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[ihearthawthats]

It's the yomi part that's missing, though. Hawkeye is like a less interesting Deadpool. Also, in my experience, Hawkeye is keepaway, not zoning.

Edit: Plus he's a good guy, and I kind of hate playing good guys unless it's a "true" good guy, like Ryu.

hawkeye has better normals/specials and a better throw game. his yomi is his ability to basically beat any button the opponent presses, or throw them if they don't press a button.

we're like the opposite; i hate playing bad guys.

also hawkeye requires you to pay attention to what the opponent is doing and react accordingly. deadpool has great mixups, but its easy to get stuck on auto-pilot mode with him. definitely not less interesting for me at least, although i find them both fun.

 

[Professor Beef]

It's the yomi part that's missing, though. Hawkeye is like a less interesting Deadpool. Also, in my experience, Hawkeye is keepaway, not zoning.

Edit: Plus he's a good guy, and I kind of hate playing good guys unless it's a "true" good guy, like Ryu.

And his quotes...does he ever shut up about being married?

Hawkeye talks about being married? News to me.

 

[Ken]

Hawkeye talks about being married? News to me.

Doesn't one of his win quotes mention Bobbi (his ex-wife it looks like) and something about keeping his temper in check.

 

[Razor210]

Yeah, and I really do love the character conceptually. It's another team ruined by the complete lack of a good Dormammu assist. Firebrand has serious problems solo against characters with good range on their normals, and I feel as though I'm fluttering about with desperation, trying to get a lucky hit in against the likes of Dante, Taskmaster, Vergil, and Wesker, which are exactly the kinds of characters Firebrand is supposed to be killing for Dormammu (well, not Taskmaster, he's pretty free to Dormammu). He also doesn't do so well against zoning.

Keep in mind that all of these problems are easily rectified by giving Firebrand a good horizontal projectile assist like Aim Master L. But that would be destroying the core of my team, which is Dormammu/Morrigan - I love this combination more than anything else I have found in this game, and I have never been happier with Dormammu. Thus, Firebrand has to go, most unfortunately.

In remorse, I went back to Phoenix on point last night, and had a wonderful evening of OCVing people with her still, or, of course, the opposite case, which is her dying within the first 3 seconds and then Dormammu cleaning house. I had a blast, but Phoenix is a worse choice than Firebrand - she's just more fun, because I never get that feeling of desperation I do with Firebrand, that "let me in let me in!" thought never occurs to me.

So, I've been working on a small list of characters that:
1) Make good use of excess meter.
2) Can do reasonably well on point without assists.
3) I actually want to play, because they're fun.

3) is actually the most important; Taskmaster could be my point character, but my god is he boring to use. I'm leaning toward Super-Skrull, who is a blast to play as (even more fun than Dormammu, IMO), and at least fits 1).

...

...

AIM OF HAWKEYE SHIELD SKILLS AIM OF HAWKEYE MIGHTY SWING I SEE YOU

 

[Red Arremer]

Doesn't one of his win quotes mention Bobbi (his ex-wife it looks like) and something about keeping his temper in check.

Yea, that's Mockinbird. I believe they're still together though.

 

[Crocodile]

Edit: Plus he's a good guy, and I kind of hate playing good guys unless it's a "true" good guy, like Ryu.

I have no idea what this means. What does this mean?

 

[Red Arremer]

I have no idea what this means. What does this mean?

I guess he means he doesn't like guys who're jerks personality-wise, even though they're good guys. That's at least how I understand it, I could be wrong, though.

 

[ihearthawthats]

I have no idea what this means. What does this mean?

he beats his wife.

 

[QisTopTier]

Fuck it Karst, just pick up Chris. DO IT

 

[Karsticles]

Yea, well, MODOK's zoning is good, and his rushdown is surprisingly effective. He's not good with meter use, though.
Magneto's zoning is a bit on the weaker side (although he can run away like a little bitch quite well), he can work without assist, use meter alright and his rushdown is... well he's Magneto.

If anything, I think Captain America might work well with you - assists are a boon for him, but he CAN work without them (it's just a bit more difficult), Shield Slash is a surprisingly effective zoning tool, he uses meter REALLY well, and his yomi is pretty good too. Also I think he's a fucking BLAST to play.

If you're not happy with Skrull, maybe Cap is your guy!

I think we have different tastes in characters, haha. If I were going to play Captain America, I would back him with something that lets me do random Charging Stars at any time to make them safe! I don't see what he would do with excess meter besides lots of random stuff. Magneto would have way more problems on point without assists than a lot of the characters we're talking about.

hawkeye has better normals/specials and a better throw game. his yomi is his ability to basically beat any button the opponent presses, or throw them if they don't press a button.

we're like the opposite; i hate playing bad guys.

also hawkeye requires you to pay attention to what the opponent is doing and react accordingly. deadpool has great mixups, but its easy to get stuck on auto-pilot mode with him. definitely not less interesting for me at least, although i find them both fun.

How is Hawkeye less auto-pilot than Deadpool? I don't think Hawkeye requires good yomi, but rather good reaction times - I think there's a strong difference between the two. I like characters that require both, though. I would love to abuse Gimlet.

Hawkeye talks about being married? News to me.

Maybe it's just a unique quote against Morrigan? He says something like "Sorry, but I'm married, blahblahblahblah." Then he talks about his temper, which I think is a generic quote.

I have no idea what this means. What does this mean?

Ryu is good in the spiritual sense - he follows his own path and does his own thing, and comes to a personal understanding of goodness through internal phenomena. Most "good guys" are just cops with funny costumes, and instead of hunting down criminals they hunt down villains. I find that sort of "good guy" difficult to relate to, but not the Ryu sort.

Fuck it Karst, just pick up Chris. DO IT

Oh hell no. That's like everything I hate about a character wrapped up in one. :-O

 

[QisTopTier]

Oh hell no. That's like everything I hate about a character wrapped up in one. :-O

Thus I said FUCK IT hahaha

 

[Red Arremer]

I think we have different tastes in characters, haha. If I were going to play Captain America, I would back him with something that lets me do random Charging Stars at any time to make them safe! I don't see what he would do with excess meter besides lots of random stuff. Magneto would have way more problems on point without assists than a lot of the characters we're talking about.

(Hyper) Charging Star, obviously - it goes through a lot of shit and does insane damage, LOL.
Also, I don't think our taste in characters is that different, I do think I'm a bit more open-minded than you regarding them, though, haha. Cause aside from characters I absolutely LOATHE (i.e. Wesker or Dante), or whose playstyle I simply don't get along (e.g. Iron Fist), I like to play everyone regardless of who the character is.

It just happens that I'm more drawn to evil characters for some reason, LOL.

How about Thor? :B

 

[Professor Beef]

Maybe it's just a unique quote against Morrigan? He says something like "Sorry, but I'm married, blahblahblahblah." Then he talks about his temper, which I think is a generic quote.


Ryu is good in the spiritual sense - he follows his own path and does his own thing, and comes to a personal understanding of goodness through internal phenomena. Most "good guys" are just cops with funny costumes, and instead of hunting down criminals they hunt down villains. I find that sort of "good guy" difficult to relate to, but not the Ryu sort.

The rule of two in full effect.

And I find that straight up evil villains are boring, which is kinda why I like Akuma since he's a "Noble Demon."

 

[Face it Tiger..]

You're in For A World of Hurt 2: Return of the Multitasker!

So much tech to learn when I this game next week.

EDIT: also, follow up to his aegis counter.

I guess nobody cares for good old taskmaster?

 

[Red Arremer]

I guess nobody cares for good old taskmaster?

I'm watching NEC atm, afterwards I'll definitely check em out. Thanks for linking. <3

 

[Karsticles]

Thus I said FUCK IT hahaha

(Hyper) Charging Star, obviously - it goes through a lot of shit and does insane damage, LOL.
Also, I don't think our taste in characters is that different, I do think I'm a bit more open-minded than you regarding them, though, haha. Cause aside from characters I absolutely LOATHE (i.e. Wesker or Dante), or whose playstyle I simply don't get along (e.g. Iron Fist), I like to play everyone regardless of who the character is.

It just happens that I'm more drawn to evil characters for some reason, LOL.

How about Thor? :B

I like to play everyone too! But there's a difference between playing a character to mess around and have fun, and trying to pick a dedicated team, which is what I'm going for here.

The rule of two in full effect.

And I find that straight up evil villains are boring, which is kinda why I like Akuma since he's a "Noble Demon."

What's the rule of two?

Akuma is actually an interesting consideration for my team...hmm.

I like villains that are evil because of their nature; i.e. not a Wesker. I like beings which behave in a way which humans perceive as evil (I don't believe in evil regardless), but are really just being what they are. Succubi are a perfect example of this, as is Firebrand (hero to his species, but a dark creature to Arthur).

"OMG IM A BAD GUY SO KEWL" characters like Wesker just make me facepalm.

 

[Professor Beef]

What's the rule of two?

When people encounter two of something, they tend to over-exaggerate the amount. Examples include:

Eating two apples: "Damn, I had hella apples today."
Hitting two red lights while driving: "WTF at all these reds! You'd think I would see one green, jeez."

And so on, and so on. A friend pointed it out to me several years ago, and now I can't stop noticing it.

 

[Neki]

but he wears a trenchcoat, like vergil.

vergil is like a noble demon, amirite

 

[Professor Beef]

but he wears a trenchcoat, like vergil.

vergil is like a noble demon, amirite

I've only played DMC2. *shrug*

 

[Red Arremer]

Actually, Doom, Skrull and Magneto are not evil for the sake of evil either. They are trying to achieve genuine goals (well, Doom at least partly), just strayed off from the righteous path.

Magneto wants liberty and equality for all mutants, humanity (starting with his experiences in WW2) pushed him into hating them though, and not caring for their destruction.

Doom believes himself an amazing ruler, capable of leading the world into wealth. And if you look at Latveria - while he took over it violently, and does rule it with an iron fist, the Latverians love and worship him. It's a country with amazingly little criminality. And he cares for his people to, at least to some extent. The only evil goal he has is destroying Mr. Fantastic, and that's more because his weird sense of pride has been hurt by Richards. His third goal is getting his mother back to life, which is a goal that genuinely speaks of Doom's caring side, as well.

Skrull, he's first and foremost a soldier, wanting to fulfill his duty. If you read Annihilation, though, you can see that he wants to protect his family, first and foremost. He wants to protect the Skrull Empire, as second part, and even allies with factions like the Kree in order to fend off the threat of the Annihilation Wave. His goal is sincere and justified.

 

[ihearthawthats]

How is Hawkeye less auto-pilot than Deadpool? I don't think Hawkeye requires good yomi, but rather good reaction times - I think there's a strong difference between the two. I like characters that require both, though. I would love to abuse Gimlet.

also hawkeye requires you to pay attention to what the opponent is doing and react accordingly. deadpool has great mixups, but its easy to get stuck on auto-pilot mode with him. definitely not less interesting for me at least, although i find them both fun.

i know reactions aren't the same thing as yomi but i wasn't trying to say that. that was a seperate point from the yomi thing, in regards to him not being an interesting character.

and it's not even the fact that hawkeye requires good yomi, but just that his game does involve yomi. in fact, i think that having good yomi benefits every single character and generally every single (good) fighting game.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

Wesker is so balanced guys. Real talk. Viscant said so.

 

[Frantic]

I've only played DMC2. *shrug*

You poor, poor soul.

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

he should have done more skrull teleports amirite?

 

[QisTopTier]

Wesker is so balanced guys. Real talk. Viscant said so.

Uh didn't Viscant say Wesker was STUPID now. *listens to podcast* oh yup he did.

 

[enzo_gt]

No, you can't. Dormammu is a perfect example of this at full screen:
1) Dark Hole?
2) Purification?
3) Stalking Flare?
4) Flame Carpet?
5) Dark Spell charging?
6) Dark Matter?

Each of these is fundamentally different in its risks and rewards. Every single second of Dormammu is looking at a huge toolset with mutli-application potential and deciding between those options. This is absolutely not the case with most characters. Most characters have maybe 1-2 decisions to make at full-screen, and usually the differences are of taste, not of effectiveness.

There's a huge difference between characters that make your opponent guess, and characters that make you guess. I like to do the guessing and estimating, but I also like to make my opponent always feel uncomfortable.

So basically, for one character you choose to list all the options, and for the other, based upon early play, you completely neglect stuff such as command counters for one. Here let me do Dormammu:

1) Chuck shit to get space
2) When you have space, go for j.S or j.H (I can't recall which it is)

There, I summed up Dormammu. That pretty much uses the same assumptions you used to make your blanket statements. While I don't think Strange is the most complex character in the world either, your analysis is pretty damn reductionist. Even if you don't prefer the kind of playstyle with less tools at your disposal, which is pretty much the crux of what your saying, that doesn't really correlate to that grand summary you made for Strange. The fact that you elaborated on it anyways is evident that there's more to it than a bulleted list really.

 

[Neki]

why are we so angry in here

can't we just appreciate chris g exposing people with dark wesker

 

[enzo_gt]

why are we so angry in here

can't we just appreciate chris g exposing people with dark wesker

Those Grand Finals were so long, just like the ones at PowerUp, but still, so fucking good throughout.

Chris Jesus <3.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

I like to play everyone too! But there's a difference between playing a character to mess around and have fun, and trying to pick a dedicated team, which is what I'm going for here.


What's the rule of two?

Akuma is actually an interesting consideration for my team...hmm.

I like villains that are evil because of their nature; i.e. not a Wesker. I like beings which behave in a way which humans perceive as evil (I don't believe in evil regardless), but are really just being what they are. Succubi are a perfect example of this, as is Firebrand (hero to his species, but a dark creature to Arthur).

"OMG IM A BAD GUY SO KEWL" characters like Wesker just make me facepalm.

How is Wesker not included? His back-story is plenty fucked up. Lol

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Got blown up at a local today. I've forgotten how to call assists appropriately (happy birthday'd in 3 of my 4 losses), can't hitconfirm, mis-time every tiger knee motion, am startled whenever someone starts effectively utilizing footsies and frame traps in this game, and don't adapt to my opponents as well as they adapt to me.

Never been that angry at myself after a tournament. I have to stop playing online and dedicate an hour or more per day to training mode instead. I've picked up so many bad habits that it's just embarrassing.

 

[Neki]

why would online make you bad, lol.

 

[SolarKnight]

If the matches yesterday were any indication of the connection of his usual online matches, then no wonder it's doing him more harm than good.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

why would online make you bad, lol.

I'm conditioned to expect lag bullshit like random teleports nonstop, so I fish for that stuff in local matches and it gets me nowhere. I also have the habit of chaining things like Shield Skill into Sharp Sting on autopilot due to lag instead of waiting for a hitconfirm and going into launcher instead if they don't block it.

I don't know how Viscant, Dios X, and Wolfkrone put in so much time online without having their game suffer in some way or another.

 

[enzo_gt]

I'm conditioned to expect lag bullshit like random teleports nonstop, so I fish for that stuff in local matches and it gets me nowhere. I also have the habit of chaining things like Shield Skill into Sharp Sting on autopilot due to lag instead of waiting for a hitconfirm and going into launcher instead if they don't block it.

I don't know how Viscant, Dios X, and Wolfkrone put in so much time online without having their game suffer in some way or another.

Not to call you out cause that's not what I'm trying to say, but I think theyre past stuff like execution being an issue and use online primarily as a place for figuring out matchups and counters to specific strategies. You know, the meta. And a lot of those folk, Viscant especially, still have a local to ground themselves in and apply what they've learned where it counts.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Yeah, I know it's obvious that you have to approach the two mediums with two different mindsets, but competition in this town is so nonexistent that it's just taking me longer to adjust when I'm actually playing someone competent these days.

 

[SolarKnight]

I don't know how Viscant, Dios X, and Wolfkrone put in so much time online without having their game suffer in some way or another.

Well, for starters, maybe their matches have better connections.

Also, what enzo said too.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Well, for starters, maybe their matches have better connections.

Also, what enzo said too.

GAF lobbies are consistently worse than randoms for me as of late, for whatever reason, though online in general has never felt anything but piss poor to me in this game no matter what state I've lived in or ISP I've used.

 

[enzo_gt]

Yeah, I know it's obvious that you have to approach the two mediums with two different mindsets, but competition in this town is so nonexistent that it's just taking me longer to adjust when I'm actually playing someone competent these days.

Where are you based? I thought you were in Cali for some reason.

 

[SolarKnight]

Yeah, I've seen you mention that. You're like, cursed or something when it comes to online play o_0

 

[Neki]

too bad you can't play me, I don't random teleport!

 

[QisTopTier]

Hmm Probably gonna try Firebrand/Cap/Arthur, or Firebrand/Chris/Arthur

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Where are you based? I thought you were in Cali for some reason.

WV until this summer, AL since.

I used to live about 10 minutes away from shaowebb.

 

[enzo_gt]

WV until this summer, AL since.

I used to live about 10 minutes away from shaowebb.

Pardon my assumptions but yeah those don't sound like regular places you'd expect to find a thriving FGC. Sucks man.

I'm not serious enough to even head out to locals. I wish I could though, was gonna hit up T12 but me and my friend ended up bailing.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I at least had 2 local friends back in WV who were on my level and got together for 12 hours at a time strictly for fighting games every Saturday. One of them placed 1 spot short of getting EVO seeding points in two different majors that we traveled to together. I'm having a hard time keeping up without that luxury now.

Alabama does have a pretty good scene; just not where I live. I have to drive an hour plus to meet anyone worth playing. 2.5 hours or more if I want to get together with the real killers.

 

[SolarPowered]

That is why you don't come off as a person with "a baseless air of authority".

Most of the stuff you say makes sense and you actually put yourself out there.

 

[enzo_gt]

Makes me wonder the kind of motivation you have to had to actually dedicate yourself to this kind of thing, and the line between a hobby and something you want to do "seriously," whatever you personally define that as.

I mean, a lot of the Break Warriors and even the Next Level folk drive out one to two hours every week to get their practice in, or just to hang out with buddies even. It's the only way to get better, but it's a pretty big resource investment too. That's why sometimes I wonder how people do it, dropping money every week just to never make it back. A lot of people who have been in the scene forever that haven't made it into the black, and I suppose they just find so much pleasure in the competition alone that they don't stress too much about losing, but damn, I wonder if it does become disheartening at a point. I get pretty discouraged after only a few sets.

The economics of the FGC never quite added up for me, but it is something beautiful and worthy of the grassroots label people put on it though.

 

[Extollere]

Just got my first arcade stick, trying to get better. Not really used to this, and I'm finding it difficult to pull off moves. Hopefully it gets more natural with time.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Makes me wonder the kind of motivation you have to had to actually dedicate yourself to this kind of thing, and the line between a hobby and something you want to do "seriously," whatever you personally define that as.

I mean, a lot of the Break Warriors and even the Next Level folk drive out one to two hours every week to get their practice in, or just to hang out with buddies even. It's the only way to get better, but it's a pretty big resource investment too. That's why sometimes I wonder how people do it, dropping money every week just to never make it back. A lot of people who have been in the scene forever that haven't made it into the black, and I suppose they just find so much pleasure in the competition alone that they don't stress too much about losing, but damn, I wonder if it does become disheartening at a point. I get pretty discouraged after only a few sets.

The economics of the FGC never quite added up for me, but it is something beautiful and worthy of the grassroots label people put on it though.

It helps to be the kind of person who has a one-track mind when it comes to hobbies and videogames. I think I've mentioned in the past that I purchased no retail console games between MvC3 and UMvC3. And I just shake my head at every massive backlog thread about people who buy dozens of $1 Steam games that they never play; I can't help but wonder how they manage to enjoy their hobby at all if they're spreading themselves so thin that there's no way they can enjoy it on any more than a surface level. But that's mostly something for a different topic.

 

[corrosivefrost]

Ok, I have the game now.

But I'm so bad at it that I don't think I'll be hopping on the stream for a good long while.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Plus in info that nobody cares about, November is a bad month for me anyways because of NaNoWriMo and in unrelated drama I'm about 60/40 going to move to Alabama by the end of the year so it's been an interesting month.

WUT.