Support NeoGAF

[Sixfortyfive]

Switching my team order from Felicia/Taskmaster/Hawkeye to Felicia/Hawkeye/Taskmaster. Surprised it took me so long to realize that Hawkeye benefits from Taskmaster assist way more than the inverse.

Wesker hype bores me at this point. I'm not seeing it. What's he got that Felicia doesn't besides the gunshot? She's like playing Wesker and Wolverine at the same time! You'll all see it my way some day!

I give a lot of credibility to viscant's predictions because he correctly predicted LOTS of stuff about vanilla marvel early on (march/april), and this was when the fighting engine was brand new. Within a month, he had figured out the team skeleton of Wesker/x/Phoenix that would win him evo, and he starting using Haggar assist not long after. He predicted pretty accurately how evo top 8 would play out as well. Also, he was saying very early on that zero gave his team problems, and then we saw late in vanilla's life that a good zero was the one to take him down. I feel like he's good at not talking about things he doesn't understand yet, so when he does say something, it's well thought out and on the ball. I can't really find anything he said about vanilla marvel that turned out to be flat out wrong.

This is exactly why I simultaneously admire Viscant and am extremely irritated by tier arguments from know-nothing know-it-alls on the internet.

Spoiler

Not naming any names.

all i have to say is fuck you capcom for nerfing taskmaster and buffing wesker. remove 100k from taskmasters life but leave him the same otherwise. -_-

I think Taskmaster was buffed, honestly.

----------

XBL / PSN / (GAFname)
Kadey1up Kadey1up
Gunstarheroes77 N/A (Gunstar)
LeGiard N/A (Giard)
N/A Dragon17013 (Degen)
N/A ProfessorBeef (ProfessorBeef)
OldschoolGamerZ N/A (Oldschoolgamer)
N/A Karsticles (Karsticles)
ParallaxScroll ParallaxScroll (ParallaxScroll)
N/A lolez2matt (lolez2matt)
Bizazedo Bizazedo (Bizazedo)
Chocopolka N/A (Ken)
NAFLA (Nils)
N/A FullFlej (A Pretty Panda)
spindashing atrickcard (spindashing)
N/A Blaze627 (Lucky Number Seven Force)
corrosivefrost corrosivefrost (corrosivefrost)
N/A kevo_huevo (kevo_huevo)
N/A JeTmAn81 (JeTmAn81)
N/A Reigun16 (ReiGun)
arvinater N/A (enzo_gt)
N/A Bogue2kw (BY2K)
N/A MoTheHawk (Mo the Hawk)
N/A RuinerPrime (Twisted-Gamer)
N/A theonekid0 (supasmashed)
smurfxzilla N/A (smurfx)
N/A Cydonian (~Devil Trigger~)
doc wily N/A (galvatron)
KillaBMike Killasasa (Killa Sasa)
Dynasty Penguin / N/A (shaowebb)
N/A TheMadnessBeast (devastatorprime)
CoolGuy4Life Coolyguy4life (ThatCrazyGuy)
Heavenly Hammer / Heavenly-Hammer / (Dreams-Visions)
Sixfortyfive / N/A (Sixfortyfive)

 

[Dahbomb]

Zoning has it great against certain characters not so good against others. That's all I am saying. It's damn hard for someone like Iron Man to get in against Ghost Rider and Hawkeye who can just play it brain dead for the entire match. And Hawkeye/Ghost Rider have their bad match ups so that's fine.

Plus most of the zoning characters have the option to get in if they need to anyway. And some of the zoning characters have teleports too or air dashes.

Really though, if teleporters are getting in raw without an assist then there is something wrong with your defense. Teleporters without assists are nothing just like other characters who need assists to get in.

More people should start to play Vergil to get a grip of how tense it is to play him on point. You whiff a move with him and you are dead. You messed up an assist call you are dead. You messed up the input on your cancel or messed up your block string you are dead. You used Round Trip at the wrong time... dead.

Wesker hype bores me at this point. I'm not seeing it. What's he got that Felicia doesn't besides the gunshot? She's like playing Wesker and Wolverine at the same time! You'll all see it my way some day!

I have been saying this for quite some time now but people want to ride the bandwagon and they are welcome to do so.

 

[scytheavatar]

Dieminion is still learning this game and not doing anything more than basic combos, that's the scary part about him. There's still a lot of stuff from Joe, Strange and Morrigan that he's not doing yet. I think on the long run those 3 could prove to be the best zoning characters in this game, once people start to take them seriously and start working on them.

 

[smurfx]

is there a video out there showing what taskmasters new stabbing move beat? i know some of have said it should beat out a lot of stuff since its a cinematic but i haven't had a chance to try it. i want to see if it easily punishes armored moves.

Dieminion is still learning this game and not doing anything more than basic combos, that's the scary part about him. There's still a lot of stuff from Joe, Strange and Morrigan that he's not doing yet. I think on the long run those 3 could prove to be the best zoning characters in this game, once people start to take them seriously and start working on them.

morrigan is very underrated when it comes to zoning.

 

[Karsticles]

Zoning has it great against certain characters not so good against others. That's all I am saying. It's damn hard for someone like Iron Man to get in against Ghost Rider and Hawkeye who can just play it brain dead for the entire match. And Hawkeye/Ghost Rider have their bad match ups so that's fine.

Yeah, it is hard for one character to get in on two. It should be.

Plus most of the zoning characters have the option to get in if they need to anyway. And some of the zoning characters have teleports too or air dashes.

That's because most of the characters you call "zoning characters" are really hybrids. Dormammu is a hybrid. Trish is a hybrid. Pure zoning characters are basically Arthur, Sentinel, Ghost Rider, Nemesis, and Chris. Some would argue that command grabs remove Sentinel and Nemesis from that list, even.

Really though, if teleporters are getting in raw without an assist then there is something wrong with your defense. Teleporters without assists are nothing just like other characters who need assists to get in.

Try having a zoning moveset where every single move has 30 frames of startup and 30 frames of recovery, and then you tell me how someone with a 10 frame teleport gets in on you. Dormammu's entire zoning moveset is simply not an option against teleporters. In general, I don't mind that, because Dormammu is a hybrid and he has other virtues besides Purification spam. Against Dante in particular, though, it's just failure no matter what you try thanks to his ridiculous anti-air power.

More people should start to play Vergil to get a grip of how tense it is to play him on point. You whiff a move with him and you are dead. You messed up an assist call you are dead. You messed up the input on your cancel or messed up your block string you are dead. You used Round Trip at the wrong time... dead.

If you whiff a half-screen normal, you sure as fuck better be dead. Unless you're goddamn Dante, then you just Bold cancel it and go back to being perfect in every way.

is there a video out there showing what taskmasters new stabbing move beat? i know some of have said it should beat out a lot of stuff since its a cinematic but i haven't had a chance to try it. i want to see if it easily punishes armored moves.

My hunch is that it does. Firebrand's Bon Voyage beats armor. It went right through Nemesis' Biohazard Rush...lol.

Switching my team order from Felicia/Taskmaster/Hawkeye to Felicia/Hawkeye/Taskmaster. Surprised it took me so long to realize that Hawkeye benefits from Taskmaster assist way more than the inverse.

I think the only problem with your switch is that Taskmaster is a worse anchor than Hawkeye.

Wesker hype bores me at this point. I'm not seeing it. What's he got that Felicia doesn't besides the gunshot? She's like playing Wesker and Wolverine at the same time! You'll all see it my way some day!

Teleports, and that gunshot really is something. It's one thing to not be able to zone teleporters because it's not safe. It's another that I can't even try to zone Wesker because he does it better than me - lol.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

is there a video out there showing what taskmasters new stabbing move beat? i know some of have said it should beat out a lot of stuff since its a cinematic but i haven't had a chance to try it. i want to see if it easily punishes armored moves.

Couldn't give you a good rundown on what it beats but I can tell you that it's an excellent pressure tool against grounded opponents since it's only -3 on block. You're only at risk of getting thrown afterward and even then that isn't usually the case since it often pushes the opponent out of range.

I catch a lot of people with Shield Skill > Sharp Sting > Shield Skill when they try to punish the sting.

I think the only problem with your switch is that Taskmaster is a worse anchor than Hawkeye.

Maybe I'll change my tune once I feel as comfortable with Hawkeye as my old mains, but coming off of so much Taskmaster practice in vanilla it really is painful having to adjust to Hawkeye's extremely shitty normals (in comparison). He feels helpless up close without assists right now.

 

[smurfx]

If you whiff a half-screen normal, you sure as fuck better be dead. Unless you're goddamn Dante, then you just Bold cancel it and go back to being perfect in every way.

plus blocking his usual crap builds enough meter for him to go devil trigger and be completely safe and then go and chip your ass down.

 

[Karsticles]

The smallest change I would make in this game that would bring my team together tenfold:
Morrigan's Dark Harmonizer assist uses Shadow Servant for her THC instead of Finishing Shower.

Sigh.

 

[Karsticles]

Interesting article:
http://www.1up.com/features/how-japans-earthquake-changed-developers

Capcom lost a group of arcades and lost employees who moved home to stay with their families.

Maybe I'll change my tune once I feel as comfortable with Hawkeye as my old mains, but coming off of so much Taskmaster practice in vanilla it really is painful having to adjust to Hawkeye's extremely shitty normals (in comparison). He feels helpless up close without assists right now.

Ah, I was speaking more in the sense of comeback ability. My anchor being able to possibly wipe out a whole team is very important to me, and it's not an ability I peg Taskmaster as possessing.

Edit: Just one last thing before bed:
Nerfing Wesker's Rhino Charge was a horrible, horrible idea. That hyper was the only thoughtful part of the character, and a good Rhino Charge was a truly hype moment. If anything, he should have been oriented more around it.

 

[El Sloth]

which trick shot are you using to otg? H trick shot works a little better than L trick shot imo.

L trick shot and the ice arrows/M.

All the arrows seem to have the same trajectory to me so I just figured that my timing is wrong and/or I'm using the wrong trick shot. Do either work in the corner?

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Ah, I was speaking more in the sense of comeback ability. My anchor being able to possibly wipe out a whole team is very important to me, and it's not an ability I peg Taskmaster as possessing.

I can agree with that to an extent, but I'd say Hawkeye has the same problem when his opponent knows to respect Gimlet. They both strike me as characters who are excellent at capitalizing off of mistakes but have difficulty playing from behind, and Taskmaster has an easier time getting in and applying pressure from up close when necessary. Taskmaster also feels more safe than Hawkeye when forced to play without meter, and Hawkeye doesn't build meter very well once he's on his own.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah, it is hard for one character to get in on two. It should be.

No it's hard for anyone without a teleport or an assist to get in. No block during an air dash makes it so that even someone like Trish has a hard time getting in against Ghost Rider or Hawkeye.

Try having a zoning moveset where every single move has 30 frames of startup and 30 frames of recovery, and then you tell me how someone with a 10 frame teleport gets in on you. Dormammu's entire zoning moveset is simply not an option against teleporters. In general, I don't mind that, because Dormammu is a hybrid and he has other virtues besides Purification spam. Against Dante in particular, though, it's just failure no matter what you try thanks to his ridiculous anti-air power.

You complain about a zoning character having start up on their moves?

Vergil has half a second start up on at least 3 of his specials and he's a RUSHDOWN character. I already talked about his unfeasibly unsafe teleport and normals. So yeah... rush that ass down if you can and don't even bother push blocking him.

I don't care about the Dante complaints... he is top 3 S tier and always has been. He has no bad match ups whatsoever. Someone like Vergil and Wesker have their bad match ups and get blown up by tight rushdown. What are Wesker's options against someone like Firebrand? What can Vergil do against Viper? Wesker gets blown up by pixie rushdown so hard like X-23, Wolverine, Zero, Jill, Strider and Felicia.

 

[kirblar]

No it's hard for anyone without a teleport or an assist to get in. No block during an air dash makes it so that even someone like Trish has a hard time getting in against Ghost Rider or Hawkeye.


You complain about a zoning character having start up on their moves?

Vergil has half a second start up on at least 3 of his specials and he's a RUSHDOWN character. I already talked about his unfeasibly unsafe teleport and normals. So yeah... rush that ass down if you can and don't even bother push blocking him.

I don't care about the Dante complaints... he is top 3 S tier and always has been. He has no bad match ups whatsoever. Someone like Vergil and Wesker have their bad match ups and get blown up by tight rushdown. What are Wesker's options against someone like Firebrand? What can Vergil do against Viper? Wesker gets blown up by pixie rushdown so hard like X-23, Wolverine, Zero, Jill, Strider and Felicia.

Don't Vergil's teleports get much safer with Devil Trigger active?

 

[Dahbomb]

I am not talking about Devil Trigger in which Vergil is a completely different beast.

They have better recovery but they are still unsafe.

 

[smurfx]

L trick shot and the ice arrows/M.

Alll the arrows seem to have the same trajectory to me so I just figured that my timing is wrong and/or I'm using the wrong trick shot. Do either work in the corner?

well mid screen you definitely have to use H trick shot to get the otg. in the corner i kept having problems dashing back and then using L trick shot to otg. i then started using H trick shot in the corner to otg and had an easier time. although my hawkeye isn't all that good at this moment and i haven't put too much time into him. maybe sixfortyfive can give his opinion on this. right now i'm using haggar to help hawkeye in the corner to otg with his poison shot just so i can have an easier time.

 

[Xevren]

Whenever I push someone into the corner with Hawkeye and do a launcher, I jump back and hit them with the chain. When you land do a L trick into ice shot, hits fine and no need to dash. Sounds kind of weird but it works.

 

[Karsticles]

I can agree with that to an extent, but I'd say Hawkeye has the same problem when his opponent knows to respect Gimlet. They both strike me as characters who are excellent at capitalizing off of mistakes but have difficulty playing from behind, and Taskmaster has an easier time getting in and applying pressure from up close when necessary.

Makes sense.

No it's hard for anyone without a teleport or an assist to get in. No block during an air dash makes it so that even someone like Trish has a hard time getting in against Ghost Rider or Hawkeye.

What? First of all, Trish doesn't need to get in on Ghost Rider. Ghost Rider needs to get in on Trish. Second of all, Trish is much, much better at rushing than Hawkeye, and she can definitely get in.

You complain about a zoning character having start up on their moves?

Are you retarded tonight or something? I'm not complaining about the startup on Purification. I even said I accept and love this about the character. What I said was in response to this:

Really though, if teleporters are getting in raw without an assist then there is something wrong with your defense. Teleporters without assists are nothing just like other characters who need assists to get in.

I mentioned it to demonstrate that no, they really are not, in any way shape or form, the same. My considerations are completely different between teleporters and non-teleporters even 1v1.

Vergil has half a second start up on at least 3 of his specials and he's a RUSHDOWN character. I already talked about his unfeasibly unsafe teleport and normals. So yeah... rush that ass down if you can and don't even bother push blocking him.

ROFL, are you serious? You want to bring up a 28 frame startup on Vergil's Rapid Slash, which in your own words "is like Berserker Slash and Akuma's Tatsu assist combined", which leads to full combos for a bar of meter, compared to my 120K damage with no possible follow-up? I'll give you Judgment Cut, but it's a zoning tool on a rushdown character. Your third move is Round Trip, which is +89 on block. Cry me a fucking river.

I don't care about the Dante complaints... he is top 3 S tier and always has been. He has no bad match ups whatsoever. Someone like Vergil and Wesker have their bad match ups and get blown up by tight rushdown. What are Wesker's options against someone like Firebrand? What can Vergil do against Viper? Wesker gets blown up by pixie rushdown so hard like X-23, Wolverine, Zero, Jill, Strider and Felicia.

Wesker's huge range on his normals plus gun keepaway is really difficult for Firebrand. Firebrand's normals have piss poor range. I'll believe Wesker getting blown up by Jill when I see it. I'd love to see any of those characters "blow up" Wesker consistently in tournaments, actually, outside of the obvious Zero.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

well mid screen you definitely have to use H trick shot to get the otg. in the corner i kept having problems dashing back and then using L trick shot to otg. i then started using H trick shot in the corner to otg and had an easier time. although my hawkeye isn't all that good at this moment and i haven't put too much time into him. maybe sixfortyfive can give his opinion on this. right now i'm using haggar to help hawkeye in the corner to otg with his poison shot just so i can have an easier time.

My Hawkeye is still pretty scrubby and I'm going off of memory that might even be incorrect, but I think I've been using Trick Shot H into Ice Arrows for all of my OTGs and just backdashing in the corner to create the proper spacing.

You can end a corner combo with Trick Shot L into Poison Arrow (into Gimlet) without a backdash as long as you neutral jump for the last air combo instead of forward jump. Timing's a little tight though.

 

[devastatorprime]

Interesting article:
http://www.1up.com/features/how-japans-earthquake-changed-developers

Capcom lost a group of arcades and lost employees who moved home to stay with their families.


Ah, I was speaking more in the sense of comeback ability. My anchor being able to possibly wipe out a whole team is very important to me, and it's not an ability I peg Taskmaster as possessing.

Edit: Just one last thing before bed:
Nerfing Wesker's Rhino Charge was a horrible, horrible idea. That hyper was the only thoughtful part of the character, and a good Rhino Charge was a truly hype moment. If anything, he should have been oriented more around it.

Totally agree. Pretty much the only use I've gotten out of rhino charge in ultimate is against Ghost Rider jump S and Nemesis tenatcle spammers. I would love to have vanilla rhino charge back. I'd even take it in exchange for the glasses buff.

 

[smurfx]

what's weskers rhino charge nerf?

 

[Sixfortyfive]

what's weskers rhino charge nerf?

I think it might have lost all its invincibility on start-up. I have no reservations about rushing him down anymore.

 

[El Sloth]

Thank guys. Shame I'll have to wait until my next visit to Next Level to get in the lab though lol.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Anyone know the scheduling for the DLC costumes?

 

[smurfx]

I think it might have lost all its invincibility on start-up. I have no reservations about rushing him down anymore.

really? how much time does it take to start up? if this is true then i can rush that bastard down without having to worry about him using that hyper on me.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

really? how much time does it take to start up? if this is true then i can rush that bastard down without having to worry about him using that hyper on me.

The start up of the move is 5 frames. It becomes active and goes to the close up shot on the 5th frame. If you can hit him on the first 4 frames, you'll smack him out of it.

 

[Dahbomb]

What? First of all, Trish doesn't need to get in on Ghost Rider. Ghost Rider needs to get in on Trish. Second of all, Trish is much, much better at rushing than Hawkeye, and she can definitely get in.

Trish needs to get in on Rider/Hawkeye when they have Vajra which shut downs many options of Trish. I never talked about Hawkeye's rushdown.

ROFL, are you serious? You want to bring up a 28 frame startup on Vergil's Rapid Slash, which in your own words "is like Berserker Slash and Akuma's Tatsu assist combined", which leads to full combos for a bar of meter, compared to my 120K damage with no possible follow-up? I'll give you Judgment Cut, but it's a zoning tool on a rushdown character. Your third move is Round Trip, which is +89 on block. Cry me a fucking river.

Rapid Slash is hella overrated. No it's not like Berserker Slash plus Tatsu, there is only one range of it. I don't know how people still get hit by this move and if Vergil uses it and it gets blocked he HAS to burn meter or he dies. He can easily be hit out of this move as well in fact that's the best way to deal with it. If you can't stuff it out during it's half a second start up I don't know what to say.

Round Trip has to be charged up and has a ton of start up. It's not easy or spammable, you can have the move charged up the entire match and still have a hard time using it in a match. It's why you don't see many people using it yet but it's a good tool. Of course it's hella +ve on block... there should be some reward for using it after dealing with it's charge time and start up. It's so easy to get blown up by something like Gimlet if you are trying to use Round Trip. I would like to see Vergil players charge and use that move judiciously in matches because IMO it separates scrub Vergil players from good Vergil players... but again it's not easy and a far cry from the Buster.

Judgment Cut is a poor zoning tool, the hit box isn't that big. It's best use is to keep Vergil's block string safer but any block string involving Judgment Cut is not safe and can be blown up. Dormammu in particular has a great answer to this thanks to his Liberation spells. There is a 3 frame gap in the string where you can activate your art and it will come out no matter what.

Wesker's huge range on his normals plus gun keepaway is really difficult for Firebrand. Firebrand's normals have piss poor range. I'll believe Wesker getting blown up by Jill when I see it. I'd love to see any of those characters "blow up" Wesker consistently in tournaments, actually, outside of the obvious Zero.

You can ask any Wesker player about this... any character with a small hit box moving forward by passes his gun whether he is standing and shooting or if he's jumping and shooting. He can't deal with pressure that well against these characters because his counters are ass, he has no good reversal move and his best option is to just stick out a 5 frame jab hoping it trades or something. Like when X-23 gets in on Wesker with her 4 frame cr.L it's a tough position for him and she negates advancing guard well. Viscant already covered why Wolverine bodies Wesker hard and without Haggar, all Wolverines would've ran past Wesker at EVO. The top portion of the screen is where Wesker can't properly touch at all, another thing that Viscant has talking about at length. It's the space where characters like MODOK, Trish and Firebrand can mount an offense/defense from. Wesker's best bet is to try to super jump and air grab which isn't that solid. Wesker can't do much about Firebrand swooping around, I can speak this from experience.

Wesker needs assists to deal with these types of characters and that's why he is formidable. Smart team composition takes care of Wesker's weaknesses. It's why people are hyping up Wesker + Strider, Strider covers the portion of the screen that Wesker can't and he gets a combo off of it for free.

Vergil is the most unsafe character in the history of Marvel.

I don't know I am beginning to think it's Dr Strange after playing him more. I think the more I play him the more I realize Karst was right on him all along. I still don't think he's bad because no one with a hyper like SoV and that assist selection is bad. How the HELL does a character have moves that are UNSAFE and negative on HIT? I have heard that his Mystic Swords are there to deal with this but I am not getting it... one of those goes over small characters and if you AG him he's just stuck there whiffing Mystic Sword for a long ass time. Vergil at least has a legitimate safe block string to use.

I wish God's Beard was here to educate me on this character.

 

[Kadey]

I've nearly beaten people who have played the game since vanilla using Wesker alone after getting my other two characters blown up. And I've spent less than an hour of total play time across both games. Wesker is that good. Easy combos, hits hard and is so fast with ambiguous style of play.

And I agree with Vergil being unsafe. I think he's an offensive powerhouse, probably one of the best in the game but he dies too fast and ton of his moves leaves him open if blocked or at a certain range. Still going to use him however.

 

[Masamuna]

I've found decent success with my main team (IF/Task/Strider) but now I want to experiment a bit. Thinking about doing:

IF/Dante/Strange(a)

Weasel Shot feels pretty good for IF to get in, plus since hops behind it can be safer. Daggers for homing to help with people trying to lame out in super jump space. Problems is the daggers feels soooo slow, strange kinda hangs out forever. I may try to do jam session/bolts of ballsack though. Been hearing good things about strange's bolts, and although jam session doesn't serve the same purpose as vajra/hidden missiles it can lock down to a degree.

Then again I may stop learning strange and just tack on hidden missiles. Anybody have any suggestions?

Quoting for new page. Definitely not sure if I'm feeling daggers, and weasel shot is okay but it serves a better purpose for mid/close range lockdown rather than the cover I feel I need. Ran weasel shot/hidden missile online a bit with moderate success but my mindset with doom just doesn't seem to be working. I really need to put more time into because I feel so half dimensional once he rolls out onto the screen. Had much better success running jam session/task arrows but i'm not a fan of task as anchor.

Probably the best case scenario would be to have dante on jam session and choose a solid anchor that benefits both Dante and IF, preferably a horizontal assist that leaves him standing. Task, Hawkeye and IM could work. I could do some silly like frank/dante/IF, get frank to lvl3-5 and tag in IF once I take out their point character which sounds plausible but the worse case scenario being IF ends up as anchor doesn't sit well with me.

Spencer is also an option. Not so much for the combo extensions but more so because he Rad motherfucking Spencer.

 

[Dahbomb]

If I were you I would go for Iron Fist/Dante (Weasel Shot)/Strider (Vajra) for sure. Vajra for the aerial characters and Weasel Shot for the horizontal/mid screen coverage. I think that's the best way to be playing Iron Fist as of now. Dante + Strider is the money.

And I agree with Vergil being unsafe. I think he's an offensive powerhouse, probably one of the best in the game but he dies too fast and ton of his moves leaves him open if blocked or at a certain range. Still going to use him however.

Oh he's definitely very good but you have gotta think before you press buttons with him. If you are used to Dante and Wesker he is definitely a different pace. Hit confirm into Rising Sun BnB is the best way to learn the character because Rising Sun into Trick Down is -3 or less which is safe. Round Trip is a tool that has to be mastered with Vergil. Don't whiff those normals and make use of his great ground dash and normals to play footsies with the best. Helm Breaker is good, make sure you cancel that thing appropriately and follow it up with an assist for damage.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Rapid Slash is hella overrated. No it's not like Berserker Slash.

Round Trip has to be charged up and has a ton of start up. It's not easy or spammable.

Judgment Cut is a poor zoning tool, the hit box isn't that big.

Yeah, Dr. Strange is pretty unsafe on his normals. But his teleport his -extremely- fast to compensate. And he can pretty much put out projectiles that act as self-assists for his teleports.

Why? Because I hate the existence of all three [trench coat] characters in this game, that's why. Characters should have UNSAFE SHIT. .

Vergil is the very definition of unsafe.. And whiffed normals that can't be canceled into specials? That's some unsafe shit. He just feels very stiff and limited in terms of mobility especially when compared to Dante. I'll give you Dante and Wesker, but Vergil shouldn't be lumped in with those two, at all.

Vergil's easy to beat if you know what you're doing. Bait the whiffed normals, punish. Stay in the air - Vergil's entire game is based on his ground game. His teleports don't track in the air, he's got no air dash, no flight mode, no double jump, no air to air or ground to air projectile. The only thing you have to worry about is teching air throw attempts. That's all Vergil can do against an opponent in air.

Vergil's a strong character, but he's nowhere NEAR as good as Wesker or Dante.

 

[Dahbomb]

Probably playing against terrible Vergil players who can't hit confirm or whiff 3/4th screen normals or don't use Round Trip. Derp Vergil players are the easiest thing to beat short of derp Sentinel players. Smart Vergil players on the other hand.... well they are the ones winning stuff with him. Also derp usage of Vergil's Helm Breaker is surprisingly harder to deal with than most people think.

The teleport has bad recovery but when you time it with an assist the cross up is still difficult to react to. Also Vergil can throw Round Trip in the air so technically he does have an air to air special.

And Karst wasn't saying he was a safe character in fact he said that he isn't going to complain about him until he knows more about him. Which is fair and thus I am giving him information and weaknesses on the character.

And he can pretty much put out projectiles that act as self-assists for his teleports.

How does he make the space to throw out his long start up projectiles? Super jump spam projectiles and then teleport? I want to learn this character.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Probably playing against terrible Vergil players who can't hit confirm or whiff 3/4th screen normals or don't use Round Trip. Derp Vergil players are the easiest thing to beat short of derp Sentinel players. Smart Vergil players on the other hand.... well they are the ones winning stuff with him. Also derp usage of Vergil's Helm Breaker is surprisingly harder to deal with than most people think.

The teleport has bad recovery but when you time it with an assist the cross up is still difficult to react to. Also Vergil can throw Round Trip in the air so technically he does have an air to air special.

And Karst wasn't saying he was a safe character in fact he said that he isn't going to complain about him until he knows more about him. Which is fair and thus I am giving him information and weaknesses on the character.

Using an assist to promote teleport games is something that isn't Vergil exclusive. It applies to all teleport characters, even moreso with characters with faster teleports, i.e, - Dante, Rocket Raccoon, Phoenix, Dr. Strange, Wesker, Strider etc.

And a 120 total frame expenditure for roundtrip as an air to air projectile isn't really breaking ground. You won't get much mileage from it.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

How does he make the space to throw out his long start up projectiles? Super jump spam projectiles and then teleport? I want to learn this character.

Yes. Daggers of Denack or whatever track and have delay after they are put out. You can also just use his flight mode and throw out a bunch of shit. Or use a long assist that allows Dr. Strange to not only put out projectiles, but use the teleport all in one go - e.g., Sentinel Drones.

I plan on using Dr. Strange too. I find his mix-up reset potential as (if not more) appealing than Vergil's.

 

[smurfx]

here we have yesterdays blow up of the day.

http://www.twitch.tv/smurfx/b/301078214

tobe free to the mayor yesterday. man i made so many dumb mistakes in this match up. although not as many as tobe!

 

[Dominican Power]

Anybody has bnbs for Vergil/Wesker?

 

[Dahbomb]

Yes. Daggers of Denack or whatever track and have delay after they are put out. You can also just use his flight mode and throw out a bunch of shit. Or use a long assist that allows Dr. Strange to not only put out projectiles, but use the teleport all in one go - e.g., Sentinel Drones.

I plan on using Dr. Strange too. I find his mix-up reset potential as (if not more) appealing than Vergil's.

That doesn't answer my question as to how you plan to make space with Strange to use those Daggers. If you try to call Drones while calling Daggers you will just get happy birthday'd. You have to actually have space to first call Drones than Daggers or vice versa.

Using an assist to promote teleport games is something that isn't Vergil exclusive. It applies to all teleport characters, even moreso with characters with faster teleports, i.e, - Dante, Rocket Raccoon, Phoenix, Dr. Strange, Wesker, Strider etc.

I never said anything about exclusivity but that doesn't change the fact that it's still extremely effective. Vergil can also fake the cross up better than some of those characters.

And a 120 total frame expenditure for roundtrip as an air to air projectile isn't really breaking ground. You won't get much mileage from it.

The charge time isn't a problem because you are charging it all the time during the match like Buster. The start up is the issue but again if the current anti-Vergil tech is to just stay away/jump and have him whiff moves than this is how you get around it. If they have to rushdown then they have to deal with Vergil's normals and anti-airs, if they try to stay away they have to deal with Round Trip + assist pressure.

 

[Dahbomb]

Anybody has bnbs for Vergil/Wesker?

Vergil: LMH f+H Rising Sun Trick Down sj. MHS H f+H L Trick HS j. MH d+H d/f+H Dimension Slash

Wesker: cr.LMH QCF+L~L d/f+H cr.M st.H QCF+M dash up cr.MHS j.MMH Phantom Dance or add an S then d/f+H THC

You can do better with both these characters but these BnBs you should know for sure.

Edit: Sorry for the double post still not used to multi-quoting lol.

 

[Dominican Power]

Vergil: LMH f+H Rising Sun Trick Down sj. MHS H f+H L Trick HS j. MH d+H d/f+H Dimension Slash

Wesker: cr.LMH QCF+L~L d/f+H cr.M st.H QCF+M dash up cr.MHS j.MMH Phantom Dance or add an S then d/f+H THC

You can do better with both these characters but these BnBs you should know for sure.

Edit: Sorry for the double post still not used to multi-quoting lol.

You know the notation for the loop with vergil

 

[Dahbomb]

I do but which one? You should get this BnB down first it's solid.

Best thing to do with Spiral loops is to just do as many Lunar Phase as possible. It's the most effective balance of execution and damage. You can two in one Spiral Swords and 3 if you haven't used your bounce before.

Just watching the SRK - Welcome/Goodbye Phoenix tournament and holy shit the FChamp self dick sucking is hilarious.

 

[Neki]

I hate that Vergil bnb, the super jumping always gets me.

 

[Hero]

So how is Phoenix Wright? Viable at all?

 

[Khal_B]

I hate that Vergil bnb, the super jumping always gets me.

Yeah, that Sj gets really annoying. With an OTG assist, Vergil has some incredibly damaging combos though, right now I have one that's really easy to hit and does 830-850k damage, uses 2 meters though.

 

[Dahbomb]

I don't like making comments on characters I don't play a ton... but Wright isn't looking too hot right now.

Like I said before the game came out his biggest issue is landing that magical Objection hit. Until there are set ups discovered that don't involve ridiculous DHCs/TACs set ups... he's not going to be a tournament staple.

There are other Vergil BnBs to use which start off with cr. LMH Stinger which causes a wall bounce. When you get to the corner you can use Lunar Phase for the extra ground bounce damage. Just be sure to cancel into something safer if you are blocked.

OTG with Vergil is solid for sure, definitely ups his damage considerably.

 

[McNum]

So, any verdict on how Morrigan is doing?

The air-dash nerf did hurt her, but how much? I used to like playing her in TvC and MvC3, and as far as I can tell, she's still basically Morrigan, even if I'm way too rusty with her now. Tried her out a bit in Training and Arcade, which, I know, isn't real fighting, but I see Astral Visioned meter drain Soul Fists as being really annoying to fight. Yeah, slow startup, and it can be blocked, but that's also kind of the point. When that fireball is out, you need to respect it. So it's not just to drain the opponent you send it out, it's also to make the opponent react to it.

Plus I learned something funny, but mostly useless. Galactus does not have infinite Hyper. I did not really expect Morrigan to drain him dry, but... she can. And Galactus can't block. Free Hyper for Team Morrigan!

I'm beginning to think that as much as I like Felicia, I'm just not good enough with her to have her on team 1. I really need to practice her a lot more before she's even close to good enough to take into a fight. I might have Morrigan replace her, for what's now a very newbie friendly Captain America/Ryu/Morrigan thing. Ryu loves his meter, after all, and Cap is a decent battery. Or maybe I should also swap out Cap, but I don't know. Team building is hard. You know, maybe I should just run some of these through some Player Matches or beginner lobbies and see what happens. When I recover from whatever it is I've picked up. Being sick sucks.

 

[Dahbomb]

LMAO NO respect for Dark Phoenix. Honzo just chillin' with Hawkeye in the corner just letting Dark Phoenix health run out. Champ is mind fucked as to what to do. Rushdown with either air dash or teleport get blown up by Gimlet. Try to bait out a Gimlet... get chipped to death and lamed out.

 

[scytheavatar]

So, any verdict on how Morrigan is doing?

The air-dash nerf did hurt her, but how much? I used to like playing her in TvC and MvC3, and as far as I can tell, she's still basically Morrigan, even if I'm way too rusty with her now. Tried her out a bit in Training and Arcade, which, I know, isn't real fighting, but I see Astral Visioned meter drain Soul Fists as being really annoying to fight. Yeah, slow startup, and it can be blocked, but that's also kind of the point. When that fireball is out, you need to respect it. So it's not just to drain the opponent you send it out, it's also to make the opponent react to it.

Plus I learned something funny, but mostly useless. Galactus does not have infinite Hyper. I did not really expect Morrigan to drain him dry, but... she can. And Galactus can't block. Free Hyper for Team Morrigan!

I'm beginning to think that as much as I like Felicia, I'm just not good enough with her to have her on team 1. I really need to practice her a lot more before she's even close to good enough to take into a fight. I might have Morrigan replace her, for what's now a very newbie friendly Captain America/Ryu/Morrigan thing. Ryu loves his meter, after all, and Cap is a decent battery. Or maybe I should also swap out Cap, but I don't know. Team building is hard. You know, maybe I should just run some of these through some Player Matches or beginner lobbies and see what happens. When I recover from whatever it is I've picked up. Being sick sucks.

1) Morrigan's forward air dash was never that good in vanilla and those who knew how to play her rarely uses it without canceling it into something, so essentially those complaining about the no blocking in air dash nerf ruining her didn't know how to play her.

2) She's buffed, not just buffed by a bit but by a lot. She's now one of the best zoners in this game.

3) You should try Felicia/Capt/Ryu.

 

[McNum]

1) Morrigan's forward air dash was never that good in vanilla and those who knew how to play her rarely uses it without canceling it into something, so essentially those complaining about the no blocking in air dash nerf ruining her didn't know how to play her.

2) She's buffed, not just buffed by a bit but by a lot. She's now one of the best zoners in this game.

3) You should try Felicia/Capt/Ryu.

1), Yeah, when I do a low altitude air-dash with Morrigan, it's because there's a Shell Kick coming your way. Naked air dashes with Morrigan were a bad plan in vanilla, too.

2) I kind of got that feeling off her, yes. She can put a ton of fireballs on the screen if you know how, and she's not that bad close up, either.

3) Felicia in the Wolverine role? Get in, stay in, do damage, and try to take out the opponent's first character before she falls herself?

Hm, I thought she was better as anchor? Then again, with Rolling Buckler assist losing the knockdown, and Sand Splash being just a passable OTG assist, she doesn't actually have that much to offer assist-wise anymore. I had her third for her X-Factor 3 power. But, since I can't actually do her XF3 infinite yet, that might be a bad plan. Plus there are some deliciously mean Cat Crawl + Shield Slash/Tatsu assist tricks to pull, and getting an XF3 Ryu with 3-4 hyper bars does seem kind of powerful. Karate-man sure loves his Shinkuu Hadoken... Plus, I do like his explosive, invisible Hadoken.

 

[FSLink]

I don't like making comments on characters I don't play a ton... but Wright isn't looking too hot right now.

Like I said before the game came out his biggest issue is landing that magical Objection hit. Until there are set ups discovered that don't involve ridiculous DHCs/TACs set ups... he's not going to be a tournament staple. .

I agree that it's his biggest problem and I'm a Wright player. Though having an OTG assist like Wesker helps a ton, being able to combo into Objection from a normal or air grab is really useful, and makes landing Objection much easier. also c.L c.M c.H -> Press the Witness M -> H H Objection is also a pretty easy combo to do to get it started, though it'd involve actually getting a hit in with Wright....


XBL / PSN / (GAFname)
Kadey1up Kadey1up
Gunstarheroes77 N/A (Gunstar)
LeGiard N/A (Giard)
N/A Dragon17013 (Degen)
N/A ProfessorBeef (ProfessorBeef)
OldschoolGamerZ N/A (Oldschoolgamer)
N/A Karsticles (Karsticles)
ParallaxScroll ParallaxScroll (ParallaxScroll)
N/A lolez2matt (lolez2matt)
Bizazedo Bizazedo (Bizazedo)
Chocopolka N/A (Ken)
NAFLA (Nils)
N/A FullFlej (A Pretty Panda)
spindashing atrickcard (spindashing)
N/A Blaze627 (Lucky Number Seven Force)
corrosivefrost corrosivefrost (corrosivefrost)
N/A kevo_huevo (kevo_huevo)
N/A JeTmAn81 (JeTmAn81)
N/A Reigun16 (ReiGun)
arvinater N/A (enzo_gt)
N/A Bogue2kw (BY2K)
N/A MoTheHawk (Mo the Hawk)
N/A RuinerPrime (Twisted-Gamer)
N/A theonekid0 (supasmashed)
smurfxzilla N/A (smurfx)
N/A Cydonian (~Devil Trigger~)
doc wily N/A (galvatron)
KillaBMike Killasasa (Killa Sasa)
Dynasty Penguin / N/A (shaowebb)
N/A TheMadnessBeast (devastatorprime)
CoolGuy4Life Coolyguy4life (ThatCrazyGuy)
Heavenly Hammer / Heavenly-Hammer / (Dreams-Visions)
Sixfortyfive / N/A (Sixfortyfive)
FSLink / amodestproposal / (FSLink)

 

[SolarPowered]

LMAO NO respect for Dark Phoenix. Honzo just chillin' with Hawkeye in the corner just letting Dark Phoenix health run out. Champ is mind fucked as to what to do. Rushdown with either air dash or teleport get blown up by Gimlet. Try to bait out a Gimlet... get chipped to death and lamed out.

Any video or some sort of time stamp? My old and cynical eyes need to see this.

 

[scytheavatar]

Hm, I thought she was better as anchor?

DJ Huoshen started her on point and was good enough to get 7th in Season's Beatings, which is probably the biggest achievement a Felicia player has ever achieved. In vanilla she's utter crap without an assist helping her get in, those playing her as anchor were relying on her strength with lvl 3 X Factor, the problem is that you might as well play Wesker than her as anchor. Back in vanilla you might as well use Wolverine than Felicia on point too, but the Wolverine nerfs and huge Felicia buffs more or less means that Felicia is potentially the new Wolverine. People are just waiting for J Wong to start pwning with her, which he will in a few day's time.