sentinel's bonuses are fine. he's still as derpy as ever, but that's Sentinel.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT| of 9 Years Urley
- Thread starter enzo_gt
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sentinel's bonuses are fine. he's still as derpy as ever, but that's Sentinel.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
arthur has like 4 infinites in xfactor, and one as long as you have meter outside of it. The fact his taunt has him saying "Still Going" is kinda awesome xD
The glasses thing has got to be one of the most unnecessary buffs ever.
I think the cancel is the worst part of the X-factor. That's where most of the bullshit comes from.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
SolarKnight
Member
No, the bs definitely comes from the huge speed and damage boost it gives.
Yeah, it's like, why did they even nerf Wesker in the first place if the were going to give him something that completely ignores the nerfs :|
SolarPowered
Member
The worst thing about it for me is how it treads into "school yard" mentatility. It's like someone remembered how Wesker would get pissed off in RE Canon and he'd beef up all of a sudden and kick your ass afterwards.
It is a step above something like Dark Phoenix revitalization and it sucks because those types of mechanics can become character specific and EXTREMELY hard to balance.
So when do they fix Hsien-Ko's gold armor transformation so that the removal of the tag makes her unstoppable(yeah, she is supposed to be nigh unstoppable and FEROCIOUS when the tag falls off in Canon)? When are they gonna make Hulk more powerful when he absorbs hits using super armor? Will Thor gain access to the stones of Norn after a certain point? Does Dante deserve to stop/slow time in Devil Trigger? Shiranui transformation?
Shit can go bananas once you start adding these mechanics to win the fight like some elementary schoolyard dream matchup. It starts feeling like Smash bros without the fun...
The problem is that he still gets to combo off gun from the other side of the stage with extra speed/damage(permanent if he doesn't use hyper)at the cost of a single bar. It's not like XF where his damage/speed bonuses disappear after fifteen-twenty seconds.
With the boosts, you know it's coming. The cancel turns your usually safe moves into death for your character.
Different strokes for different folks.
....Yes. /danteplayer
SolarKnight
Member
The cancel potentially kills one character, two if the assist gets caught, but the boosts potentially cause death to the entire team :|
Seems to me like they want to add unique powerup characteristics to as many characters as applicable, which is very Guilty Gear-ish and I'm all for it. The fact that X-Factor stacks with his glasses is stupid, not the buff in-and-of-itself.
Someone should start a DLC petition to have an option to turn off or tweak aspects of X-Factor in the Menu.
Someone should start a DLC petition to have an option to turn off or tweak aspects of X-Factor in the Menu.
cancelling leads to creative set ups and combos.
180% more damage does not lead to creative set up and combos.
cancelling lets you kill one character at most, stupid bonuses let you get ocv'd by wesker.
SolarPowered
Member
Damn, okay then...
AnkiRendan
Member
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2011/dec/05/umvc3-niitsuma-answers-questions-talks-about-patch/
"There are no plans to update this game [e.g. Vanilla to Ultimate] past its current iteration."
I want to believe it..
"There are no plans to update this game [e.g. Vanilla to Ultimate] past its current iteration."
I want to believe it..
Honestly, I think a general roman cancel mechanic would have been pretty damn godlike in this game in exchange for everything that X-Factor currently is. It probably would be even more balanced in that sense since you need to tax the player for it and they can't pop them off all herp derp during a match versus X-Factor's universal one time cancel + varying stat boosts.
LOL at the desire for Quicksilver to be in the game, as if we need any more reason for people to get Dead Sea levels of salty over DMC characters.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
You know what part of it I hate, the fact it negates guard stun.
It also occurred to me that, as everyone saw, dropping combos was the thing to do at NEC this weekend.
Wesker has some of the easiest combos in the game to perform and they haven't changed much from vanilla.
That would have also made Wesker seem much more powerful (altho I still think it's X-factor related).
Wesker has some of the easiest combos in the game to perform and they haven't changed much from vanilla.
That would have also made Wesker seem much more powerful (altho I still think it's X-factor related).
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Capcom also said they would never port Resident Evil Code Veronica off the Dreamcast.
I should probably use it more for this purpose.
I usually hold onto x-factor until I'm about to die or when I need to kill a character. probably the reason why I hate XF3, I kill two characters and I lose two characters to XF3 because I ate a random hyper, or failed to block one mix up.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
This is the worst part of x-factor by far. It means if your opponent can't counter x-factor to save themselves they'll lose their character no matter who they're facing. On top of that the player on offence will get a mix-up on the incoming character which could easily result in another death.
SolarPowered
Member
Just like balancing Lei Lei.
/salt
I know that took some of you guys down memory lane.
I feel you for sure man. I've had even worse. Several times I try to safe DHC with a characters QCF into another QCF super, only to get a DP super so many freaking times. Compared to Vanilla, this game's inputs are ass. I've gotten way too many QCFs when I want to DP and vice versa compared to vanilla. Not sure what they changed, but it's definitely screwing with people.
Honestly, I think they just need to remove XF at this point. That is honestly my biggest gripe with this game. I don't mind unblockables, I don't mind the bullshit of tridash/teleport shenanigens, I didn't even mind the bullshit of Dark Phoenix... but giving everyone access to something that can win them the game in five seconds is just god damn stupid. If they must keep XF, please just make each level the same amount of damage/speed as XF1, but make it last longer for each level. At least that way no one will die in five hit combos.
I OCV'd a team trenchcoat with Hsien-Ko last night resulting in an immediate quit from player matches. Like instant. The feeling I got had to be like the opposite feeling ChrisG felt after losing NEC.
Nothing creative about waiting for recovery frames and XF straight to death unless they XFC in return.
Even if you have XF, you have to work for kills. It's a bit easier to get in but you're still susceptible to getting hit yourself. Perhaps my main issue with the XFC is the cancelling of the block stun. That shit is ridiculous.
I think the boost is kind of weird. I don't know where I stand on XF as a whole. But I'm only really rubbed the wrong way when a point character is generating legit offensive pressure, only to be fucked up because their usually safe move is ignored by XF.
Sir Garbageman
Member
EventHubs said:
Before the year is over AKA in three weeks? No way will there be any balancing done this early right?
Like I said, I don't use it to guard cancel much, and it hasn't happened to me much, but I see why people would be angry about it. But if there was no bonuses in the XF, or heavily reduced bonuses, you're only losing a significant part of your health, or a character at most.
Karsticles
Member
Wesker's glasses mechanic is a great idea implemented in the opposite way it should be.
How it works:
1) Use Phantom Dance at any point, or take damage.
2) Get a permanent damage and speed buff.
This promotes thoughtless play - no other character in the game gets permanent buffs.
How it should work:
1) Wesker takes damage, and gets the glasses buff.
2) Phantom Dance provides him with new glasses at the end of it, ending the buff.
This would promote thoughtful play - do you want to forgo Phantom Dance in favor of resets to retain your buff, or is it worth losing the buff to kill off this character you're fighting?
X-Factor is great.
LESSON LEARNED.
Don't blame player laziness on X-Factor mechanics.
How it works:
1) Use Phantom Dance at any point, or take damage.
2) Get a permanent damage and speed buff.
This promotes thoughtless play - no other character in the game gets permanent buffs.
How it should work:
1) Wesker takes damage, and gets the glasses buff.
2) Phantom Dance provides him with new glasses at the end of it, ending the buff.
This would promote thoughtful play - do you want to forgo Phantom Dance in favor of resets to retain your buff, or is it worth losing the buff to kill off this character you're fighting?
X-Factor is great.
I honestly lost a match because on an incoming Sentinel I called Dark Hole and went for Elastic Slam. Sentinel Hard Drived, X-Factored right behind my characters, and j.Sed. -_-
LESSON LEARNED.
The cancel is actually the least effective part of X-Factor, but people aren't implementing old technology into their game. People SHOULD be canceling their attack string into a Snapback, which beats anything but fully invincible attacks out of the XFC. We've known this since Vanilla. Snapbacks are only 2 frames in startup. 1 bar to prevent a dead character should be a no-brainer, and competitive players should be saving a bar of meter for when that last character comes out to ensure they can counter the XFC.
Don't blame player laziness on X-Factor mechanics.
I imagine it feels similar to how I am after I OCV someone with normal Phoenix on point in this game.
Alternate translation of the Twitter Q&A":
"I watched a big American tournament today (NEC12) and well, don't you think Wesker is a bit strong? I mean, the whole top 7 had a Wesker in it. Can't you do something about him in the patch you mentioned for this year, like you did with Sentinel in Vanilla?"
Niitsuma: "This is a difficult issue, but if we start changing things now there will be no end to it, so it will be very hard to do this for this year's patch..."
So maybe no Wesker nerf with the first patch.
"I watched a big American tournament today (NEC12) and well, don't you think Wesker is a bit strong? I mean, the whole top 7 had a Wesker in it. Can't you do something about him in the patch you mentioned for this year, like you did with Sentinel in Vanilla?"
Niitsuma: "This is a difficult issue, but if we start changing things now there will be no end to it, so it will be very hard to do this for this year's patch..."
So maybe no Wesker nerf with the first patch.
sixteen-bit
Member
Yeah, probably just bugfixes
pressing buttons on an incoming Sentinel? even I don't do that! just bait it out next time and meteor smash him maybe
I gotta try the snapback mechanic though. I'll trade 1 meter for x-factor any day of the week.
SolarKnight
Member
That still works in UMvC3?
AnkiRendan
Member
I hate that there is no recording option in this game. I WANT TO SEE THIS.
Wesker is probably the best character in the game now, but he's still not as broken as Vanilla Wolvie or Phoenix. It's not like snapping in characters early was removed. Kill him as fast as you can like vanilla phoenix and get rid of him before he gets lvl 3 xfactor. He's manageable, especially with the right assists.
SolarPowered
Member
Not quite, but in the general area.
One is like a fantastic massage and the other is like getting a blowjob.
Now I want to run a Hsien-koxPhoenix team
Even if Ultimate had replaced XF with just a roman cancel, guard stun should not be able to be cancelled for free.
Can you cancel into the snapback on reaction? How strict are we talking?
corrosivefrost
Member
So the crowd and the subject has changed, but the thread is still full of bitching. :lol:
It wouldn't be Marvel without salt. 8)
It wouldn't be Marvel without salt. 8)
SolarKnight
Member
You have the whole X-factor activation animation to react, you'd just have to train yourself to do it.
That's not bad at all. Definitely better than nothing.
I felt like this was one of the coolest things learned in the metagame from vanilla to Ultimate, a natural check to being caught off guard by Guard Cancel XFCs, but didn't Capcom literally say something about changing the frame timing for the Snap Back to prevent this kind of counter from happening?
I still think that was stupid. It sounded like the dev team was encouraging Guard Cancel XFC as being "unpunishable" imo.
JeTmAn81
Member
I play Sentinel. If I feel as dumb killing whole teams with a couple random XF3 Sentinel hits as I do losing whole teams to a couple random XF3 Sentinel hits, then there's something wrong there.
Do whatever you want to Arthur, it won't make a difference since nobody plays him
Karsticles
Member
I don't try to jump and attack him - I know to stay away from Hard Drive. I mean, as a former Sentinel user, I Hard Drive 100% of the time while coming in just to avoid having to deal with mix-ups. It's totally worth the bar just for that. With XFCing working in the air, though, I never thought about him stopping the Hard Drive into j.S, and I didn't think the j.S would auto-correct!pressing buttons on an incoming Sentinel? even I don't do that! just bait it out next time and meteor smash him maybe
I gotta try the snapback mechanic though. I'll trade 1 meter for x-factor any day of the week.
Why wouldn't it?
Phoenix wasn't nearly as bad as Wesker. You had to EARN Dark Phoenix through countless snap in mix-ups in competitive play. Wesker comes as he is.
Put Morrigan's Dark Harmonizer in there, too!
I'm sorry I did that to you so many times. :-(
I feel to good right now.
You can input the motion during the time freeze just like your opponent can.
SolarKnight
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_fhnj3RDf0
If they still work like in this video, it should be mostly safe.
But yeah, I'm not sure how effective it is with the change to snapbacks, which is why I asked Karst if it still worked.
Karsticles said:
Because didn't they nerf snapbacks somehow?
I play Sentinel. If I feel as dumb killing whole teams with a couple random XF3 Sentinel hits as I do losing whole teams to a couple random XF3 Sentinel hits, then there's something wrong there.
Do whatever you want to Arthur, it won't make a difference since nobody plays him
if you feel dumb killing people with Sentinel XF3, don't ever play Wesker or anyone who can actually competently get in assistless with XF3. Just chicken block against Sentinel, and super jump over him all day. You have to accept that Sentinel's air to air is just better than yours in most cases. Easiest way to beat Sentinel has always been locking him down on the ground so he can't use his good normals in the air, or punishing his unsafe shit on the ground.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I play Sentinel. If I feel as dumb killing whole teams with a couple random XF3 Sentinel hits as I do losing whole teams to a couple random XF3 Sentinel hits, then there's something wrong there.
Do whatever you want to Arthur, it won't make a difference since nobody plays him
Yeah something is wrong, no one knows how to block.
I was under the impression they increased the # of frames it comes out in?
Karsticles
Member
They said they were changing it, but the development team said a lot of things that never actually happened (like variable X-Factor times). I haven't surveyed the entire strategy guide, but from what I've seen, Snapbacks all have a 1-2 frame startup time, which is fast enough to beat out anything your opponent will do, or trade with it, which is just as well I imagine.
Some Snapbacks are, some aren't. Akuma, for example, is +1 on block for his Snapback, and Hulk is -10. Believe it or not, Snapbacks all have differing numbers of startup, active, and recovery frames in this game. However, your opponent will not have time to react to the Snapback, and anyone who XFCs guard cancel is doing it to smash your face in - there's no hesitation involved.
Now, sometime down the metagame, players might start to wait on the Snapback, and it'll become a 50/50 situation. I don't remember if Snapbacks are cancelable into hypers; if they are, then you could just make it safe with 2 bars if your opponent guesses right.
The problem with nerfing Wesker is that it's not a simple fix. They need to look at his self-OTG ability, his combo-ability from full screen gunshots, his glasses mechanic, his increased damage output on Phantom Dance, etc. There are a lot of things about him that need to be toned down, but they also don't want to kill him in the process. And nerfing his HP doesn't actually solve the problem, like it did with Sentinel.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I play Sentinel. If I feel as dumb killing whole teams with a couple random XF3 Sentinel hits as I do losing whole teams to a couple random XF3 Sentinel hits, then there's something wrong there.
Do whatever you want to Arthur, it won't make a difference since nobody plays him
Yeah something is wrong, no one knows how to block.
What would be wrong w/ realizing the glasses mechanic was a bad idea and simply removing it? He's still plenty good. It's not intricately wound with his other moves and abilities. It was a tacked on mechanic, right?
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