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[Parallax Scroll]

I'm trying out Spencer, another character I didn't learn in vanilla. I looked up combos and the dude seems kind of complicated, with stuff that only works midscreen, stuff that only works in the corner, etc. I'm not really sure where to start. Does he have something fairly easy that's a step above ABCS BBCS that works anywhere on screen?

 

[sixteen-bit]

BBCS

oh wow, Capcom trolling Arc?

 

[Parallax Scroll]

oh wow, Capcom trolling Arc?

lulz i thought of that long ago

seriously though what's an easy combo with spencer

 

[Sixfortyfive]

If it isn't shitty netcode giving me problems it's my local isp. I hate online play so fucking much.

Anyone know the ideal upstream/downstream power levels and such you should be getting out of a cable modem by any chance? Need to see if I can isolate the problem myself before I put myself through the inconvenience of tech support.

 

[Frantic]

I'm trying out Spencer, another character I didn't learn in vanilla. I looked up combos and the dude seems kind of complicated, with stuff that only works midscreen, stuff that only works in the corner, etc. I'm not really sure where to start. Does he have something fairly easy that's a step above ABCS BBCS that works anywhere on screen?

Spencer is honestly pretty damn easy. ABCS, BBCS, Wire Grapple OTG, Bionic Lancer is more or less his BnB midscreen. In the corner you would just add a j.S as you start to land and then Armor Piercer into Bionic Manuevers. It's not that hard once you've gotten the hang of the timing.

 

[enzo_gt]

In other news, after seeing this thread on SRK, I decided to try my hand at getting these elusive titles because GAF crushed my confidence so bad. Shout outs to the dudes on SRK for this thread.

Turns out for the special titles, all you need is Arcade mode, and one match won really (Days Of Future Past one you have to get that stage though).

So yeah here we go. For reference, here is the Make Your Team post.

Days Of Future Past

• Here is a picture of the title.
• You get this title by winning a match on the Days Of Future Past stage using a team composed of costumes from Age of X or Age of Apocalypse.
• I did it with Hulk 6, Wolverine 5 and Magneto 3.

Ultimate Defiance

• Here is a picture of the title.
• You get this title by winning a match with all of your team members in their Ultimate-inspired costumes.
• I did it with Hawkeye, She-Hulk and Super-Skrull, all with convenient colour number 4.

What If I'm Exiled?

• Here is a picture of the title.
• You get this title by winning a match ON A CAPCOM STAGE with all of your team members costume's inspired by either the WHAT IF? or EXILES series.
• Turns out there's only one combination that makes this work: Dormammu 5, Iron Fist 6 and MODOK 4.

The other two? I don't fucking know. One says win a match using characters whos costumes are inspired by other characters, but that's either completely wrong or not specific enough. I know some of the colours (the rest of the titles use the word "costume" in the context of alt colours) were not directly inspired but similarly resemblances to other characters, and some which are extremely similar characters (Hulk; Red Hulk) but I chose explicit ones. People on SRK were having trouble too. I chose Chris (Chuck Green), Nova (Quasar), Taskmaster (Black Knight & Mr. Fear) and C. Viper (Claire Redfield), and nothing. So, yeah. And the other one, the Avengers in space one, yeah I beat both Sea Of Space and Galactus with the Avengers team to no avail.

And yeah, I did this as I was pretty fucking bummed after my shitty performance in the GAF lobby. I can't believe I got that much worse after not playing in a week, I gotta hit up training mode to warm up before I go online ever again -.-' Ran a few sets with Bark and he boosted my confidence a bit

Spoiler

You're a much better player than me, I'm a fraud.

but GGs to Bark and GGs to everyone GAF.

 

[Grecco]

I just want the Stream Monster title.

 

[enzo_gt]

I just want the Stream Monster title.

I wonder, _dementia where did you hear about that being a title anyways?

Mon Google-Fu fails me.

 

[Kadey]

PSN up very soon.

I jammed my finger. Ow.

 

[Trey]

Okay, I would say these characters are undoubtedly better than Sentinel (in no particular order):
Wolverine, Phoenix, Dante, Wesker, Magneto, Dormammu, C. Viper, Akuma, Amaterasu, Trish, Zero, Spencer, Spider-Man, She-Hulk, Doctor Doom, X-23.

I would say these characters could be better than Sentinel, but are kinda ambiguous to me:
Chris, Jill, Storm, Felicia, MODOK, Skrull, Hulk.
Edit: Forgot to put Morrigan here.

The others are pretty much clearly worse than Sentinel. Also, just because I say he's a worse character than these doesn't mean he's a BAD character. Marvel, outside of the absolute top and the absolute bottom is REALLY well balanced, believe it or not. Ultimate even more so, aside from a few outliers.

I'm assuming you're omitting the new eight.

I agree with Wolverine, Dante, Wesker, Mags, Dorm, C.Viper, Ammy, Zero, Spencer and Doom for sure.

I think Shulk, Storm, Skrull, Trish, Spiderman, MODOK, Akuma, Ryu, X23 are in the same zip code.

I don't quite know how I feel about the new Phoenix yet.

He's a cut above the rest, to me. So I have him in the 11-19 range, which is about where most would put him.

 

[Frantic]

And yeah, I did this as I was pretty fucking bummed after my shitty performance in the GAF lobby. I can't believe I got that much worse after not playing in a week, I gotta hit up training mode to warm up before I go online ever again -.-' Ran a few sets with Bark and he boosted my confidence a bit

Spoiler

You're a much better player than me, I'm a fraud.

but GGs to Bark and GGs to everyone GAF.

Haha, I tried to use your team on stream in honor of you after you left, but I got happy birthday'd. I have no idea how to use Iron Fist outside of his combos, and my Ryu and Iron Man are both ass.

But yeah, GGs to all in the lobby.

 

[Dahbomb]

What are some of Vergil's good anti-air moves?

..... All of them.

Serious answer is Rising Sun, L, M, H, S (not Stinger). Air to air are j. M and H. Air to ground are j d+H and j.S. Lunar Phase is a good anti-air but not recommended for use out of combos. Round Trip is effective air to air too.

I missed a ton of tier/balance discussion in the past 6 pages.


On the note of Sentinel vs Wesker balance issue: First of all I will just go on the record and say that I have stated before that Wesker and Sentinel healths should be swapped. Sentinel patch should've happened but it was too extreme. He didn't deserve to be a 1.3 million health character but 900K was way too low, he should've been no more than 1.1 million and no less than 1 million.

As far as where Sentinel ranks in tiers, he was bottom of A in vanilla and in Ultimate he is like upper B (essentially Upper Mid tier). He has assets on him that allow the team to win the game which include strong DHCs, easy damage and a top assist but he has inherent weaknesses to his point game that prevent him from being a dominating tournament staple character. The reason for the slight decrease in tiers is simply because there are more characters now who body Sentinel or deal with the assist. By default there are more characters above Sentinel now.

Wesker was top 5 before and he's top 5 now. You aren't going to get any arguments from anyone here and from anyone on any other forum on this. He's not the absolute best but he's definitely way up there. He's way better than vanilla pre-patch Sentinel ever was and we have 9 months+ data and tech on him. The simple fact of the matter is that an easy and dominating character like Wesker prevents growth of the game like what happened in vanilla where people flocked to Sentinels, Weskers, Wolverines and Phoenix... but in Ultimate there is only one brain dead dominating character to flock to. By prevention of growth I simply mean that people are less likely to pick other characters aside from those that benefit Wesker or those that are benefited from having Wesker.

Fix the glasses mechanics and fix Phantom dance... let the game breath. The glasses mechanic is dumb.. no one in their right mind can defend this. Going into UMVC3 I didn't even know how it worked so I said Wesker was "fine" because I thought using hypers removed the buff not added it. Not other character in the game has such easy access to 600K meterless damage like Wesker does.

 

[Red Arremer]

For the Avengers in Space thing, have you tried using costumes based on the space-faring in the cartoon? I forgot which ones exactly, but I remember the grey hawkeye one with the golden face, and I believe Cap had one as well (the new reddish one). I forgot who else had one, but I'm sure it was Thor.

As for the "other characters":
Ryu (Ken, maybe Evil Ryu)
Dormammu (blue-headed purple one - Rorkannu)
MODOK (the yellow/red one - MODAM and the purple one that references Howard the Duck)
Red She-Hulk
Chuck Greene - didn't Frank have one too?
Vanessa and Saki for Jill
Orange/Grey for Super-Skrull (Rl'nd)
Shadow Lady for Chun-Li
Several of Strider's costumes (I remember the brown Ibuki one specifically)
Vergil, Dante and Trish have several based off each other
Vergil's Demitri
Wesker's Bison
Vile, Bass and white X armor for Zero
Roll for Tron
Pretty much all of Joe's, Wright's and Ammy's

That's all I can think of atm. :V

I'm assuming you're omitting the new eight.

I agree with Wolverine, Dante, Wesker, Mags, Dorm, C.Viper, Ammy, Zero, Spencer and Doom for sure.

I think Shulk, Storm, Skrull, Trish, Spiderman, MODOK, Akuma, Ryu, X23 are in the same zip code.

I don't quite know how I feel about the new Phoenix yet.

He's a cut above the rest, to me. So I have him in the 11-19 range, which is about where most would put him.

I was talking about vanilla entirely. -_-

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

LOL at thinking Dante needs more nerfs.

His combos and entire gameplay and plan needs to re-learned from the ground up in Ultiamte. His range you speak of isn't actually that much range, since the hitboxes have been nerfed to the point where they appear smaller than the animation actually dictates they are (which doesn't make sense). They aren't as good anti-airs anymore and it's hard to follow up on them since Dante's normal cause so much pushback.

Dante can't reliably combo after throws. And he's got no "get off me move" - Hammer used to be that kind of move, which is why I imagine it was so powerful to begin with, but even that is now more or less useless as a 'get off me move' - it's purpose now is to serve as a double overhead.

Dante's damage output has greatly dropped, as did his meter gaining ability. Dante isn't even the same character that he was in Vanilla, he's been entirely revamped in terms of execution and results.

They also lowered the gap in order to bold cancel, making it something hard to do now. I can't reliably bold cancel anymore because they made the timing more strict. Before - we had 3 frames...what do we have now? 2 frames? Not sure.

Also, Dante's got the slowest normals in the game - with an 8 frame start up on his jabs. Making his jabs slower than Sentinel's jabs.

This is why he has long range normals, because his normals are SLOW AS SHIT. Crouching A - which is a valuable tool for 99.9% of the cast, is Dante's biggest weakness. You don't press it unless you know the spacing and range and if you're covered by an assist. The reason Dante has bold cancel is because if you're dumb enough to even allow Dante to extend his limbs, the Dante player deserves to bold cancel out of it.

Dante is the least of Ultimate Marvel's concerns. Again - Wesker, Spencer, Doom, maybe Nova are the ones I think you'll be seeing more and more of.

 

[Professor Beef]

Maybe they meant different series instead of different characters for the alts. Wouldn't that narrow the list down?

 

[A Pretty Panda]

I'm assuming you're omitting the new eight.

I agree with Wolverine, Dante, Wesker, Mags, Dorm, C.Viper, Ammy, Zero, Spencer and Doom for sure.

I think Shulk, Storm, Skrull, Trish, Spiderman, MODOK, Akuma, Ryu, X23 are in the same zip code.

I don't quite know how I feel about the new Phoenix yet.

He's a cut above the rest, to me. So I have him in the 11-19 range, which is about where most would put him.

Twelve... There are twelve new characters.

 

[Kadey]

Alright. PSN lobby is up.

http://www.twitch.tv/kadeybaybe

 

[Trey]

Twelve... There are twelve new characters.

Yeah, my bad. I'm still thinking in terms of the immediate leak.

 

[enzo_gt]

Maybe they meant different series instead of different characters for the alts. Wouldn't that narrow the list down?

For the Avengers in Space thing, have you tried using costumes based on the space-faring in the cartoon? I forgot which ones exactly, but I remember the grey hawkeye one with the golden face, and I believe Cap had one as well (the new reddish one). I forgot who else had one, but I'm sure it was Thor.

As for the "other characters":
Ryu (Ken, maybe Evil Ryu)
Dormammu (blue-headed purple one - Rorkannu)
MODOK (the yellow/red one - MODAM and the purple one that references Howard the Duck)
Red She-Hulk
Chuck Greene - didn't Frank have one too?
Vanessa and Saki for Jill
Orange/Grey for Super-Skrull (Rl'nd)
Shadow Lady for Chun-Li
Several of Strider's costumes (I remember the brown Ibuki one specifically)
Vergil, Dante and Trish have several based off each other
Vergil's Demitri
Wesker's Bison
Vile, Bass and white X armor for Zero
Roll for Tron
Pretty much all of Joe's, Wright's and Ammy's

That's all I can think of atm. :V

It would, I shall try it for the goodness of GAF. I tried to pick ones with the furthest connections, so ones like Evil Ryu and Ken felt like they wouldn't work. Lemme try Chris (Chuck Green) / Wesker (Bison) / Vergil (Demitri).

Also:

WANTWANTWANTWANTWANT.

 

[Trey]

Dante is the least of Ultimate Marvel's concerns. Again - Wesker, Spencer, Doom, maybe Nova are the ones I think you'll be seeing more and more of.

Nah, Dante is still a force. Top tier character, probably still top 5. He was nerfed in execution, which is no real nerf at all.

I was talking about vanilla entirely. -_-

Meh, that's no fun.

Sent was probably top 10 in Vanilla, and if he wasn't, he was very close.

 

[Red Arremer]

Meh, that's no fun.

Sent was probably top 10 in Vanilla, and if he wasn't, he was very close.

No. He really wasn't. All the characters I listed as definitely better ARE definitely better, and that's already like 16. The others are debatable, but I believe most if not all of them are better than Sentinel.

Again, that doesn't make him a bad character.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Do these title things work if I just go to Arcade mode? What's the easiest place to do it?

 

[Parallax Scroll]

I missed a ton of tier/balance discussion in the past 6 pages.

I'll sum it up:

1. Wesker needs a nerf like Sentinel got in vanilla
2. No he doesn't

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

What are some of Vergil's good anti-air moves?

Standing S will give you the most mileage. If it's blocked, go straight into H and then cancel into judgement cut, rapid slash or assist call.

L, M, H may or may not work depending on how deep the jump-in is, and who is doing it. For example, Nemesis (I believe his H or his S, not sure don't use him) will eat any normal anti airs for breakfast. But S as long as you get it at the zenith of his jump, it should connect.

Rising Sun is iffy because if it's done at the wrong spacing - even if you teleport cancel on guard, opponents can counter.

It's interesting you ask - I was at a tournament this past Tuesday - and I made a more active effort to perform anti-airs instead of wave dashing under -> assist call -> mixup. Vergil's anti-airs are both better and worse than Dante's.

Again, it depends on how deep the jump in is and who is doing it. But Vergil's standing S would probably be his singular best move.

Lunar Phase is absolutely idiotic to use as anti-air. Don't do it, and don't even get in the habit of doing it, good players will bait it out and punish afterwards.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Spencer is honestly pretty damn easy. ABCS, BBCS, Wire Grapple OTG, Bionic Lancer is more or less his BnB midscreen. In the corner you would just add a j.S as you start to land and then Armor Piercer into Bionic Manuevers. It's not that hard once you've gotten the hang of the timing.

Thanks. I will experiment.

 

[enzo_gt]

Bleh, it doesn't work still.

 

[Trey]

No. He really wasn't. All the characters I listed as definitely better ARE definitely better, and that's already like 16. The others are debatable, but I believe most if not all of them are better than Sentinel.

Again, that doesn't make him a bad character.

It doesn't.

Phoenix, Wolvie, Akuma, Taskmaster, Doom, Mags, Dante, Zero, Ammy, Wesker were hands down better. No argument.

The rest were debatable at most. X-23, Shulk, Spiderman and Trish are not clear cut better.

 

[Red Arremer]

enzo, try playing on space-related stages with these:
http://i.imgur.com/RO65T.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kCbwT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VL3R1.jpg

That should work.

It doesn't.

Phoenix, Wolvie, Akuma, Taskmaster, Doom, Mags, Dante, Zero, Ammy, Wesker were hands down better. No argument.

The rest were debatable at most. X-23, Shulk, Spiderman and Trish are not clear cut better.

While I disagree - that's already 10 you list as better. Thus by default, he cannot be better than 11th (i.e. Top 10).

 

[Professor Beef]

It would, I shall try it for the goodness of GAF. I tried to pick ones with the furthest connections, so ones like Evil Ryu and Ken felt like they wouldn't work. Lemme try Chris (Chuck Green) / Wesker (Bison) / Vergil (Demitri).

Also:

WANTWANTWANTWANTWANT.

fuuuuuuuuuuuu I want that title.

EDIT: It would suck if the Stream Monster title was unlocked by PP or something.

 

[Trey]

I'll sum it up:

1. Wesker needs a nerf like Sentinel got in vanilla
2. No he doesn't

Even though you probably didn't mean it like this, but I find the notion of a health nerf only for Wesker being an interesting topic. If Wesker got punted to ~800k and nothing else, what would that do to his meta?

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Nah, Dante is still a force. Top tier character, probably still top 5. He was nerfed in execution, which is no real nerf at all.



Meh, that's no fun.

Sent was probably top 10 in Vanilla, and if he wasn't, he was very close.

I'm not saying Dante is no longer a force, but the idea of nerfing him more is borderline ridiculous, when there are other characters who need to be considered for such before Dante. As for top 5...maybe, maybe not. It all depends really how some of these new 12 characters play out. Nerfed Hammer, lower damage out put on his attacks, decreased range, push back increase on normals, increased damage scaling, less meter gain, plus the execution changes, there is really nothing else to nerf on Dante. They touched all bases, basically nerfing his game in all areas. I.e, damage, meter, move properties, increased pushback on specials, range on normals, lowered bold cancel frames, increased pushback on normals etc.

The only aspect of Dante that really wasn't nerfed was his health, they kept it at 900,000. And unfortunately, easier inputs for Dante's rekkas don't really apply to Dante players who practiced with him so much for the sole reasons of getting those things. Thanks Capcom - didn't really need that but whatever.

He's obviously still great, probably still top tier or upper-mid, but he doesn't need to be altered.

 

[Ken]

fuuuuuuuuuuuu I want that title.

EDIT: It would suck if the Stream Monster title was unlocked by PP or something.

What if it was unlocked by doing something as a spectator in a lobby?

 

[Red Arremer]

What if it was unlocked by doing something as a spectator in a lobby?

Then Kadey would already have it.

 

[Ken]

Then Kadey would already have it.

Maybe it's related to the preset messages you can use as a spectator.

 

[Professor Beef]

What if it was unlocked by doing something as a spectator in a lobby?

There's no prereq for any title in the list for doing something in the lobby.

 

[Red Arremer]

Maybe it's related to the preset messages you can use as a spectator.

Then I would probably have it, lmao.

Nah, I doubt it has to do with spectating.

 

[Ken]

There's no prereq for any title in the list for doing something in the lobby.

Then I would probably have it, lmao.

Nah, I doubt it has to do with spectating.

Oh well.

 

[Solune]

I'm trying out Spencer, another character I didn't learn in vanilla. I looked up combos and the dude seems kind of complicated, with stuff that only works midscreen, stuff that only works in the corner, etc. I'm not really sure where to start. Does he have something fairly easy that's a step above ABCS BBCS that works anywhere on screen?

They changed the timing of it in UMvC3 due to Zipline speed but midscreen add Zipline DF > J.S > Bionic Arm.
In the corner I just do Combofiends combo.
MHS > HS > Air Wiregrapple H > (while dropping Down) J.S > j.M j.H j.S > Zipline DF > S > SJC Wiregrapple H Add L (Reel Punch) > Bionic Bomber > Super. You can add select assists for more damage in between.

 

[Trey]

While I disagree - that's already 10 you list as better. Thus by default, he cannot be better than 11th (i.e. Top 10).

Conceded.

I'm not saying Dante is no longer a force, but the idea of nerfing him more is borderline ridiculous, when there are other characters who need to be considered for such well before Dante. As for top 5...maybe not. It all depends really how some of these new 12 characters play out. Nerfed Hammer, lower damage out put on his attacks, decreased range, push back increase on normals, increased damage scaling, less meter gain, plus the execution changes, there is really nothing else to nerf on Dante. They touched all bases, basically nerfing his game in all areas. I.e, damage, meter, move properties, increased pushback on specials, range on normals, lowered bold cancel frames, increased pushback on normals etc.

The only aspect of Dante that really wasn't nerfed was his health, they kept it at 900,000. And unfortunately, easier inputs for Dante's rekkas don't really apply to Dante players who practiced with him so much for the sole reasons of getting those things. Thanks Capcom - didn't really need that but whatever.

He's still gold though, but he doesn't need to be altered.

For the record, I agree with you that Dante doesn't need nerfs. Though I disagree with your stance that he doesn't need nerfs because he got nerfed already. The nerfs levied upon Dante weren't trivial, but they didn't change him or really limit his effectiveness. He's still outranging pretty much everybody. Plus, most offense is started with assist mixups or punishes, so Dante's footsie game is pretty low priority, though it has never been strong to begin with. He's still got his cut-above spacing, his box jump with H, and Air Trick plus all the shitload of options to keep an opponent guessing. Plus, Hammer got more invincibility frames on start up so it's kind of better in the sense that if you're throwing it out, and you know what you're doing, you probably just stuffed somebody and are well on the way to styling on 'em.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Even though you probably didn't mean it like this, but I find the notion of a health nerf only for Wesker being an interesting topic. If Wesker got punted to ~800k and nothing else, what would that do to his meta?

Health nerfs are stupid and generally don't address real problems.

Wesker already got the biggest health nerf in UMvC3 (which is completely justified).

 

[enzo_gt]

enzo, try playing on space-related stages with these:
http://i.imgur.com/RO65T.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kCbwT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/VL3R1.jpg

First thing I did last time, just went through arcade mode again now 3 times with that team, beat galactus, sea of space, with no character dying, etc. And no title still. Must be bugged. Or we need to play from the ISS or something.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Conceded.



For the record, I agree with you that Dante doesn't need nerfs. Plus, Hammer got more invincibility frames on start up so it's kind of better in the sense that if you're throwing it out, and you know what you're doing, you probably just stuffed somebody and are well on the way to styling on 'em.

Wait what? Can you elaborate a little on that?

In Vanilla Dante's hammer started up on 5 frames after Killer Bee. And it had invincibility through the entire thing. Meaning it was invincible from frames 5 through 19. In Ultimate, it's only invincible on frames 11 - 20. Meaning, it's not invincible for 6 frames after Killer Bee "turns" into Hammer. Whereas the invincibility in Vanilla happened on the very first frame Hammer came out (which was 5 frames after Killer Bee)

Maybe I'm not seeing it the way you are, if you care to further explain.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Health nerfs are stupid and generally don't address real problems.

Wesker already got the biggest health nerf in UMvC3 (which is completely justified).

I still feel Capcom should have an anti-nerf mentality, and more concern themselves with buffing other characters as opposed to nerfing anyone that claims first place at some back water local minor tournmanet....but if they WERE to nerf Wesker:


1) Lower Damage output
2) Get rid of this sunglasses bullshit. Fucking retarded.
3) Lower X-factor level 3 damage bonus

As for buffs: they should improve his counter game. He could have really been an interesting character with some nice uses for his hyper counter and normal special counters. Nobody really bothers to do these things when they can just herp-derp a crouching A into so much damage.

 

[Trey]

Wait what? Can you elaborate a little on that?

In Vanilla Dante's hammer started up on 5 frames after Killer Bee. And it had invincibility through the entire thing. Meaning it was invincible from frames 5 through 19. In Ultimate, it's only invincible on frames 11 - 20. Meaning, it's not invincible for 6 frames after Killer Bee "turns" into Hammer. Whereas the invincibility in Vanilla happened on the very first frame Hammer came out (which was 5 frames after Killer Bee)

Maybe I'm not seeing it the way you are, if you care to further explain.

The change log said he had more invincibility frames on start up, but less IF overall. Unless the change log lied.

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2011/...capcom-3-official-changelog-capcom-side-only/

 

[Red Arremer]

Quote from the Bible:

The Hammer has frames 11-20 invincible (from 4-19)

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

The change log said he had more invincibility frames on start up, but less IF overall. Unless the change log lied.

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2011/...capcom-3-official-changelog-capcom-side-only/

Oh, from my experience (logged in about 500 or so matches at casuals and tourneys) with Dante I can say that in no way does Hammer have invincibility on start up. Basically, in Vanilla Hammer was 100% invincible. In Ultimate, it's only invincible at the back end, so 50%. It's open for punishment at the first 50%.

So, before - Hammer can be used as Dante's get off me move if he's getting pressured in the corner. He really can't use it for those purposes now. Which really makes Dante weak when you have him pinned in the corner. The only thing us Dante players are looking for is a push back into reverb shock - fireworks. In Vanilla, I'd just throw out random Hammer's and they'd work. Or, if guarded you have enough time to square-box dash into air M or H for cross up. Which resolves the problem. Now, this problem, isn't so resolved easily in Ultimate.

 

[Kadey]

I'd say blocking is the most important thing in this game. Anybody with high level blocking should be considered a god with all the crazy stuff happening in this game.

 

[Trey]

Quote from the Bible:

Then so it is. I retract my point about the Hammer.

Oh, from my experience (logged in about 500 or so matches at casuals and tourneys) with Dante I can say that in no way does Hammer have invincibility on start up. Basically, in Vanilla Hammer was 100% invincible. In Ultimate, it's only invincible at the back end, so 50%. It's open for punishment at the first 50%.

So, before - Hammer can be used as Dante's get off me move if he's getting pressured in the corner. He really can't use it for those purposes now. Which really makes Dante weak when you have him pinned in the corner. The only thing us Dante players are looking for is a push back into reverb shock - fireworks. In Vanilla, I'd just throw out random Hammer's and they'd work. Or, if guarded you have enough time to square-box dash into air M or H for cross up. Which resolves the problem. Now, this problem, isn't so resolved easily in Ultimate.

Apparently the change log lied. I am shamed.

However, Dante really shouldn't let anyone in on him in the first place, so to have a pure rejection move didn't make sense. If he's not rushing down, Dante should be spacing in order to begin some offense. If the opponent gets in, and gets you into the corner, they earned their advantage. I would have to agree with Capcom that having Hammer as it was wasn't in the game's best interest from a competitive standpoint, and I still maintain Dante didn't suffer overmuch from the nerf.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Quote from the Bible:

In Vanilla it was 4-19, hm I thought it was 5-19. But the good book says that so, I'll take it.

 

[enzo_gt]

I'd say blocking is the most important thing in this game. Anybody with high level blocking should be considered a god with all the crazy stuff happening in this game.

Most definitely. I can't block for shit. Patience is also a virtue.