lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Yeah. What really helped me early on was focusing on when to block up-back and when not to. Sometimes when you try to up-back block you end up just guarding-standing, causing you to get hit with lows.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT| of 9 Years Urley
- Thread starter enzo_gt
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Yeah. What really helped me early on was focusing on when to block up-back and when not to. Sometimes when you try to up-back block you end up just guarding-standing, causing you to get hit with lows.
The Wesker meta is simple. He gets bodied by like 3 characters above him IF the person controlling them plays better than the Wesker player. The rest of the characters, Wesker can get around with choice assists like Plasma Beam and Vajra making unfavorable match ups into favorable match ups. He has clutch close ranged anti-air moves meaning he can some what deal with tri-dashers, his fast projectile means he can lame out lame characters like Ghost Rider or any one with a bit hit box and his teleport/air grab/command throw game means he can open up the opponent rather easily. His footsie playstyle is one of the best in the game because everything he does is relatively safe and his cr.M is untouchable by anyone who doesn't have sword normals. His health is effectively "above" average in the game because if you actually take the sum total average of all the characters in the game it's actually closer to 900K and the tournament staples characters are mostly all below 1 million. His OTG low hitting assist still remains the staple OTG of the game. His anchor game is one of the best in UMVC3 because of how quickly he kills opponents in it, it truly strikes fear in the opponent when they see Wesker at last spot despite not even being a character that should be an anchor character. Then you finally wrap it up by realizing that Wesker has the availability of all his tools at the lowest possible execution requirement in the game meaning there is no need to learn actual hit confirms with him or be mindful of approaches/footsies/pressure or even learn his advance combos because meterless baby combos with Wesker do 600K damage (while other characters can possibly do that much it's at an extremely higher execution cost).
Yes... Wesker may not have the highest damage, the best ranged normals, the best mobility, the best assist, the best anchor game, the best mix ups, the best zoning game, the best pressure... but I'll be damned if he isn't top 5 in all of them. There are very few characters in the game who have as much going for them as Wesker. The real concern of the meta is that those characters that actually do well against Wesker are amongst the lesser played characters in the game because they have other match ups to worry about. Morrigan might do well against Wesker 1 on 1, so can X-23 but their margin to mess up is WAY less than Wesker's and the existence of assists make it so that Wesker can cover up many of his bad match ups.
Now if you want to analyze system changes and what the new roster brought to the table compared to the previous game, here is a run down:
Stuff that benefited Wesker due to system changes/roster changes:
*Most top characters getting nerfed in hit stun scaling and damage indirectly buffs Wesker. Dante ALWAYS did better damage than Wesker, now Wesker does more damage than Dante on average. Wesker was one of the very few characters in the top tier who got his damage buffed substantially. Even random Phantom Dance does so much more damage now it's stupid.
*Nerfed X factor didn't impact Wesker much at all. The fact that people don't use LVL1 much anymore means they are more reliant on LVL3 XF. When Wesker has an inherent passive bonus on him that strengthens his anchor game... he basically overrides any incremental decrease in his X factor bonuses from vanilla. In glasses off XFLVL3, he has the same bonuses as he had in vanilla which were absolutely bonkers. Most other characters got their XF bonuses nerfed.
*Removal of DHC glitch benefits Wesker more than it hurts him. DHC glitch allowed lower health characters to completely dominate higher health characters because with 2 bars you could kill any character in the game. This isn't the case anymore as now you have to actually perform combos to kill higher health characters or spend a lot of meter. Wesker still has enough health where he can survive BnBs and even some DHCs, meaning his overall survivability in this game is more or less the same as before.
*Addition of Vajra assist is an unbelievable buff to Wesker. Before the characters that gave Wesker trouble were those that could dominate the air space and could mount an offense from a space where Wesker had a hard time touching. Not anymore because Vajra allows Wesker to touch that portion of the screen which he couldn't AND if that isn't enough every time Vajra connects Wesker gets a full combo off of it.
Stuff that didn't benefit Wesker:
*Meter gain nerf affects Wesker as he was one of the primary battery character in vanilla. This mostly impacts his synergy with Phoenix because not only does he have less health for meter tanking, builds less meter but he also can't use his glasses buff because he has to save meter for Phoenix. On top of this, Phoenix herself is nerfed.
*Removal of Tron Gustaff and nerf to Haggar assist nerfs Wesker. Haggar assist is still good but no more hard knockdown means that Haggar + Wesker combo isn't as deadly as before. The nerf to GTFO assist is a nerf to Wesker because this was his way of dealing with tight rushdown characters like Wolverine and X-23.
*Addition of a character like Firebrand nerfs Wesker because this is one of those characters that Wesker has trouble with "on paper". It's still going to take a while before Firebrands start appearing more often in tournaments and until people learn the match ups well. Until that happens, Weskers are still going to run over Firebrands especially with the Vajra assist that allows them to mitigate the match up against Firebrand.
There is probably a bunch of other stuff I am missing but this is the general gist of it. It is safe to say that until people start picking characters like Zero more often in tournaments, Wesker is going to run rampant and win stuff. Wesker at this point is an extremely safe and easy pick in tournaments. He is easily the most picked character in tournaments as of now and will continue to be this way for the near future.
It is completely justified to ask for removal of the sunglasses mechanic. It's not even a "tool" that is being removed. Phantom Dance also should be fixed.
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
Key is not to be there when the hit comes in ;p
I've learned something today.
However, wouldn't the same assists that cover Wesker's deficiencies also benefit the characters contending with him? And the loss of Haggar into maximum damage is a blow that you rightly have given credit to, but one that is seemingly understated. That was Wesker's staple "up off me" option, which created offense almost for free at the same time. It's still present, but much more prone to punishment. Haggar himself got some buffs to become a more viable character, though.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Wait, what did they change to Phantom Dance? Are people referring to how it randomly crosses up midway through?
Does more damage if I'm not mistaken.
biosnake20
Member
Thats why sanford should play this game more. He is ridiculous when it comes to blocking in mvc3.
Karsticles
Member
What defines a top XF3 character is their likelihood of destroying entire teams. Hence Akuma, Phoenix, Felicia, Wesker, etc. are top tier anchors. Sentinel is not on par with any of those.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Too bad there aren't any Icons to unlock.
Red Arremer
Member
I wish the vanilla titles would port over to Ultimate. :<
I want "Needs a Hug" back.
I want "Needs a Hug" back.
It still crosses up like it did in vanilla only now if someone randomly does it to you it can do up to 400K damage and buffs up Wesker. The 400K damage is because as soon as he activates the hyper he gets a 15% damage boost AND Phantom Dance gets an additional damage boost from mashing. I also think it crosses up more but that's just me.
I have had matches lost to random Phantom Dance cross ups because of this nonsense. Before it didn't nearly do as much damage raw. Now it's like Capcom WANTS people to use that hyper randomly because if they are blocking they can get randomly crossed up and even if they don't... you get a damage/speed buff.
Haggar was lost but Vajra was gained. Assist coverage works both ways so if and when assist coverage causes match ups to be 5/5 on perfect execution... Wesker wins out because he has the easiest execution out there. Wesker wins a ton of match ups in live matches despite some being against his favor.
http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/b/301393727 <-- Solid Thor/MODOK/Joe play by RoyalFlush at 1:20:00 and up. There should be another one of his matches later on in the same archive part. Thor hit Zero with that CLASSIC XFC Mighty Hurricane!
you have to be good at blocking as a zoner or else you will get blown up the minute they get in.
I used to make jokes all the time back in my Halo 3 days about how the same two dots in Africa stay lit no matter what time I got on to play.
Axis
Member
launch, h xx fly, H xx unfly, H as you're falling...it was pretty easy to get that part but that's as far as i went with it lol
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Depends on when you first hit the first H after launch. If the second H misses because they were out of range you did the first H too late/ too high up. If the second H misses because it whiffs right before you land you did it too early.
Clock and Marlin actually playing now.
EDIT: YOU GOT MOTHERFUCKING WASHED-UP OLD VETERANS LIKE CLOCKW0RK. SHADY K.
Ahahaha, good shit JaHa.
I believe Iron Man's red and silver armor must be used. He shows up in the cartoon like that in space once.
Oh, and didn't Marvel say they added Nova and Rocket Raccoon in the game cause they'll show up in season 2 of the series? Perhaps it's one of their costumes.
BTW I think you meant Hulk 5, and not Hulk 6 for Days of the Future Past.
toastyToast
Member
I'm on the lookout for a new monitor to play Marvel. The planets pretty much have to align to get a session in with where the PS3 is at now.
Any recommendations?
Any recommendations?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
I think I'm gonna like Spencer.
Today I was working on practicing bold cancelling on Dante's combos. This is new to me and it's frustrating getting it like 20 times in a row when I first try it, then suddenly my hands and mind just can't coordinate the series anymore and I only get it every so often.
I know all I need is repetition but I'd like to know if this type of situation happens to everyone else.
I know all I need is repetition but I'd like to know if this type of situation happens to everyone else.
devastatorprime
Member
I was wondering if there is anyone here that knows how and is willing to extract some images from the game? I've been thinking about it alot ever since the rips for the victory poses popped up. It would be awesome if the character select/vs screen images could be extracted.
eg:
The character art for the returning characters would be nice as well since capcom has no intention to release them. Also, I got Ryu's ending a few days ago and the art for his ending is just epic. It would make for the perfect stick art. I'd be eternally grateful if anyone could help out in anyway.
eg:
The character art for the returning characters would be nice as well since capcom has no intention to release them. Also, I got Ryu's ending a few days ago and the art for his ending is just epic. It would make for the perfect stick art. I'd be eternally grateful if anyone could help out in anyway.
shaowebb
Member
Just thought I'd pop in to say that this week I'll be finishing off all the breakdowns of how those surveys you guys did turned out on other areas. My teacher demanded I cut things down a LOT for classroom purposes because I pretty much overwhelmed her with raw data. She couldn't handle it I guess...lol.
Anyhow I'll post the stuff on top assists you guys voted for, top favorited cast, and that other stuff. I'll tell you when it goes up so we can all look at those results. Thanks again for everything guys. Wish I had more time to play, but hey who knows. Maybe all this work I'm doing outside of gaming will get me a position at Capcom or something in a year. After all, its one of the publishers whose studios I'll be applying at around graduation. Here's hoping I make it. Where ever I end up, thanks for teaching me so much about this game and fighters in general.
Anyhow I'll post the stuff on top assists you guys voted for, top favorited cast, and that other stuff. I'll tell you when it goes up so we can all look at those results. Thanks again for everything guys. Wish I had more time to play, but hey who knows. Maybe all this work I'm doing outside of gaming will get me a position at Capcom or something in a year. After all, its one of the publishers whose studios I'll be applying at around graduation. Here's hoping I make it. Where ever I end up, thanks for teaching me so much about this game and fighters in general.
Axis
Member
happened to me earlier but i took a 20 minute break and was able to do it consistently again. it's fun practice ^_^
what method are you using? i'm inputting bold cancel as soon as the stinger is starting up and it gives me a really long buffer window for volcano...that window is so huge lol wtf
FindMyFarms
Member
Hey guys, I think it would be fun if we did a "Rate my Team" thing. Here's mine!
1 - Storm - whirlwind assist
2 - Wolverine - Berserker barrage
3 - Sentinel - drones
Pros - Storm gets crossup opportunities with wolverine assist, and damn near unblockable mixups off people locked down under drones. Wolverine gets crossups off drones and whirlwind, and I i have yet to get my whirlwind assist setup to berserker slash crossup blocked. Team synergy is decent. I can otg with a team super that does 600k+ damage (hail storm, berserker barrage super, and sent drones, stomr and barrage hold em in place so 9/11 of the drones hit, ouch!)
Cons - No legit otg assist means i have to rely on a storm that's alive and the necessary meter to do any real damage off a throw. Most of the time I have to just go into mixup off a throw which I'm ok with, since i land my hit majority of the times, but having something beefy would be nice. If storm is dead then I have a hard time dealing with keep away characters. My life total is low, so I have to play pretty tight since all 3 of my characters die in one combo.
1 - Storm - whirlwind assist
2 - Wolverine - Berserker barrage
3 - Sentinel - drones
Pros - Storm gets crossup opportunities with wolverine assist, and damn near unblockable mixups off people locked down under drones. Wolverine gets crossups off drones and whirlwind, and I i have yet to get my whirlwind assist setup to berserker slash crossup blocked. Team synergy is decent. I can otg with a team super that does 600k+ damage (hail storm, berserker barrage super, and sent drones, stomr and barrage hold em in place so 9/11 of the drones hit, ouch!)
Cons - No legit otg assist means i have to rely on a storm that's alive and the necessary meter to do any real damage off a throw. Most of the time I have to just go into mixup off a throw which I'm ok with, since i land my hit majority of the times, but having something beefy would be nice. If storm is dead then I have a hard time dealing with keep away characters. My life total is low, so I have to play pretty tight since all 3 of my characters die in one combo.
i couldn't do it that well the first day i tried it, but the next time i had a go it was easy. its not a motion you use much for other games so it'd seem weird at first, but its really simple after a while.
toastyToast
Member
Thanks. Think I'll go with the Dell U2312HM
FindMyFarms
Member
Nova issue #22
biosnake20
Member
GOD DAMN jaha is goin in on marlins stream. Hopefully top brady isnt watching lol
Clockwork playing Jill and MarlinPie the Sparda twins
FindmyFarms: Switch order to Wolverine on point. Wolverine can DHC all his hypers into Hailstorm. Storm on 2nd is just too good. Use Whirlwind to get in, Drones to mix up with. You lack an assist to combo off of throws so you basically need to burn X factor when you throw with Wolverine, kill the characters and mix up the incoming character. When you see someone call out an assist, Berserker Charge -> Hailstorm (and into Drones as well if you have another meter) and turn on X Factor for easy mode kills.
FindmyFarms: Switch order to Wolverine on point. Wolverine can DHC all his hypers into Hailstorm. Storm on 2nd is just too good. Use Whirlwind to get in, Drones to mix up with. You lack an assist to combo off of throws so you basically need to burn X factor when you throw with Wolverine, kill the characters and mix up the incoming character. When you see someone call out an assist, Berserker Charge -> Hailstorm (and into Drones as well if you have another meter) and turn on X Factor for easy mode kills.
At this point, the only people who do not need Wesker nerfs must be playing online with Weskers, chilling out, sipping wine, and just spamming Phantom Dance 3-4 times on a Wesker set at 3rd place, hoping it randomly crosses the opponent up.
And guess what. It does.
People sitting on top-tier chars and not wanting it to get nerfed should be called something like having a Yun-Syndrome. Or 3S illness. Or whatever
Wesker needs no good execution, does insane damage, literally has random shit, has still one of the best OTG's in the game, has high health - and this game does not really need to keep chars that encourage this mindless "playing it safe" mentality.
And guess what. It does.
People sitting on top-tier chars and not wanting it to get nerfed should be called something like having a Yun-Syndrome. Or 3S illness. Or whatever
Wesker needs no good execution, does insane damage, literally has random shit, has still one of the best OTG's in the game, has high health - and this game does not really need to keep chars that encourage this mindless "playing it safe" mentality.Despite having vanilla since day one, I probably played it less than 10 times total. As a result I didn't really learn anybody except for Hulk, Dormammu and a bit of Shuma. Though earlier playing UMvC3 I did put Sentinel on my team and he worked pretty well as an assist. I'm just terrible with him on point. When I get the game I hope I can get some time in the lab and work on some stuff.
Karsticles
Member
This entire post is worth quoting, though I don't feel as though Firebrand finds Wesker to be a good matchup - the range on Wesker's normals is really brutal.
Personally, I'd be fine with all of the following nerfs to Wesker, and he'd STILL be a top 10 character:
1) No command grab.
2) No glasses mechanic (or inverse it; glasses break as he takes damage, Phantom Dance puts them back on)
3) Phantom Dance no longer randomly crosses up.
4) Launcher is -10 on block (this should apply to everyone.
Professor Beef
Banned
I agree 100% with 2, 3 and 4.
If 1 is taken out Wesker loses a big portion of why he is a major threat. It's such a powerful tool in his arsenal and it's one of those things that will keep him top for a long duration of his tournament career. His command throw game makes his air throw game stronger because you have to always be in the air against Wesker due to the threat of his command throw.
A better way to reduce the impact of his command throw game is to make the command throws like 7, 5 and 3 frames with added recovery on all of them. The command throws recover way too fast adding into the whole "Wesker is safe" nonsense. The 1 frame H Mustang Kick leads to some complete BS that I have seen over my course with the game. It's that one thing that made Combofiend hold up his head in disgust and go on a salty rant.
I just tuned into that stream and Champ is using Ghost Rider/Sentinel/Dormammu like he should be.
If 1 is taken out Wesker loses a big portion of why he is a major threat. It's such a powerful tool in his arsenal and it's one of those things that will keep him top for a long duration of his tournament career. His command throw game makes his air throw game stronger because you have to always be in the air against Wesker due to the threat of his command throw.
A better way to reduce the impact of his command throw game is to make the command throws like 7, 5 and 3 frames with added recovery on all of them. The command throws recover way too fast adding into the whole "Wesker is safe" nonsense. The 1 frame H Mustang Kick leads to some complete BS that I have seen over my course with the game. It's that one thing that made Combofiend hold up his head in disgust and go on a salty rant.
I just tuned into that stream and Champ is using Ghost Rider/Sentinel/Dormammu like he should be.
Professor Beef
Banned
The previous match, he was using Ghost Rider/Sent/Phoenix, so he picked a good time to make me look dumb.
EDIT: Wow, Dorm st.m to kill Doom's plasma beam into Chaotic Flame for the happy birthday.
This stream, my god. Craziest Marvel matches I've seen in a while.
bluddtheersty
Member
Thanks for pointing out the note worthy AAs for Vergil.Surprisingly i have been playing against a lot of jump-happy S mashing people with either Nemesis or Sentinel -.-
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