zomgbbqftw
Banned
Wrong. Public spending is up. The problem with this government - they preach austerity and aren't actually cutting spending.
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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.
- Thread starter Chinner
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Wrong. Public spending is up. The problem with this government - they preach austerity and aren't actually cutting spending.
StealthGoblin
Banned
So all of the (effective) trebling of University fees, cutting school sports funds, large cuts to the MOD etc have achieved fuck all?
Great.
We've achieved nothing, I have less money to do my job well, my profession hasn't had a pay-rise for several years (and won't do for another few), my pension contributions are higher and I have to work longer (and probably that will be extended into my 70's as I get older). Good times.
And to think that little imp has yet to fully announce the 'I'm going to flip your desk upside down' plans for the new National Curriculum.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Yup, public spending is way up this year. Bunch of idiots. They couldn't manage a McDonalds at a fat camp in Texas.
Keep banging this drum, hun. Eventually a credible economist might agree that austerity during a recession is a good idea.
Government spending is up because welfare spending is up, because austerity put people out of their jobs and onto the dole. Some people actually predicted this would happen, fwiw.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Actually, fuck it. I can't be arsed.
Unemployments dropping though.....
The largest share of the increase in government spending is on increased welfare payments. Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/aug/21/uk-public-finances-deficit-borrowing
There was a drop in tax receipts too, though. But then, that's kind of what was expected when austerity started. Poor economic performance hits both tax receipts and welfare spending.
StealthGoblin
Banned
I take it either labour are either incompetent at raising these issues to the public at large or are biding their time for a massive 'I told you so'.
This is a quote that has always stuck with me, particularly given that I am a teacher:
Dietrich Bonhoeffer said:
Things seem to only be getting bleaker in that regard. We've let a decade or so of 'boom', 'bust' things for the next few generations. House prices, working salaries, the price of higher education etc all seem to make things very unfavourable for young adults now.
Relative to what a lot of people are facing currently, and what people in the future will face; I have come out of things quite well. I'm in a career I love, I've had the opportunity to graduate from two Universities with two degrees etc, but all of that was in spite of my circumstances. I was just brought up in a prudent family.
For example, during my time at secondary school and 6th form college we did not ever receive lessons about how to be prudent or how to manage a household. These things are surely becoming imperative now. Spiralling debt will help no-one.
One of the most devastating truths of my job is that some of the children I teach and have fun learning from will end up in prison, hopeless situations or won't be able to achieve because they've been held back for a variety of reasons. If more and more obstacles yet placed in their way, I'll have more and more cases of that to look forward to. Finance is a killer.
So where does the government think growth will come from? What sectors will drive the growth?
Psychotext
Member
Because you no longer get counted as unemployed when you're on a mandatory job centre course. How fortuitous.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/aug/22/britannia-unchained-rise-of-new-tory-right
Truly terrifying article about the burgeoning group of neoliberals in the Tory party who really do--despite protestations to the contrary--want to send us careening back to Victorian workhouse conditions.
If these people take power I really will start making plans to emigrate, instead of just using it as a rhetorical device.
[edit]Favourite comment:
Truly terrifying article about the burgeoning group of neoliberals in the Tory party who really do--despite protestations to the contrary--want to send us careening back to Victorian workhouse conditions.
If these people take power I really will start making plans to emigrate, instead of just using it as a rhetorical device.
[edit]Favourite comment:
To where?
The guy is a fucking caricature, even middle of the road Cameron couldn't win a majority against the most demonized Labour leader in decades, a guy like this wouldn't make it to party leader.
I don't even think the Torys will win the next election as it is, let alone if they swing further to the right, so sleep easy my young liberal friend.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/aug/22/britannia-unchained-rise-of-new-tory-right
Truly terrifying article about the burgeoning group of neoliberals in the Tory party who really do--despite protestations to the contrary--want to send us careening back to Victorian workhouse conditions.
If these people take power I really will start making plans to emigrate, instead of just using it as a rhetorical device.
[edit]Favourite comment:
My old MP (I've moved consituencies) was one of these. Guto Bebb his name was, he's a pro-Israel nutcase.
My MP is Hazel Bleares now. Meh.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/aug/22/britannia-unchained-rise-of-new-tory-right
Truly terrifying article about the burgeoning group of neoliberals in the Tory party who really do--despite protestations to the contrary--want to send us careening back to Victorian workhouse conditions.
If these people take power I really will start making plans to emigrate, instead of just using it as a rhetorical device.
[edit]Favourite comment:
Seriously, what drugs are these people on?
dr_octagon
Banned
I remember seeing Priti Patel on Question Time -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es9XrKTTc_4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es9XrKTTc_4
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
I like how she kept saying "burden of proof" for no reason.
She's clueless. If this is the future of the Conservative Party...
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
So GCSE grades down, economy in the shitter, employment not exactly looking rosy (yes yes, those figures that get fucked around with more than the village bicycle), having to borrow more money, cuts cuts cuts.
Hell of a job they've done here, thankfully the Olympic distraction is over so everyone can face the grim reality and maybe get a little angry about it. Oh no wait, X-Factor, the football and Celeb Big Brother are all back. Phew.
Hell of a job they've done here, thankfully the Olympic distraction is over so everyone can face the grim reality and maybe get a little angry about it. Oh no wait, X-Factor, the football and Celeb Big Brother are all back. Phew.
killer_clank
Member
Essentially this government is now failing under their own criteria (MUST.CUT.DEFICIT.AT.ALL.COSTS). Great job Cameron! Keep digging that grave of yours!
The Tories are gonna lose the Corby by election so hard.
The Tories are gonna lose the Corby by election so hard.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
I don't know anything about the A level results but..
http://blog.hargrave.org.uk/2012/08/children-are-collateral-damage-as.html
There's a...theory...going around that examination boards were instructed by the govt. to raise grade boundaries as an excuse to turn lots of schools into academies. That would make it nothing to do with grade inflation, everything to do with that insufferable, unqualified toad Gove foisting his awful policies onto kids.
We'll see how it plays out.
[edit]That, yes.
Psychotext
Member
That's horrible. =/
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
What the fuck... if this is even half true, the depravity of this government knows no bounds.
Please just let this government die Nick.
Personally, I like Clegg. I do. I think people have been too harsh on him, but there's no way back now, he should resign as party leader and either carry on as DPM or go do something in Europe.
Cable or Farron would be a much better option leading into another election.
History will judge Clegg more kindly than the people of today.
Personally, I like Clegg. I do. I think people have been too harsh on him, but there's no way back now, he should resign as party leader and either carry on as DPM or go do something in Europe.
Cable or Farron would be a much better option leading into another election.
History will judge Clegg more kindly than the people of today.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
Bring back Kennedy.
Everyone is already painfully aware of the grim reality, we are all sick and tired of the reality and the media constantly cramming it down our throats until we vomit misery. The olympics were a welcome reprieve it was our best weeks trading ever following one of our worst months ever, customers were happier and everything was better, they finish and the media instantly goes back on to the 'you might as well slit your wrists now' front pages and its gone in the shitter again.
The UK will never recover while there are so many doom merchants running around and revelling in the suffering.
Speedymanic
Banned
Erm, wow. Is this being reported by any of the news outlets? surely Newsnight will be on this or have already covered it?
Damn. We need voting reform so we can get out of this constant cycle of shit government.
And replace them with who? Labour headed up with a man with all the testicles of a kitten or the lib dems who have proved yet again to be outstandingly pathetic.
Psychotext
Member
As expected he's denied any involvement: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-19355959
Though I don't think they specifically asked him about the academies.
Nailed it.
Gaf is like a breeding ground of nihilists but people forget that public sentiment makes a huge difference to the economy and this is the first recession in the new "24/7 news, always connected" media era, Twitter, Facebook, BBC 24... You can spend all day being told your fucked without even having to look, hell people are worrying about things they don't even understand: "god the FTSE is down! not sure what it is though? isn't that foot porn?"...
Of course saying any of this means you are defending the Tories in this thread, just fyi.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Of course I'm aware of the media doom and gloom merchants, covered that myself, they love a fucking rolling report.
It was mainly just getting on my tits all the blind naiveity I was seeing during said games about this country on my social feeds. Youre here on GAF, in a politics thread, you can already consider yourself at least a layer up from most of the meat out there.
But yeah, theres not much to champion either. This government has really fucked a hell of a lot up. Most which is just sailing through with Joe Public pretty blissfully unaware.
It was mainly just getting on my tits all the blind naiveity I was seeing during said games about this country on my social feeds. Youre here on GAF, in a politics thread, you can already consider yourself at least a layer up from most of the meat out there.
But yeah, theres not much to champion either. This government has really fucked a hell of a lot up. Most which is just sailing through with Joe Public pretty blissfully unaware.
... with other parties and continental-style consensus politics.
This 'doom and gloom is causing the recession' nonsense again, really? Doom and gloom isn't costing jobs. A cheery disposition is not going to put money in peoples' pockets.
You might not be supporting the Tories with such asinine claims but you're certainly apologising for their total failure to create anything even remotely resembling a recovery.
You might not be supporting the Tories with such asinine claims but you're certainly apologising for their total failure to create anything even remotely resembling a recovery.
I can find the silver lining on a mushroom cloud, and in this instance I just like to remind myself that the Tories are fucking themselves out of the next election with the verve and gusto usually reserved for Gianna Michaels porn scenes.
Some fear they will stay in power and shift further to the right, those people were on Mars at the last election when they couldn't even win a majority against a Scottish guy who sits in the dark all day eating White Bread.
Some fear they will stay in power and shift further to the right, those people were on Mars at the last election when they couldn't even win a majority against a Scottish guy who sits in the dark all day eating White Bread.
Quote me saying that.
It is not helping, can you make the leap to grasp that concept? I know you want this thread to be an anti Tory circle jerk, I remember you quitting it in a huff when the media didn't match your rhetoric as well, but you can't ignore the affect this has on the real economy, the people going out and spending the money they do have on what they want.
The gov't are shit yes, they need a plan for growth, but thing's can still improve even slightly in spite of their fuck ups.
The only hope from all of this is that the Tories have made their brand completely and utterly toxic, and so utterly discredited neoliberal economic policy, that the political spectrum swings significantly to the left again before too long.
I'm not keeping my fingers crossed too tightly, though.
'Quitting in a huff when the media didn't support my rhetoric'? Uhh, I vowed off the thread before because it was crawling with people who were convinced that austerity was working and that we'd be out of recession at the beginning of the year, and I spent the entire time arguing with them. I'm sure I don't need to remind you who's won money on that horse.
I don't deny that people being negative has an effect on the economy. I do have a problem with people saying things like 'we'll never recover as long as we're all so negative about it'. All the positive thinking in the world isn't going to put money in peoples' pockets. And once you start shifting the discussion to people not being happy enough about their situation, you're basically telling people to deal with being shafted.
A Pakistani friend of mine the other day asked me why the British aren't in the streets protesting at how badly we are getting fucked over by this government. I wonder why myself, too.
I can only comment from my perspective-
good news on the front pages = business up.
bad news on the front pages = business down.
Much more down and we are done for and 30 more people join the unemployed numbers. If it wasn't for the fantastic trade we did the first week and a half of august then I would be pretty certain that I would have been redundant by winter.
The media reporting a bad financial time is like poking a cancer patient every hour and saying 'hey! you have cancer', he already fucking knows and you aren't helping make things better.
I don't even care that I am the thread's resident mental socialist and you don't take me seriously, to be honest. I have a lot of fun typing my posts. I'm sorry about any offence that I might cause, though. I know that I can get a bit heated about some of this stuff.
And you need to get off your high horse about guessing right. First rule of economics: no one knows.
Leaving a thread because not everyone agree's with you then charging back in to gloat is hardly commendable.
How dramatic, it's probably because we still enjoy a quality of life far beyond most of the world. As bad as the Torys are this isn't the Third Reich.
Pretty accurate.
I like most of your posts, no offence caused, we are just disagreeing on one thing, doesn't mean we all have to hate each other
Erm, austerity during depression being bad is just Econ 101. Pro-austerity is an absolute fringe position among economists (at least, so I am told by my economist friends). Cameron and Osborne know this because they were taught it during their time at Oxford as PPE students.
A quality of life that has come under sustained attack since the Tories took over.
They can attack all they like, we are British and have survived far far worse and we still go for a pint after work on a Friday. This isn't America where everyone wants to be a Millionaire, we have lower expectations by and large.
They take away my beer and gaming money and I will be right beside you when we march on Westminster
Edit: it says a lot about the power of the avatar that I feel like I am debating with Jake Gyllenhaal.
They take away my beer and gaming money and I will be right beside you when we march on Westminster
Edit: it says a lot about the power of the avatar that I feel like I am debating with Jake Gyllenhaal.
So is accusing people who disagree with you of being nihilists the new thing on GAF cause I've seen this in a few threads now.
No, pointing out some people on Gaf are not happy unless everyone is miserable too might be though.
blahblah...blah
Member
I disagree with a lot of what godelsmetric says, but this...
...is absolutely spot on. Unfortunately, because this topic is so political, the pro-austerity view is not as 'fringe' as it ought to be, but still, the economic theory and evidence on this is clear.
...is absolutely spot on. Unfortunately, because this topic is so political, the pro-austerity view is not as 'fringe' as it ought to be, but still, the economic theory and evidence on this is clear.
louis89
Member
Eh. Britain's economy would probably be growing if it wasn't for the Eurozone crisis. Osborne's plan is getting fucked by external factors, not because of inherent flaws in the plan itself. Every economist and neutral third party organisation (IMF etc.) in the universe endorsed his plan. But nobody predicted how long the debt crisis would drag on.
You can make an argument for the plan needing to be changed now that we see the situation we find ourselves in. Be angry about that, fine. But at least acknowledge that external factors outside of the government's control are having a massive effect on our economy.
You can make an argument for the plan needing to be changed now that we see the situation we find ourselves in. Be angry about that, fine. But at least acknowledge that external factors outside of the government's control are having a massive effect on our economy.
"people forget that public sentiment makes a huge difference to the economy"
You seem to forget that only a few months ago public confidence in the economy was registered as high... except it didn't make a lick of difference.
There was a large amount of coverage as it showed that public sentiment wasn't affecting the economy and it was actually down to quantitative resources rather than qualitative measures.