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[Moosichu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Aoh1_UnpA

Lisa Nandy giving her opinion on the leadership election. She may have convinced me to vote for Owen Smith. (Maybe)

 

[PJV3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Aoh1_UnpA

Lisa Nandy giving her opinion on the leadership election. She may have convinced me to vote for Owen Smith. (Maybe)

I hope people vote for Smith, I'm not sure how it will turn out, but I hope people realise Corbyn means the end of the party. Nobody in the public will swallow the PLP pretending to support Jeremy, so they will have to split or get deselected later.

FPTP will do the rest.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

I'll vote for Smith as a Labour member, but I fear all those extreme leftist entryists will make Corbyn win again.

 

[samn]

The Labour party needs someone who

- is palatable to all sides

- didn't abstain in votes against benefit cuts, or make supportive mumblings about austerity

- didn't support the Iraq war

- didn't go crazy for privatisation of the NHS

- has some charisma and the ability to persuade

Why can't they find a single decent candidate? They don't even have to be amazing. They just have to tick the boxes to fit the role. Owen Smith and Angela Eagle are dreadful. So is anyone else that I can imagine standing. Why is the PLP, and in fact parliament as a whole, so devoid of talent? Maybe they really do need a clean sweep.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

The Labour party needs someone who

- is palatable to all sides

- didn't abstain in votes against benefit cuts, or make supportive mumblings about austerity

- didn't support the Iraq war

- didn't go crazy for privatisation of the NHS

- has some charisma and the ability to persuade

Why can't they find a single decent candidate? They don't even have to be amazing. They just have to tick the boxes to fit the role. Owen Smith and Angela Eagle are dreadful. So is anyone else that I can imagine standing. Why is the PLP, and in fact parliament as a whole, so devoid of talent?

Corbyn abstained in a vote on a bill tabled by Caroline Lucas for implementing Proportional Representation. So much for the new politics.

https://twitter.com/josiahmortimer/status/755786722227720192

 

[Omikaru]

Corbyn abstained in a vote on a bill tabled by Caroline Lucas for implementing Proportional Representation. So much for the new politics.

https://twitter.com/josiahmortimer/status/755786722227720192

I was pretty lukewarm on Corbyn before this. Now I am stone cold.

He must go. Utterly useless.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The Labour party needs someone who

- is palatable to all sides

- didn't abstain in votes against benefit cuts, or make supportive mumblings about austerity

- didn't support the Iraq war

- didn't go crazy for privatisation of the NHS

- has some charisma and the ability to persuade

Why can't they find a single decent candidate? They don't even have to be amazing. They just have to tick the boxes to fit the role. Owen Smith and Angela Eagle are dreadful. So is anyone else that I can imagine standing. Why is the PLP, and in fact parliament as a whole, so devoid of talent? Maybe they really do need a clean sweep.

Just having the first and last of those of a big ask! Plus the benefits cuts thing isn't a big deal IMO. There was some stuff in that bill that Labour members should support, some stuff they should oppose, it was going to pass either way so they abstained. Who gives a shit?

 

[Togame Rosecraft]

Can't Barrage the Farage~

 

[kirblar]

If nothing else, a split lets you ditch the "Labour" name which gets less and less relevant to how modern economics (decline of jobs that feature unions) and politics are working in today's world.

 

[PJV3]

Is the party going to let the Iraq thing ever go, Blair is gone, it was his little project and he even fucked the cabinet over it.


Learn from it, but let's move on.

 

[Moosichu]

Just having the first and last of those of a big ask! Plus the benefits cuts thing isn't a big deal IMO. There was some stuff in that bill that Labour members should support, some stuff they should oppose, it was going to pass either way so they abstained. Who gives a shit?

Labour members. Who the leader needs to be elected by.

 

[Azzanadra]

Is the party going to let the Iraq thing ever go, Blair is gone, it was his little project and he even fucked the cabinet over it.


Learn from it, but let's move on.

We never let the Republicans get away with it, why should (new) Labor get a pass? Just because they are left of the Tories? The fact is whoever gets elected in the US (Clinton or Trump) you either get a hawkish interventionist at best or an unhinged and unpredictable maniac who has the potential to be a warmonger at worst. Blair and his ilk survive through the people and policies of New labor, and we don't need more war criminals in office.

If the only way to get a win is to basically become a Tory is disguise then... what exactly is the point? No doubt Corbyn will win the leadership election again, and after all, why shouldn't he? It is the will of the people, and if he does win he needed to stay. And if Smith wins, again, the people have decided and then Corbyn needed to go.

 

[kharma45]

Labour MP Michael Dugher

There are many reasons to vote for a change of Labour leadership. Not having Diane Abbott on the radio every morning is just one of them...

https://twitter.com/michaeldugher/status/756035338196361216

One can dream.

 

[Uzzy]

Is the party going to let the Iraq thing ever go, Blair is gone, it was his little project and he even fucked the cabinet over it.


Learn from it, but let's move on.

Yeah, who cares about all the dead, all the treasure lost, all the chaos unleashed in the middle east that's led to the likes of ISIS. Blair's a war criminal, and even if it takes another thirty years, he should see the inside of a jail cell.

 

[Jackpot]

Is the party going to let the Iraq thing ever go, Blair is gone, it was his little project and he even fucked the cabinet over it.


Learn from it, but let's move on.

No. I will never ever vote for an MP who voted for "the Iraq thing", also known as the biggest war crime the UK has helped perpetrate in who knows how long.

 

[PJV3]

We never let the Republicans get away with it, why should (new) Labor get a pass? Just because they are left of the Tories? The fact is whoever gets elected in the US (Clinton or Trump) you either get a hawkish interventionist at best or an unhinged and unpredictable maniac who has the potential to be a warmonger at worst. Blair and his ilk survive through the people and policies of New labor, and we don't need more war criminals in office.

If the only way to get a win is to basically become a Tory is disguise then... what exactly is the point? No doubt Corbyn will win the leadership election again, and after all, why shouldn't he? It is the will of the people, and if he does win he needed to stay. And if Smith wins, again, the people have decided and then Corbyn needed to go.

The leadership from that time is gone, there's been several inquiries into the war, and the party has been beating itself up over it ever since.

It's not about getting away with It, it's about going on about internal party issues when the public has moved on.


I'm not a supporter of the Iraq war, I am happy to see Blair go to prison over it, I'm not happy to live under permanent conservative government as penance for twatface as he swans about the globe.

 

[m.i.s.]

Fascinating discussion on JC by George Galloway. Forward to 2:44.

George Galloway on Jeremy Corbyn

 

[Azzanadra]

Fascinating discussion on JC by George Galloway. Forward to 2:44.

George Galloway on Jeremy Corbyn

You know that video really brings up an interesting question I have been meaning to ask.

Why is it that Jeremy Corbyn needs to "go" or "get in line" and not the MPs? If the people voted for Corbyn, shouldn't these MPs respect the wishes of the people? Its like if the Republicans told their voters to fuck of, dumped Trump and made Paul Ryan the nominee. You may not like the choice the people made, but everyone is entitled to their vote.

 

[twobear]

Why does George Galloway look like Gabe Newell now

 

[samn]

You know that video really brings up an interesting question I have been meaning to ask.

Why is it that Jeremy Corbyn needs to "go" or "get in line" and not the MPs? If the people voted for Corbyn, shouldn't these MPs respect the wishes of the people? Its like if the Republicans told their voters to fuck of, dumped Trump and made Paul Ryan the nominee. You may not like the choice the people made, but everyone is entitled to their vote.

The MPs would argue they were collectively elected by 10m+ (or however many it was) constituents compared to Jezzer who was elected by a few hundred thousand.

 

[CyclopsRock]

You know that video really brings up an interesting question I have been meaning to ask.

Why is it that Jeremy Corbyn needs to "go" or "get in line" and not the MPs? If the people voted for Corbyn, shouldn't these MPs respect the wishes of the people? Its like if the Republicans told their voters to fuck of, dumped Trump and made Paul Ryan the nominee. You may not like the choice the people made, but everyone is entitled to their vote.

MPs are elected to represent the will of their constituents, not the will of Jeremy Corbyn. That's different to the US President.

 

[Moosichu]

You know that video really brings up an interesting question I have been meaning to ask.

Why is it that Jeremy Corbyn needs to "go" or "get in line" and not the MPs? If the people voted for Corbyn, shouldn't these MPs respect the wishes of the people? Its like if the Republicans told their voters to fuck of, dumped Trump and made Paul Ryan the nominee. You may not like the choice the people made, but everyone is entitled to their vote.

The ways the political systems in both countries differ makes it an apples and oranges comparison.

Political party membership in the UK is tiny for a start compared to the US. (as a % of population)

 

[Azzanadra]

MPs are elected to represent the will of their constituents, not the will of Jeremy Corbyn. That's different to the US President.

That's true, but as someone who also lives under a parliamentary system, I have noticed people don't care much about WHO the MP is so long as the have the party name next to their name on the ballot. Most people in my riding don't even know who "Navdeep Bains" (my MP) is, they just know they voted "Liberal" and for Justin Trudeau.

 

[Moosichu]

That's true, but as someone who also lives under a parliamentary system, I have noticed people don't care much about WHO the MP is so long as the have the party name next to their name on the ballot. Most people in my riding don't even know who "Navdeep Bains" (my MP) is, they just know they voted "Liberal" and for Justin Trudeau.

Agree wholeheartedly. Big problem with the consituency system as it is.

Didn't Trudeau pledge to introduce PR? Is that happening?

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Fascinating discussion on JC by George Galloway. Forward to 2:44.

George Galloway on Jeremy Corbyn

What the fuck is up with Galloway and that fedora?

 

[kirblar]

That's true, but as someone who also lives under a parliamentary system, I have noticed people don't care much about WHO the MP is so long as the have the party name next to their name on the ballot. Most people in my riding don't even know who "Navdeep Bains" (my MP) is, they just know they voted "Liberal" and for Justin Trudeau.

This isn't unique to parliamentary elections.

 

[Real Hero]

What the fuck is up with Galloway and that fedora?

Scars on his head from being beaten up apparantly

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Agree wholeheartedly. Big problem with the consituency system as it is.

Didn't Trudeau pledge to introduce PR? Is that happening?

I think Trudeau put together a committee to implement a new voting system for Canada.Also, the PR bill proposal failed by 7 votes and was not introduced formally.

https://hansard.digiminster.com/Com...tionAndReductionOfVotingAge)?outputType=Party

Voting records above. Corbyn you are disgusting. Get out now. If the party line was not abstain we could at least have a proper debate on the issue, even if it wouldn't pass. Then again other people would have turned up to vote against if Corbyn+party voted for it, but it's the principle of it.

 

[Azzanadra]

I think Trudeau put together a committee to implement a new voting system for Canada.Also, the PR bill proposal failed by 7 votes and was not introduced formally.

https://hansard.digiminster.com/Com...tionAndReductionOfVotingAge)?outputType=Party

Voting records above. Corbyn you are disgusting. Get out now. If the party line was not abstain we could at least have a proper debate on the issue, even if it wouldn't pass. Then again other people would have turned up to vote against if Corbyn+party voted for it, but it's the principle of it.

Pretty much, also the Liberals, NDP, Bloc and Green Party voted in favor of the NDP motion to create a committee to study electoral reform that will be proportional to the seat count in parliament. Its nice to see the other progressive parties uniting for this, they can all only benefit from this.

 

[CyclopsRock]

That's true, but as someone who also lives under a parliamentary system, I have noticed people don't care much about WHO the MP is so long as the have the party name next to their name on the ballot. Most people in my riding don't even know who "Navdeep Bains" (my MP) is, they just know they voted "Liberal" and for Justin Trudeau.

This may well be the case, but it's nonetheless the case that the people who elect each MP are not the same people who elected Corbyn as leader of the party, and it's the former that MPs are meant to represent. This is especially so when the leadership election occurs after the latest general election.

 

[Jackpot]

So Len McCluskey's gone of the deep end:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...es-using-dark-practices-against-jeremy-corbyn

Intelligence services posing as Jeremy Corbyn supporters could be behind the abuse and intimidation of MPs on social media in an attempt to “stir up trouble” for the Labour leader, the Unite boss Len McCluskey has suggested.

Asked if he believed the online abuse of Corbyn’s critics was posted by people trying to discredit his supporters, McCluskey said: “Of course, of course. Do people believe for one second that the security forces are not involved in dark practices?

Asked again if he believed that classified documents would eventually reveal the involvement of security forces in Corbyn’s leadership difficulties, McCluskey said: “Well I tell you what, anybody who thinks that that isn’t happening doesn’t live in the same world that I live in.

 

[PJV3]

So Len McCluskey's gone of the deep end:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...es-using-dark-practices-against-jeremy-corbyn

I could understand the logic if he was doing well and on the verge of becoming PM.

 

[Pandy]

Corbyn abstained in a vote on a bill tabled by Caroline Lucas for implementing Proportional Representation. So much for the new politics.

https://twitter.com/josiahmortimer/status/755786722227720192

Wasn't that the 10 minute bill that only 100 or so MPs were present for, so by default most abstained.

Fake edit: Yup, 81 votes against to 74 for. Only 154 MPs voted, going to shit on the rest of them for abstention too? https://www.politicshome.com/news/u.../77496/mps-reject-caroline-lucas-proportional

I don't want to say it was meaningless, but in the face of a Conservative government looking forward to implimenting boundary changes, it was meaningless. This wasn't a big deal, people.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

So Len McCluskey's gone of the deep end:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...es-using-dark-practices-against-jeremy-corbyn

Yeah. Keep telling unite they aren't getting another penny from me while this berk is in charge.

 

[infi]

One of Corbyn's aides is accused of entering an MP's office without permission.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36877185

A formal complaint has been lodged and the MP has requested an investigation in to this so it will be interesting to see if there's any merit to the complaint or not.

 

[Phantast2k]

One of Corbyn's aides is accused of entering an MP's office without permission.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36877185

A formal complaint has been lodged and the MP has requested an investigation in to this so it will be interesting to see if there's any merit to the complaint or not.

To address that John McDonnell went on Andrew Marr Show:

@MarrShow
.@johnmcdonnellMP looks straight into the camera: "We've got to stop this now. We've got to unite"#marr

@MarrShow
"We use the leadership contest to heal some of the wounds and bring us together" @johnmcdonnellMP #marr


Interesting tidbits:

@michaelsavage
McDonnell says he and Corbyn would resign if they lose a general election. First time I've heard that confirmed.

@paulwaugh
Did McDonnell just say the main problem with Marx, Lenin, Trotsky-inspired political systems was 'bureaucracy'?

Dat murder bureaucracy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladi...s.2C_Cheka.2C_and_Red_Terror:_1918.E2.80.9322
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror

@amolrajan
More #AccidentalPartridge gold @MarrShow. "If you look at this history of Labour Party, which I'm central to.." McDonnell means 'mainstream'

 

[kirblar]

One of Corbyn's aides is accused of entering an MP's office without permission.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36877185

A formal complaint has been lodged and the MP has requested an investigation in to this so it will be interesting to see if there's any merit to the complaint or not.

Jeez the parallels just keep on coming.

 

[Lego Boss]

So Len McCluskey's gone of the deep end:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...es-using-dark-practices-against-jeremy-corbyn

Take your own pens

 

[m.i.s.]

Why the powers that be fear Jeremy Corbyn
By Kevin McKenna

Words like "unedifying" and "unpleasant" don’t even begin to describe the campaign that the British establishment have undertaken to destroy Jeremy Corbyn. Try "sinister" and "malevolent" and "venomous" instead. Yet, when you assess the nature of the forces which are lined up against him and then observe how his very name brings them to a point where they begin to boil and froth, then you know Mr Corbyn must be a good man.

As well as the entire Conservative Party at Westminster and the editors and leader-writers of Britain’s right-wing press, Mr Corbyn is reviled by corporate Britain’s executive class and held in barely concealed contempt by the BBC in London. You can almost smell their fear and they are out to stop him at all costs. Under no circumstances can an authentic Socialist, red in tooth and claw, be allowed access to the levers of power. For then, who knows what he might bring down upon these his enemies; each of whom has a stake in the way that business is done in this country and thus has much to lose if Mr Corbyn were ever to gain the keys to 10 Downing Street.

You can’t even say Mr Corbyn is a loser; yet they all do. Every by-election on his watch has been won by Labour and four mayoral elections too. George Osborne, the man whom he held responsible for enslaving millions of families with austerity has been defeated, sacked by a new leader who has promised to introduce a fairer deal in the workplace. This is what Mr Corbyn has been all about since he became Labour leader and, as head of the opposition, he has enjoyed success.

The party coffers are now swilling with cash to fight future elections thanks to the huge increase in Labour Party memberships. Many of the new members are young people who have been energised by a politician who actually believes what he is saying, rather than one who makes endless compromises with the corporate interests who manipulate Parliament for their own ends.

Mr Corbyn isn’t like that. When the scandal about the extent of MPs' expenses claims first broke he was found to be among the lowest claimants. He wants to re-nationalise the railways, a policy that chimes with a public that has grown weary of profiteering and inefficiency by the train companies. He is supported by many economists who have stated his theories and policies surrounding public sector investment and managing debt and money is a much more equitable matrix for economic recovery.

Yet, the public are being given no opportunity to assess and measure Mr Corbyn’s policies for themselves. Instead they are told he is dangerous and he can’t be taken seriously because he doesn’t wear pinstripe suits and doesn’t know how to be properly obeisant to Her Britannic Majesty. BBC London seems to reserve a special contempt for him.

 

[Jezbollah]

Cult Corbyn at it's finest.

 

[Maledict]

What a load of rubbish. It creates a ridiculous premise (Corbyn is only losing because of the media!) and then uses that to justify how amazing he is.

It's weird how he's performing so much worse than Ed Miliband, a leader how was not only called 'red Ed' within hours of winning but also couldn't even eat a sandwich without revealing he was a replicant.

People just cannot face up to the fact that this country doesn't want a hard left leader, and that the white working class are happy to vote against their economic best interests if someone uses racism and bigotry to appeal to them.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Plus, I don't think anyone really believes "and doesn’t know how to be properly obeisant to Her Britannic Majesty." Of course he knows how, he's been in Westminster his entire adult life.

 

[JonathanEx]

Aha! Blame the media for why his policies aren't getting through. It's not that his team are incompetent at managing communications and how you get those policies across. Not at all.


What was the thing over the weekend where Corbyn claimed the biased media didn't cover a win in a Thanet by-election this week as it didn't fit the failure narrative?

And then it turns out it was a fucking parish election of 5000 voters or something.

 

[nelsonroyale]

The MPs would argue they were collectively elected by 10m+ (or however many it was) constituents compared to Jezzer who was elected by a few hundred thousand.

They went through a membership selection process and then where voted in by an electorate, many of which already supported Labour. With the Labour party more than any other party I suspect, people vote for the party in general elections and by elections, rather than the candidate themselves. Labour have a huge amount of party fanboys/fangirls in the 40+ generation, far fewer in the younger age group. That is one of the issues at stake here I reckon, their established fan base is eroding, and many of the younger section of the electorate are not commited through thick and thin by any means.

Jonathan Ex: Here is at least some proof: http://www.lse.ac.uk/media@lse/research/Mainstream-Media-Representations-of-Jeremy-Corbyn.aspx

Any to support your view? It is obvious, regardless of your ideological stance, you should be able to recognise narratives in the press.

Maledict: Let me put it directly to you. Do you think Corbyn's capacity to deliver and to communicate his message has been influenced by hostility within his own party and from much of the media? Do you think that has no effect? Furthermore, do you genuinely think hostility towards Corbyn originates in his 'leadership qualities' (Miliband hardly had any charisma nor policy clarity)? It is about ideological and policy differences...He basically represents an anti-neoliberal and managerialist stance...

 

[twobear]

it's a little sad, although i guess completely predictable, that independent studies finding that corbyn has come under constant and unprecedented attack from the media are ignored by labour supporters just because they happen to dislike the man.

 

[Maledict]

it's a little sad, although i guess completely predictable, that independent studies finding that corbyn has come under constant and unprecedented attack from the media are ignored by labour supporters just because they happen to dislike the man.

Because Ed Miliband suffered exactly the same and yet was polling much higher than Jeremy.

Because a big part of his failure is due to the utter incompetence of his leadership - they can't even get a press release out on time for heavens sake.

Labour leaders suffer bad press, it's part of the job unfortunately. And another part of the job is how you manage it, and Jeremy and his team have utterly, utterly failed at every aspect of media relations or even getting some coherent policies out there. He's the one giving the media the tools to work with.

Quick question, having watched his leadership launch - other than his incredibly fucking stupid policy of adding equalities regulation to small businesses what other policies has he announced? What positive messages were in his speeches? What appeal did he make to the vast majority of the population that sits in the centre ground?

If it isn't there in the first place the media can't make shit up.

 

[Xun]

Because Ed Miliband suffered exactly the same and yet was polling much higher than Jeremy.

Because a big part of his failure is due to the utter incompetence of his leadership - they can't even get a press release out on time for heavens sake.

Labour leaders suffer bad press, it's part of the job unfortunately. And another part of the job is how you manage it, and Jeremy and his team have utterly, utterly failed at every aspect of media relations or even getting some coherent policies out there. He's the one giving the media the tools to work with.

Quick question, having watched his leadership launch - other than his incredibly fucking stupid policy of adding equalities regulation to small businesses what other policies has he announced? What positive messages were in his speeches? What appeal did he make to the vast majority of the population that sits in the centre ground?

If it isn't there in the first place the media can't make shit up.

The Corbyn hate started before he even became the leader of the party.

The same cannot be said for Ed.

 

[Maledict]

The Corbyn hate started before he even became the leader of the party.

The same cannot be said for Ed.

???

Were you reading the press during the last election? As soon as he announced the 'back stabbed his brother!' stories started! The day he won the press ran with the Red Ed and union involvement!

 

[nelsonroyale]

Because Ed Miliband suffered exactly the same and yet was polling much higher than Jeremy.

Because a big part of his failure is due to the utter incompetence of his leadership - they can't even get a press release out on time for heavens sake.

Labour leaders suffer bad press, it's part of the job unfortunately. And another part of the job is how you manage it, and Jeremy and his team have utterly, utterly failed at every aspect of media relations or even getting some coherent policies out there. He's the one giving the media the tools to work with.

Quick question, having watched his leadership launch - other than his incredibly fucking stupid policy of adding equalities regulation to small businesses what other policies has he announced? What positive messages were in his speeches? What appeal did he make to the vast majority of the population that sits in the centre ground?

If it isn't there in the first place the media can't make shit up.

Can you cite equivalent proof for your assertions? Also, that the attacks are off the same nature? Also, you do realise the politics that Corbyn represents is trying to shift the centre ground, not mearly appeal to it. There is a fundamental misrepresentation/misunderstading of what this is about...

 

[Jezbollah]

If it isn't there in the first place the media can't make shit up.

Indeed. When a lot of the stories from the media are driven through legitimate issues reported by his own MPs in the PLP then you have to wonder where the actual blame really lies.