Napoleonthechimp
Member
I have no idea who she is.
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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.
- Thread starter Chinner
- Start date
I have no idea who she is.
about as revealing as Labour's opposition economic policies
She was the one talking when Murdoch took the pie to the face.
this guy are sick
Member
I know this was sort of answered earlier but I guess it might help adding more to this, so here's a bunch of figures by everybody's favorite credit rating agency Moody's back when they were consulting the US govt. on fiscal stimulus:
(sorry that these are figures taken from the US but the data is still relevant)
Note that both increased spending and lower taxes in the form of rebates both leading to an increase in real GDP. I guess you could argue that the govt. wouldn't be directly tackling our deficit, but then again, according to the treasury themselves:
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/pfg_deficit_reduction.htm said:
You might not be able to spend money without making money, but governments can, it's pretty much how they operate as they're the ones in control of the treasury, whatever they've spent is raked back in from taxes and bonds if needs be.
louis89
Member
That £60bn is the yearly deficit figure, i.e., what the government overspends every year. Vodafone is alleged to owe a one-off payment of £6bn. Even if the claim and your calculations were correct, and the payment was collected, 90% of this year's structural deficit remains, which goes back up to 100% the following year.
No, benefit cheats (and the bottom of society in general) are far more damaging. They cost this country in many different ways - benefit payments, law and order costs, increased use of the NHS, bringing down educational standards... etc. "Corporate tax dodgers" employ thousands of people and pay at least some of the tax they owe (not saying that that's acceptable). They are of net benefit to this country.
If it were me in government, and thankfully it never will be, I'd MASSIVELY simplify all of the corporate tax laws in this country, no tax evasion if it's written in plain writing. And I'd bring back means tested disability benefits in a way that isn't as distressing as means testing used to be. I'm sure disabled people would welcome it if it meant that they got a bigger share of the money and less fraudsters used it.
"by drinking coffee, the Occupy protesters are highly hypocritical and showing their love of capitalism"
el retorno
Member
I gotta question from as a not british person.
I was having a conversation with my english friend and we were talking about the Political parties in the UK I said something to the effect that the Lib-dems seemed like the most left of the parties. My friend who is a militant for Labour quickly said that no Labour is more the left.
I´ve never really studied British Politics much besides the actual way the government works (whitehall, parliment, etc) but can anyone tell me how the parties actually line up on a left-right continum. Most of my knowledge about british politics comes from Blair onwards and in the last debates it seemed Clegg was more Liberal (in the american sense) than Brown was.
I was having a conversation with my english friend and we were talking about the Political parties in the UK I said something to the effect that the Lib-dems seemed like the most left of the parties. My friend who is a militant for Labour quickly said that no Labour is more the left.
I´ve never really studied British Politics much besides the actual way the government works (whitehall, parliment, etc) but can anyone tell me how the parties actually line up on a left-right continum. Most of my knowledge about british politics comes from Blair onwards and in the last debates it seemed Clegg was more Liberal (in the american sense) than Brown was.
It depends what you call "left or right" and in reality, the word "liberal" is often thought of to mean "left" when in reality it means belief in Liberal Capitalism (normally classical).
I still think that, of the main three, Labour are the furthest left.
killer_clank
Member
Here's some good graphs that shows the travel of the parties over time and their current positions:
Tony Blair shifted politics in general to the right, every party aside from hardcore socialists and greens share a basic neoliberal consensus.
killer_clank
Member
So many people in this country completely misunderstand the term Liberalism, probably due to America's use (misuse?) of it. Which is part of the reason it isn't particularly shocking they went with the Tories, especially since the social democratic side of the Lib Dems dissipated somewhat after Kennedy.
el retorno
Member
Well I was saying for example that Clegg advocated freer imigration which he said isn´t "left" in the british political world. Or Clegg seemed much more invested in education which again seems more left. Maybe it was all the clegg-obama comparisions which made everything confusing.
I don´t know about their relationships with businesses or health care for example. So maybe that is what he was talking about.
I don´t know about their relationships with businesses or health care for example. So maybe that is what he was talking about.
The Liberal Democrat's beliefs are basically that the government should work to remove barriers to social mobility and that everyone should have an equal start to life, which is different to the more welfare state friendly Labour party.
Views on immigration are generally off the left-right spectrum and are personal/party preference.
killer_clank
Member
The Lib Dems were formed from a merger between 2 parties - the Liberals and Social Democrats. The Liberals were traditional classic, pro free market party back in the 1800s and early 1900s that had a bit of a radical streak in them, planting the seeds of the welfare state. They went into complete freefall after this.
The Social Democrats were formed from a bunch of ex Labour politicians who were pissed about Labour being too left wing.
The 2 parties first formed a coalition, then merged into one party, and in the early years the social democrats dominated. This basically continued until the election of Nick Clegg as leader, who's probably the most traditionally Liberal of their leaders, very pro free market, but a large emphasis on improving social mobility through education and equal opportunities.
The Labour party are definitely more left-wing than the Lib Dems currently, although this was probably the reverse under the leadership of Charles Kennedy, who was definitely more from the Social Democratic side.
Course one of the odd things about British politics is that the conservatives aren't actually true 'Conservatives' anymore, their last 2 governments have embarked on massive programs of social reform.
both the lib dems and labour comprise of weird alliances between market liberals and social democrats which makes these things quite fluid. i think that the lib dems were more social democratic than labour right up to the last election, though they've both changed since the coalition.
Its also worth remembering that, in terms of the American system, Labour aren't anywhere near the spectrum, Lib Dems are probably similar to the most left wing Democrats (Obama for example, is quite close to Clegg on a lot of issues), and the Conservatives are probably similar to blue dog Democrats.
BBC - Assisted suicide: 'Strong case for legalisation'
Could definitely see this happening sometime fairly soon. Fairly sure I'd be OK with it, as long as it was very carefully done.
Could definitely see this happening sometime fairly soon. Fairly sure I'd be OK with it, as long as it was very carefully done.
I know it's not what I should think of, but this would save shitloads of money.
I'm massively in favour of this.
Naughty Diane Abbot. I must admit, I tittered.
There's something surreal about that story. It might be the twitter chat interspersed in there.
I'd vote that woman in as queen and happily live with the sexy consequences.
There's something surreal about that story. It might be the twitter chat interspersed in there.
Weird, I was just thinking about Louise Mensch.
I'd vote that woman in as queen and happily live with the sexy consequences.
I don't think white people have a monopoly on 'divide & conquer' but then I also don't think for one minute that Diane Abbot is racist. She's ethnocentric as fuck but that's because her job depends on it.
Still quite funny to see her in The Guardian embroiled in a race row though.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
And the trend of Diane Abbot not saying sensible things continues.
J Tourettes
Banned
I can't stand Abbott, the backpedalling is glorious.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
To be fair, this really is the same as those articles in glossy magazines about Royals and Politician's families.
J Tourettes
Banned
Abbott getting a call from Ed in the middle of an interview with Sky: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/01/sky-news-called-abbott-live
Personally I couldn't give much of a fuck what the daft bint says as she's usually full of utter shite but it's nice to see her get some shit.
Personally I couldn't give much of a fuck what the daft bint says as she's usually full of utter shite but it's nice to see her get some shit.
This is why people who supported Abbott in the leadership contest were deluded, she says really fucking racist shit. And yes, this was racist. No bones about it.
In fact, she hasn't even apologised properly, she said that she was talking about 19th century colonialism when she clearly wasn't, she was talking about the Lawrence trial. She gave one of those bullshit apologies where she said "sorry you interpreted it wrong". Conservative MP Nafhim Zahawi has said “If this was a white member of Parliament saying that all black people want to do bad things to us he would have resigned with the hour or be sacked.”
I can't help but agree.
In fact, she hasn't even apologised properly, she said that she was talking about 19th century colonialism when she clearly wasn't, she was talking about the Lawrence trial. She gave one of those bullshit apologies where she said "sorry you interpreted it wrong". Conservative MP Nafhim Zahawi has said “If this was a white member of Parliament saying that all black people want to do bad things to us he would have resigned with the hour or be sacked.”
I can't help but agree.
From Wiki:
"Abbott has made several comments which gained a strong response. In 1996, she commented that at her local hospital "blonde, blue-eyed Finnish girls" were unsuitable as nurses because they had "never met a black person before". She referred to David Cameron and Nick Clegg as "two posh white boys" in May 2010."
I'm no longer certain about Diane. I'm smelling a tinge of racism.
"Abbott has made several comments which gained a strong response. In 1996, she commented that at her local hospital "blonde, blue-eyed Finnish girls" were unsuitable as nurses because they had "never met a black person before". She referred to David Cameron and Nick Clegg as "two posh white boys" in May 2010."
I'm no longer certain about Diane. I'm smelling a tinge of racism.
Hate to admit it, but Nafhim Zahawi is right, if a white MP said these things we would be immediately calling for his/her resignation.
dr_octagon
Banned
she was a token black woman, couldn't get enough support to enter the race and nobody thought she had a chance, she's a political lightweight and got ripped apart by andrew neil
another classic moment of stupidity - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxRqMJHG56A#t=1m33s
That's because white people are seen as the dominant group and we have an illustrious history of being fabulously racist (as does everyone else but we made the biggest formal deal about it). I don't necessarily mind the double standard as long as we openly admit that it's a double standard.
I think perhaps we ought to look at the way we treat white people who make questionable statements rather than drag Diane Abbott through the streets as well. Let's have some nice and open discussion about racial politics in modern day Britain. Make a BBC special out of it.
I hope she isn't allowed to pretend there was a wider context and the statement was somehow 'not racist'. Before this is over I want to see her admit she knows why she offended people. That's all I want, not even an apology. She doesn't owe me (or anyone else) an apology IMO.
I can't help but see Abbott's position as untenable now, if she stays then I'm afraid the BBC website commenters (BNP nutters normally) and the Daily Mail crowd would be proven right, racism in the UK is a one way street, certain ethnic minorities get the benefit of saying grossly racist things and can get away with it. This isn't a racist thing to think, and I'm sure one or two of you will criticise me for saying it, but the most "equal" thing to do in this case is treat her in the same way as a white person would for saying "Black people love....*MASSIVE GENERALISATION*. We should not play their game" and fire her.
There's never a good excuse for hypocrisy, so the double standard is unproductive regardless of admittance to it. White people shouldn't be held to some burden for all the bad things their ancestors did, nor should black people be allowed to persistently distinguish the differences between the two without repurcussions. Also, anyone politically affiliated shouldn't be getting their material from stand-up comics.
I don't know if you know this, sir, but I have a non-white girlfriend, and that allows me to make gross racial generalisations and slurs.
You just don't know yet because the Society of Discerning Racists hasn't contacted you yet. They find you.
I don't know, I'm pretty offended. If she said "White people loved playing divide or rule" then, yep, fair enough, we did, however, no white person in the UK that is alive took part in that (colonialism stuff) and many, if not the vast majority, of white people in this country are in favour of racial equality, so what she did was basically condemn the entire white population of the country as being white people who love to divide ethnic minorities, even though many work to break down barriers between them.
Again, she should resign or be fired by the end of the day, I can't see any other solution as acceptable (barring a full, ACTUAL apology, but I don't think she has the strength of character to give one)
J Tourettes
Banned
![7FsVe.jpg[url]](http://i.imgur.com/7FsVe.jpg[url])
I agree with you, I was just saying (I think) I understand why things are the way they are. It will change, but very very slowly.
Arf arf. I saw someone earlier propose she should be punished with an 8 Match Ban.
For those who were following the Suarez stuff
Kenny needs replacing with Ed and then it will be golden.
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/01/white-abbott-black-context
Bullshit apologism.
She wasn't fucking refering to colonialism, her hashtag said "#tacticsoldascolonialsm" not "#tacticsofcolonialism".
She's continually been shown to be racist, at NUMEROUS times and is, by quite a way, the most racist MP in the house.
I fundamentally disagree.
Bullshit apologism.
She wasn't fucking refering to colonialism, her hashtag said "#tacticsoldascolonialsm" not "#tacticsofcolonialism".
She's continually been shown to be racist, at NUMEROUS times and is, by quite a way, the most racist MP in the house.
New Statesman said:
I fundamentally disagree.