robertsan21
Member
I think you sir are correct.
Cant wait to see what the gods at ND brings us for PS4. They had the best games of the previous generation, and I think it will be the same for this one.
Ubisoft issues totally convincing response to Assassin's Creed Unity's resolution
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
I think you sir are correct.
Cant wait to see what the gods at ND brings us for PS4. They had the best games of the previous generation, and I think it will be the same for this one.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
I didn't knew 1080p was so important for so much person.
60 dollars important even !
Another person who misses the point entirely.
GhostTrick
Banned
Oh I get the point. Console war stuff, parity, whatever you want.
Lowest common denominator always existed. It's like everyone discover it.
King Tubby
Member
I didn't knew 1080p was so important for so much person.
60 dollars important even !
900p = 1440000 pixels
1080p = 2073600 pixels
1080p/900p = 1.44
I think getting 1.5x as many pixels is significant. It makes a huge difference just on my computer.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Nothing to do with console wars.
MilkyJoe
Member
Things I learned today;
- 900p looks like shit, even though 720p TLoU on PS3 was beautiful.
- Higher than warranted expectations for a yearly franchise*
*is it a yearly franchise now? there was one last year... I stopped playing after I woke up in the future in AC1... was not expecting that, still don't get what that is all about. Just here for the lols/cringes
- 900p looks like shit, even though 720p TLoU on PS3 was beautiful.
- Higher than warranted expectations for a yearly franchise*
*is it a yearly franchise now? there was one last year... I stopped playing after I woke up in the future in AC1... was not expecting that, still don't get what that is all about. Just here for the lols/cringes
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
If you think 720p with massive jaggies and sub 30fps framerate is beautiful then you need new eyes. It looked great but not beautiful.
Also it has nothing to do with expectations, if the Xbox can push it at 900p30 then the PS4 with it's extra power should be able to do it at 1080p30 without question.
Also it has nothing to do with expectations, if the Xbox can push it at 900p30 then the PS4 with it's extra power should be able to do it at 1080p30 without question.
GhostTrick
Banned
I know the difference between 900p and 1080p. It's just that some people weren't bothered before and are now really bothered.
I don't think anyone said that. But I don't think that if it would be the case, that'd be a reason to get so angry.
ACU has like ... eleventy studios working on it
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Savantcore
Unconfirmed Member
But the PS4 is more powerful. It can simply do more than the Xbox One. By default it should be better on Playstation than in Xbox, so they're definitely holding back if it's the same on both platforms.
I don't understand.
I don't understand.
Melchettsmoustache
Member
I bought the PS4 because it looked to me to be the better machine. No other reason, most of my friends don't have either. It was purely down to where I believed I would see the most "bang for my buck" cross referenced with which games I presumed would appeal to me. I have to say I'm gutted that sunset overdrive isn't on PS4 but thems the breaks.
I won't buy this upcoming assassins creed, despite owning all of the previous ones. Deliberately not further tuning the PS4 to placate another platform holder is unacceptable. Sadly I believe this will be what happens with multi plats. MS have to protect their interests, and to be fair, they have to stop the continued press that the PS4 is getting the stronger versions. MS have went from a position of strength to that of the chasing pack and sadly they have the most cash.
Panello said they wouldn't give up 30-40% to ps4 and he's correct. MS will do what they can to protect their machine, as they should do, they aren't going to let ps4 continue its sales dominance and I believe they will make strong attempts to purchase a few multiplats (either outright purchase or significant extended exclusives) and coerce various developers to consider the value in pushing ps4 to 1080p if XO can only reach 900p.
MS have the cash and unless Sony really pushes boundaries on their own studios releases to the point where it is irrefutable to the public that one machine is stronger then MS will muddy the waters as far as they can to bridge the current gap.
I won't buy this upcoming assassins creed, despite owning all of the previous ones. Deliberately not further tuning the PS4 to placate another platform holder is unacceptable. Sadly I believe this will be what happens with multi plats. MS have to protect their interests, and to be fair, they have to stop the continued press that the PS4 is getting the stronger versions. MS have went from a position of strength to that of the chasing pack and sadly they have the most cash.
Panello said they wouldn't give up 30-40% to ps4 and he's correct. MS will do what they can to protect their machine, as they should do, they aren't going to let ps4 continue its sales dominance and I believe they will make strong attempts to purchase a few multiplats (either outright purchase or significant extended exclusives) and coerce various developers to consider the value in pushing ps4 to 1080p if XO can only reach 900p.
MS have the cash and unless Sony really pushes boundaries on their own studios releases to the point where it is irrefutable to the public that one machine is stronger then MS will muddy the waters as far as they can to bridge the current gap.
GhostTrick
Banned
Mmh, the people cancelling their pre-order ? Or even just complaining like if someone terrible happened ?
The thing is that it's not doing so. It should, but it doesn't. As I said, lowest common denominator. Yet people could also complain how both Xbox One and PS4 are holding their PCs. But that would be counter productive, because, yes, lowest common denominator is a thing and it always has been.
How long have you had your 1080p TV for? Middle of last Gen? One of these systems is still living in the past, I want my moneys worthI didn't knew 1080p was so important for so much person.
60 dollars important even !
StrongBlackVine
Banned
How exactly are they going to stop it? Buying full exclusivity to dozens of 3rd party mega games? I see no other way.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Mmh, the people cancelling their pre-order ? Or even just complaining like if someone terrible happened ?
How does that make them angry?
They are putting their money where their mouth is and cancelling the publishers/developers game pre-order because they don't agree with their business practices?
No one is saying something terrible has happened, this is a forum, a forum is a place people discuss things. Just because someone is disagreeing doesn't mean they are angry.
I am more disappointed but not surprised because Ubisoft has a track record of doing this with games.
It should but it doesn't because there has been an artificial limit imposed by the developer. If the PS4 required a lot of work to get it up to 1080p standard then maybe I would understand, but it has the raw power and there is no logical reason why it has been artificially limited.
GhostTrick
Banned
I have a 1440p monitor. Both systems are living in the past, yet I'm not complaining about money back or such.
1080p was a thing in 2007... we're now 7 years later from that.
Of course, this isn't a good business practice and I totally agree with you. The thing is it's not the first time it happened, yet it maybe the first time it makes as much noise.
Maybe it does. You know, sometimes, things aren't only related to raw power but also how engines are made. I doubt Ubisoft is known for efficient engines and good performances.
Didn't the last of us remastered struggle with 60 fps already?
Pretty curtain that uc4 will be 1080p and 30 fps.
This, it makes me wonder just how much money Microsoft pissed away to undermine Sony, only to still remain in 2nd place.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
TLoU is running on a ported PS3 engine meant for a WILDLY different and FAR less powerful architecture.
With an engine properly adapted to the PS4 hardware I would be very surprised if it wasn't 60fps, especially after the 60fps Uncharted 3 video they produced back in the day.
UBI are doing an archeological dig?
there was no expectation for TLoU to ever be 1080p on PS3, we're in a new gen with new expectations, and yes 900p can look pretty damned bad due to no 1 to 1 pixelmapping.
I don't know it's like technology evolves and our expectations evolve with it, its strange isn't it?
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
When's this game even out?
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
I understand what you are saying but both machines have near identical architecture outside of memory subsystems, of which the PS4 has a superior one.
If you put a badly optimised game on machines with identical hardware the one that has more raw performance will always run the game faster.
What a load of nonsense. You really have no idea what its all about...
travisbickle
Member
I don't see how this is going to allay any concerns. It's exactly the same as the other statement, they're essentially bundling together the PS4 and One as next gen when everyone and their mother concludes there's a difference and putting them together is in essence "locking down the performance to stop the fuss".
They have to start talking about MS engineers, power of the cloud, freeing resources, and balance making up the difference, to fool the public now!
They have to start talking about MS engineers, power of the cloud, freeing resources, and balance making up the difference, to fool the public now!
MilkyJoe
Member
Edit: There was a great quote about a dev is given 100.. something... and he decideds how much of that goes into resolution, how much in to effects, into AA etc... Maybe they are both 900 but the end result is the PS4 version might look noticably better.
GhostTrick
Banned
Please explain. If I don't get it, then tell me what it is all about. Maybe I indeed missed a point, but the way I see it, it's exactly this.
So does PCs and PS4/One. Yet, with more than twice as much raw power, you don't always get twice as much performances.
Acquiescence
Member
This is really begging for one of those bish moments where he steamrolls into a thread and says "Oh yeah, which people? I want specific examples. You have until 12pm EST - GO!"
Nice blanket statement by the way dude.
And there you have it, I don't PC game and never will so I can't bring myself to care about your monitor, I'm a console gamer, always will be. Assassin's Creed is primarily a console game.
It's a new generation, I expect 1080p, and Microsoft is holding us back, because Ubisoft wants to prevent hurt feelings with their business partners (under the guise of preventing fan boy wars)
Now Ubisoft is saying basically "we have so many bushes in this game, you can pee in all of them" that it's justification for 900p when in reality, one of the systems could realistically give me soo many more bushes to urinate in, not only that but in 1080p it will be clearer, so those '1000's of peoole' can easily avoid stepping in it. But nope, Xbox can only do 900p so we will stop there, it's only fair right? Because people are not fearing that... with some cash handed over behind the scenes, this won't snowball out of control.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Of course it does. Just look at Black Flag, horribly unoptimised for PC but running with similar graphics settings to consoles it ran at 1080p60 compared to 1080p30 of PS4 or 900p30 of Xbox One. The extra power of the PC allows you to crank up the resolution to 1440p with 4xMSAA and still run at higher than 30fps.
The same principal applies here, the XBO can run 900p30 then the PS4 with it's extra raw performance should have NO problem hitting 1080p30.
THAT's what people are annoyed at, a developer saying oh it's locked at 900p to stop arguments then comes out and says no no my comments were spoken incorrectly or taken out of context, blah blah AI, blah blah CPU, etc..
The whole gaming community knows they are lying, and people aren't going to put up with it.
GhostTrick
Banned
Excuse me sir, but asking me to show you concrete exemple would require time I don't have and would be counterproductive.
People played 720p last gen, and people will still have lower resolution than 1080p for a good reason: Some developpers will prefer to push more effects than higher resolution. This is the case and it'll always be the case.
I never said it was right, what I meant is that such practice always existed ! Especially on the 6th Gen (PS2/Xbox/GC). Some developpers will use extra power, some just won't.
As I said, the whole argument "XXX is holding us back" is wicked, because everyone is holding anyone else.
Xbox One is holding PS4 back, yet PS4 is holding my PC back, yet my PC is holding another ones PC back.
See what I mean ?
Yet, performances didn't scaled that well, even taking into account more powerful CPUs.
You'll understand. Especially if you read the original Ubisoft statement.
Why are they even still talking at this point?
I find this new PR even more insulting than just outright saying they want to keep artificial parity.
Yea, act like you did your best on both consoles and had the exact same results, even tho there is a very clear hardware gap between them. Why else would AC4 and WD come out at different resolutions?
The simple fact that they blame the CPU for the lower resolution is ridiculous, lower resolution won't change the amount of NPCs the CPU still has to process. Resolution is GPU/Bandwidth heavy and we all know there is a very clear difference between the consoles in that regard.
This is pure Ubisoft cost cutting, no MS conspiracy theories, just plain Ubisoft greed.
I find this new PR even more insulting than just outright saying they want to keep artificial parity.
Yea, act like you did your best on both consoles and had the exact same results, even tho there is a very clear hardware gap between them. Why else would AC4 and WD come out at different resolutions?
The simple fact that they blame the CPU for the lower resolution is ridiculous, lower resolution won't change the amount of NPCs the CPU still has to process. Resolution is GPU/Bandwidth heavy and we all know there is a very clear difference between the consoles in that regard.
This is pure Ubisoft cost cutting, no MS conspiracy theories, just plain Ubisoft greed.
Melchettsmoustache
Member
I'm not sure they would go as far as dozens however, I believe, they will certainly attempt to bring more multiplats into their ownership. Minecraft being their initial foray into the process.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Do you work for Ubisoft PR?
The FACT is a PC with a GPU that has twice the TFLOPs of PS4 GPU ran the game at 1440p with far superior AA at 35-40fps, thats nearly double the increase in pixels rendered.
The PS4 with 30-50% more raw power should be able to run at 1080p30.
GhostTrick
Banned
It is held back. Someone could argue that if the lowest common denominator was a GTX Titan GPU, the game could target a higher graphic fidelity at 1080p and 30FPS. Because hardware is moving, and you'll always have a lowest common denominator. Then again, I totally agree with that, this isn't fair for a lot of users... but the video game industry isn't always fair.
And the fact is performances were far to be constant. Also, which gfx card ? How much more raw power ?
As you can see, an R9 290x has nearly 3 times more raw power... yet you don't see 3 times the performances of the PS4 version.
But I won't keep on the PC topic too long, because this is off topic. My point is that Lowest Common Denominator is a thing, and always has been. And people should've learned to live with it by now
(also, you don't need to call me a Ubisoft PR, I'm trying to be polite so it's normal for me to expect the same thing please
).akachan ningen
Member
This is amazing.
And here I thought I couldn't hate Ubisoft any more. Hearing about the parity was bad enough but this just head-shaking, face-palming nonsense.
And here I thought I couldn't hate Ubisoft any more. Hearing about the parity was bad enough but this just head-shaking, face-palming nonsense.
MilkyJoe
Member
Which gfx card?
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Taken from a Linus Tech Tips video.
If the 780ti, which is about 2 to 2.5x as fast GLOPS wise as 7850 which is the closest PS4 GPU comparison I can make, can push 1600p with massive amounts of AA then I'm sure the PS4 can do 1080p30 which is far less of an increase over 900p.
That's simply unacceptable though. That isn't how you win the hearts of consumers. Paying to make a competitors version worse. This is Microsoft all over honestly. They need reasons to say why a game is better on their console, graphics isn't everything. Why not pay for exclusive content? Why not fund the development of an awesome looking game and get it exclusively? That's how you win hearts. Taking games away or making them worse on competitors wont give you any cheers.
Their strength I feel is Xbox Live atm too. While I feel PSN has vastly caught up to XBL (and getting features and services XBL isnt to boot), I think XBL may still be faster and more stable. I've noticed PSN had become slower at loading friends list and messages and etc. lately.
I was planning on buying Farcry 4 on day 1. I'm now ready to just get it used from Gamestop a few months later (I have not purchased a used game in years). This type of shit I will not accept from any publisher.
Be lazy with the PS4 version of a game and I will make sure you don't see one dollar from me, on any game you're responsible for.
This is absolutely something that can become normal industry-wide. I really want to see what Activision does with CoD.
Be lazy with the PS4 version of a game and I will make sure you don't see one dollar from me, on any game you're responsible for.
This is absolutely something that can become normal industry-wide. I really want to see what Activision does with CoD.
MilkyJoe
Member
Taken from a Linus Tech Tips video.
If the 780ti, which is about twice as fast GLOPS wise as 7850 which is the closest PS4 GPU comparison I can make, can push 1600p with massive amounts of AA then I'm sure the PS4 can do 1080p30 which is far less of an increase over 900p.
Yeah, but with the PS4 has around a 7850 gfx card in it, and for a locked 30fps like the other graph your man posted, then you would have to look at which cards have around 30 as the minimum fps, and that is 7070/680 territory, probably less though due to the cosole closed environment, but still.. it's not out of the realms of reality here
GhostTrick
Banned
Taken from a Linus Tech Tips video.
If the 780ti, which is about 2 to 2.5x as fast GLOPS wise as 7850 which is the closest PS4 GPU comparison I can make, can push 1600p with massive amounts of AA then I'm sure the PS4 can do 1080p30 which is far less of an increase over 900p.
Well first of all, let's apply some basic logic here.
R9 290X is more powerful than R9 290, yet performs slightly worse.
GTX780ti is rated at 5Tflops, R9 290x at 5,6Tflops, GTX780 at 4Tflops and R9 290 at 4.8Tflops.
As you can see, this means nothing, since some performs the same and others performs a lot better.
R9 290 has 800gflops less than R9 290x and there's the same difference between GTX780 and R9 290.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
I know it has 7850 level performance I just said in my post.
1600p is double the amount of pixels over 1080p and that is even ignoring MSAAx8 they applied.
1080p is roughly 40-50% the amount of pixels over 900p, the PS4 has roughly 40% raw power over the XBO, I know it is a terrible comparison but there is no logical reason on this good earth why the PS4 can't run at 1080p.
The R9s were throttling due to being reference designs hence the slower performance.
GhostTrick
Banned
I thought the R9 290 wasn't a reference design ? That's what you said. Then again, you can just see the graph I posted about it. Scaling isn't the same as you claim it to be.
But then again, that's really off topic here.
So, PS4 may have more than 40% more raw power over Xbox One, but because of bad engine optimisation or so, it may not scale well. I'm not saying this is the case here of course. My point was first and foremost that don't exist since ACUnity and existed even before PS4 and One were ever made. I'm just surprised that this time, people seems to be more concerned by this.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
It's not the same because they can't optimise it for a 6 core CPU on a desktop because there are dual and quad core CPUs to take into account as well. That's not even taking Windows overheads and DirectX overheads into account.
Both machines have same CPU, both are using 6 cores, both have 8GB of ram, both have 7xxx series AMD GPUs, PS4 has at least 500GFLOP advantage.
Logic dictates that the machine with more raw power can run the game faster than the one with less, there is plenty of headroom to increase the resolution with the FPS locked at 30.
Why do you keep talking about bad optimisation, they are the same freaking platform. If you overclock your CPU and GPU on your PC you get faster performance. If you put in a faster GPU you get faster performance, whether its 1% or 100% faster the raw power gives you better performance.
GhostTrick
Banned
Then again, look at the picture I provided you. Or even the one you provided. There's no logic applied here either.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I see.
I think it's better to know the facts to have a fruitful discussion. At this point of time, I could easily say "even with the same resolution, the Xbox One version has low resolution texture and far worse NPC density so of course they wouldn't talk about that!" and it would be as legitimate a statement.
Dictator93
Member
Taken from a Linus Tech Tips video.
If the 780ti, which is about 2 to 2.5x as fast GLOPS wise as 7850 which is the closest PS4 GPU comparison I can make, can push 1600p with massive amounts of AA then I'm sure the PS4 can do 1080p30 which is far less of an increase over 900p.
Even though the amount of GFLOPs appears to be 2 to 2.5x, it is likely more in reality. NV Flops are in general better than AMD Flops.