killer_clank
Member
Honestly, at this point it wouldn't surprise me if he became a Muslim. Probably just him pandering to his supporters though.
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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.
- Thread starter Chinner
- Start date
Honestly, at this point it wouldn't surprise me if he became a Muslim. Probably just him pandering to his supporters though.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
That's why it is quite a sensational story. Second largest swing recorded in UK politics. A freak result, but one that comes at a great time for government as it takes the heat off them with all of the shit they have pedalled over the last week or so.
not really, it's a by-election at a time when mainstream politics aren't in top gear and local issues take over from national talking points.
weird parties always do better at by-elections.
killer_clank
Member
he's on sky news now, talking guff
/and he's lost his voice
/and he's lost his voice
zomgbbqftw
Banned
That's what it will do. It will also get the EdM is a loser narrative back on the agenda given the shock. It's what makes it a bigger story than it should be, if it came with the government in a big poll lead or only slightly behind it wouldn't make much difference, but this will change the narrative leading into the weekend and the Sundays will now look for different stories as the public will have moved on from cash for access and pasties.
killer_clank
Member
god, he's talking like it's 2005. All "New Labour" and Tony Blair. NOTHING about youth unemploymenr or the economy.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Unsurprising really.
Joel Was Right
Member
Explanations for this?
Edit: Ah the Muslim vote
He already has
Edit: Ah the Muslim vote
CHEEZMO™;36480754 said:
He already has
yeah but at least it's better than pasties
it's a by-election
George saying that he didn't target his campaign at muslims.
Just as you can see from the multi-ethnic audience at one of his rallies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCbdAJnLVIU&feature=player_detailpage#t=12s
Just as you can see from the multi-ethnic audience at one of his rallies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCbdAJnLVIU&feature=player_detailpage#t=12s
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Massive ground campaign courting the Muslim vote, anti-war stuff, massive postal vote campaign, rebelling from the young Muslim vote who went against the advice of the elders to vote Labour. EdM chose to go to a pork pie factory instead of campaign...
Joel Was Right
Member
His previous and current wife are Muslim so that may indicate something about his home environment and his personal views on the Islamic faith. It gives him a more legitimate platform to appeal to the Muslim voters than someone who didn't have that link.
Wonder how Imran Hussein feels tonight
killer_clank
Member
Have BBC News reported on this at all?
killer_clank
Member
Ugh, result not till 3. Not staying up that late. Oh well, he's won anyway. Why do counts take so long?
George Galloway wins Bradford West by-election
George Galloway scored a dramatic victory in the Bradford West by-election, securing a 10,000-plus majority in what he called a "massive rejection" of mainstream parties.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9175133/George-Galloway-wins-Bradford-West-by-election.html
George Galloway scored a dramatic victory in the Bradford West by-election, securing a 10,000-plus majority in what he called a "massive rejection" of mainstream parties.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9175133/George-Galloway-wins-Bradford-West-by-election.html
It'll be interesting news to the people of Yorkshire, but most of the country are going to be feeling the impact of Cameron's petrol shitstorm.
killer_clank
Member
Let's just hope he actually bothers to represent his constituents in parliament.
Also, the fuel strikes been called off. What a terrible situation for the Tories, you can do all sorts of crazy stuff and not lose too much popularity, but when it comes to fuel, people get PISSED.
Also, the fuel strikes been called off. What a terrible situation for the Tories, you can do all sorts of crazy stuff and not lose too much popularity, but when it comes to fuel, people get PISSED.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
I wonder if the Respect Party (aka George and friends) decide to expand outwards at the next general election? Could be interesting if they win a few more seats.
Yes, they really, really do.
A friend of mine met Milliband when he was Sec of State for Energy and Climate Change (my friend edits a commercial environmental magazine) and he described Ed as a total fuckwit, he had no clue about the Environment at all, in fact I think he was asked what he thought about Wind Farms and he had to clarify if they fell under his jurisdiction...
As much as personality politics is a slippy slope it's always been a reality, Cameron may be a cunt but he has some degree of charisma, I can't imagine Ed in the US at a state dinner without him looking like a prefect who got lost.
Labour are too far gone though, everything is run by committee, no one strong personality seems to stand out a electable. They tried to get as far away from Blair and his "blairites" as they could (hence Ed over David) but aside from him being a potential war criminal he was their most popular PM in decades.
killer_clank
Member
Part of Ed's problem is that he's just as much of a career politician as some of the Tory front bench is. Just like Cameron doesn't actually have much of a clue about "ordinary families", neither does Ed I suspect.
If the fuel strike has been called off then surely that is good news for the Tories? Unless you're referring to people being angry over having bought lots of fuel that they wouldn't need, but then they'll still be able to use the stuff at a later date anyway.
radioheadrule83
Banned
I don't mind Ed to be honest. His perception is entirely media shaped. They go to him whenever there's a union dispute and ask him to condemn them, which is something he obviously can't do, and he can't exactly side with them either -- so what you get is an awkward robotic response and line about how he'd like negotiations to succeed. They occasionally show him at PMQs having a go, but other than that he doesn't get much exposure and all anyone really sees is this awkward looking guy walking around...
When we get closer to an election, when Brown and co are a distant memory, when people have accrued enough complaints about the present government, his arguments will become of greater media interest - he can be a fairly eloquent guy... plus one reason Labour aren't a force at the moment is that they haven't fully defined a new and cogent manifesto yet. Before we get closer to an election, there's actually no onus for them to create one. They've got time to sit back and read more into the passions of the people, see what's going unaddressed and what's actively pissing people off. That's the perk of being in opposition, it's not you being judged... you let the public judge (as the Conservatives did), and then you weigh in on the side that benefits you. Mark my words, he'll be more popular in a year or two.
I think what I actually actively like about him is that he isn't so great as a media manipulator... his brother David was, he was like a slick PR snake. Same with Blair. Same with Cameron. You can look at Ed and get a good reading of who he really is and tell when he's having to dole out some fluffy bullshit.
People will be wary of slick PR-savvy presidential style PMs soon enough.
When we get closer to an election, when Brown and co are a distant memory, when people have accrued enough complaints about the present government, his arguments will become of greater media interest - he can be a fairly eloquent guy... plus one reason Labour aren't a force at the moment is that they haven't fully defined a new and cogent manifesto yet. Before we get closer to an election, there's actually no onus for them to create one. They've got time to sit back and read more into the passions of the people, see what's going unaddressed and what's actively pissing people off. That's the perk of being in opposition, it's not you being judged... you let the public judge (as the Conservatives did), and then you weigh in on the side that benefits you. Mark my words, he'll be more popular in a year or two.
I think what I actually actively like about him is that he isn't so great as a media manipulator... his brother David was, he was like a slick PR snake. Same with Blair. Same with Cameron. You can look at Ed and get a good reading of who he really is and tell when he's having to dole out some fluffy bullshit.
People will be wary of slick PR-savvy presidential style PMs soon enough.
killer_clank
Member
More that the panic buying shambles didn't have to happen in the first place.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
And yet Brown and Major, who tried to go for a less presidential style, were both hugely unpopular compared to their more dictatorial predecessors. Apparently Tony Blair rarely held proper full cabinet meetings, while Gordon Brown was keen on attempting a more collaborationist, Cabinet-led approach to governing.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Heh, so the last time there was a swing this big it was also won by a seedy guy with dodgy tactics.
Maybe Galloway could have got a bigger margin if he campaigned as disgracefully as Hughes did!
I guess the only good thing about this is that it makes Ed look decidely pathetic. If Boris wins London as well, hopefully the knives will be out.
radioheadrule83
Banned
The parties themselves will still need to be PR-savvy, you do still need to win a media-war... but I think it is possible to field a candidate with the appearance of being 'sincere' and 'normal', and that candidate can be of almost any age.
In a few years - after Blair, Cameron and Clegg, people might be hankering for someone they can trust. If they're plain and boring like Major or bumbling and clumsy like Brown, then you're in trouble no matter how good your character is.
Eloquence is a powerful weapon and that's all that's needed to fight some of these young, fresh faced leaders who can only talk and react with fluff like visiting pasty shops! Put them up against someone with an Obama style eloquence and logic, backed up by a team with a finger closer to the pulse of the nation, and you can make the arguments necessary to put the government in the ejector seat.
Out of the three leaders at the moment, Clegg was the one who seemed to chat the best chat, and had he not went into alliegance with the tories I'm sure he'd be a lot more popular now (I don't think he had any choice personally, constitutionally he did the 'right' thing).
Yeah, Clegg was between a rock and a hard place and did the right thing, it was that or prop up the "loser". Torys have taken advantage of the less savvy Lib Dems though.
Clegg actually has private sector experience as well, in that he was successful in that area.
I like the Presidential style PM's, I think it does matter, they just have to, as you say, have some moral fibre, character and experience of the "real world".
As most people around here will know I'm a big supporter of the Lib Dems.
I agree with people in here, they did the right thing when they joined the coalition and the government's policies are generally better for it.
Unless something really unexpected happens, like Huhne taking over the Lib Dems and then someone with an ounce of integrity takes over Labour, then I'll be rewarding the Liberal Democrats with my vote in 2015.
I agree with people in here, they did the right thing when they joined the coalition and the government's policies are generally better for it.
Unless something really unexpected happens, like Huhne taking over the Lib Dems and then someone with an ounce of integrity takes over Labour, then I'll be rewarding the Liberal Democrats with my vote in 2015.
well it looks like the bradford win barely dented the media in the face of yesterday's fuel rush shitstorm
as for lib dems, i'm kind of conflicted, because i do think they've probably tempered the tories, but at the same time, they are being used by the tories. rather than showing they've got leadership chops they've shown almost the opposite, i think.
as for lib dems, i'm kind of conflicted, because i do think they've probably tempered the tories, but at the same time, they are being used by the tories. rather than showing they've got leadership chops they've shown almost the opposite, i think.
killer_clank
Member
Minority government would have tempered the Tories much more.
also this
radioheadrule83
Banned
The way I see it they didn't have a mandate for leadership anyway. They had a mandate to effect the decision, and they effected it slightly in favour of the slim majority that had won - on the premise that they beleived they could help get the job done.
Ultimately, as much as people (particularly in the North - and I'm a northerner) may gripe, I can imagine that welfare budget cuts and other things would have been much worse under a purely Tory majority.
radioheadrule83
Banned
A minority government would have been subject to fillibustering and cross-aisle sabotage, which wasn't what the country needed at the time. It needed unity and decisions to be taken one way or the other.
I'm not happy with a lot of the decisions that have been taken, but that's certainly what I believe.
i'm not even sure about that. belgium survived for what, 18 months without a government?
i'm not a believer in the idea that what you need in times of crisis is for someone to make strong decisions irrespective of whether they're good or bad. it's now looking like not only have bad tory decisions damaged our short-term prospects, they might also have led to longer term hysteresis effects that have diminished our productive capacity.
i'm not a believer in the idea that what you need in times of crisis is for someone to make strong decisions irrespective of whether they're good or bad. it's now looking like not only have bad tory decisions damaged our short-term prospects, they might also have led to longer term hysteresis effects that have diminished our productive capacity.
killer_clank
Member
But the country wasn't truly decided one way or the other in that election. Minority government would have better reflected that.
Minority government would have been a disaster. We needed someone to lead, remember it was early 2010, if things had gone differently we could have gone the way of Spain or Italy. At least the government showed leadership and gave investors some confidence.
I'd rather have another election over a minority government.
I'd rather have another election over a minority government.
Can someone on GAF do some quick calculations for me?
How much money (on the 2012 budget for 2012-13) is saved for the following people in comparison to today's income tax system.
Someone earning £12k per annum
Someone earning £37k per annum
Someone earning £250k per annum
Just trying to get to grips with how the new budget actually does help the different classes of income.
How much money (on the 2012 budget for 2012-13) is saved for the following people in comparison to today's income tax system.
Someone earning £12k per annum
Someone earning £37k per annum
Someone earning £250k per annum
Just trying to get to grips with how the new budget actually does help the different classes of income.
killer_clank
Member
We may have got leadership out of it, but I can't say it's helped the economy in anyway. It's only ever got worse under this current government.
If they all drunk 5 pints of beer a week, 1 glass of wine a week, and didn't smoke and we take fuel stuff out of it:
17k: £164 better
37k: £164 better
250k: £87 worse off
The bbcs budget calculator suggests that those on 12k & 37k will be £171 better off, whilst the 250k earners will be £80 worse off
I'm confused. How does a 5% tax cut resort to being worse off? Is it based on the assumption that they will be living in £2m+ properties or something?
EDIT: Is there an explanation as to how this calculator works, or what factors it actually considers? Seems very vague.
Yeah, I'd be very interested to see how they calculate the tax rates.
And even more interested to see how the figure would change if it stayed at 50%.