"When one racial group is so dominant, both numerically (in Britain) and politically (worldwide), pejorative language simply does not have the same power or resonance."
I called it. I'm good at this game.
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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.
- Thread starter Chinner
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"When one racial group is so dominant, both numerically (in Britain) and politically (worldwide), pejorative language simply does not have the same power or resonance."
I called it. I'm good at this game.
J Tourettes
Banned
I don't. As a white east Londoner of various white backgrounds (Irish, English, Jewish and some Romany somewhere further back), I couldn't give a fuck if someone calls me honky, goora, paddy etc.
Not that I agree with their stance that Abbott was referring to colonialism as that's complete bollocks.
Do your feelings actually count for anything though?
I know what you're saying (and I feel the same) but we don't assess the severity of slurs according to how one or two people feel, we account for the feelings of the group. For all we know, tons of white people might be offended as fuck.
I think we should let all words slide but treat prejudiced actions harshly. Sadly, I'm not the boss.
J Tourettes
Banned
I'm not saying it doesn't count, just saying that it's not as powerful.
J Tourettes
Banned
I think there are a lot of people out there that have driven themselves into a frenzy over this so that the 'hard working, indigenous people of this country' can feel hard done by but aren't actually that offended.
I agree with the bolded, in an ideal world.
You are absolutely right not to accept that and I can't work out how people can argue against this. I have even witnessed an incident once, where a black person was accused of being a racist/making a racist comment and his response was "how can I be a racist? I am black."
Racism exists in every society and it doesn't matter if it's directed to a minority, or the majority. it's still racism
What do you mean, powerful?
God people are speaking in really indirect ways about this and it's pissing me off.
If someone said "fuck off you white cunt" or "fuck off you goora bastard" then how is that not as powerful as someone saying "fuck off you black cunt"?
edit:
I think the one thing that this incident is showing is that we really need to re-work the racial politics of this country. That isn't to say that white people are an underpriveleged people or whatever, clearly legislative and affirmative action needs to be taken to help ease inequality, but the way things work when it comes to slurs isn't fair.
CHEEZMO™;34017005 said:
I think it's spelt 'gora' but I might be wrong. It's used as a slur, usually used in conjunction with another word that I will misspell as 'Gunda'. I grew up with asian friends and my nickname* was a 'Gunda Gora'. I suspect it was much harsher than the way I've broken it down below...
Gunda - hooligan
Gora - White Guy
Gori - White Girl
*Wasn't really a nickname, it was a straight up insult. Thing is, I'm arrogant enough not to give a fuck. I embrace that Dirty White Boy label.
J Tourettes
Banned
Probably because I haven't had to deal with years of oppression and inequality due to my skin colour, at a guess. Someone calls me a white cunt, of course I'd be having words with them but it'd be more to do with the cunt than the white.
As I've previously stated, I can't stand Abbott and am pleased to see here in yet more shit but am not going to pretend that a lot of the outrage isn't from middle class whites wanting to feel hard done by (AKA Daily Mail and Telegraph demographic).
I think one of the worst things about this scandal is the cognitive dissonance of the people defending her saying "she's apologised, let's move on".
She hasn't apologised, she's said that it was taken out of context. We know the context, it's on our computer screens. So it wasn't taken out of context. And she did that bullshit apology thing of "I'm sorry if it offended anyone". That isn't an an apology, or a withdrawal, it's just some slimy, egotistical, faux-apology that politicians use.
I'd be satisfied if she either:
A) Said "I fully apologise and regret my comments. I did not mean them"
B) Resigned
I don't think either will happen, and it will really hurt the Labour party's numbers, at least in the near future (which I suppose doesn't really matter too much).
She hasn't apologised, she's said that it was taken out of context. We know the context, it's on our computer screens. So it wasn't taken out of context. And she did that bullshit apology thing of "I'm sorry if it offended anyone". That isn't an an apology, or a withdrawal, it's just some slimy, egotistical, faux-apology that politicians use.
I'd be satisfied if she either:
A) Said "I fully apologise and regret my comments. I did not mean them"
B) Resigned
I don't think either will happen, and it will really hurt the Labour party's numbers, at least in the near future (which I suppose doesn't really matter too much).
I'm not sure it's that simple. I think you have the right people, but the wrong mindset. I think they think that black people feign offence when white people are racist, rather than being genuinely offended. Now the shoe is on the other foot, it's time to feign offence.
I could well be wrong though. One thing we agree on is that the percentage of people genuinely offended is probably minuscule. Isn't that always the way though?
I don't know, I'm quite offended.
I don't think anyone could argue that her comments aren't offensive. It's not even like a lot of the bullshit "racist" things people say, like calling a black football player "coloured" by accident or whatever, it was a very offensive comment that makes white English people seem evil.
Sorry, I really don't mean to downplay your feelings, I can understand why you would find this offensive. I'm not saying your offence is anything other than legit, I'm just saying that most people don't really care about this sort of thing on an individual level.
As I said earlier, I'd rather we stopped over-reacting when white people say insensitive things rather than haul Diane across the coals too. What would affect cohesion, IMO, is if Abbott wriggles off the hook and then we have another 'scandal' on the level of the Jade Goody Racism Farce the next time a white person says something much less offensive. That would give Mail readers some real ammunition.
I dunno, I think there are two distinct types of "racism" that we see in the media:
1) Un-PC comments (e.g. Alan Hansen calling a player coloured)
2) Racist comments (e.g. David Starkey "the whites are becoming black")
I think that people who do 1 are stupid and put their foot in their mouths. I think people that do 2 (and Abbott's tweet was a racist comment) need to get to the bottom of why they consider the need to say racist stuff, and shouldn't hold public office.
And I think that this is a fair, equality driven position to hold.
Vivalaraza
Member
Hey guys, I have a presentation to do in a few weeks for one of my Uni modules. The question is...
Is the Coalition Government's welfare reform strategy programmatic or systemic retrenchment? Refer to at least two social policy areas.
Just wondering if I could pick your brains as to what you guys think, I've made a start already, but the discussion always look good and well informed in here so thought i'd see if I can pinch any of your ideas GAF!
Is the Coalition Government's welfare reform strategy programmatic or systemic retrenchment? Refer to at least two social policy areas.
Just wondering if I could pick your brains as to what you guys think, I've made a start already, but the discussion always look good and well informed in here so thought i'd see if I can pinch any of your ideas GAF!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16427941
*vomits*
"The school day should be lengthened to prepare pupils for work, says Shadow Education Secretary Stephen Twigg."
this shouldn't be the purpose of education really. at least directly.
"A long hours culture has its drawbacks, but how many employers expect their workers to leave the office at 3.30pm?"
how many offices have homework and after school clubs. why are children expected to function like adults, especially given the need for external development at that age and lower attention spans
"He also said that a longer school day could help pupils living in poor housing conditions find a quiet place to study, and persuade others who might be drawn into gangs to stay out of trouble."
public libraries still exist for the former. lol at longer school days getting people out of gangs, more likely to alienate people from education by being so bored.
reminder that the finnish education system, ranked one of the best in the world, has some of the shortest school days of any developed country.
*vomits*
"The school day should be lengthened to prepare pupils for work, says Shadow Education Secretary Stephen Twigg."
this shouldn't be the purpose of education really. at least directly.
"A long hours culture has its drawbacks, but how many employers expect their workers to leave the office at 3.30pm?"
how many offices have homework and after school clubs. why are children expected to function like adults, especially given the need for external development at that age and lower attention spans
"He also said that a longer school day could help pupils living in poor housing conditions find a quiet place to study, and persuade others who might be drawn into gangs to stay out of trouble."
public libraries still exist for the former. lol at longer school days getting people out of gangs, more likely to alienate people from education by being so bored.
reminder that the finnish education system, ranked one of the best in the world, has some of the shortest school days of any developed country.
Great policy imo. If we could extend the school day to even, say 6pm, we'd have the kids being fed their dinner (tea for up t'north) at school and kids would be way healthier. You shouldn't be teaching the kids after 3pm imo, but instead conducting extra-curricular stuff, you know sports, creative arts, music all that kind of stuff.
Plus it would allow mums, especially single mums, a greater chance at entering the workplace, with them not having to worry about picking up their kids at 3pm.
Ban packed lunches while your at it!
Of course this would all have to come with a pretty hefty increase in the education budget, but one that would be FANTASTIC value for money for the UK's long term future.
edit
in fact, this is a really big thing for me, it could even be a vote winner. (its not, I still think Labour aren't sensible enough economically)
Plus it would allow mums, especially single mums, a greater chance at entering the workplace, with them not having to worry about picking up their kids at 3pm.
Ban packed lunches while your at it!
Of course this would all have to come with a pretty hefty increase in the education budget, but one that would be FANTASTIC value for money for the UK's long term future.
edit
in fact, this is a really big thing for me, it could even be a vote winner. (its not, I still think Labour aren't sensible enough economically)
StealthGoblin
Banned
Where are teachers going to pull these magical hours from? That would mean yet MORE lesson planning and then an increase in the volume of work to be marked. I'm hoping that these thoughts only refer to Secondary Education. Keeping Primary aged children in from 9 until 5 is a disaster waiting to happen. Let children be children for fucks sake.
Funding would have to go up considerably because more resources will be used. Wages of teachers, teaching assistants, learning support assistants and translators will have to go up too.
I'd argue that for a bloody huge amount of poor/disadvantaged children, school is a much better place to let children be children than home. Much better.
School doesn't have to mean work. Give em playtime, give em some musical instruments, get em playing rugby, not hanging outside a Spar before tea.
yeah that policy sounds great. we really need to teach kids that at the end of the day they're products to be sold and that theres no real meaning to life outside of work. in fact we should show them a video when they join school when they're 6 years old saying that there is no god and they will achieve nothing great in there lifes and then we can supply them with cyanide pills cause life is a zero-sum game.
StealthGoblin
Banned
Teachers aren't babysitters. For arguments sake, lets assume these proposals are made into legislation. The time would be much better spent on Art Design & Technology, Religious Education, ICT, P.E. etc because those are all under-represented in the current curriculum (which is itself being shaken up in 2014). Every single one of those would of course benefit from more teaching time. Government would go along with that too.
If there is more contact time then the wages will need to increase proportionately, which means that all wages of teachers, TAs. LSAs and Translators will need to go up by 15-20%. That means a teacher at M6 (the last level of yearly salary increase) in inner London will go up from £36,387 to £41,845 based on the lower 15% estimate.
If we take 5pm as the 'go home' time, that means that I'll be expected at my desk at 8:30 every morning, and will be expected to be at my desk until 5.30pm. PPA time is nowhere near enough for a teacher planning/marking to an 'outstanding' level so most of the planning is done at home, so I'll still be working when I get in and because of the additional lessons, I'll have an additional one or two to plan for every single day.
Given the modern high expectations for lesson planning (differentiation of tasks, use of resources, interactive whiteboard games/activities, synthetic phonics, miscue analysis etc) and the need to ongoing assessment to maximise one's understanding of each individual child's attainment, strengths and weaknesses. .any increase in contact time will have serious consequences for teachers.
Now, consider that the vast majority of Primary school teachers are female and that a large proportion of them, particularly the younger ones have families of their own to manage. An increase in working hours for them will be more or less unbearable.
Just thought about parents evenings . . .they'd finish ruddy late too.
Hire more staff, pay higher wages, leave post 3pm education in the hands of assistants, local music/sports clubs/parent association volunteers. Education is absolutely worth putting a fuck-ton of money into. This isn't like some stupid "scheme" that like 20 people will benefit from, it's for our future.
I don't see this causing too much of a problem. Put a couple of hi-vis patches on their blazers as standard.
Just had a look at what you were talking about with point 1.
What the fuck? Since when has "coloured" been the racist term but "black" been fine and dandy???? When did that happen??
"Coloured" is a far nicer and more accurate term, surely?
alright gramps, calm down
StealthGoblin
Banned
Given the budget cuts that Headteachers are facing, it'll be the TAs etc that will go first.
CRB checks will have to be done for every adult with access to the school. Gone are the days where your mum/dad can come in to do a bit of reading with the class.
I'm not against the principle of it, I just think there'll have to be a fundamental change to what is expected of teachers and the finances of the education budget to achieve it. I'm not in education for the money (my first degree was in Pharmacology) but I think for many teachers, a proposal like this would be the straw that breaks the camels back if a lot of other things aren't changed to accommodate it.
They fuck with the pensions, retirement age, the curriculum, the assessment criteria already, but making serious changes to the working day would likely cause a revolt.
These changes would be better for Secondary education IMO. Increasing the length of the Primary working day would be largely useless because kids are already shattered at 3pm, let alone 5pm. Secondary Education is also more fine tuned for preparing children for their adult life.
There are already a lot of post-school activities that occur on school premises for those that want them. Making it mandatory for every child is too far IMO.
radioheadrule83
Banned
Smarter scheduling would be better... attention span wanes as the day goes on, particularly in boys, so I don't see the point in keeping kids longer - especially for older kids now, who are naturalised to the standard day -- it would need to be phased in imo.
What I would like to see is maybe rather than setting useless homework, sit regular exam-environment style teaching sessions, once every week or so, where the teachers can help kids who are having trouble. The parents aren't fucking doing it, a lot of them don't have the time to stay on top of it and the kids aren't being honest with their parents about it anyway. With the drive-down on class sizes likely to go into reverse because of all this cost-cutting, teaching is more like a seminar, its impossible to accurately track the progress of 30+ pupils... kids need an opportunity to have their own needs met, not to be sent home feeling like nothings gone in and having their free time in youth stolen.
Barely any of my learning at school-age (outside of obvious English / Maths progression) has been applicable to me in the workplace. The hierarchical structure was one of complete subservience rather than one of teamwork, and on a personal level, it impinged on my personality and freedom of expression in ways that I didn't even realise until I left and started to work with people who treated me like a normal, decent adult. Whereas its easy for me to understand the financial rewards and motivation of doing a good job in employment, I felt like a lot of the regimented school timings and mandatory subjects were utterly meaningless -- a feeling cemented when GCSEs ceased being useful upon taking A Levels, and A levels ceased being useful the moment I went to University. College and University didn't teach me all that much about the workplace either, as both environments are chock full of everyone slacking, including the tutors who turn up to earn some fat pay regurgitating the syllabus they delivered to the people before you. School and learning should be something people enjoy, it should make kids feel good about coming out at the end of a day being able to do something they previously couldn't. It shouldn't be this slog where they get the public school bus and sit through 3 hours of shit they're not interested in like Religious Education and whatever economically defunct language that particular school teaches... kids should be able to drop subjects they know they're not interested in earlier than year 10 imo (with obvious exceptions)....
Don't get me wrong, for some kids - forcing them to do a bit of everything allows them to discover interests and start down a path in something they might enjoy -- but I think a great majority of kids come out of all our educational institutions confused as fuck, not knowing what the hell they want to do. I'd rather see more variety in work experience schemes, or see people given the time and space to think about what they'd want to do in life... bombarding them all their young lives and forcing them to 'achieve' in things they have no interest in just seems counter productive to me.
I've spent a good part of this day stuck on a train in the Arun valley (sorry South-Gaf commuters, it was my train that hit a tree, scarred the shit out of me and fucked up the network) so you'll forgive me not being amused at condescension.
But seriously, that makes no sense. As kids in the 90s, we were always told that if you had to refer to race, "coloured" was nicer. Black would do, but it was harsher sounding and less accurate.
But seriously, that makes no sense. As kids in the 90s, we were always told that if you had to refer to race, "coloured" was nicer. Black would do, but it was harsher sounding and less accurate.
I think that, with respect you're ignoring a lot of my points.
The problem of kids being shattered by 3pm is countered by:
a) better diet
b) more stimulating, kinetic activities
c) potential nap time
And I don't think anyone's arguing that nothing else would be changed to accommodate this, obviously if this came through the perceptions of what the state provides in terms of education, and what we owe it as a result would change.
StealthGoblin
Banned
I don't know why, but the idea of getting my class of 31 off to sleep for a nap cracks me up. Wouldn't happen. It would be a complete waste of time. Calming activities such as circle time would be much more beneficial than napping IMO. I'll try and see if there are any recent studies into the matter.
Primary teaching is a much more Kinetic process these days. We regularly have hot seating, drama etc. Kids don't just sit there and get lectured at. I get my kids using measuring cylinders, producing D&T musical instruments, acting out advertisements etc in addition to doing P.E.
I even do this with the kids when they are looking lethargic in the mornings to get them raring to go. Its hilarious and embarrassing, but it works!
Its coming back in in the afternoon a a hectic frenzied crazy lunchtime that shatters them. Its not boredom. They are legitimately tired.
Diet is being tackled in school. I'd imagine you'd be surprised to see the food our school serves at the canteen. All schools should provide such a varied, healthy diet. The kids love it too because we can tie in these meals into learning about culture.
I can't of course speak for every school.
Attitudes like the bolded need to be changed. I'm not some weeaboo saying THE SUPERIROR JAPANESE SCHOOL SYSTEM BEATS OUR BAKA GAIJIN SYSTEM or anything, but napping allows for a bloody huge increase in productivity, as has been shown time and again in studies.
And you sound like a good teacher, but unfortunately not all primary teachers are like yourself.
StealthGoblin
Banned
When I say it wouldn't happen, I was referring to getting my children off to sleep. They'd take the opportunity to bugger around. Given the artistic side of my class, I'm sure many of them would rather draw during that time and frankly that would be a better utilization of the time for my class.
If I was given an hour for nap time, I'd try it - I'd go at it with everything I have (it would give me more planning/marking time) but I just don't think it would work in all cases. When the kids are 5-7 years old I'd imagine it being possible, but 8-11 would be a hard sell.
I'd much rather use the time to get children to express themselves through bringing in a 'special box' with personal items that mean something to them or discuss their ambitions or worries. Not enough of that is done at Primary level.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I got a better idea.
"The school holidays should be lengthened and all children provided with heavily-subsidised alcohol, the better to prepare them for being MPs or Shadow Education Secretaries".
This is just such a bad idea all round. For all that we've heard recently about parental responsibility, what sane person could suggest a good approach is to forcibly keep children away from their families for longer?
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Um, Gora and Gori aren't insults. They literally translate to Caucasian male and Caucasian female. Both words are widely used in the literal context. They are also used in a very whimsy friendly manner too. And of course, if said with spite, like any word said with spite, it can carry a pejorative tone as well.
It would be a shame if you told people that gora and gori are slurs, when that's just not the case and those words are rarely used pejoratively.
I know they're not literally slurs and I thought I'd made that clearer in my post than I actually had. I've only encountered gora in use as a pejorative but then maybe I'm just unlucky. Was I right about gunda? It's been a long time since I was a kid.
lol that was fun. She's my MP! I thought it was cos the school was shit, the real hypocrisy she judged another Labour MP of sending her kid to private school earlier. She should have just shut up.
Salvor.Hardin
Banned
Ha yeah you're right about gunda. Though depending on how its pronounced, it can also mean 'dirty' (pronounced gun-dha) instead of 'hooligan' (pronounced ghund-da).
Translation please?
I thought she judged other Labour MPs for sending their children to selective publicly funded schools. Which is even more hypocritical because what she did was "worse".
)