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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT| of 9 Years Urley

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T

Trey

Member
QisTopTier said:
Ok, you are either just trolling now or are straight up ass at the game.
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I'm questioning the knee jerk reaction people are having which is very similar to that of Sentinel. Wesker was never wrecking your team outside of XF if you knew how to play him and not try to play footsies with him. The only character in the game that was doing that was D.Phoenix, and she got grounded in a big way. You can scoff at the health nerf, but now Wesker dies easier. It's important in this game of set ups leading to five minute long combos with damage scaling.

I have seen one half hearted attempt at coming up with a reasonable reason to nerf him, including some analysis of the meta. The rest is just a bunch of online warrior esque crying. People are calling Wesker top 5 in a game already full of 8 new characters and a retooled system and nerfs and buffs for every character. Chill out and think about things before you get all passive agressive with the rhetoric.
 
M

Malajax

Member
A friend brought this over. So good. I was gonna wait it out a bit, but I don't think I can last past christmas without this in my veins!

Question: Who is a good partner for Hulk? I've settled on the duo of Hulk and Shuma, but I couldn't find a good 3rd character. Hulk with a otg assist would be gdlk, so Wesker? Any suggestions would be great.
 
O

Oldschoolgamer

The physical form of blasphemy
The sunglasses mechanic makes sense for Wesker. He got pissed off in CVX when they got knocked off his face, and again in RE5. It's a villain cliche and has been since The Matrix movies came out (probably before). Whenever the Gucci frames come off, they get faster and hit harder. Lol

That said, he didn't need the shit in the game. LOL
 
G

Grecco

Member
Malajax said:
A friend brought this over. So good. I was gonna wait it out a bit, but I don't think I can last past christmas without this in my veins!

Question: Who is a good partner for Hulk? I've settled on the duo of Hulk and Shuma, but I couldn't find a good 3rd character. Hulk with a otg assist would be gdlk, so Wesker? Any suggestions would be great.
Click to expand...

Who do you like? Sentinel with Drone Assist can always help.
 
S

Solune

Member
A Pretty Panda said:
They should definitely give Hulk some sunglasses.
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r6kZS.png

Professor Beef said:
Is Trey scytheavatar's alt account?
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Gatdayum, we in there.
 
I

ihearthawthats

Banned
lowhighkang_LHK said:
Sentinel was never that good. Before nerf or after nerf.
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yes he was. he wasn't top 5, but neither was she-hulk. he had the one of the best assists in the game (and still does), and he had one of the best lvl3 x-factors in the game, and also had access to the dhc glitch. so many scrubs played him, which probably will make people think that hes free but there are also a lot of good sents out there. fanatiq and filipino champ probably being #1 and #2.

all i can say is that despite his nerfs in umvc3, there are still a lot of reasons to use him and people still do (heck, combofiend even used him for a while on his ghost rider team). can't say the same thing with she-hulk.
 
A

A Pretty Panda

fuckin' called it, man
ihearthawthats said:
yes he was. he wasn't top 5, but neither was she-hulk. he had the one of the best assists in the game (and still does), and he had one of the best lvl3 x-factors in the game, and also had access to the dhc glitch. so many scrubs played him, which probably will make people think that hes free but there are also a lot of good sents out there. fanatiq and filipino champ probably being #1 and #2.

all i can say is that despite his nerfs in umvc3, there are still a lot of reasons to use him and people still do (heck, combofiend even used him for a while on his ghost rider team). can't say the same thing with she-hulk.
Click to expand...

Name another top player that uses Sent.
 
I

ihearthawthats

Banned
A Pretty Panda said:
Name another top player that uses Sent.
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name even 1 player that uses she-hulk.

like i said, hes not top5 and probably not even top10 in vanilla, but if he were it'd be the 10 spot just barely. but to say that hes bad is pretty ridiculous. definitely no longer top10 in ultimate, but still a good character.


too lazy to find that dahbomb breakdown of every single major... but heres evo:
1. Viscant (Wesker, Haggar, Phoenix)
2. DMG|PR Balrog (Dante, Wolverine, Tron)
3. EG|Justin Wong (She-Hulk, Wolverine, Akuma)
4. cc.coL|Combofiend (She-Hulk, Taskmaster, Spencer)
5. UVG|Noel Brown (Wolverine, Wesker, Akuma)
5. cc.coL|Filipino Champ (Magneto, Sentinel, Phoenix)
7. Mine (Wesker, Taskmaster, Phoenix)
7. X-Ray (Dante, Amaterasu, Magneto)
9. Clockw0rk (Doctor Doom, Amaterasu, Phoenix)
9. EMP|Sanford Kelly (Storm, Wesker, Akuma)
9. Richard Nguyen (Wolverine, Dante, Haggar)
9. Marn (Magneto, Zero, Akuma)
13. Flocker (Zero, Phoenix, Tron)
13. HORI|AndyOCR (Storm, Sentinel, Haggar)
13. EG|fLoE (She-Hulk, Wolverine, Akuma)
13. Stone (Zero, Wesker, Dormammu)
17. TL|Fanatiq (Magneto, Storm, Sentinel)
17. LB|ChrisGNY (Amaterasu, Ryu, Wesker)
17. Moose (She-Hulk, Magneto, Tron)
17. EMP|Evil Rahsaan (Spider-Man, Sentinel, Phoenix)
17. CCG|Detrimantix (Wolverine, Sentinel, Phoenix)
17. Xian (Wesker, Magneto, Akuma)
17. Y2J (Magneto, Wolverine, Akuma)
17. Crispy Tacos (Dante, Taskmaster, Felicia)
25. KillerKai (Zero, Wesker, Taskmaster)
25. Nefelious (Wolverine, Sentinel, Phoenix)
25. Cheech Wizard (Haggar, Taskmaster, Doctor Doom)
25. EMP|Remix (Magneto, Wolverine, Sentinel)
25. RyRy (Magneto, Zero, Spider-man/Akuma)
25. HORI|Tatsu (X-23, Deadpool, Sentinel)
25. GCYoshi13 (Chris, Spencer, Sentinel)
25. DacidBro (Dante, Taskmaster, Akuma)
Click to expand...
 
T

Trey

Member
If we're going by MVC3, then there were two top 5 Shulks at Evo on that very list you put out.

That being said, Sent is at least a top half character and can make an argument for 10-13 range. He's almost worth a spot for his assist alone, nevermind his damage capability.
 
F

finalboss2

Member
I bet this game gets to a point where zoning by jumping to the top corner of the screen is hard countered by Strider, so nobody does that strategy and the need for Strider anchor disappears w/ Vajra, and then nobody feels like learning Strider's anchor and they actually put him on point and try to learn him with assists.
 
T

Trey

Member
Karsticles said:
As long as Dante has half-screen reach on his normals that also happen to anti-air, and they're 100% safe thanks to Bold Cancel, he needs more nerfs.
Click to expand...

Dante's range has already been nerfed. Unless you're talking about stinger, in which case, no. You can only bold cancel into a special, and they have startup frames.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
ihearthawthats said:
too lazy to find that dahbomb breakdown of every single major... but heres evo:
Click to expand...

Top 16 (I'm not going through the entire list here) has a total of 2 Sentinels.

In comparison:
5 Weskers
5 Phoenixes
5 Wolverines
5 Akumas
3 Dantes
3 Haggars
3 She-Hulks
3 Zeros
2 Trons
2 Taskmasters
2 Magnetos
2 Ammys
2 Storms

Why I'm listing this? Well, you can try and make sense out of this data. If Sentinel is so good, why is he on the same amount of uses as Tron, who is arguably worse? Why does he have less uses as Haggar, who is arguably even worse than Tron? You really think that these characters are played because they're good? Or is it rather because these players wanted to use their good assists?

We know for a fact that at the very least Fanatiq plays Sentinel out of character loyalty, and I believe the same goes for Filipino Champ. I also remember AndyOCR saying he plays Sent out of loyalty (don't quote me on that, though).

Of course Sentinel isn't a BAD character. At least in my case, I was saying "bad" in comparison to Wesker or any other top tier. But if you argue that Sentinel is Top 10 or close to Top 10 because of his assist you also would have to argue that Haggar, Hsien-Ko and Tron are Top 10/close to Top 10 because their assists are godlike too. And that's just silly. In fact, you would have to argue that Haggar is better than Sentinel, because he is more often on the Top 16, and he actually won Viscant the tournament. Come on now.

Sentinel obviously is better than Haggar, Tron or god forbid Hsien-Ko, but he's definitely not a Top 10 character, or even close to Top 10, there's so many more characters who are better.
 
G

Grecco

Member
Its great once you spend a bar of meter to get her with gold armor. Other than Wright getting to Turnabout mode, its the only assist you have to set up to get to work. Yes its godly when shes super armored but not so much when shes not.


Basically what im saying is id rather have assists i dont have to do anything with than assists you have to spend resources on.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
Grecco said:
Its great once you spend a bar of meter to get her with gold armor. Other than Wright getting to Turnabout mode, its the only assist you have to set up to get to work. Yes its godly when shes super armored but not so much when shes not.


Basically what im saying is id rather have assists i dont have to do anything with than assists you have to spend resources on.
Click to expand...

You are missing my point. I was saying that if you value "assist usefulness" as part of how to rate a character, then Hsien-Ko definitely is worth a mention. Of course the notation that Hsien-Ko is good is silly, hell, I even remember someone saying that one downside of the Hsien-Ko assist is having to play Hsien-Ko, lol. Just cause her assist is gdlk doesn't make her good, she's completely agreed upon being garbage by pretty much everyone. The same can be applied to Sent, just cause the drones are good doesn't mean he's Top 10 (or close to it).
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
It's somewhat irritating to me that some people still insist on writing off a character as "bad" when that character's assist wins tournaments. This is a team game, and the value that a character has is directly proportional to how much they contribute to their team. Which is why anyone who considers Vanilla Haggar to be less than top tier has a few screws loose, as he dictated the pace of a match more often than not.

Red Arremer said:
You are missing my point. I was saying that if you value "assist usefulness" as part of how to rate a character, then Hsien-Ko definitely is worth a mention.
Click to expand...
No. The fact that you have to set up her assist to use it immediately diminishes its value.
 
D

~Devil Trigger~

In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Karsticles said:
Sentinel =/= Sentinel's assist. Some people actually want to use the character beyond the assist. By your definition, Hsien-ko is "competitive".
Click to expand...

lol joke or you actually compared LeiLei's offense with Sentinel's...

DHC glitch(well, back then), very DHC friendly hypers, , high damage, great limbs, great comeback factor. Im not saying he doesn't have weaknesses but he has great tools, and we've seen Sentinels blow up teams in countless tourneys now.
 
I

ihearthawthats

Banned
Red Arremer said:
Why I'm listing this? Well, you can try and make sense out of this data. If Sentinel is so good, why is he on the same amount of uses as Tron, who is arguably worse? Why does he have less uses as Haggar, who is arguably even worse than Tron? You really think that these characters are played because they're good? Or is it rather because these players wanted to use their good assists?

We know for a fact that at the very least Fanatiq plays Sentinel out of character loyalty, and I believe the same goes for Filipino Champ. I also remember AndyOCR saying he plays Sent out of loyalty (don't quote me on that, though).

Of course Sentinel isn't a BAD character. At least in my case, I was saying "bad" in comparison to Wesker or any other top tier. But if you argue that Sentinel is Top 10 or close to Top 10 because of his assist you also would have to argue that Haggar, Hsien-Ko and Tron are Top 10/close to Top 10 because their assists are godlike too. And that's just silly. In fact, you would have to argue that Haggar is better than Sentinel, because he is more often on the Top 16, and he actually won Viscant the tournament. Come on now.

Sentinel obviously is better than Haggar, Tron or god forbid Hsien-Ko, but he's definitely not a Top 10 character, or even close to Top 10, there's so many more characters who are better.
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i listed many reasons why sent was good, and only provided that list due to someone asking me to name more sent players. no where did i say that hes top 10 solely because of his assist. his assist should be taken into consideration, however.

i only listed that list because someone asked me to name some sent players. you're not seriously going to tell me that haggar has more play, so that makes him better? even so, there are only 8 characters that have received more play than sent. also, where's viper?


kartisticles said:
Sentinel =/= Sentinel's assist. Some people actually want to use the character beyond the assist. By your definition, Hsien-ko is "competitive".
Click to expand...
and they do. sent is competitive because he has a gdlk assist, but he also happens to be good on point. tron and haggar while not that great on point, were certainly still better off than quite a few characters, including hsien-ko.
 
G

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
Red Arremer said:
You are missing my point. I was saying that if you value "assist usefulness" as part of how to rate a character, then Hsien-Ko definitely is worth a mention. Of course the notation that Hsien-Ko is good is silly, hell, I even remember someone saying that one downside of the Hsien-Ko assist is having to play Hsien-Ko, lol. Just cause her assist is gdlk doesn't make her good, she's completely agreed upon being garbage by pretty much everyone. The same can be applied to Sent, just cause the drones are good doesn't mean he's Top 10 (or close to it).
Click to expand...

Are you seriously arguing that "assist usefulness" is NOT part of how to rate a character as competitive or not? Drones are a part of why Sentinel is competitive, but it's not the only reason. Godly DHCs, easy way into DHC glitching, super armor, hits like a goddamn truck. All aspects of the character should be taken into account.

Yes, Hsienko Gold Armor assist is worth a mention, but she on point is such a liability that it's not worth it to a lot of players. And it costs meter. And she can still get hit. And you have to burn another meter for a safe DHC. You know this already, but it doesn't change the fact that her assist is actually very good and boosts whatever competitive factor she had (which was very very little). But getting her to that state is expensive, and everything else about her is lacking... that's why she's not competitive. And she's not even easy to use on point, which is another problem. This means you have to learn a lot to get very little out of her. Anyone can pick up Sentinel and use him on a very basic level.

Haggar and Tron assist in Vanilla instantly skyrocketed their usage and their "competitive"-factor. Neither had as many problems in setting up their assists or being on point as Hsienko, though.
 
G

Grecco

Member
Sixfortyfive said:
It's somewhat irritating to me that some people still insist on writing off a character as "bad" when that character's assist wins tournaments. This is a team game, and the value that a character has is directly proportional to how much they contribute to their team. Which is why anyone who considers Vanilla Haggar to be less than top tier has a few screws loose, as he dictated the pace of a match more often than not.


No. The fact that you have to set up her assist to use it immediately diminishes its value.
Click to expand...

I agree 110 percent.
 
T

Trey

Member
Red Arremer said:
You are missing my point. I was saying that if you value "assist usefulness" as part of how to rate a character, then Hsien-Ko definitely is worth a mention. Of course the notation that Hsien-Ko is good is silly, hell, I even remember someone saying that one downside of the Hsien-Ko assist is having to play Hsien-Ko, lol. Just cause her assist is gdlk doesn't make her good, she's completely agreed upon being garbage by pretty much everyone. The same can be applied to Sent, just cause the drones are good doesn't mean he's Top 10 (or close to it).
Click to expand...

What is he, then? Not that I don't agree with most of this, I'm just curious to know which 12-15 characters you indisputably put ahead of Sent, all things considered, as you believe he's not even close to a top 10 character.
 
I

ihearthawthats

Banned
You are missing my point. I was saying that if you value "assist usefulness" as part of how to rate a character, then Hsien-Ko definitely is worth a mention.
Click to expand...
hsien-ko's gdlk assisst can't make up for her downsides. of course assists must be taken into consideration, but unless they are ridiculously broken they can't make up for being bad on point (which sent isn't).


he is not top 10 in umvc3, not even top 15. it can be argued that he was in vanilla though.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
ihearthawthats said:
i listed many reasons why sent was good, and only provided that list due to someone asking me to name more sent players. no where did i say that hes top 10 solely because of his assist. his assist should be taken into consideration, however.
Click to expand...

That was in response to the other guy who said that Sent is definitely 10-12th or so because of his assist only.

i only listed that list because someone asked me to name some sent players. you're not seriously going to tell me that haggar has more play, so that makes him better? even so, there are only 8 characters that have received more play than sent. also, where's viper?
Click to expand...

I was just using that list as an example. And by the time of EVO, Viper wasn't "discovered" yet.

GuardianE said:
Are you seriously arguing that "assist usefulness" is NOT part of how to rate a character as competitive or not?
Click to expand...

No, but it's definitely not as much as to make a character be top tier or not.


Trey said:
What is he, then? Not that I don't agree with most of this, I'm just curious to know which 12-15 characters you indisputably put ahead of Sent, all things considered, as you believe he's not even close to a top 10 character.
Click to expand...

Okay, I would say these characters are undoubtedly better than Sentinel (in no particular order):
Wolverine, Phoenix, Dante, Wesker, Magneto, Dormammu, C. Viper, Akuma, Amaterasu, Trish, Zero, Spencer, Spider-Man, She-Hulk, Doctor Doom, X-23.

I would say these characters could be better than Sentinel, but are kinda ambiguous to me:
Chris, Jill, Storm, Felicia, MODOK, Skrull, Hulk.
Edit: Forgot to put Morrigan here.

The others are pretty much clearly worse than Sentinel. Also, just because I say he's a worse character than these doesn't mean he's a BAD character. Marvel, outside of the absolute top and the absolute bottom is REALLY well balanced, believe it or not. Ultimate even more so, aside from a few outliers.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
~Devil Trigger~ said:
lol joke or you actually compared LeiLei's offense with Sentinel's...

DHC glitch(well, back then), very DHC friendly hypers, , high damage, great limbs, great comeback factor. Im not saying he doesn't have weaknesses but he has great tools, and we've seen Sentinels blow up teams in countless tourneys now.
Click to expand...
You know Hsien-ko can also DHC glitch, right? DHC friendly hypers is not what makes for a good character. Damage only matters if you can actually hit your opponent, which Sentinel has a hell of a time doing. He's definitely better than Hsien-ko in XF3, but he's still not even a top XF3 character.

You've seen Sentinel blow up teams in XF3, and you've seen it a good number of times because a good number of people use Sentinel. Only one player uses Hsien-ko, therefore you're going to see her make a comeback much less often.

As a point character, Hsien-ko has fewer weaknesses than Sentinel.
 
G

Grecco

Member
Karsticles said:
You know Hsien-ko can also DHC glitch, right? DHC friendly hypers is not what makes for a good character. Damage only matters if you can actually hit your opponent, which Sentinel has a hell of a time doing. He's definitely better than Hsien-ko in XF3, but he's still not even a top XF3 character.

You've seen Sentinel blow up teams in XF3, and you've seen it a good number of times because a good number of people use Sentinel. Only one player uses Hsien-ko, therefore you're going to see her make a comeback much less often.

As a point character, Hsien-ko has fewer weaknesses than Sentinel.
Click to expand...

What defines one. Sentinel had one of the highest XF3 damage bonuses in Vanilla.
 
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