-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
UK PoliGAF thread of tell me about the rabbits again, Dave.
- Thread starter Chinner
- Start date
QuicheFontaine
Member
Well, from the previous page...
That makes me want to say "definitely yes". But frankly, it's getting a bit late in the day to defect now isn't it? The GE's only five and a bit months away.
Nicktendo86
Member
They are bleeding the working class vote and have been utterly complacent. I could see it but gut tells me they won't.
Second consecutive Tory one point yougov lead tofat BTW.
Not sure any really have the bottle. There's also not really the natural connection between Labours platform and what UKIP really believe, I suppose you could have someone from the right of the Labour party moving over.
I'm not sure we'll see anymore defections at all. From either side.
Z
ZombieFred
Unconfirmed Member
Well looks like my areas is under UKIP now (I live in Rochester here). Oh dear.
CyclopsRock
Member
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-feel-respect-whenever-I-see-a-white-van.html
This is not a parody.
This is not a parody.
CharmingCharlie
Member
Ed Milliband between bacon sandwiches said:
I can't really comment on the white van thing because I don't really have much of a feeling about people that own white vans other than "that's a white van" (yes I am aware of the moronic white van man stereotype). Oddly enough when I see a house draped in England flags I don't feel a sense of "respect" I just think "yup there lives a complete and utter dickhead". Obviously I am snobby and out of touch and should go "fuck yeah ENGERRRRRLUNNDDDDDD".
Meanwhile Ed continues to say anything that he thinks will get people to remotely like him.
I'm going to hold out hope that he is being weirdly quoted and he just said respects the people involved in contrast to Thornberry.
The only other possibility is that he's escaped from the alternate universe the Daily Mash reports on.
dapperbandit
Banned
They talked to someone about it early this morning.
Apparently the flags on that house were put up for the World Cup and the homeowner hadn't gotten round to taken them down yet.
Apparently the flags on that house were put up for the World Cup and the homeowner hadn't gotten round to taken them down yet.
What's he going to say? "Fucking white van drivers! No one likes them. Cut you up as soon as look at you."
WayneMorse
Banned
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30141159
As much as UK Poligaf dislikes Dennis Skinner, he's still awesome as hell. Gonna be a sad day when he passes.
As much as UK Poligaf dislikes Dennis Skinner, he's still awesome as hell. Gonna be a sad day when he passes.
WayneMorse
Banned
Also good post from SA about how harsh the media treats Miliband.
It's all media management and it's much easier to do it when the man who runs a huge media empire is every bit as mental and right wing as the tories are. The sun and other papers love Cameron because he is friends with them.
Nicktendo86
Member
Bullshit. Reckless did get shit for the 'send them home' thing, problem was it was too close to the polls opening to make a difference. Miliband is from a multi millionaire family and was parachuted into a safe Doncaster seat, he is every bit out of touch as anyone else.
The problem isn't that Miliband looks foolish eating a bacon sandwich or is a weirdo, the problem is he says he wants a new politics of substance rather than style and poses with the sun/feminist t-shirt. The problem is he comes up with populist nonsense. The problem is he was in the heart of the previous government which oversaw the biggest recession since the war.
HE is the problem, not the media.
http://youtu.be/vF3EnYb6HOQ?t=30s
that's pretty much what he's gone for. i think he was hoping the pull quote would be 'respect is the basic rule of politics'.
Don't forget that time he wore a T-Shirt that wasn't made by slave labour but some people pretended it was.
Masquerader
Member
Much of Miliband's incompetence is of his own doing, but the media seems like it's dominated by right-wing publications, which does make it seem more than a bit biased. It'd be nice if Miliband changed his way of portraying himself, though. I do feel rather sorry for him. But at the same time, IMO he's the right man for the moment. Labour would only be good for another term, and that's all. They're currently only good for displacing the Conservatives, and I don't see Labour getting its shit together any time soon. We need an actual left-wing party soon, 'cause Labour has been slowly taking up the role of the Lib Dems.
It's both. Milliband is not a good politician or potential leader for England.
BUT!
He is a better candidate than Cameroid. Labour are shit, but they're still better than the Tories.
It's not like we English have anyone with the capability, drive and competence that the Scots had in Alex Salmond; we're left to pick the best of a bad bunch.
Exterminieren
Banned
I for one am utterly astonished that it turns out that White Van Dan is a dyed in the wool UKIP voter.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
Will it? I don't think so. Bi-elections always appeal to the most hardened voters of any political party, and UKIP probably have the most vocal base of any party right now. The vast majority of people still align themselves to the two core parties, but the vast majority of people also don;t give a shit about bi-elections. The only mental thing will ne seeing UKIP and the the Lib Dems flip places.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Is that their campaign slogan
CyclopsRock
Member
Heheheh I think that guy's being incredibly generous. It wasn't a "random MP taking photos of a place they're in", it was a shadow cabinet member who was by all but the most absolutely non-cynical view being a total snob. Ed "forgetting" both the deficit and immigration is a sign of incompetence - I'm not sure what metric for success we're using when it comes to public speaking if forgetting big parts of it that are important to the electorate doesn't disqualify you. They couldn't know about the extent of the 1.7bn bill because it's not calculate just based on the UKs performance but by the performance of all 28 countries. No one said Miliband is "awful" because he didn't donate properly to a beggar, they think he looked like an idiot because of his clear thought process that went on. If he'd walked past, I doubt anyone would care. Politicians walk past homeless people all the time, just like everyone else. But he saw her, realised there were cameras and THEN decided to give money he didn't have. That was his choice, not "effective propaganda". Miliband's not out of touch because of how he eat a sandwich. That person is really fishing.
Yeah, sure, by-elections often give unusual results, but they've never elected UKIP candidates before. I mean, this is unusual because the two old candidates switched, but the fact they switched shows what sort of unusual circumstances we're in. Furthermore, UKIPs polls are better than they've ever been. The typical narrative is that they're a response to a liberalised Conservative under Cameron, but in terms of timelines that doesn't make much sense.
You don't think it'll be mental, so let's hear your prediction - roughly speaking, what'll happen re: the results in 2015? Tory or Lab Majority, hung parliament with who getting the most MPs? How will UKIP do?
Sorry, but let's not pretend suddenly that we're all in horror at that shadow ministers photo. Remove the party politics from it and I bet the majority of people here think 'dodgy' when you see a house festooned with the English flag. It's simply not normal and does have a strong association with the far right.
CharmingCharlie
Member
Well the house belongs to a Mr Dan Ware who is a cage fighting second hand car dealer. I should add "lazy" to the mix because apparently he put them up for the world cup and couldn't be arsed to take em down.
It's as if the stereotype god decided to have fun and combine all the stereotypes into one glorious (w)hole.
Well the house belongs to a Mr Dan Ware who is a cage fighting second hand car dealer. I should add "lazy" to the mix because apparently he put them up for the world cup and couldn't be arsed to take em down.
It's as if the stereotype god decided to have fun and combine all the stereotypes into one glorious (w)hole.
I think it's less shocking he still has the flags up now and more shocking that he kept them up in the weeks after England crashed out of the group stages.
Jezbollah
Member
^^ I have to admit - this made me chuckle.
Nicktendo86
Member
Gordon Brown to retire. Thought he did in 2010 but there you go.
WayneMorse
Banned
He's retiring in a few days, will be interesting to see if the SNP can snag his seat from Labour, would really be a game changer for 2015.
I really can't wait to see how Jim Murphy completely destroys Labour in Scotland.
I really can't wait to see how Jim Murphy completely destroys Labour in Scotland.
And his last noteworthy actions in politics was peddling lies to the entire country. Good riddance, Gordon.
Assuming their intention is to gain back the thousands of supporters that they've lost, Jim Murphy really is one of the worst choices they could possibly make. As he has proven to be greatly disliked by the left (the same people that they've lost) But I fully expect that he will be Labours choice, and they'll continue to prove they have learned absolutely nothing. General election is going to be brutal for them in Scotland.
Assuming their intention is to gain back the thousands of supporters that they've lost, Jim Murphy really is one of the worst choices they could possibly make. As he has proven to be greatly disliked by the left (the same people that they've lost) But I fully expect that he will be Labours choice, and they'll continue to prove they have learned absolutely nothing. General election is going to be brutal for them in Scotland.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
I suspect that, as I said before, UKIP will probably replace the Liberal Democrats as the UK's third largest party. However, I think those that genuanly believed in the liberal democrats ideals (and didn't just use the as a third party option) are more likely to shift their votes to Labour. I think, at this point, there will be a small majority for Labour.
As I say though, I'm more curious to see what hapens to the Liberal Democrats, given that they went from finally gaining a slither of power to seemingly being wiped out in a five year period.
CyclopsRock
Member
Briefly coming back to this, I just saw this poll from The Independent's John Rentoul on the Tweeters:
What do you think when see English flag draped from window? Proud 10%, Why not? 27%, Uncomfortable 18%, Contempt 7%, Don't care 33%: YouGov
Nicktendo86
Member
Rachel Reeves is such a fucking idiot.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
Who would have been a dyed in the wool labour voted not even a decade ago,
Could've equally have been a working class tory or BNP voter too.
CyclopsRock
Member
Yeah, maybe. Or maybe he was a MRLP member. But the fact is, Labour used to be a party that represented the working classes. This guy's crime appears to be hanging flags, and apparently that now means he's unlikely to have been a Labour voter? In a constituency that was solidly Labour for the 13 years before 2010?
If that's the case, and he was a Tory, just who is - or was, ten years ago, whilst the Tories were being dashed upon the rocks - Labour's "people"? I think the reason that the Labour party is embarrassed of people like this is that their liberalism, as a party, has moved at a much, much faster rate than the people they attest to represent.
The BNP Has never been a significant force in British politics.
The LibDem brand is so toxic now that I actually wonder if they could be facing oblivion. We know that big parties like Labour and the Conservatives are capable of rebuilding and recovering ground after even very heavy electoral defeats, but the LibDems are starting from a much smaller base of voters and financial support, and that could make the job of rebooting the party much harder and slower. Even if they avoid severe eradication in 2015 - let's say they hang on to around 30 seats - they've still lost a third of their party membership since 2010, which will be very difficult to recover, they have a smaller pool of potential leaders to choose from, and they'll be constantly battling against a deeply stained public image. And if Labour and the Greens are able to hold on the ex-LibDem voters I think it's possible to envisage the party incrementally withering away with each passing Parliament, especially if (and this is a big 'if', in my opinion) the Greens do emerge as the 'UKIP of the left', as some commentators have suggested might occur (I personally think this won't happen).
On the other hand, perhaps their reputation isn't as stained as it might seem. The fact that some polls show them retaining around 28 seats is, in my view, actually kind of impressive given the intense scorn they attract these days, and I'm not sure whether the voters will hold a grudge against the LibDems as a political blob in the same way they do against ideologically-divisive figures like Thatcher. I can see it going both ways. And, if they do hang on to 30-odd seats and slowly regain a few each year, is that really such a disaster for a party that has never come close to winning a majority? Not to be mean-spirited, but that sounds more or less like a return to business as usual for the Liberal Democrats.
I think 2015 is going to be fascinating. I honestly thought that it would be a Con-LibDem coalition in the months running up to the 2010 election, but this time I find it very difficult to imagine how things will turn out, much less what the long-term consequences will be. I just can't see Ed Miliband pulling it off, but I don't think the Tories are looking like winners yet either.
Northern Ireland: DUP to introduce bill to exempt religious people from equality laws
DUP party conference at the weekend, at one stage they (literally) had their puritanical cake and ate it to support the anti gay bakers. Gregory Campbell MP said he would use the Irish Language Act as toilet paper, as two weeks ago he mocked the Irish language in Stormont (go raibh maith agat = curry my yoghurt", so he ate a yoghurt onstage. I don't know either). Remember these people want into government with the Tories!
The Unionists are likely to form pacts in the Westminster election. Key target for the DUP is the remove the nonsectarian, liberal Naomi Long (Alliance Party) from her East Belfast seat.
Lowering corporation tax has long been an aim for the DUP and they plan to do this soon. Though considering, for all intents and purposes, the Republic's tax is zero, it's difficult to see how this will bring the 50,000 jobs they claim out will.
They're* also cutting higher education by 10% and want to raise tuition fees, presumably to the rest of the UK's £9k - a move supported by the Young Unionists, what a shining light for student politics!
*I say "they" because the Finance Minister is DUP, but by virtue of staying in the executive (under the belief it's better to piss out than piss in), all the parties are really complicit in the decisions.
In other NI news, there's a bit of an expenses scandal regarding rent. As far as I can tell, SF were effectively renting buildings from themselves via societies, and one small-town/rural UUP MLA was claiming £20k a year on rent, boasting the place was big enough to host "role-playing". I'm not sure what type of dungeon master that makes him.
DUP party conference at the weekend, at one stage they (literally) had their puritanical cake and ate it to support the anti gay bakers. Gregory Campbell MP said he would use the Irish Language Act as toilet paper, as two weeks ago he mocked the Irish language in Stormont (go raibh maith agat = curry my yoghurt", so he ate a yoghurt onstage. I don't know either). Remember these people want into government with the Tories!
The Unionists are likely to form pacts in the Westminster election. Key target for the DUP is the remove the nonsectarian, liberal Naomi Long (Alliance Party) from her East Belfast seat.
Lowering corporation tax has long been an aim for the DUP and they plan to do this soon. Though considering, for all intents and purposes, the Republic's tax is zero, it's difficult to see how this will bring the 50,000 jobs they claim out will.
They're* also cutting higher education by 10% and want to raise tuition fees, presumably to the rest of the UK's £9k - a move supported by the Young Unionists, what a shining light for student politics!
*I say "they" because the Finance Minister is DUP, but by virtue of staying in the executive (under the belief it's better to piss out than piss in), all the parties are really complicit in the decisions.
In other NI news, there's a bit of an expenses scandal regarding rent. As far as I can tell, SF were effectively renting buildings from themselves via societies, and one small-town/rural UUP MLA was claiming £20k a year on rent, boasting the place was big enough to host "role-playing". I'm not sure what type of dungeon master that makes him.
CyclopsRock
Member
Northern Ireland is just so utterly incomprehensible to me. I feel like trying to understand its politics is like trying to get into Lord of the Rings half way through the second book.
Labour abandoned the working classes long ago. I remember Jess Asato and her mates all reeling in shock when I suggested they should canvas in the Boston Arms rather than just the poncey gastros and coffee shops. She also said 'We don't have to canvas them, they'll vote for us anyway'. No wonder they're losing them.
Nicktendo86
Member
That last quote sums labour up (an politics in generally) beautifully. No party should rely on a set of voters to continually vote for them and idiots shouldn't keep voting for a party no matter what.
They were really sneery about the pub too. Admittedly it was (still? Not been back to Tufnell Park for a while) a bit rough ready but I found it extremely patronising.
CyclopsRock
Member
In fairness, they only think that because it's largely been true. It's nice, though, that UKIP and the Greens are shaking up that particular can of Coke, though, even if it ends up exploding in a bee-attracting stream of fizz on our faces.
Masquerader
Member
In other Northern Ireland news, a DUP minister said that the wish list from Sinn Féin shall be treated like toilet paper. No, I'm not joking. That's how immature they are.
Let me put it to you this way...
The politicians are useless, old, and irrelevant, even among politicians. The politics in NI are based entirely on religion, with other aspects such as human dignity, gay rights, gender quality, religious equality, and respect thrown out of the window. When the parties feel that they are in fear of being outed as the irrelevant morons that they are, they incite protests against flags. Should a Union Jack be taken down, they will successfully convince thousands to start aggressive protests against the Catholics. I give it 3 weeks until the next one, as they're starting to look unstable again. But don't worry, they'll start protests to draw the ire away from them for another year or so. Meanwhile, Sinn Féin sits there like an extreme Nick Clegg, happy to be in a comfty, high-paying job, and letting the DUP poke fun at them all the time.
Everyone will be surprised when they all start dying of old age soon. Probably because they dye their hair to look younger and more appealing, when they have nothing new to offer. But of course, people vote for them anyway. Trust me, the reason I'm somewhat vested in UK politics is because NI politics are absolutely broken, slovenly, corrupt, violent, and just awful in every way.
Let me put it to you this way...
The politicians are useless, old, and irrelevant, even among politicians. The politics in NI are based entirely on religion, with other aspects such as human dignity, gay rights, gender quality, religious equality, and respect thrown out of the window. When the parties feel that they are in fear of being outed as the irrelevant morons that they are, they incite protests against flags. Should a Union Jack be taken down, they will successfully convince thousands to start aggressive protests against the Catholics. I give it 3 weeks until the next one, as they're starting to look unstable again. But don't worry, they'll start protests to draw the ire away from them for another year or so. Meanwhile, Sinn Féin sits there like an extreme Nick Clegg, happy to be in a comfty, high-paying job, and letting the DUP poke fun at them all the time.
Everyone will be surprised when they all start dying of old age soon. Probably because they dye their hair to look younger and more appealing, when they have nothing new to offer. But of course, people vote for them anyway. Trust me, the reason I'm somewhat vested in UK politics is because NI politics are absolutely broken, slovenly, corrupt, violent, and just awful in every way.
Nicktendo86
Member
Nothing worse than a sneering politician. They genuinely wonder why the public hold them in such contempt. I've always imagined if I was ever in the position of a would be MP the FIRST place I would go is to the local pubs to canvass support. But no, these idiots are parachuted into safe seats and people vote for the party, not the person.
I'm off on a rant here, apologies
QuicheFontaine
Member
Given the national tanking of Lib Dem support, it feels kinda weird to be in one of the few safe Lib Dem constituencies (Bristol West). Our local MP had a majority of 20+% (over 11,000 votes) in the 2010 election so I just can't see him losing it.
I've just been on the wiki page for Bristol West, and apparently the Labour Party candidate for next year is called "Thangam Debbonaire". I refuse to believe that's a real name.
In terms of MPs I think people are underestimating what will happen. The lib dems will almost certainly have over20 MPs after the next General, and ukip will struggle to get 5. National polls don't mean much in specific areas, and as you can ask any labour politicians the lib dems have a ferocious ground game once they get into an area - they are very good at local politics (because they don't play the national game) and so do well despite the national trends in areas they have.
It is an unfortunate part of coalition politics unfortunately that the smaller party almost always end up doing worse out of the arrangement. The bigger party takes the credit for any success, and the minor party takes a lot of the heat for any failures or difficult decision.
(also I think for the lib dems a lot of voters 'price in' the conservatives - they expect them to be heartless, welfare cutting tax cutting monsters who steal your milk. The lib dems aren't generally believed to be in the category so they suffer an extra big penalty because of it)
It is an unfortunate part of coalition politics unfortunately that the smaller party almost always end up doing worse out of the arrangement. The bigger party takes the credit for any success, and the minor party takes a lot of the heat for any failures or difficult decision.
(also I think for the lib dems a lot of voters 'price in' the conservatives - they expect them to be heartless, welfare cutting tax cutting monsters who steal your milk. The lib dems aren't generally believed to be in the category so they suffer an extra big penalty because of it)
CyclopsRock
Member
We can't understand it and we live here