statement about the purity of games but all you’re really saying is “me me me me me cater only to me!” Very ironic.

"purity of games" fucking hell dude, what's even this language, lol.

A videogames company must sell to a certain target audience, dudes who play videogames. Is a concept so difficult to grasp?

Reality is becoming a live action South Park show.

 

[PandaOk]

The numbers are out. The games that many of us are saying catering to us in this forum, happen to sell very well. And those that we say didn't cater to us, also just recently died in droves.

There is nothing ironic about it. Cater to paying customers or starve. There are people who ARE pleased with the woke trend, but just because they are pleased doesn't make them BUY anything. No one bought Conccord, for example. You can barely find anyone who played it who didn't get given a copy as an influencer.

Yes, it is about supply and demand. Yes, it is a base animalistic desire to have fun. No, it is not very high brow. But making games cost money, so if you want to stay in business then make games that people want to BUY.

I think your first mistake is assuming that these games are catering to you specifically. They aren’t, even if your views and the head of say Black Myth happen to align. There is no world in which they made those games to appeal specifically to the anti DEI crowd. And if they did then they’d be way more overt about it in the actual product because they’d be targeting you. They made those games to inoffensively appeal to as many people as possible sell and make money, and they didn’t get too concerned with a push to feature any particular person because they were going for appeal over specifics. That’s not even to say that you can’t have a non standard protagonist be appealing, you can and numbers/sales back that up.

By the bay don’t be fooled into thinking Black Myth is selling as this vanguard against Woke, it’s selling by being fucking georgous and appealing strongly to Chinese nationalism. The fact that some people legitimately believe games like Black Myth are turning the tide IS good for bios ones though,

You say the numbers are in but do you really think the majority of people buying warhammer agree with the anti DEI stuff? Honestly?

 

[Redefine07]

Fuck off with your copy/pasta garbage games.

 

[knguyen]

imagine thinking 99.99% of your customers is "minority", this guy has gone full retarded.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

You say the numbers are in but do you really think the majority of people buying warhammer agree with the anti DEI stuff? Honestly?

Most people aren't anti-DEI, but they also want DEI to get the F off their hobby.

The anger was never about DEI; the anger is that DEI game developers SUCK at making games!

DEI developers has ideas that were rejected by the market, thus they should get lost. That is Capitalism. Consumers have the final say in what they buy, and if DEI game developers couldn't handle the fact that they are making a product to sell at a profit, then maybe they should go into Non-Profit work instead.

EDIT: i dare DEI developers to make a game as great as Black Myth Wu-Kong. Because clearly they are incapable of it.

 

[Stu_Hart]

How many of those are buying games?

They influence in some shady committee but their influence in the market is ZERO.

Enough with this bullshit.

You seem upset after basing it on woke devs vs gamers. Devs are pro-stakeholders, not pro-gamers. Gamers can be stakeholders and are just 1 part of the equation. If a dev is solely pro-gamer only, they will fail as a company.

 

[cormack12]

Most people aren't anti-DEI, but they also want DEI to get the F off their hobby.

The anger was never about DEI; the anger is that DEI game developers SUCK at making games!

DEI developers has ideas that were rejected by the market, thus they should get lost. That is Capitalism. Consumers have the final say in what they buy, and if DEI game developers couldn't handle the fact that they are making a product to sell at a profit, then maybe they should go into Non-Profit work instead.

EDIT: i dare DEI developers to make a game as great as Black Myth Wu-Kong. Because clearly they are incapable of it.

Essentially this. Except replace business with 'idea' or 'ideology'. But they are clinging to DEI and not moving on despite so many examples of games woth organic diversity just being accepted and successful

 

[Starbuck2907]

I don’t want to see Ubisoft go under. I like Ubislop. It’s McDonalds gaming. In moderation it’s enjoyable.

They just need to get their heads of of their collective asses. Only when things get bad does the CEO talk about a consumer oriented approach. Like what???

Management tries to let the creatives and artists do their thing until sales slump. But, we live in an era where every artist snd creative wants to virtue signal and be an activist. However, your average consumer doesn’t give a shit about being preached to or virtue signaling. They find it annoying. Copy and paste gameplay is also annoying. So whether grindy copy and paste games or woke creative decisions, people are tired of it.

The upper management is finding that out and will hopefully fix the problem. Or not…this is Ubisoft after all.

 

[Aguero9320]

And the relation to the topic in hand is.... ?

Inconvenient.

 

[Killer8]

"If you don't like it, don't buy it!" he shrieks as he's emptying his desk into a box with his name on it.

 

[PeteBull]

When was the last time Ubisoft made a good game?

AC:Black Flag was amazing both on pc and both gens of consoles so end of 2013, after that u can name for example ac: unity but it was only enjoyabe much later on high end pc, for example i completed it only in 2017 and it was amazing at max/close to max settings stable af 1080p60(i remember it visibly dropped frames once close to some tavern).
U can name South Park Stick of Truth as good game, and first mario and rabbits ones, but talking universally amazing at/close to launch and remembered by every1-we indeed have to go back 11 years for Ubi game

 

[Fafalada]

This generation cant handle criticism so they will not put themselves in a situation to be criticized... even by focus groups... its bizarre ... but there's just no other explanation ....

I just don't buy this explanation at all.
Corporations are not powered by 'generations' or even 'human-like'. And these are corporate PR responses - it's pervasive and orchestrated response trying to paint their own customer-base as hostile, not a few individuals taking offense to negative feedback. I actually sincerely doubt many of the PR mouthpieces behind these messages have strong opinions of their own either way in the first place.
And Ubisoft of all places has so many problematic skeletons of their own that trying to virtue-signal or be socially critical as a corporate message from them, is the ultimate pot kettle black thing.

The thing that's hard to comprehend though - irrespective of what said customers do or not do - is how this is supposed to help their business model - which is *just sales*.
It doesn't matter what auteurism, messaging, beliefs or whatever else you are coming from - ultimately, you either sell for $$$s or you don't. So the concept that you can somehow intimidate your customers into giving you more money - I don't think even AI would come up with that as a viable strategy.
Hell even Apple - for all the seething contempt they can display for their own users - tends to use carrot & stick method - not just the stick.

 

[Ben87fr]

At this point they really should shut the fuck up if they want to sell their games...

 

[Three]

I just don't buy this explanation at all.
Corporations are not powered by 'generations' or even 'human-like'. And these are corporate PR responses - it's pervasive and orchestrated response trying to paint their own customer-base as hostile, not a few individuals taking offense to negative feedback. I actually sincerely doubt many of the PR mouthpieces behind these messages have strong opinions of their own either way in the first place.
And Ubisoft of all places has so many problematic skeletons of their own that trying to virtue-signal or be socially critical as a corporate message from them, is the ultimate pot kettle black thing.

The thing that's hard to comprehend though - irrespective of what said customers do or not do - is how this is supposed to help their business model - which is *just sales*.
It doesn't matter what auteurism, messaging, beliefs or whatever else you are coming from - ultimately, you either sell for $$$s or you don't. So the concept that you can somehow intimidate your customers into giving you more money - I don't think even AI would come up with that as a viable strategy.
Hell even Apple - for all the seething contempt they can display for their own users - tends to use carrot & stick method - not just the stick.

I don't think this is designed to intimidate people into giving them money nor do I think it was endorsed by the company. It's not even blaming people for anything but just questioning their behaviour. This personal response is talking about people who have no interest in a product from a company hoping said company or product fails without any real good reason.

They're not even trying to get you to buy it with a stick, it's more if you don't want to buy it why do you wish for it to fail and people lose their livelihood? Coming from a monetisation director I can think of some good reasons why I hope some games fail but these aren't the same reasons others want Ubisoft to fail.

 

[N30RYU]

Down the drain pieces of shit

 

[Filben]

you are affecting thousands of employees

That should not deny any form of criticism. I'm not talking about death threats and that kind of stuff which is just stupid of course. But If I'm not doing my job right I'm called out for that. Repeat that often enough and, in the worst case, I gotta take my leave. Of course this will affect me. So do your actions and hence their consequences.

Do a solid job, start questioning yourself if things go south instead of blaming others for your situation.

 

[mckmas8808]

He has a good point. A lot of people wish companies to fail and even harass game devs when they make games that don't appeal to a determined target audience. See the announcement of any mobile game as an example.

But so what? What is he gonna do? Make jerks disappear from Earth? These comments will happen forever, so why put a light on them?

 

[digdug2]

He has a good point. A lot of people wish companies to fail and even harass game devs when they make games that don't appeal to a determined target audience. See the announcement of any mobile game as an example.

Yeah, but stop giving me the surprised Pikachu face when I don't buy the game that I'm not a determined audience for.

Star Wars Outlaws was meant to appeal to, you may have guessed it, Star Wars fans (along with people who like open world action/adventure games). Let's act like DEI isn't a thing in this instance. The game is an uninspired, janky mess that's light years behind other games that do similar things. In all honesty, it appealed to small fraction of the audience they were shooting for.

They put a fuck ton of money into this game and the ROI was pathetic. And this the latest in a string of games that performed like shit, which is why Ubisoft's value is roughly half of what it used to be. They should go under because they aren't making money. That's how business works.

 

[Roufianos]

Lmao. A guy whose job it is to scam kids out of their money lecturing us on morality.

 

[Tajaz2426]

I don't think this is designed to intimidate people into giving them money nor do I think it was endorsed by the company. It's not even blaming people for anything but just questioning their behaviour. This personal response is talking about people who have no interest in a product from a company hoping said company or product fails without any real good reason.

They're not even trying to get you to buy it with a stick, it's more if you don't want to buy it why do you wish for it to fail and people lose their livelihood? Coming from a monetisation director I can think of some good reasons why I hope some games fail but these aren't the same reasons others want Ubisoft to fail.

Serious question, why would a consumer care if a company fails at all? Happens everyday in the world if you do not produce a product people want.

Why would anyone care for the persons feelings at all? I care about his product, not him, his family, or even his dead grandma.

He can have all his feelings all he wants, but when you go against your core base, then you will run into people who will be straight up and say they do not want a company around that does that.

In my job, I’ve been spit on repeatedly, shot at on a daily basis, called a baby killer, had two teeth knocked out by folks who disagreed with me, blown up in a desert far away from home and I just smile and laugh. I volunteered for my job, just as they did.

Go to work, make a good product. People will buy it or not and give their company crap or not. This caring about feelings of some corporation and its people is crazy town.

 

[Fafalada]

I don't think this is designed to intimidate people into giving them money nor do I think it was endorsed by the company.

Maybe this specific instance wasn't - but a lot of reactions to other media products lately are certainly framed that way.
Ie. - "the product X failed/didn't meet expectations, and it's all because of the (toxic)fans - why don't you look inwards, be better people - and BUY more?" (I'm paraphrasing - but it's been very pervasive in media for past 2-3 years).
And this particular message coming right after Ubi stock cratering and major launches faltering makes coincidental thing feel similar, even if not intended.

This personal response is talking about people who have no interest in a product from a company hoping said company or product fails without any real good reason.

I suppose he only noticed it when it impacts him personally, so fair enough. But this problem is as old as the internet itself (in terms of platforming such behaviour - I'm sure it predates it otherwise) and obviously once the noise-amplifiers (modern social media platforms) became a thing - we just went off the rails fully with it as a civilization. But the problem is when this gets lumped in with ALL types of discourse that isn't only-positive (which is well - see above). There's no room for nuance in online discourse basically.

Coming from a monetisation director I can think of some good reasons why I hope some games fail but these aren't the same reasons others want Ubisoft to fail.

That question would make for an interesting study (distribution of reasons that different people might want company 'X' to fail). Ubi's painted a target on themselves there long time before any 'diversity' discourse entered the fray.
Eg. I admit - even if he has some valid points, I have a hard time sympathising with monetisation director from a company that employed NFT evangelists to 'redefine the future of their products' and then doubled and tripled down on the concept in face of the backlash around it.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

You seem upset after basing it on woke devs vs gamers. Devs are pro-stakeholders, not pro-gamers. Gamers can be stakeholders and are just 1 part of the equation. If a dev is solely pro-gamer only, they will fail as a company.

I don't care about woke, non-woke in this particular case. Going against the people who pay your bills is a dumb mindset. Moreover, when the business success depends a lot on creating a community. Antagonizing and dividing the fandom achieves no good. People are not attacking identified devs, but the company as a whole. This dude entering the chat like an elephant in a convenience store is putting himself in the spotlight just for brownie points. You can't get dumber than that.

When someone treats gamers as "outsiders" it's crystal clear who doesn't belong in the gaming industry.

 

[PleazureDome]

When was the last time Ubisoft made a good game?

This will probably be different for most people but mine was Assassin's Creed Syndicate. It got a lot of hate at the time because they were pumping these out yearly but I think they did a lot of cool advancements that got overlooked. This one had vehicles with wider streets so they gave you a grapple hook to get around faster which was nice when you were sick of climbing all the time. Your HQ was on a moving train so it was constantly changing around the map. The Brother/Sister aspect with different skill trees was decent and I really like the time period. They also stepped up the creative ways you could kill your main targets. If my memory is correct, they usually gave you three paths to choose from with their own unique animations/dialogue and escape. One of the most memorable ones for me was when you got to play as a corpse to sneak in a morgue and kill a doctor. When he pulls back the sheet you get to shank him in the neck. Plus we got Jack the Ripper DLC.

In terms of Far Cry, I like 3, 4 and 5. New Dawn and 6 were a big step down.

 

[Neff]

This guy works for an entertainment company. He's not selling fuel or medicine. He and his company should be begging for our business by offering an attractive product. If we reject the proposition of subsidising their limp virtue signal, we're perfectly within our right to do so, and publicly call it out as weak business in the process.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Monetization Director; talk about a position that should be eliminated.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

I can’t believe they keep digging while singing this song and doing this dance.

This must be coordinated. It can’t be by accident that every Ubi spokesperson has been committing PR suicide for a good couple of weeks at this point. There has to be some sane individual in there that realizes that all of this can only hurt the company. What is all of this supposed to accomplish? Summon some kind of woke superhero that will vaporize all the chuds and the incels and the toxic males and restore Ubisoft’s clout? It’s insane to see this unravel, day after day after day. Batshit crazy.

 

[danklord]

Idk it seems like investing millions of dollars and years of people's lives into a culturally out of touch, purposely divisive game that doesn't connect with your audience could be considered an industrial form of spreading hate.

 

[Felessan]

Thats how we can spot spy account, bros.
If some1 is actual gafer/core gamer then its obvious- we dont give a damn about mobile game announcements so who on gaf could be only ones that cares- hidden dev account =D

And ZZZ and Genshgin threads often hovering on top page are just illusion.
Don't generalize yourself to a whole community when it's obviously a lie.

Monetization Director; talk about a position that should be eliminated.

Nope.
People like to trigger over this position, but games are commercial products and thus go through finance and have to have to pass scrutinity of their project plan on how they will earn money. It's in best interest of everybody that good games earn money so studio can continue to make games.
It's actually better to have a good "monetization director" who has experience and know his stuff. Because to make game earn money with a good faith from players is tricky and if it's a some novice random guy who are in charge of financial side you are much more likely to see predatory practices (as they are obvious "easy money" and require knowledge to understand their long-term detrimental impact) or financial failure of a game, both of them are bad.

 

[twinspectre]

Where’s that shit shoveling meme when you need it?

Here we go

So accurate.

 

[Bernardougf]

I just don't buy this explanation at all.
Corporations are not powered by 'generations' or even 'human-like'. And these are corporate PR responses - it's pervasive and orchestrated response trying to paint their own customer-base as hostile, not a few individuals taking offense to negative feedback. I actually sincerely doubt many of the PR mouthpieces behind these messages have strong opinions of their own either way in the first place.
And Ubisoft of all places has so many problematic skeletons of their own that trying to virtue-signal or be socially critical as a corporate message from them, is the ultimate pot kettle black thing.

The thing that's hard to comprehend though - irrespective of what said customers do or not do - is how this is supposed to help their business model - which is *just sales*.
It doesn't matter what auteurism, messaging, beliefs or whatever else you are coming from - ultimately, you either sell for $$$s or you don't. So the concept that you can somehow intimidate your customers into giving you more money - I don't think even AI would come up with that as a viable strategy.
Hell even Apple - for all the seething contempt they can display for their own users - tends to use carrot & stick method - not just the stick.

I didnt say it makes sense... but it is what it is ... take disney/lucasfilm for example... for years they are antagonizing their old fans, trying to change and cater to a different target audience while failing and loosing money again and again, more recently it was 300 millions down the drain with the cancelation of The Acolyte, and nothing changes, not the leadership or anything.. it should be a "money first" business and absolutely is not.

Activism became really a priority and how it wouldn't be when this companys up to bottom are filled with this kind of people...

In my opinion there are two major problems, first is the bubble effect that make these devs/companys think that their DEI ecochamber of toxic positivy is a representation of the real world and target audience, and/or second we have activism taking priority, spreading the message and making a "better" world becames even more important than sales charts, the famous "woke points" with their peers and the media.

Yes is fucking stupid thinking that sales are not a priority... but that are several examples in the entertaiment industry of this not being the case.

 

[JohnnyPhats]

 

[DEAD ORIGINAL]

Most gamers want the seventh generation style games back fed up of woke shit