kurtrussell
Banned
Well aren't we lucky that you turned up to turn it all into the Morning Star then?
I can generalise too! It's fun!
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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.
- Thread starter Chinner
- Start date
Well aren't we lucky that you turned up to turn it all into the Morning Star then?
I can generalise too! It's fun!
heliconsoul
Member
Fine, how about addressing the rest?
kurtrussell
Banned
I thought I'd more or less already addressed it? I am of the opinion that the state has a responsibility to support those out of work, but not to provide luxury items. IMHO it is ridiculous to suggest that anybody has an entitlement to be provided with tobacco in order to provide a decent standard of living. If you are unemployed, quit smoking. Simples.
Incontinentia Buttocks
Banned
Even prisoners get baccy, mane.
PJV3
Member
Yes, your perception on life is simples. You're talking about punishing people.
heliconsoul
Member
So basically your saying once you become unemployed, be it no fault of your own or not, you deserve nothing except the very basics to survive?
I mean I don't personally think we should be air dropping crates of Stella to the unemployed but by heck your all heart.
I mean I don't personally think we should be air dropping crates of Stella to the unemployed but by heck your all heart.
I haven't seen anyone suggesting that the unemployed should be provided with tobacco. They should be provided with an amount of money, and then be allowed to spend that in line with what they judge to be their priorities and needs.
Just because you haven't identified tobacco or Sky TV as a priority in your life, it doesn't allow you to then extended that judgement to society as a whole.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
As I thought, you are the person who complained about this:
Ah, that is not all!
Why is it now that you want to tell people what is best for them?
CyclopsRock
Member
I don't really think the problem is what people spend money on. I think the problem is that for people with few skills, the marginal rate of tax from getting a job at the low end of the spectrum is so high that benefits DO become a way of life. This leads people to prioritising things they care about,be it tobacco or alcohol or telly - because it stops being a stop gap between work and starts being 'the rest of their life'. This compounds itself because it does nothing to earn the person skills, and the larger the black hole on their CV becomes, the harder it'll be to find a job if they later get an incentive to do so.
It's a symptom of a problem, really, not a problem itself.
It's a symptom of a problem, really, not a problem itself.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
I... agree with you. When job prospects are so bleak (for the low skilled), it is difficult to blame them either.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
In other news Alex Salmond received a massive blow from the Electoral Commission today when they said his proposed question was biased and unacceptable. He proposed "Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent nation? Yes/No." The commission said having the word agree in there is not right and they proposed "Should Scotland be an independent country? Yes / No."
All parties accepted the outcome and the referendum will adopt the new question. Pollsters have found that the former question boosts independence by up to 10%.
All parties accepted the outcome and the referendum will adopt the new question. Pollsters have found that the former question boosts independence by up to 10%.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Next you'll be telling us that you're a descendant of Oliver Cromwell!
It's the right decision really. The original question was ridiculously leading.
The spending caps are a good thing too, although I think Salmond wanted half the amount that's been agreed?
CyclopsRock
Member
Absolutely, it's the fault of the system. I don't even think it is that benefits are too high or too low, it is that the difference between benefits and a low skilled wage is so small. You could get rid of that in a few ways, none of which are particularly palatable because they all harm someone.
A) lower benefits to increase the differential. But they already offer a fairly grim way of life so thisll harm people.
B) increase wages. This isn't something the government can practically do in a climate like this (or, if you ask me, many climates at all) but the EU offering an unlimited labour pool does dampen wages.
C) ease off the fall off so that for every pound you earn, you only lose half the benefit you currently would. This is basically the solution being put into place by IDS ATM and its the one I support. But it will cost more in the short term. But, tbh, itll make its money back in the he future and at any rate, its about saving lives more than money IMO. A life on the dole and kids growing up in households where no one has worked their whole life is damaging in more than just a financial way.
PJV3
Member
Weird how such a little thing, could make such a difference.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
The word "agree" makes it seem as if there is already a consensus for independence and people usually don't like to go against the consensus.
Join me in the middle, between the far right mentalists and the bleeding heart socialists that make up 90% of the posts here.
heliconsoul
Member
The first question was so leading it was unreal. Needed a "nudge, wink" after it.
Jill Sandwich
the turds of Optimus Prime
There's nowt wrong with Tesco Value stuff, half the stuff I buy is the cheapo brand because it tastes the same as pricier products.
PJV3
Member
Yeah. It's just I would be thinking about the practicality of independence, then make my decision. Different folks, different strokes I suppose.
CyclopsRock
Member
I wanna take a photo of the Spanish guy serving me in Pret right now. His sideburns are outrageous.
PJV3
Member
Well if you end up on benefits, I will force you to eat out of dustbins.
I'm flexible.
Jill Sandwich
the turds of Optimus Prime
I'll force your head up my bum and pump!
after spending some time in denmark recently, where even an entry level waiter job will earn you the equivalent of a skilled professional wage in this country, it's very hard to reason that we're doing it right and they are doing it wrong. the effect of this relatively uncompetitive fiscal environment is tangible in just about every human interaction you make - a nebulous sense of courtesy and being excellent to one another. i almost felt like my cynical english presence was poisoning the well.
maybe you need to be earning more than £80k to really understand these compromises, but no dane i spoke to seemed to lament them; including an engineer who could be earning twice as much living somewhere else.
maybe you need to be earning more than £80k to really understand these compromises, but no dane i spoke to seemed to lament them; including an engineer who could be earning twice as much living somewhere else.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
I made mention of an increase in wages earlier, but I completely agree with this. However, excuse my ignorance, but did tax credits not function in a similar way as a means of easing people into work from benefits? Or, at least, were intended to do so.
Jill Sandwich
the turds of Optimus Prime
My friend was scooped up by a Danish girl and now lives over there. The tax is high but you can certainly see where the money goes. The public transport is incredible and it's weirdly clean, and there are scores of cyclists with proper cycle paths. When he comes to visit he's loaded!
PJV3
Member
That's not allowed, I'm running things. And it sounds like a health and safety issue.
CyclopsRock
Member
I think their economy is a result of their culture, not the other way around alas.
vcassano1 said:
They were intended to yup, the littany of small benefits one can get, all with different cut offs and different payment schedules make the whole thing an absolute mess. I really do think that the new system will help out a lot here, but there have been quite a few investigations into the horrible drop off. There are certain circumstances - quite limited, admittedly - where getting a minimum wage job nets you less money than not doing so. Much more common, though, are rates as high as 70-80% as an effective tax rate (which is to say, you only earn ~20% more after working 38 hours a week than you would have if you just hadn't bothered).
Cameron tells SNP MP to 'fuck off' under his breath : https://twitter.com/Herring1967/status/296614868717543424
not bad for a country which arrived so late to the enlightenment party.
PJV3
Member
ha. Was he having one of his Red faced days?
I Can't think of a PM who has lost his cool as often in the House.
At what point does a business become 'domestic' and is no longer considered an outsider? Amazon employ tens of thousands of people in the UK (and provides a path for thousands of small businesses to sell their goods online through them). Just because they were not founded in the UK, doesn't make these businesses any less important to the British economy to go around limiting how much people can spend there. The whole notion of controlling where people can spend their benefits is, thankfully, too uneasy to be implemented. The whole 'image of the jobless' is so out of whack, no-one is living a life of luxury.
CyclopsRock
Member
I suspect that might actually be partly why. In the same way our railway and london's underground is all fucked up because we didn't know what we were doing, being the first to do it.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Again, not practicable. Also, I already said that I didn't want to limit social security spending...
QuicheFontaine
Member
This is pretty hilarious
Little Old Man
Member
Exactly. Where exactly do you draw the line on this- what benefits have these limits placed on them? What goods exactly can be purchased? It would itself need a whole system in place to manage, which to me would be horribly inefficient by wasting taxpayers money on creating and administering it (never mind inefficient from the point of view of individual consumers). Such money could be better invested in the individuals out of work through the usual means of improving their employability.
Re Cameron swearing- is there a short delay on BBC feeds from the HOC to explain the lack of sound on that bit? Did the House go mental afterwards?
I can't hear anything. There's a bit at the end where his mic goes dead but he looks like he's still talking "normally". Is it a joke?
zomgbbqftw
Banned
I think he mouthed it.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
The campaign against the poor and vulnerable continues. Be interesting to see the suicide figures a couple of years from now.
Being unemployed and in near-poverty isn't enough, you're not allowed to spend money on things that give you a slight bit off enjoyment in your miserable life.
The worst part of things like this is how much of a success turning the poor against each other has been. That biscuit joke was right on the fuckin money.
Being unemployed and in near-poverty isn't enough, you're not allowed to spend money on things that give you a slight bit off enjoyment in your miserable life.
The worst part of things like this is how much of a success turning the poor against each other has been. That biscuit joke was right on the fuckin money.
Incontinentia Buttocks
Banned
CHEEZMO;47080428 said:
Biscuit joke?
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
A rich man, a poor man, and a poorer man have a packet of biscuits. The rich man takes 18 biscuits and gives the poor man 1 and a half biscuits and the poorer man half a biscuit. The rich man leans over to the poor man and whispers in his ear "Look out, mate - that guy's trying to steal your biscuit".
heliconsoul
Member
CHEEZMO;47080617 said:
Nail, meet head. Talk about succinct.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
Most likely. Government doing their best to trick people into getting their JSA sanctioned and the ATOS shit trying to force the disabled into work and off the benefits that keep them alive. Missed an appointment you didn't know about because the work programme your on is effectively a money-making scam for the people who run it? Tough shit, guess you're gonna have no money for the next 6 months hope you don't starve to death kthxbai.
All in this together.
PJV3
Member
Give a man half a Hob-nob and he can eat for a day. Give him the recipe and err, I'm losing it.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
Take all of a mans Hob Nobs and he'll be so scared of dying in the street that he'll be incentivised to become an entrepeneur and start up his own small business biscuit factory with a loan from his parents because everyone's mumsykins has several thousand pounds just lying around, surely.