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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT| of 9 Years Urley

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K

Karsticles

Member
Ultimoo said:
you were so hype for him though!
Click to expand...
Yeah, and I really do love the character conceptually. It's another team ruined by the complete lack of a good Dormammu assist. Firebrand has serious problems solo against characters with good range on their normals, and I feel as though I'm fluttering about with desperation, trying to get a lucky hit in against the likes of Dante, Taskmaster, Vergil, and Wesker, which are exactly the kinds of characters Firebrand is supposed to be killing for Dormammu (well, not Taskmaster, he's pretty free to Dormammu). He also doesn't do so well against zoning.

Keep in mind that all of these problems are easily rectified by giving Firebrand a good horizontal projectile assist like Aim Master L. But that would be destroying the core of my team, which is Dormammu/Morrigan - I love this combination more than anything else I have found in this game, and I have never been happier with Dormammu. Thus, Firebrand has to go, most unfortunately.

In remorse, I went back to Phoenix on point last night, and had a wonderful evening of OCVing people with her still, or, of course, the opposite case, which is her dying within the first 3 seconds and then Dormammu cleaning house. I had a blast, but Phoenix is a worse choice than Firebrand - she's just more fun, because I never get that feeling of desperation I do with Firebrand, that "let me in let me in!" thought never occurs to me.

So, I've been working on a small list of characters that:
1) Make good use of excess meter.
2) Can do reasonably well on point without assists.
3) I actually want to play, because they're fun.

3) is actually the most important; Taskmaster could be my point character, but my god is he boring to use. I'm leaning toward Super-Skrull, who is a blast to play as (even more fun than Dormammu, IMO), and at least fits 1).
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
Karsticles said:
All of his stuff is unsafe...all of it. He has one move in his entire moveset that isn't negative on block, and that's s.H.
Click to expand...

Well, Skrull isn't supposed to go in and hump the opponent, he's more of a punisher. His mobility and ability to punish well on reaction helps him a lot. And he's godlike with X-Factor. His assists are kinda meh, though... I like using Orbital Grudge for its lockdown properties tho.
 
C

crimsonspider89

Banned
Karst, you need to use Taskmaster. So what if he is boring, he has great normals to go toe to toe with the other sword users.

He has plenty of health and does great damage which leads to more meter for Dormmy.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Red Arremer said:
Well, Skrull isn't supposed to go in and hump the opponent, he's more of a punisher. His mobility and ability to punish well on reaction helps him a lot. And he's godlike with X-Factor. His assists are kinda meh, though... I like using Orbital Grudge for its lockdown properties tho.
Click to expand...
Orbital Grudge was hugely nerfed, unfortunately, and it's hard as heck to combo off of now with my characters. Skrull doesn't really punish, he guesses. Most of the stuff in this game is too safe to punish with anything but a beam. He's more like Storm - you just throw out Ice Storm sometimes and hope it kills something.

crimsonspider89 said:
Karst, you need to use Taskmaster. So what if he is boring, he has great normals to go toe to toe with the other sword users.

He has plenty of health and does great damage which leads to more meter for Dormmy.
Click to expand...
I went 5-0 with him against someone and then stopped because it was so boring I wanted to do something else with my time. If the game's not fun, it's not worth playing.
 
N

Neki

Member
Karsticles said:
Yeah, and I really do love the character conceptually. It's another team ruined by the complete lack of a good Dormammu assist. Firebrand has serious problems solo against characters with good range on their normals, and I feel as though I'm fluttering about with desperation, trying to get a lucky hit in against the likes of Dante, Taskmaster, Vergil, and Wesker, which are exactly the kinds of characters Firebrand is supposed to be killing for Dormammu (well, not Taskmaster, he's pretty free to Dormammu). He also doesn't do so well against zoning.

Keep in mind that all of these problems are easily rectified by giving Firebrand a good horizontal projectile assist like Aim Master L. But that would be destroying the core of my team, which is Dormammu/Morrigan - I love this combination more than anything else I have found in this game, and I have never been happier with Dormammu. Thus, Firebrand has to go, most unfortunately.

In remorse, I went back to Phoenix on point last night, and had a wonderful evening of OCVing people with her still, or, of course, the opposite case, which is her dying within the first 3 seconds and then Dormammu cleaning house. I had a blast, but Phoenix is a worse choice than Firebrand - she's just more fun, because I never get that feeling of desperation I do with Firebrand, that "let me in let me in!" thought never occurs to me.

So, I've been working on a small list of characters that:
1) Make good use of excess meter.
2) Can do reasonably well on point without assists.
3) I actually want to play, because they're fun.

3) is actually the most important; Taskmaster could be my point character, but my god is he boring to use. I'm leaning toward Super-Skrull, who is a blast to play as (even more fun than Dormammu, IMO), and at least fits 1).
Click to expand...

sounds like you w ant some nova.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Ultimoo said:
sounds like you w ant some nova.
Click to expand...
Nova's really boring, too.

What makes a character fun for me is that he/she involves zoning and yomi. Nova definitely involves zoning, but there's no yomi. Despite having a lot of options, he's an incredibly straightforward character, which is why everyone is doing so well with him this early.

Plus I hate the character - he sounds like a douche.
 
C

crimsonspider89

Banned
Just trying to capture the attitude he had from the Annihilation saga. Got a little angry. Usually all joke and quips and more like how he talked to Joe.

You SURE you don't want to use Strange????????

Zoning and Yomi are pretty much what he is.

You could try Rocket Raccoon as well.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Dr. Strange is also very linear.

1) Lay crap out.
2) Teleport and hope it crosses up!

Didn't I just summarize the entire character?

Phoenix is much more fun.
 
C

crimsonspider89

Banned
Yeah, which is yomi and zoning to the point.

Zoning is space control and Yomi is predicting what your opponent will do.

You use the projectiles/graces to control the space and try to guess which way the opponent will block or what the opponent will do.

Yeah Phoenix goes there.

Have you tried Rocket yet?

TBH there aren't that many characters who do both yomi and zoning gameplans.
 
I

ihearthawthats

Banned
Red Arremer said:
Strange's super is 11 frames, not 1. :)
Click to expand...
i don't own a bible nor play strange. people have been saying its 1-frame after superfreeze on streams.

kartisticles said:
All of his stuff is unsafe...all of it. He has one move in his entire moveset that isn't negative on block, and that's s.H.
Click to expand...
negative on block on paper isn't quite the same as unsafe in practice. he works at a range where you can't really punish any of it unless he's being blatently wreckless with them.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Karsticles said:
Dr. Strange is also very linear.

1) Lay crap out.
2) Teleport and hope it crosses up!

Didn't I just summarize the entire character?

Phoenix is much more fun.
Click to expand...
TBH, you could break down pretty much every character in the game in the same reductionist way, so I'm not seeing the validity in this sort of blanket argument.
 
I

ihearthawthats

Banned
enzo_gt said:
TBH, you could break down pretty much every character in the game in the same reductionist way, so I'm not seeing the validity in this sort of blanket argument.
Click to expand...
lol. lets play guess who these characters are.

dive kick dive kick dive kick.

foot dive. foot dive. foot dive.

power of the power of the power of the.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
crimsonspider89 said:
Have you tried Rocket yet?

TBH there aren't that many characters who do both yomi and zoning gameplans.
Click to expand...

Rocket is surprisingly bad with zoning, tbh. His projectiles are too slow and/or not durable enough to win a firefight. He's a really weird mix-up character, and he doesn't really have much use for meter, to be honest.
He's worth a try, though, but I don't think he's what Karst is looking for.
 
D

Diablohead

Member
I watch streams more then I have played but damn son some of these long combos which can kill you without much chance :( memories of earlier in the year coming back now.

I will keep practicing, if only there was less pros online under training tags due to ranks being fresh in ultimate.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Diablohead said:
I watch streams more then I have played but damn son some of these long combos which can kill you without much chance :( memories of earlier in the year coming back now.

I will keep practicing, if only there was less pros online under training tags due to ranks being fresh in ultimate.
Click to expand...
You should play with GAF. If your on 360, add the MahvelGAF tag in OP, or join on on Kadey's (almost ATM) daily lobbies to play with people. There are players of literally every skill. If you don't care much about Ranked, you can find someone that's a good sparring partner and stick with them. I drop the most basic of combos yet I still have a few people I enjoy playing with, and have a few people slightly above my skill level that I play with as well to help me evolve, get better, and determine my weaknesses.

If your on the 360 tag, shoot me an invite sometime and we can get some sets in.

Also sorry Axis, you sent me a FR but my friend's list was full. You can send another, or if you want we can just hook up through the MahvelGAF tag.

biosnake20 said:
According to cross counters web site, there bar fights is being streamed by sp00ky. Interesting.
http://crosscounter.tv/home/2011/12/2/come-to-bar-fights-december-11th-in-los-angeles.html

coL.CC Mike Ross vs. FC.Jago
coL.CC.Combofiend vs. MCZ.MRN.Marn
Box|Viscant vs. EG.fLoE
Fanatiq vs. BT|Clockw0rk
SHGLBMX vs. Steinmania ($500 Beyond Gaming match)
Click to expand...
I'm sorry.. but Floe doesn't stand a chance. Otherwise, this should be hype.
 
C

crimsonspider89

Banned
Use the traps along with the burrowing to force your opponent to chase and fall into one as well as the log trap.

And burrow into spring hyper or spring hyper into floating bomb.

The spring hyper is a great move that can use excess meter to scare the opponent.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
crimsonspider89 said:
Use the traps along with the burrowing to force your opponent to chase and fall into one as well as the log trap.

And burrow into spring hyper or spring hyper into floating bomb.

The spring hyper is a great move that can use excess meter to scare the opponent.
Click to expand...

Spring hyper is quite a double edged sword, cause it can mess up your pace if it's out for a while and the momentum has changed.
 
D

Diablohead

Member
enzo_gt said:
You should play with GAF. If your on 360, add the MahvelGAF tag in OP, or join on on Kadey's (almost ATM) daily lobbies to play with people. There are players of literally every skill. If you don't care much about Ranked, you can find someone that's a good sparring partner and stick with them. I drop the most basic of combos yet I still have a few people I enjoy playing with, and have a few people slightly above my skill level that I play with as well to help me evolve, get better, and determine my weaknesses.

If your on the 360 tag, shoot me an invite sometime and we can get some sets in.
Click to expand...

Will do so, always fun to play with gaf
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
crimsonspider89 said:
Actually Combo has been training Mike Ross recently.

So who knows how Mike Ross may play.
Click to expand...
What's really weird is that the nerves get to Mike Ross in MvC3 and that's what his downfall in most of his matches, but in AE he has fucking nerves of STEEL. You can't mentally guard break Ross in AE.
 
T

The Abominable Snowman

Member
Wesker is more prevalent in uMVC3 than phoenix in Vanilla. Watching NEC, I've seen more Wesker come backs and more Weskers on anchor than ANY tournament... and it's always the same combos and setups. I have never loathed a character more. Even Phoenix was more fun to play with/against.
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
Yeah Firebrand really needs a Horizontal assist, I have two arthur and task right now, but I might swap out task for someone a bit more solid later.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
crimsonspider89 said:
Yeah, which is yomi and zoning to the point.

Zoning is space control and Yomi is predicting what your opponent will do.

You use the projectiles/graces to control the space and try to guess which way the opponent will block or what the opponent will do.

Yeah Phoenix goes there.

Have you tried Rocket yet?

TBH there aren't that many characters who do both yomi and zoning gameplans.
Click to expand...
You don't guess which way your opponent will block; your opponent guesses which way to block. It's yomi on their part - no matter what, Dr. Strange still does the same setup and routine.

On the note of RR, I haven't given him much time, and it's an idea worth considering.

Red Arremer said:
Have you thought of Doom or Cap before, Karst? Maybe Hawkeye.
Click to expand...
The only thing about Doom, as much as I love him, is that he can't do much with meter unless he's comboing. It's like...why get 5 bars of meter for Dr. Doom with Morrigan? Photon Array spam?

ihearthawthats said:
you forgot spam his 1-frame super.
Click to expand...
With Dark Harmonizer, that would go without saying! ;-) It's actually the one thing that makes Dr. Strange somewhat appealing to me. But his lack of mobility really kills him for me...and he's mortal enemies with Dormammu, so it feels wrong to use him.

enzo_gt said:
TBH, you could break down pretty much every character in the game in the same reductionist way, so I'm not seeing the validity in this sort of blanket argument.
Click to expand...
No, you can't. Dormammu is a perfect example of this at full screen:
1) Dark Hole?
2) Purification?
3) Stalking Flare?
4) Flame Carpet?
5) Dark Spell charging?
6) Dark Matter?

Each of these is fundamentally different in its risks and rewards. Every single second of Dormammu is looking at a huge toolset with mutli-application potential and deciding between those options. This is absolutely not the case with most characters. Most characters have maybe 1-2 decisions to make at full-screen, and usually the differences are of taste, not of effectiveness.

There's a huge difference between characters that make your opponent guess, and characters that make you guess. I like to do the guessing and estimating, but I also like to make my opponent always feel uncomfortable.

QisTopTier said:
Yeah Firebrand really needs a Horizontal assist, I have two arthur and task right now, but I might swap out task for someone a bit more solid later.
Click to expand...
Indeed. :-(
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
Karst, I think that Hawkeye might be your kind of character, then. He can use meter like a whore (all his supers are good, but Gimlet obviously the best), he doesn't need assists, he can do godlike zoning, he does amazing damage, his assists are pretty good, his mobility is actually quite solid...
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
The Abominable Snowman said:
Wesker is more prevalent in uMVC3 than phoenix in Vanilla. Watching NEC, I've seen more Wesker come backs and more Weskers on anchor than ANY tournament... and it's always the same combos and setups. I have never loathed a character more. Even Phoenix was more fun to play with/against.
Click to expand...
People kept taking Viscant's word too seriously and now it bites us in the ass lol.

The guy could have come exactly as he was in Vanilla and he still would've seen above average tournament use at worst. Easy Glasses, phantom dance crossups+power and SSJ4 is too godlike a combination for this game.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Red Arremer said:
Karst, I think that Hawkeye might be your kind of character, then. He can use meter like a whore (all his supers are good, but Gimlet obviously the best), he doesn't need assists, he can do godlike zoning, he does amazing damage, his assists are pretty good, his mobility is actually quite solid...
Click to expand...
It's the yomi part that's missing, though. Hawkeye is like a less interesting Deadpool. Also, in my experience, Hawkeye is keepaway, not zoning.

Edit: Plus he's a good guy, and I kind of hate playing good guys unless it's a "true" good guy, like Ryu.

And his quotes...does he ever shut up about being married?
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
Yea, well, MODOK's zoning is good, and his rushdown is surprisingly effective. He's not good with meter use, though.
Magneto's zoning is a bit on the weaker side (although he can run away like a little bitch quite well), he can work without assist, use meter alright and his rushdown is... well he's Magneto.

If anything, I think Captain America might work well with you - assists are a boon for him, but he CAN work without them (it's just a bit more difficult), Shield Slash is a surprisingly effective zoning tool, he uses meter REALLY well, and his yomi is pretty good too. Also I think he's a fucking BLAST to play.

If you're not happy with Skrull, maybe Cap is your guy!
 
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