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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT| of 9 Years Urley

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S

Solune

Member
Chavelo said:
That's a weird way to spell "at most, when I feel generous".
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You feel like proving me right? ;)
lowhighkang_LHK said:
5 meters plus x-factor usually means a comeback for most characters dude.
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Yes there are alot of characters that can make comebacks, but they can't do it like Vergil can. As in, even if it comes down to anchor vs anchor, Summoned Swords makes everyone free with only Strider being able to do the same shit.

But 5 meters and x-factor is a means to cover Vergil's shortcomings (long recovery on normals aren't so long, the meter allows Vergil to cover himself and cancel out of whiffed attacks, allows him to get in where as no meter (no air dash etc.) wouldn't, whereas for other characters x-factor and high meter is a means to enhance their strength.
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If Vergil ever -is- a threat on anyone's team (in competitive play, I don't know anyone who uses Vergil in high level tournament play where Vergil is their best) - but if Vergil were to be a particular players best character, he's X-factor guard cancel bait, free - so easy all day. It's so easy to confirm a x-factor roman cancel off of any of Vergil's slow as shit recovery normals. With abysmally low health, that's a dead Vergil. Especially after an advancing guard.
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Any character can be Xfactor guard cancelled, but when you have SS or Ouroboros covering you, they have to defend at most times. Although I have been jabbed by Wesker from a raw teleport with SS on before it's not guaranteed , it's certainly not a free punish.
It's a fundamental oddity in Vergil's game in which he either needs assists and/or a copious amount of meter just to set himself up for the prospect to do damage, not even guaranteed damage, just the prospect of it. Moreover, the use of Spiral Swords invariably fucks combos up due to hit scaling and the like. And due to Vergil's poor defensive game, he now has to seemingly burn meter just as a means of defense to get people off of them.

Vergil's got some crazy strengths but has a lot of holes in his gameplay. And I think we're seeing a lot of these holes getting exposed in tournament play. Still an overall decent character though, but just consider how much meter Vergil needs to do his "thing" - when all that meter can be applied to another character for more reachable gains.
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You bring up all of the important parts and this is definitely what prevents him from being an S tier character. I think that even with his weaknesses present, the lowest he would round out would be the bottom of A Tier, simply because alot of his tools negate the effectiveness of others(Hawkeye, Jean, Arthur). I'm not even trying to say that Vergil is the best in the game or anything, but mid tier... no.
 
D

Degen

Member
Gaf, can you tell 95% of your Ranked opponents apart? They use the same combination of about seven characters and have the same two or three tactics for each of them.

I don't understand it but gladly blow up all these mediocre Vergils and reeeeeally bad Weskers
 
K

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
We got somebody from Russia tuning in! Yay. Now we just need somebody from Antarctica and Greenland.

Smurf vs Biz. Grudge Match. Who knows when.
 
A

A Pretty Panda

fuckin' called it, man
Degen said:
Gaf, can you tell 95% of your Ranked opponents apart? They use the same combination of about seven characters and have the same two or three tactics for each of them.

I don't understand it but gladly blow up all these mediocre Vergils and reeeeeally bad Weskers
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Take a shot every time you see the "Dark Knight" title on someone in ranked.
 
F

Frantic

Member
Strider is so awesome. 400k meterless combo that leads into a 50/50 reset. All told, it can do 950k damage with just Strider, and up to 1.1 million with a DHC. So good.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Some Wesker concepts to start my day :)

combo1g0yqx.gif


combo20qlv8.gif


combo3xia6w.gif


combo4x0zim.gif
 
L

lowhighkang_LHK

Member
Solune said:
You feel like proving me right? ;)

Yes there are alot of characters that can make comebacks, but they can't do it like Vergil can. As in, even if it comes down to anchor vs anchor, Summoned Swords makes everyone free with only Strider being able to do the same shit.



Any character can be Xfactor guard cancelled, but when you have SS or Ouroboros covering you, they have to defend at most times. Although I have been jabbed by Wesker from a raw teleport with SS on before it's not guaranteed , it's certainly not a free punish.

You bring up all of the important parts and this is definitely what prevents him from being an S tier character. I think that even with his weaknesses present, the lowest he would round out would be the bottom of A Tier, simply because alot of his tools negate the effectiveness of others(Hawkeye, Jean, Arthur). I'm not even trying to say that Vergil is the best in the game or anything, but mid tier... no.
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I don't know: I'm watching FC Jago's anchor Vergil vs. NerdJosh's anchor Wesker, and Wesker is making Vergil look like his bitch. SS doesn't protect Vergil's hurtbox from the top, straight or obligue angle. It also doesn't really last all that long. Not to mention Wesker can run up and command throw Vergil upon activation since it's 1 frame start up on the throw. And Jago's a pretty good player - naturally, who adopted Vergil very early on.

Anyway:

I mostly agree with everything you say. Ultimately a lot of the things required to 'protect' Vergil at least from a competitive perspective, isn't worth it since all that can be applied to other characters with quicker, and more immediately rewarding results (i.e, Wesker, Viper, Spencer, Zero, Doom, Wolverine, Magneto etc etc.)

Vergil is not S or even top A tier because of the imbalances that exist with some of the other S-tier characters. In actuality, I think Vergil is a very strongly balanced character that is only struggling because of the absurdities of some of the other top tier characters. It's hard to justify using Vergil when other characters seemingly can open up their opponents without assists or meter, and consequently build a net bar after doing a 900,000 damage combo. If Vergil uses meter to open up an opponent (spiral swords) he wastes a meter, and isn't gaining meter during the combo via spiral sword activation, and it's hard to do that much damage because of the absurd damage and hit stun scaling. At that point, just Magneto and tri-dash over your opponents head with a semi-decent assist, problem solved. Spiral Sword not required. Seth Killian really said it best day 1, "Vergil is not top tier." Maybe we see a little truth in that statement. Vergil is no Dante in terms of tournament effectiveness (thus far).
 
G

Grecco

Member
What was it that clockwork said about vergil?


Everybody would jump on him on day one but most would drop him, those who still keep at him will have a good chracter.

Or something like that.


Clockwork is nostradamus
 
L

lowhighkang_LHK

Member
Dahbomb said:
Well not even Dante is Dante in tournament effectiveness in Ultimate yet. In terms of tournament efficacy Vergil has been doing solid enough, much better than the other new characters. The characters listed in that bracket are all vanilla characters incidentally enough and most of them require assist to be played at a high level as well.

People trolling on me while I have exams. :/
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Not better than Hawkeye, Frank West, and if you want tournament effectiveness, you'd have to include Justin's Iron Fist.

Though I still think we haven't seen Dr. Strange or Firebrand at full potential.
 
T

Tobe

Member
lowhighkang_LHK said:
Not better than Hawkeye, Frank West, and if you want tournament effectiveness, you'd have to include Justin's Iron Fist.

Though I still think we haven't seen Dr. Strange or Firebrand at full potential.
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just watch some of kadey's videos where there is an awesome french firebrand player
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
1 down 6 more to go.

I would rebut some of those Vergil points (btw command throwing Vergil out of Spiral Swords by running into it during it's start up is LOLZ) but I will save my long rebuts for the 24th when I get off. Until then you guys have to deal with me in short bursts.

Oh and I finally finished the IM 40 min tutorial video -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyt_jGJ_YDg&feature=player_embedded

Great props to BlueBomber on making it, we need WAY more of these long detailed videos on particular characters.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Simple mode Firebrand > Vergil

Anyway, I like Vergil in DMC, but his moves are just too chunky feeling in this game for me to get used to. I like his dash, though. I can't play characters that don't move smoothly, like Nova and Hawkeye. I'd rather use guys like Magneto and C.Viper and WESKERRRRRrrrr.

Dahbomb said:
we need WAY more of these long detailed videos on particular characters.
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I was gonna make one for Wesker, but after my experience yesterday, FUCK THAT.
 
S

Solune

Member
lowhighkang_LHK said:
I don't know: I'm watching FC Jago's anchor Vergil vs. NerdJosh's anchor Wesker, and Wesker is making Vergil look like his bitch. SS doesn't protect Vergil's hurtbox from the top, straight or obligue angle. It also doesn't really last all that long. Not to mention Wesker can run up and command throw Vergil upon activation since it's 1 frame start up on the throw. And Jago's a pretty good player - naturally, who adopted Vergil very early on.
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I definitely think Wesker is a better character than Vergil and that's who he runs with on his team during serious play. As for SS, it's not really used as a defensive move it just happens to have that as a secondary function, but you know that without me telling you =p.
Anyway:

I mostly agree with everything you say. Ultimately a lot of the things required to 'protect' Vergil at least from a competitive perspective, isn't worth it since all that can be applied to other characters with quicker, and more immediately rewarding results (i.e, Wesker, Viper, Spencer, Zero, Doom, Wolverine, Magneto etc etc.)
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Sadly slowass teleport + non-whiff cancellable normals hurts him that much more on his approach, hence why he's better as second as discussed. Really he suffers as a point character but makes up for that in potential with meter usage.
Vergil is not S or even top A tier because of the imbalances that exist with some of the other S-tier characters. In actuality, I think Vergil is a very strongly balanced character that is only struggling because of the absurdities of some of the other top tier characters. It's hard to justify using Vergil when other characters seemingly can open up their opponents without assists or meter, and consequently build a net bar after doing a 900,000 damage combo. If Vergil uses meter to open up an opponent (spiral swords) he wastes a meter, and isn't gaining meter during the combo via spiral sword activation, and it's hard to do that much damage because of the absurd damage and hit stun scaling. At that point, just Magneto and tri-dash over your opponents head with a semi-decent assist, problem solved. Spiral Sword not required. Seth Killian really said it best day 1, "Vergil is not top tier." Maybe we see a little truth in that statement. Vergil is no Dante in terms of tournament effectiveness (thus far).
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Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your perspective, they had to gimp some of his abilities because 3/4 screen punish into full combo with whiff cancels would be pretty stupid. I would love if they gave him some normals from his Beowulf moveset to offset this so that when hes in close proximity, he can make himself safe. While maintaining position. As stated, point Vergil just isn't as good as S tiers who are able to RTSD.
God's Beard said:
Simple mode Firebrand > Vergil

Anyway, I like Vergil in DMC, but his moves are just too chunky feeling in this game for me to get used to. I like his dash, though. I can't play characters that don't move smoothly, like Nova and Hawkeye. I'd rather use guys like Magneto and C.Viper and WESKERRRRRrrrr.
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Massive recovery is a bitch which doesn't even make sense other than for balancing reasons
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
It's not even the recovery, his animations just have this weird rhythm to them that bothers me. Dante has huge frames on his moves, but the animation is super smooth.
 
D

Degen

Member
I don't remember putting it that way but I guess watching the replay would put those words into your mouth wouldn't it
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Degen said:
Gaf, can you tell 95% of your Ranked opponents apart? They use the same combination of about seven characters and have the same two or three tactics for each of them.

I don't understand it but gladly blow up all these mediocre Vergils and reeeeeally bad Weskers
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Badly telegraphed raw teleports all day erryday.

corrosivefrost said:
So what exactly triggers getting a free bonus card for H&H online these days?
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Clicking the "Online" sub-menu in H&H mode nets you a daily bonus card once per day.
Being on the winning faction for the week nets you a bonus card at the week's end.

Speaking of which, what's the current H&H score on Xbox Live?
 
V

Vice

Member
Does anyone have suggestions for an anchor for Captain America(S.slash)/Sentinel(drones team? I've been messing around with Super Skrull(tenderizer).
 
S

smurfx

get some go again
you know what is great about zero's buster shot besides being awesome? it auto corrects if a lame teleport character tries to teleport behind you. keep your shit charged and no virgil or strange will be able to catch you by surprise.
 
I

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
how can I beat team that spammed a lot with bullets.

Deadpool, Sentinel and Dormammu.


Deadpool spammed bullets awhile summon sentinel as assists. It made it harder for me to approach him.
 
corrosivefrost

corrosivefrost

Member
Sixfortyfive said:
Badly telegraphed raw teleports all day erryday.


Clicking the "Online" sub-menu in H&H mode nets you a daily bonus card once per day.
Being on the winning faction for the week nets you a bonus card at the week's end.

Speaking of which, what's the current H&H score on Xbox Live?
Click to expand...

That's what I thought, but I logged in this morning and clicked online in the submenu and was not given a bonus. Maybe it's not on a daily basis and it's on a 24h+ basis?

Still wondering why I didn't get the title for being on winning heroes side last week?
 
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