shaowebb
Member
PM me. We should chat.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT4| Nothing Stops This Patch!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
PM me. We should chat.
shaowebb
Member
I hardly did a thing. I only showed up for Iron Fist so for all i'm worth I could be a footnote buried under a page number or smudge. Some of you guys worked your ass off though. I'd love to see folks know who was truly involved start to finish on this. You deserve some recognition regardless of what becomes of this.
God I hope Maximillian runs a discussion video on this. Theres a lot of exciting concepts in this log.
God I hope Maximillian runs a discussion video on this. Theres a lot of exciting concepts in this log.
Karsticles
Member
I don't know. GB posted a list of everyone who posts in this thread. We could add that in.
At the very least, the four committee members need to be added soon, because it's currently just out there without authors.
I do think there's merit to having a long list of minor gaffers who have added input at various times throughout the process. Numbers add validity to the notes as a collective effort - a true "GAF" changelist.
I don't face a lot of good Zeros myself. You're the first one I've played online who finished a lightning loop on me lol.
I did facepalm when I manage to lightning loop fine in lag, but then the next match dropped a relatively simple happy birthday combo against Dante and Strider when it isn't lagging. D: The connection was tons better than last time we played too, thank god for my upgraded internet.
I'll jump on in a minute.
Committee members + general thanks to [Marvel/FGC] GAF.
I only really suggested feature changes.
Karsticles
Member
I might hop on in a bit if anyone wants a long set.
Viscant read through the patch thing. As in the entire annotation thing.
He thinks Phoenix is #1 anchor now easily (combined Phoenix buffs and Vergil nerfs) and within the context of the patch she is possibly #1 character in the game. Me personally, I think Magneto is the best point character with Dante the best support character and Phoenix the best anchor (but not best character, Magneto is #1) in this patch.
I really really hope he makes some big ass posts to school us lol.
Also Viscant likes Nemo over Fanatiq in the MM.
I am actually really surprised that Viscant didn't like the Jaguar Kick being special cancelable on block. That was one of the most interesting changes on the character. I honestly see it as just a Stinger into teleport type mix up/pressure tool.
He thinks Phoenix is #1 anchor now easily (combined Phoenix buffs and Vergil nerfs) and within the context of the patch she is possibly #1 character in the game. Me personally, I think Magneto is the best point character with Dante the best support character and Phoenix the best anchor (but not best character, Magneto is #1) in this patch.
I really really hope he makes some big ass posts to school us lol.
Also Viscant likes Nemo over Fanatiq in the MM.
I am actually really surprised that Viscant didn't like the Jaguar Kick being special cancelable on block. That was one of the most interesting changes on the character. I honestly see it as just a Stinger into teleport type mix up/pressure tool.
Good Games EasyMode!
It'd been so long since we last played that I had forgotten who you use!
Nice Magneto and Hulk dude. Those Sentinel comebacks too! 0_0 #TheClassic
My Dante was actually able to put in work, despite my inablility to bold cancel..
<3 Hail Storm
Good Games EasyMode!
It'd been so long since we last played that I had forgotten who you use!
Nice Magneto and Hulk dude. Those Sentinel comebacks too! 0_0 #TheClassic
My Dante was actually able to put in work, despite my inablility to bold cancel..
<3 Hail Storm
Yeah, fun set onionfrog
Nice execution with all your characters.
shaowebb
Member
Awwwwwwwwwww yeah. I'd love to hear some tight Viscant tech breakdowns. No joke, that guy is an analyst's analyst when it comes to character utility. Love hearing his long Fighting Game philosophy breakdowns of how things would and wouldn't work depending on scenarios.
Professor Beef
Banned
And suddenly, I'm a 1st Lord.
Yo, I know you just invited me, I want to play a few more matches with onionfrog and I'll join
Karsticles
Member
sup guys, Huoshen here. I went and read your patch suggestion post, and while I'm pretty amazed at the amount of work you all put in, I got a lot of disagreements with your suggestions. I'm just gonna focus on the stuff with Felicia for now, so when I make any comments, note that I read the full patch notes with the reasoning behind the suggestions, so I'll mainly be arguing against that.
+Base health increased by 50K.
Fine with this. This increases the chance people have to burn a second meter to kill her but not by much.
+Cat & Mouse is now special cancelable, distance increased slightly.
Can we say CvS2 roll cancels? This would be way too strong if you asked me. I could easily escaping a lot of ground situations and then if I see the chance, Hell Cat my opponent into pretty good damage.If they jump, then I'm just Buckler-ing my way out. If you're really looking to punish projectiles, she already has excellent tools to navigate around them (Wall Cling, Delta Kick), so giving her one more isn't necessarily required. If anything, I'd seek to make this shorter and faster, to make it a much stronger mix up tool that it is right now, as it is an excellent way to cross up opponents who are in the corner during an attempted reset.
+Kitty Helper summon now runs slightly faster and jumps slightly farther.
I'm fine with the faster ground speed, I'm not fine with the wider jump arc. I prefer the tight arc, because if you increase the arc of her jump to be wider, it's highly possible for her to whiff on the smaller crouch bodies (Wolverine, Morrigan, R.R.). Right now it barely hits those characters correctly at times. Keep the jump arc as is.
+Neko Punch now causes a crumple state.
If you were to do this, this would defeat the purpose of her Buckler > Slide option almost universally. Instead of doing this, I suggest the following:
Increase Block Stun from -2 to +2
This would make it more of a viable block pressure option and keep her on top of her target, once she got in. It wouldn't be good for hit confirms, but we're expecting out Felicia players to be able to properly confirm into the slide if they get the hit. This also makes doing Dash > Hell Cat on push-blockers much more viable if they're in stun a bit longer.
+Rolling Uppercut is now jump-cancelable off of the opponent on block or hit.
Disagree. I see Upper as a tool used to counteract against characters like Doom/Wolverine that want to jump > divekick on her as they try to run away. Instead, give it a little more invulnerability so that she can anti air people with it, and give it a Counter Hit trigger so that if she counter hits someone with it, it turns into a hard knockdown. This wouldn't really help her fight against the SJ characters, but divekicking characters would have to check their reckless natures or be reversal-ed into a full combo. If you're feeling really adventerous, make it a hard knockdown regardless. This would actually open up a few extra paths in her combos and give her slightly (probably 25-30k) more damage in her combo routes on the average, assuming she has 1 assist she can work with. If you don't change anything else about it, abusing the move will get you airthrown/blown up really easily, making it a terrible move to overuse and spam (unless you like face blocking damage).
+Cat Spike M vertical hitbox increased downward; now hits crouching characters more consistently.
Can agree with this. Having her spike whiff and then getting nailed by a panic push block is not fun, especially on some of the characters that are incredibly hard to hit the cross up spike on (see small bodies).
+Toy Touch hitstun returned to Vanilla status.
With the current combo paths, there's no point in this. In fact, by doing this, you actually decrease her final damage output in the end. With sand splash as a better OTG in general, damage and stun wise, Toy Touch honestly got out-dated, so there's no need to revert this change. In fact by doing this, you actually ruin some of her ender reset options, so I do not support this change.
+Wall jump and wall cling now available at superjump height; wall cling input changed to b,b.
I don't like this, because it suddenly makes it incredibly easy and (mostly) risk free for Felicia players to get out of the corner for the most part. SJ height confirms are pretty hard for 80% of the cast, so giving her SJ wall cling is probably not a good move overall. She's suppose to be a ground based character, not someone hopping around everywhere like a rabbit. Granted it would help some of her problem areas (SJ height flyers who chill out) but you want an assist to complement her to handle that situation more than the character herself.
+Sand Splash projectile hit points increased to 5; blockstun increased; assist version startup reduced to 35 frames; input changed to qcf.S (H version).
There are practical uses for all three of her Sand Splash options right now. L is your reset splash, used to freak your opponent out into a strong reset option. M is used for a ground based reset, forcing them to tech on the ground, while H is your main damage ender/OTG combo continuation. Having a S command for this wouldn't cover the spectrum of uses of her different sand splash levels, so I am against consolidating all three of her splashes. Because of this, a charge is still required, since all her motions are covered (QCB is covered by the HCB Hell Cat). I would like to see her assist splash be the H version instead of the M version though, for sure.
+Delta Kick H assist pushes opponents back significantly on block; point Delta Kick now hits multiple characters.
I can kinda see why you'd want to do this with her Delta Kick H, but I'd rather have her 3rd assist be an anti air assist with Rolling Buckler > Upper. It would then become a great reversal overall as an assist. I support fixing the delta kick issue on happy birthdays for sure, but you guys failed and missed probably one of the more important fixes on her Delta Kick.
Delta Kick (ground version) now ground bounces airborne characters.
Assists: Rolling Buckler L + Rolling Slide, Sand Splash, Delta Kick H
As with the previous post, I'd rather see Rolling Buckler L + Upper for her 3rd assist as an anti air assist more than anything else.
Those are my initial thoughts on all of your suggested changes with some reasoning. Enjoy.
+Base health increased by 50K.
Fine with this. This increases the chance people have to burn a second meter to kill her but not by much.
+Cat & Mouse is now special cancelable, distance increased slightly.
Can we say CvS2 roll cancels? This would be way too strong if you asked me. I could easily escaping a lot of ground situations and then if I see the chance, Hell Cat my opponent into pretty good damage.If they jump, then I'm just Buckler-ing my way out. If you're really looking to punish projectiles, she already has excellent tools to navigate around them (Wall Cling, Delta Kick), so giving her one more isn't necessarily required. If anything, I'd seek to make this shorter and faster, to make it a much stronger mix up tool that it is right now, as it is an excellent way to cross up opponents who are in the corner during an attempted reset.
+Kitty Helper summon now runs slightly faster and jumps slightly farther.
I'm fine with the faster ground speed, I'm not fine with the wider jump arc. I prefer the tight arc, because if you increase the arc of her jump to be wider, it's highly possible for her to whiff on the smaller crouch bodies (Wolverine, Morrigan, R.R.). Right now it barely hits those characters correctly at times. Keep the jump arc as is.
+Neko Punch now causes a crumple state.
If you were to do this, this would defeat the purpose of her Buckler > Slide option almost universally. Instead of doing this, I suggest the following:
Increase Block Stun from -2 to +2
This would make it more of a viable block pressure option and keep her on top of her target, once she got in. It wouldn't be good for hit confirms, but we're expecting out Felicia players to be able to properly confirm into the slide if they get the hit. This also makes doing Dash > Hell Cat on push-blockers much more viable if they're in stun a bit longer.
+Rolling Uppercut is now jump-cancelable off of the opponent on block or hit.
Disagree. I see Upper as a tool used to counteract against characters like Doom/Wolverine that want to jump > divekick on her as they try to run away. Instead, give it a little more invulnerability so that she can anti air people with it, and give it a Counter Hit trigger so that if she counter hits someone with it, it turns into a hard knockdown. This wouldn't really help her fight against the SJ characters, but divekicking characters would have to check their reckless natures or be reversal-ed into a full combo. If you're feeling really adventerous, make it a hard knockdown regardless. This would actually open up a few extra paths in her combos and give her slightly (probably 25-30k) more damage in her combo routes on the average, assuming she has 1 assist she can work with. If you don't change anything else about it, abusing the move will get you airthrown/blown up really easily, making it a terrible move to overuse and spam (unless you like face blocking damage).
+Cat Spike M vertical hitbox increased downward; now hits crouching characters more consistently.
Can agree with this. Having her spike whiff and then getting nailed by a panic push block is not fun, especially on some of the characters that are incredibly hard to hit the cross up spike on (see small bodies).
+Toy Touch hitstun returned to Vanilla status.
With the current combo paths, there's no point in this. In fact, by doing this, you actually decrease her final damage output in the end. With sand splash as a better OTG in general, damage and stun wise, Toy Touch honestly got out-dated, so there's no need to revert this change. In fact by doing this, you actually ruin some of her ender reset options, so I do not support this change.
+Wall jump and wall cling now available at superjump height; wall cling input changed to b,b.
I don't like this, because it suddenly makes it incredibly easy and (mostly) risk free for Felicia players to get out of the corner for the most part. SJ height confirms are pretty hard for 80% of the cast, so giving her SJ wall cling is probably not a good move overall. She's suppose to be a ground based character, not someone hopping around everywhere like a rabbit. Granted it would help some of her problem areas (SJ height flyers who chill out) but you want an assist to complement her to handle that situation more than the character herself.
+Sand Splash projectile hit points increased to 5; blockstun increased; assist version startup reduced to 35 frames; input changed to qcf.S (H version).
There are practical uses for all three of her Sand Splash options right now. L is your reset splash, used to freak your opponent out into a strong reset option. M is used for a ground based reset, forcing them to tech on the ground, while H is your main damage ender/OTG combo continuation. Having a S command for this wouldn't cover the spectrum of uses of her different sand splash levels, so I am against consolidating all three of her splashes. Because of this, a charge is still required, since all her motions are covered (QCB is covered by the HCB Hell Cat). I would like to see her assist splash be the H version instead of the M version though, for sure.
+Delta Kick H assist pushes opponents back significantly on block; point Delta Kick now hits multiple characters.
I can kinda see why you'd want to do this with her Delta Kick H, but I'd rather have her 3rd assist be an anti air assist with Rolling Buckler > Upper. It would then become a great reversal overall as an assist. I support fixing the delta kick issue on happy birthdays for sure, but you guys failed and missed probably one of the more important fixes on her Delta Kick.
Delta Kick (ground version) now ground bounces airborne characters.
Assists: Rolling Buckler L + Rolling Slide, Sand Splash, Delta Kick H
As with the previous post, I'd rather see Rolling Buckler L + Upper for her 3rd assist as an anti air assist more than anything else.
Those are my initial thoughts on all of your suggested changes with some reasoning. Enjoy.
Thanks for your input and your time for going through the changes and reading everything.
Some of those changes could definitely be implemented. My understanding with the Kitty Helper change was that she would follow the opponent faster (jump longer distances to get closer) but once close enough she would revert to her old arc. I guess the main issue is that in close range it would need better tracking so it doesn't whiff short characters.
Some of those changes could definitely be implemented. My understanding with the Kitty Helper change was that she would follow the opponent faster (jump longer distances to get closer) but once close enough she would revert to her old arc. I guess the main issue is that in close range it would need better tracking so it doesn't whiff short characters.
Good Games Ghazi.
Was picking wolverine a salty pick?
I'd play with you and Karst but I Hate Lobbies.
as does Karst
Hi DJHoushen, It's nice to have you on GAF.
I always enjoy seeing you rep Felicia in UMVC3.
I also play Felicia, but I'm not really at your skill level with her.
Agreed. I also thought it would be too strong...
I did not think about the inreased jump arc having negative effects, I don't play against enough RR or Morrigan players to have noticed the issue.
The way Dahbomb explained it in the post above makes more sense.
I liked the crumple just because it would give more possible team options that could combo into a crumple for FOTF loops.
Increasing the blockstun would also be a good change.
I like the hard knockdown on counter hit idea.
I didn't think about the increased hitstun messing up her resets. I just wanted to be able to do stupid shit like combo off of an Ammy THC.
This was a James Chen change.... lol
I'd be fine with either.
I think I favored the Delta Kick assist since I rarely use Anti Air assists that aren't called Vajra or Jam Session. :/
Anyone see this yet? (sorry if old)
Apparently UMvC3 DLC and digital version is being delisted on XBLA/PSN very shortly
http://www.capcom-unity.com/combofi...vc3-and-mvc2-on-psnxbla-store?pageSystem=full
I assume it will still be redownloadable if you bought it, just not kept up for new purchase.
Apparently UMvC3 DLC and digital version is being delisted on XBLA/PSN very shortly
http://www.capcom-unity.com/combofi...vc3-and-mvc2-on-psnxbla-store?pageSystem=full
I assume it will still be redownloadable if you bought it, just not kept up for new purchase.
Thanks for posting this.
What in the actual fuck! Hype deflating....
They ain't doing shit with this game if the didn't can't even continue to offer the DLC on the online store.
...
and MVC2,,, WTF man?
Digital Content Licensing agreements are the worst...
(See the Snes DKC games being removed from the Wii Virtual Console.)
Digital future my ass
Atleast you can redownload if you already have them.
The pricing isn't great, but its not quite as bad as SSF4 costumes.
Professor Beef
Banned
Yea I also thought the C&M change was strong. Not in a CVS2 way but more in the style of using C&M as a free get in plus mix up like Berserker Slash only it woulf be safe and it would lead into a free combo. That's kinda derp right there.
I think C&M being cancellable is interesting but it should be cancellable into a specific move only, preferably one that is unsafe.
The Rolling Uppercut suggestion would basically make it into a n anti air that you can combo off of but is unsafe on block. I think that's a good suggestion because it deals with some of her worse match ups like Zero Pizza Cutting you. I think more invincibility and hard knockdown on it would make it pretty good as long as its clear that its unsafe and can't be spammed. It being an assist would mean she has a good crossover counter assist.
Going to wait until Karst comes back to discuss this again. He was the main proponent for the C&M change.
I think C&M being cancellable is interesting but it should be cancellable into a specific move only, preferably one that is unsafe.
The Rolling Uppercut suggestion would basically make it into a n anti air that you can combo off of but is unsafe on block. I think that's a good suggestion because it deals with some of her worse match ups like Zero Pizza Cutting you. I think more invincibility and hard knockdown on it would make it pretty good as long as its clear that its unsafe and can't be spammed. It being an assist would mean she has a good crossover counter assist.
Going to wait until Karst comes back to discuss this again. He was the main proponent for the C&M change.
Professor Beef
Banned
The Vita version is, IIRC.
Nah, I just have more success with Wolverine than Jill, so I pick him sometimes.
I have the exact same thoughts on lobbies, so you're good there.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
I really need to stop playing this game. Every time I start playing a new character though it's like I'm just sticking the needle back in my arm.
shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. congrats on getting it done duders!
hoping for some good news tomorrow...
Huw_Dawson
Member
No it doesn't make sense, as it means someone who wants to play UMvC3 (rather than Super Ultimate or whatever) now has no way of grabbing the two characters. This is their Marvel license expiring, which means that they are no longer allowed to distribute the games released under that license.
This means that they cannot release any title updates or DLC for Ultimate, so if there is anything in the works at all, it would have to be a new SKU, or a new game.
TOs are going to be forced to ban Shuma and Jill now. New players won't be able to get their hands on them legitimately and TOs won't be able to grab the DLC for tournaments.
After all this time, anyone who wants Jill and Shuma will have them. If they're doing another version then Ultimate won't mean anything to Tournies anyway.
The fact that MvC:O is going to stay on there tells you that it's Capcom's doing, not Marvel's.
I think it was a compulsory update.
Huw_Dawson
Member
MvC:O could well be on a different license.
Then so could a potential UMvC update.
Huw_Dawson
Member
For a UMvC3 update to be created, Capcom need a license off Marvel to continue distributing UMvC3. If they had a license off Marvel, they would not be delisting UMvC3. Like I said, if there is anything in the works, it has to be a new SKU or a new title entirely. Either MvC3 v3 or MvC4.
UMvC3 is dead.
The really weird thing is that they're still going ahead with Capcom Cup tonight, which will be showing off UMvC3. I would assume that next year Capcom will not be promoting Mahvel at all unless they have a new version to talk about.
Cross posting this cool glitch from the FGW thread.(Credit to Parallac Scroll for posting it originally.)
Magneto teleports to the other side of the screen while backdashing when the opponent hard tags..
Probably not practical to use in a match, but neat to see.
Magneto teleports to the other side of the screen while backdashing when the opponent hard tags..
Probably not practical to use in a match, but neat to see.
shaowebb
Member
It'd equal a free punish if you could do it at will though.
The same goes for MvC:O. Once their license with Marvel expires, MvC:O would also have to be delisted.
Delisting all the DLC and stuff from UMvC would essentially kill the game, so without an update it will essentially die. If they're doing another MvC3 update (ala Super-Arcade-Ultra) then it would make sense that the DLC would be delisted, especially if it included the Jill-Shuma Gorath characters in said update.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Announcing the DLC removal before you've announced your new version of the title that makes the DLC redundant is a dumb idea. You're not going to announce MvC3 v3 and release it soon after, so there's no reason to remove the DLC content so far before the release of the next version. In any case, there's no need to remove the DLC if you're releasing a new version. UMvC3 and MvC3 both still need Jill and Shuma via DLC after all.
Capcom are doing this because of one of the following reasons:
1) They are required to by contract.
2) They hate money.
There is no reason for them to remove the DLC if they are releasing a new SKU or title. There is also no reason for them to remove MvC2 at the same time unless it was because of their contract running out.
Capcom letting it die out with a bang.
GODDAMNIT CAPCOM, I didn't think of this, fuck.