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UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
Who are Labour trying to please with this policy?

Welfare reform, as vague a concept as that is, remains overwhelmingly popular with voters. Being seen to be tough on benefits IS popular (A Yougov poll on this is mentioned here). I think it is just posturing, though, because it is dumb as fuck. They shouldn't be playing into these stupid prejudices about social security.
 
Just caught up with this morning's announcement's from Ed. Means testing JSA for 18-21 age group seems stupid. It will cost more than it saves and it will push the "them vs us" agenda further among young people and workers who are already subject to a lower minimum wage.

Above all else, they need to make work pay for young people currently on the dole while also making sure they have the skills to come into the work place.

My current workplace has cancelled its school leaver programme because of the poor quality of candidates and lack of enthusiasm for it from school leavers. We now recruit pretty much from the industry or via the graduate programme with a few exceptions of personal brilliance (we had a would be analyst who emailed his own analysis of a high profile company, it was highly detailed and he showed great foresight so my manager and I decided to give him a chance, he previously worked in Starbucks and had no industry experience or specific qualifications in finance, maths or a related subject).

What the government, Labour or Tory, needs to work on is basic maths, English and deduction. We have a generation of kids who don't know how to think big, they don't know how a decision made in one part of a business will effect the rest of it. Teaching people how to deduce an answer from a bunch of variables is not easy, but it is a skill that is completely lacking in the next generation. Schools are too obsessed with teaching to the test, and tests have become an exercise of who has the best memory, which helps no one.

The whole schools system needs to be geared towards understanding, deduction, reasoning and thinking critically rather than facts, "creativity" and rote-learning for tests. I was lucky that my school taught all of the former. Means testing and removal of benefits for a generation of kids that has been completely let down by the schools system just seems idiotic. More practical apprenticeships (not in management or whatever they call them these days), attendance based support, technical schools and partnerships with businesses to take on apprenticeship leavers for a set amount of time so they can gain work experience with no obligation to keep them on (giving people an incentive to impress and work hard in that time and get into the habit of doing good work).

The German and Swiss model should be the one we aim for, but both parties seem more interested in talking about reform rather than implementing it. There is no doubt that businesses would resist a slightly more rigid labour market based on hard apprentice qualifications because it would lock out immigrants from a lot of the labour market, pushing up wages, but it would ensure significantly lower youth unemployment. In Switzerland there is an apprenticeship for literally everything (seriously, being a sales assistant usually requires one) but it means that young people who are not academically inclined or do not have any technical ability will still have a good chance of getting a job if they work hard in apprentice school and then in their final placement. Over here kids like that are left on the scrapheap of unemployment and then cajoled into working for £2.50/h for a few months and then thrown back onto the scrapheap.

We need all new thinking when it comes to youth unemployment, tinkering around the edges with the current system won't make much difference to our high youth unemployment rate.
 

Bleepey

Member
Just caught up with this morning's announcement's from Ed. Means testing JSA for 18-21 age group seems stupid. It will cost more than it saves and it will push the "them vs us" agenda further among young people and workers who are already subject to a lower minimum wage.

Above all else, they need to make work pay for young people currently on the dole while also making sure they have the skills to come into the work place.

My current workplace has cancelled its school leaver programme because of the poor quality of candidates and lack of enthusiasm for it from school leavers. We now recruit pretty much from the industry or via the graduate programme with a few exceptions of personal brilliance (we had a would be analyst who emailed his own analysis of a high profile company, it was highly detailed and he showed great foresight so my manager and I decided to give him a chance, he previously worked in Starbucks and had no industry experience or specific qualifications in finance, maths or a related subject).

Wow. I recall you said a long time ago you only bothered to high people who got first. Do you mind me asking what else this guy did that made him so special?
 
Wow. I recall you said a long time ago you only bothered to high people who got first. Do you mind me asking what else this guy did that made him so special?

A 14 page self-researched write up on why a high profile company is below our current investment rating. From someone with no formal experience in banking or finance. It all made sense as well. At 19 years old. Not giving him a shot would have been wrong. Also, we are pretty sure he sent the report to loads of our competitors as well so he would have got a job elsewhere in the City if we didn't act quickly. Plus it takes balls to do what he did, so that had to be respected as well.
 

Walshicus

Member
Labour pledges to curb welfare entitlements



This just seems bonkers to me. And it isn't a party-political point at all. Just all this crap about forcing people through more and more "education" (look, it may be education for you and me, but it is more like prison for some people - one of my daughters for example).

So what are you going to do with someone who left school at 16, had a steady job for a few years and then redundant? No jobseekers?

What about people home schooled?

What about all the many people who are perfectly sane, sensible, articulate and keen to work but bloody hated school?

What next - no jobseekers unless you have a degree?

Stupid.

All it will do eventually is to deny jobseekers allowance to exactly the people who need it most.

Another problem that would be solved by us implementing the Guaranteed Universal Income.
 
Who hacks the Labour Press Office Twitter to post about Owls? I'm calling bullshit. Either a rogue app on their Twitter OR someone fucked up and they're lying
 

8bit

Knows the Score
Who hacks the Labour Press Office Twitter to post about Owls? I'm calling bullshit. Either a rogue app on their Twitter OR someone fucked up and they're lying

"Fuck, Ed's new hate the young policy is going down like a lead balloon. Unleash the fucking owl tweet!"

malcolmtucker.jpg

--

Edit, let me find the tweet. It did have a spamming link in it.


--

Editagain. Try accessing that url in the pic. It seems to be a spam factory.
 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Back from Holiday in Exmoore :)
Read this gem in the Telegraph on the ferry yesterday.
lol


All this stuff about "training" is an absolute bane of corporate life these days, and it seems to be seeping (or to have sept) into political and educational life as well.

The theory, such as it is, goes like this:

(a) something has gone wrong
(b) all of our policies are OK, so it must be somebody's fault
(c) so we will finger X (a junior) for it
(d) and we will tell our customer that we have changed our procedures (even though we didn't have any procedures for this in the first place)
(e) and we might even sack X
(f) and we will talk about training every junior at X's level and below to not do it again
(g) but we won't get around to actually doing that because it is too hard or too expensive
(h) so next time it happens we will finger another junior and do the same thing

The practice, such as it should be, goes like this:

(a) we fucked up
(b) can't blame X because we left him to his own devices, gave him no guidance and he did what he thought was best
(c) so we should either sack the manager responsible or sharpen up our management procedures
(d) let's sharpen up our management procedures then - or even just let it go and admit that sometimes people make mistakes huh? That's a good idea, because what management procedures have we got anyway?
 

Bleepey

Member
A 14 page self-researched write up on why a high profile company is below our current investment rating. From someone with no formal experience in banking or finance. It all made sense as well. At 19 years old. Not giving him a shot would have been wrong. Also, we are pretty sure he sent the report to loads of our competitors as well so he would have got a job elsewhere in the City if we didn't act quickly. Plus it takes balls to do what he did, so that had to be respected as well.

Wow that sounds impressive. I am sure he probably had help from someone but that shit takes balls. I sent out cover letters to random professors and I got a paid internship that allowed me to pay for masters without taking out a loan. Did he at least have A Levels in business studies or economics?
 

f0rk

Member
Hope this HS3 actually happens, Leeds to Manchester is pretty shitty at the moment. Really it seems like they are doing it the wrong way around, this sounds like the smaller project.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/23/tony-blair-middle-east-envoy-quartet-sacked

Wait, Blair is still a Middle East "peace envoy?" What kind of cruel world do we live in?

He has been for ages. I have genuinely no idea what that role entails (and, therefore, why anyone else would necessarily be better. If we're going to get rid of him, what's the point of replacing him with someone else).

In other news, Miliband is getting pounded from all over eh. They even had to wheel out Kinnock to oppose the charge that Miliband was turning into Kinnock.
 

8bit

Knows the Score
How on earth did Rebekah Brooks not get sent to gaol??

Just in case there's any doubt about who is in charge of the UK,

Bp8MuvrIQAEZ7yq.png:large


Bp8MufOIIAAAPRD.png:large


Bp74h2UCUAEO6IK.png


(Not any of these guys, clearly.)

.
 

kmag

Member
It's not so much Rebekah Brooks, it's Charlie Brooks, he effing admitted on the stand disposing of the laptop. Oh but it just had porn on it, isn't really a defense.
 
Not really directly related to uk poligaf but goddamnit I am not a fan of the French air traffic controllers right now. I'm trying to help my girlfriend move back from Spain to the UK but, thanks to them, I can't. She doesn't even live in France!
 

Maledict

Member
Ed Milliband must be the most un-photogenic person on earth. I have yet to see a single picture of him, even in the left wing press, where he doesn't look like some sort of slightly insane wax robot mimicking human life.

I know it's shallow, but I do feel for the guy - he just looks totally and utterly incapable of being prime minister. .
 

Walshicus

Member
Ed Milliband must be the most un-photogenic person on earth. I have yet to see a single picture of him, even in the left wing press, where he doesn't look like some sort of slightly insane wax robot mimicking human life.

I know it's shallow, but I do feel for the guy - he just looks totally and utterly incapable of being prime minister. .

How many people who "look capable of being prime minister" actually end up being so? Do you enjoy us being stuck in a perpetual loop of slick, slimy PR men being elected because they photograph well?
 

Maledict

Member
Because Major and Brown were slick PR men...

My comment was a (shallow) personal opinion about the fact the guy cannot catch a break, and like it or not the ability to not appear freaking wierd in every photo ever taken will matter in an election. It's not a modern thing either - people have always formed opinions and voted on trivial stuff like that.

Personally I don't think he should be leader, or PM, because he is staggeringly out of touch with the base of his party, seems incapable of fielding an effective ground game going into an election, and has yet to spell out a convincing vision for a natural left leaning voter like myself to actually come out and vote for him. For every good policy (nationalise railways), he follows it with either caveats with take the oomph out of it, or a counter policy that seems like he's gasping for the Essex vote (recent benefit fiasco). I also think that whilst Balls remains on the front bench, I'll find it incredibly hard to vote for labour simply because of the damage he caused during the last 10+ years and the way he acts in politics.

Recently they had to wheel Kinnock out to defend Ed against the charge he was Neil reborn - if only. For all his faults, Neil at least seemed to have convictions and ideas, whilst Ed seems to have slid out of conveyor belt producing bright young people who go from PPE at Oxford to SPAD to MP to cabinet member without ever actually *doing* anything.

EDIT: the first party that takes a stand for immigration, attacks the ridiculous scaremongering myths about it and tries to sort out the idiotic rules and measures we currently have, particularly around foreign students, gets my vote. At the current rate that's going to Boris of all horrors!
 

Nicktendo86

Member
Ed Milliband must be the most un-photogenic person on earth. I have yet to see a single picture of him, even in the left wing press, where he doesn't look like some sort of slightly insane wax robot mimicking human life.

I know it's shallow, but I do feel for the guy - he just looks totally and utterly incapable of being prime minister. .
He is clearly an Aardman character.

Edit: what complete and utter wankers.
http://order-order.com/2014/06/25/labour-sorry-for-hospitalised-mp-wife-attack/
 
I noticed that you have decided to concentrate on that as opposed to utter kicking Cameron is getting.
Kicking? The staggers and The Daily Mirror called PMQs for Dave. Clearly it's all a right wing conspiracy...

Face it. Miliband is shit. If Labour get in it will be because of a quirk in our weird voting/boundaries system rather than any enthusiasm for Labour/Ed. Hardly a platform he will be able to launch his glorious socialist revolution from that people here want.
 

kitch9

Banned
Because Major and Brown were slick PR men...

My comment was a (shallow) personal opinion about the fact the guy cannot catch a break, and like it or not the ability to not appear freaking wierd in every photo ever taken will matter in an election. It's not a modern thing either - people have always formed opinions and voted on trivial stuff like that.

Personally I don't think he should be leader, or PM, because he is staggeringly out of touch with the base of his party, seems incapable of fielding an effective ground game going into an election, and has yet to spell out a convincing vision for a natural left leaning voter like myself to actually come out and vote for him. For every good policy (nationalise railways), he follows it with either caveats with take the oomph out of it, or a counter policy that seems like he's gasping for the Essex vote (recent benefit fiasco). I also think that whilst Balls remains on the front bench, I'll find it incredibly hard to vote for labour simply because of the damage he caused during the last 10+ years and the way he acts in politics.

Recently they had to wheel Kinnock out to defend Ed against the charge he was Neil reborn - if only. For all his faults, Neil at least seemed to have convictions and ideas, whilst Ed seems to have slid out of conveyor belt producing bright young people who go from PPE at Oxford to SPAD to MP to cabinet member without ever actually *doing* anything.

EDIT: the first party that takes a stand for immigration, attacks the ridiculous scaremongering myths about it and tries to sort out the idiotic rules and measures we currently have, particularly around foreign students, gets my vote. At the current rate that's going to Boris of all horrors!

What are the immigration myths you speak of?
 

operon

Member
Speaking of a beasting we're likely gonna see camroon making a fool of himself in europe this week.

They bit I don't get is he seems to always pick the wrong things to try to show he can deliver the reform he's looking for. Always something he's going to lose and lose badly.
 

Walshicus

Member
They bit I don't get is he seems to always pick the wrong things to try to show he can deliver the reform he's looking for. Always something he's going to lose and lose badly.

He's just shown himself to be completely unable to handle the kind of consensual negotiation that takes place in Europe, and at the same time made himself look weak at home *while* also taking an undemocratic stand by opposing the EU parliament in favour of smoky back-room deals.

Junker's not the problem (and he's not actually a bad choice in of himself); everyone agrees that it's still the states which set the direction of the EU.
 

Walshicus

Member
So I've been reading the article on the BBC today about England's population growing 0.7% last year and it got me thinking: how much has our GDP per capita changed?

I mean we talk about how we're growing fast in GDP terms, but actually the majority of that growth over the last decade has been driven by population increase rather than per-person output growth. I mean we're still at 2004 levels of GDP per capita. And I bet if you only looked at the lowest earning 90% of the population that you'd have to go back even farther than that.


We need better visibility of real GDP per capita stats in politics.
 
Never going to happen.
I dunno, man. I don't think it will either, but I'm no where near as confident as you are it seems. I think we will vote, by a very fine margin, to stay, but honestly this is a debate that's going to go full purely for the next 3 years. Things can change.
 

8bit

Knows the Score
I think that one possible consequence of this is if Scotland votes for independence they'll have fewer barriers of getting into the EU as a way of rubbing Cameron's nose in it for his interventions.
 

Walshicus

Member
I'll mail you anything you want from Greggs if he even gets back in (even under a coalition) again. Cameron's a 1-termer history students won't even remember in a decade.
 
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