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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.
- Thread starter Chinner
- Start date
WayneMorse
Banned
Human Rights Act and EU's environment regulations have been good things for Britain.
WayneMorse
Banned
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/08/opinion/londons-laundry-business.html?hp&rref=opinion
I think it's safe to say Dave, Gideon and Boris have turned the UK into another satellite state of Russia.
I think it's safe to say Dave, Gideon and Boris have turned the UK into another satellite state of Russia.
Nicktendo86
Member
What a complete load of horse shit. Article was a nonsense ramble of conjecture and opinion (well, it was an opinion piece after all) without any facts or figures.
London is the biggest city in the world and a hub of international business, what else do they expect?
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
Also, how does not sanctioning Russia equate to betraying the United States? We are already subservient to the USA, why shouldn't we try and get what we can from elsewhere?
Russia is clearly a dangerous country that is doing some bad things, but is it really our business to try and stop them? I am always uncertain on these kind of questions. The bigger problem is that London is becoming a place for the rich only: we need to solve internal problems of social mobility before worrying about affairs in Crimea.
Russia is clearly a dangerous country that is doing some bad things, but is it really our business to try and stop them? I am always uncertain on these kind of questions. The bigger problem is that London is becoming a place for the rich only: we need to solve internal problems of social mobility before worrying about affairs in Crimea.
Eh, it has some truth in it.
Nicktendo86
Member
Huge heart attack apparently. Well that's that, sad news to his family, a warning to stay healthy to the rest of us. 52 is no age.
PJV3
Member
Fought hard for his union members, he did his job.
WayneMorse
Banned
RIP Bob Crow, didn't always agree with him but we always need strong advocates for the working class in politics today.
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-26531807
Awful day, and now we're one step closer to the end of the NHS..
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-26531807
Awful day, and now we're one step closer to the end of the NHS..
CyclopsRock
Member
Those are sine big shoes to fill, I think everyone can agree at least on that.
Nicktendo86
Member
I really don't believe for a second that the NHS will end. It needs reform and to adapt to the 21st century, we are seriously lagging behind other countries in many areas, especially cancer detection, and to simply stay the course throwing money at it will not make things any better. This hysteria that the Tories will destroy the NHS is baffling to me.
WayneMorse
Banned
Of course I was being hyperbolic, but do you not see anything wrong by putting a hospital's profitability over the quality of healthcare that's given?
zomgbbqftw
Banned
I didn't agree with Bob Crow's methods or goals but one can't deny that he was an absolutely brilliant union leader and got a great deal for RMT members. The RMT is the only union to have seen mber growth in the last 5 years because of his ruthless leadership on getting his members such a great deal.
Most places/services in the NHS are being given next to impossible performance targets to achieve, basically setting them up for failure. Why would the government do that other than to open up services to the private sector on a value for money justification? All that'll happen in that case is the private sector will cherry pick the profitable services and still leave what's left of the NHS at the time with an even bigger burden.
CyclopsRock
Member
Why would that leave them with a bigger burden? That argument made sense with Royal Mail when they were opened up to competition whilst still being forced to offer a universal postage system but that's because they charged for all their services. Why would the NHS be worse off if the more 'profitable' elements were spun off?
incidentally there are some great examples of serious medical procedures that have seen their prices go down dramatically due to competition in the private sector.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Because the NHS is forced to treat everyone regardless of the cost while private companies have no obligation to provide universal service and can decline expensive or unprofitable procedures or services.
The only way private companies should be let into NHS provisioning is to put them onto the same level as the NHS. Everything or nothing. Private companies should not be allowed to have their cake and eat it as it leaves the taxpayer with a huge burden under current rules.
What's really stupid is that even as the reforms are the cost of healthcare will come down, but the quality of service for uncomplicated procedures will become significantly worse as the NHS struggles to budget for them without the huge income generated from the complex ones.
Public services are exactly that, and government is not a business. Yes there are parts of it that can be made more efficient, the whole of the public advisory body (quangos) should be shit canned and there are far too many middle managers in public corporations like Network Rail as well as massive duplication of services between departments. However, actual real services like the NHS do not exist to make money and they are a net drain on resources, it will never be a productive (in an absolute sense) sector, trying to force the rules of business on it will just make it worse for everyone who relies on it. That's not to say there is endless money and we should treat it as if it were a piece of string, but forcing it to act like a business when it is not will lead to lesser quality services pretty much across the board.
If the government are really interested in saving money on healthcare they should have a look at the cost of drug procurement, it is far too costly and the last government made a bunch of stupid reforms that allowed drug companies to remove caps on drug costs to the NHS. This government are no better and have kowtowed to drug companies in the same way by listening to alarmist crap about warfarin and trialling an anti-coagulant that is almost 100x more expensive per dose.
anonymous_abc
Member
milibean backpeddling on referendum
no surprise there.
Anyway it seems more than obvious that brussels will want/need more powers (soon).
Everyone agrees that the EU, especialy the EUro cannot go on as it has and needs more growing together in order to move forward and protect the euro from its current ails.
no surprise there.
Anyway it seems more than obvious that brussels will want/need more powers (soon).
Everyone agrees that the EU, especialy the EUro cannot go on as it has and needs more growing together in order to move forward and protect the euro from its current ails.
CyclopsRock
Member
I'm confused about how 'huge income' is generated by the more complicated procedures. Obviously the NHS gets funded for all their ops and services from the central government, and they'll get more for ones that cost more to perform, but surely all operations etc are funded at their actual cost level. For the NHS, none of them are going to be worth more money then others (and like you say, in financial terms it'll only ever be a drain) so is the only problem here one of budgetary process? One had to imagine that's a problem we could overcome. Drug procurement would be a great place to start though, and I'd like nothing more then to see the private sector fail to offer a better value service.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
That's not the way it works. Blair's original NHS reforms moved away from the cost basis model to an internal market model whereby trusts would be paid a provision against which they would carry out the service. Any savings within that provision could then be recycled into other services. Complex and lifesaving procedures/services carry a high provision and mundane broken bones do not.
There's a lot of blame to go around for the current issues facing the NHS. The internal market, PFI, cherry picking by private healthcare providers. All of these things have made the NHS poorer and perform more poorly. An easy fix would be to put the NHS and private providers on a level playing field, but Lansley designed the bill so that can't happen (Lansley's wife also happens to sit on the board of a private healthcare company). Really though, we are in this position after 20 years of tinkering and fucking about trying this model or that model, when really people just need healthcare.
In other news Ed Miliband has poked the EU nest by saying he would have an EU referendum, but then also saying he would not have one about a minute later. I don't understand why he made this intervention. Should have let the Tories tear themselves apart. Now they will all speak with one voice "only we can offer an in/out referendum" regardless of what the machinations really are. It allows the Tories to paper over their EU cracks and present a united front for the first time since Dave's veto over the fiskalpact.
Nicktendo86
Member
Yeah that thing about Lansley's wife stinks, I dunno there are no easy answers for NHS reform but you are dead right about the constant tinkering, we need a long term plan for the future but politicians never like to think long term...
As for Milliband, I have no idea what he is doing. I don't think he does either.
As for Milliband, I have no idea what he is doing. I don't think he does either.
WayneMorse
Banned
He's just keeping all of his big policies secret until the manifesto comes out.
I don't think he has any idea at all really, don't really rate too much of his front bench either.
As a separate question do the voters of the UK really care about eu membership , say as much as the nhs jobs the economy etc etc. Now as someone from the Republic of Ireland living in Northern Ireland where a lot of politics revolves around bits of fabric flying from government buildings etc, do the general public really think about it or is ukip doing a great job getting people thinking about it.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
How does one keep that which does not exist a secret...
misdirection
CyclopsRock
Member
Literally on the same day, the Tories put a little infographic on Twitter about how the Lib Dems and Labour won't give you a referendum, and UKIP can't.
UtterlyPerplexed
Member
Damn. What a week for the Left.
One of the last remaining relevant political giants of the second half of the last century who was strongly led by conviction, ardently sought to push for the vision he believed to be true - even if that kind of party democratic socialism was deemed Trotskyite and a huge electoral liability to Labour in the early 1980s - and a man who in his earlier days even fought to renounce his inherited peerage.
RIP.
One of the last remaining relevant political giants of the second half of the last century who was strongly led by conviction, ardently sought to push for the vision he believed to be true - even if that kind of party democratic socialism was deemed Trotskyite and a huge electoral liability to Labour in the early 1980s - and a man who in his earlier days even fought to renounce his inherited peerage.
RIP.
PJV3
Member
Totally gutted, I don't know what to say.
It isn't often I get a tear in my eye over this sort of thing.
Fattony12000
Member
zomgbbqftw
Banned
RIP Tony Benn. A man of the people and with principles. Something that is incredibly rare in modern politics.
PJV3
Member
'I have put up several plaquesquite illegally, without permission; I screwed them up myself. One was in the broom cupboard to commemorate Emily Wilding Davison, and another celebrated the people who fought for democracy and those who run the House. If one walks around this place, one sees statues of people, not one of whom believed in democracy, votes for women or anything else. We have to be sure that we are a workshop and not a museum.'
WayneMorse
Banned
Fuck, what an awful week.
Even if you don't agree with his views you have to admit that he had more integrity and conviction than any politician post-1945.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Tony Benn. My favourite politician and a wonderful role model. You are already missed.
Nicktendo86
Member
Will have to dig out his appearance on Ali G.
WayneMorse
Banned
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/16/george-osborne-garden-city-ebbsfleet-budget
Good job Gideon, but I have to agree with the comments section on the Guardian and wonder whether or not him and Dave are actually human. at least Miliband and Balls don't seem like cheap Blair knockoffs.
Good job Gideon, but I have to agree with the comments section on the Guardian and wonder whether or not him and Dave are actually human. at least Miliband and Balls don't seem like cheap Blair knockoffs.
The comments section is hilarious. The government could personally give them each a million pounds and they'd still complain.
Nicktendo86
Member
You're right, Milliband and Balls are far, far worse.
Nicktendo86
Member
Early April fools? Fucking terrible. Stop trying to make our money look like Euros!
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