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[Ghazi]

So is working off learning things from raw footage a good idea? I'm watching angelic's stream now and there's some Frank stuff one guy is doing that I'd like to learn, will probably go over the archives later. How did you guys learn new things? I hate being confined to looking up videos, I'd rather figure things out, but I understand that I'm not at a point where I would accomplish/actually figure out anything. I don't spend enough time trying new things in training, but doing things I already know over and over again.

 

[Karsticles]

So is working off learning things from raw footage a good idea? I'm watching angelic's stream now and there's some Frank stuff one guy is doing that I'd like to learn, will probably go over the archives later. How did you guys learn new things? I hate being confined to looking up videos, I'd rather figure things out, but I understand that I'm not at a point where I would accomplish/actually figure out anything. I don't spend enough time trying new things in training, but doing things I already know over and over again.

At this point, it's good to watch players better than yourself and emulate as you learn. It's just a good shortcut. Most people here think I have a Dr. Doom that is at least decent, and I picked him up in a few days through watching F.Champ play. I still learn new things with him all the time, but it was a great jump start to my process.

What needs to happen without any help at all is you figuring out team synergy. Very few people play Jill, so it's on you to see what she has in combination with your teammates. I strongly value figuring these things out for myself, since it is a big part of what makes it "my team".

Ryu

Ryu is extremely honest, which means he is not really that good. As Seth Killian once said, “if you aren’t playing cheap, you aren’t playing the game right”. That basically means not picking Ryu in most matches. Capcom seems to understand this, as Ryu got more new moves in UMvC3 than any other character. The problem here is that all the new moves he got were borderline worthless. Most of these changes we made are so that his useless moves are actually useful, especially his install hyper and its mind-boggling health loss attribute. We also feel that its imperative for him to have a way to combo off of air throws, as his j.H option select into Tatsu L is his more common approach method.

Sentinel

Pre-MvC3, Sentinel was one of the most uniquely designed characters in all of fighting game history. He was an aerial zoner with massive normals that did chip, and his entire game was based on aerial pressure. In MvC3, it seems as though his manufacturing got outsourced for cheaper labor costs. His normals no longer chip, they have weak range compared to several other characters, he is slow, his health is now terrible for one of the biggest bodies in the game, and flying is actually dangerous with him in the neutral! Maybe one of the X-Men cartoon versions snuck in…

When Vanilla was released, Justin Wong hilariously claimed that if you wanted to win in MvC3, you just needed to pick Sentinel. Even toward the end of Vanilla’s life, Sentinel had become heavily marginalized, and it’s not because of his health nerf (though that helped). Sentinel was figured out over time, and now, the list of characters who aren’t bad matchups for him is very small. He still gets picked now for two reasons: Sentinel Force assist, and Hard Drive to escape incoming mix-ups. He is not fun, interesting, or effective to play. We did the best we could to bring him closer to his old self without animation changes, though for him to truly be excellent we believe this would need to change.

She-Hulk

In Vanilla, She-Hulk was a decent character at best and was over nerfed in Ultimate because some of the top players picked her and won tournaments with her while backed by the overpowered Gustaff Fire. Well, Gustaff Fire got nerfed, and She-Hulk along with it. Unfortunately, only the former was necessary, and Vanilla She-Hulk had what we consider to be the toolset necessary for a fundamentals-based character to succeed. We have undone most of the nerfs she received in Ultimate, improved her assists, and gave her some new tools to use. We feel the additional help is necessary because in the long run, it’s not clear that She-Hulk would have continued to be a team stomper in Vanilla. There were bigger fish growing in the Marvel ocean.

Shuma-Gorath

Shuma-Gorath, like Sentinel, is a character filled with obvious weaknesses; he is picked for one reason, and that is his Mystic Ray assist. There are no other reasons to choose Shuma-Gorath, and even Mystic Ray is pummeled by other beam assists, making its value somewhat suspect. He is a character with no real neutral game aside from Mystic Smash spam, and this move has a hitbox so bad it can be air grabbed without effort on reaction. We respect that Shuma-Gorath has some of the best mix-ups in the game with both a command grab and instant overhead through TKed Mystic Smash, but it’s not enough. Shuma-Gorath is also the only character in the entire game who cannot perform a mid-screen combo into a mid-screen hyper without a combination of extraordinary skill and luck. Shuma-Gorath mains drop his combos more often than they complete them, and it is because his j.S spikes enemies so far away from him that players are forced to do difficult, character-relative, timing-sensitive jump loops for their combos. His damage is through the roof in corners, and since we fixed his approach and comboability, this was toned down to be fair. We also gave him a Chaos Dimension follow-up, because right now the move rarely kills characters in level 3 X-Factor. With a universal health buff, the move will only become more pitiful.

Spencer

We feel that Spencer is, for the most part, a well balanced character. The only big issue for him is the lack of damage scaling on his Up Wire Grapple. The only other issue with the character is the excessive vertical reach on Bionic Lancer, which catches most characters even at their maximum jump height. This reduces the “read” component of the hyper, and needs slight tuning. We slightly improved Bionic Bomber to have value outside of combos in accordance with our general philosophy, and also made his overhead safer. This second change alone will do a lot for the character.

Spider-man

Spider-man is one of the most fun characters to play as and watch. However, he really only has value as a point character; the single biggest issue he has is the lack of useful assists. We made some suggestions, and honestly even those don't seem enough. While he is not quite as bad as X-23 or Firebrand, Spider-man would likely need a newly animated move, or some considerable recoding, for his assist toolset to become worthwhile for team building.

One issue we all felt Spider-man has, and that is rarely mentioned, is the safety of his Web Zip approaches. When Ultimate Marvel was released, Capcom had the insight to eliminate blocking during air dashes, dealing a considerable blow to the tridash cast members. For some reason, Spider-man was allowed to retain his ability to block while moving about in the air, creating one of the most defense-able approach characters in the game. This is the kind of thoughtless play we work to get rid of, and we hope that his meager assist improvements will help offset this nerf. We added more mobility options to the move to give it more general utility as well, with the hope that it will gain new utility with its loss.

 

[Professor Beef]

So is working off learning things from raw footage a good idea? I'm watching angelic's stream now and there's some Frank stuff one guy is doing that I'd like to learn, will probably go over the archives later. How did you guys learn new things? I hate being confined to looking up videos, I'd rather figure things out, but I understand that I'm not at a point where I would accomplish/actually figure out anything. I don't spend enough time trying new things in training, but doing things I already know over and over again.

If you're purposely avoiding videos, then you're doing yourself a disservice. The footage is out there for a reason.

 

[Ghazi]

If you're purposely avoiding videos, then you're doing yourself a disservice. The footage is out there for a reason.

Of course not! I understand that, and I appreciate that people do that, because without it I'd still be mashing buttons. But I'm a very DIY person, and I like figuring things out (school especially, #Physics) on my own, regardless of how long it takes. Of course.... this is a bit different than things that use equations and common sense. I've learned so much just from watching streams, let alone bnb videos. I was just complaining moreso about not figuring more things out on my own, and how I feel I'm taking other people's effort and work sometimes.

At this point, it's good to watch players better than yourself and emulate as you learn. It's just a good shortcut. Most people here think I have a Dr. Doom that is at least decent, and I picked him up in a few days through watching F.Champ play. I still learn new things with him all the time, but it was a great jump start to my process.

What needs to happen without any help at all is you figuring out team synergy. Very few people play Jill, so it's on you to see what she has in combination with your teammates. I strongly value figuring these things out for myself, since it is a big part of what makes it "my team".

I've done that to an extent with my Jill, I absolutely adore Paulow3b and (Non)SexualRice (that guy who did the Jill infinite on someone here). I love watching them play, and I've picked up some mix ups from their videos, and just reading Sexual Rice and other's posts on SRK has helped. One post I always think of is when Sexual Rice told someone: "Move smart, not fast" in conjunction with them asking help with movement in Feral stance. My movement has improved a bit with Jill as well.

I think I've settled on a final team to play though: Jill/Frank/Dante (all characters I already have played and have at least experience with), tons of DHC and TAC options for all of them and synergy works well with Shopping Cart and Jam Session. Vergil isn't that hard to play anyway, and it's not like I'm losing too much without Rapid Slash. Although RIP Spiral Swords DHC safety belt, you will be missed.


I also need to figure out how to bridge into my main Jill jump loop BnB, because it starts with an H and ends up failing if you start with a L or M, and I can't exactly just run up to people mashing H. Generally I get combos off of straight up Somersaults, I need to work on it more I guess.

 

[Karsticles]

I've done that to an extent with my Jill, I absolutely adore Paulow3b and (Non)SexualRice (that guy who did the Jill infinite on someone here). I love watching them play, and I've picked up some mix ups from their videos, and just reading Sexual Rice and other's posts on SRK has helped. One post I always think of is when Sexual Rice told someone: "Move smart, not fast" in conjunction with them asking help with movement in Feral stance. My movement has improved a bit with Jill as well.

I think I've settled on a final team to play though: Jill/Frank/Dante (all characters I already have played and have at least experience with), tons of DHC and TAC options for all of them and synergy works well with Shopping Cart and Jam Session. Vergil isn't that hard to play anyway, and it's not like I'm losing too much without Rapid Slash. Although RIP Spiral Swords DHC safety belt, you will be missed.


I also need to figure out how to bridge into my main Jill jump loop BnB, because it starts with an H and ends up failing if you start with a L or M, and I can't exactly just run up to people mashing H. Generally I get combos off of straight up Somersaults, I need to work on it more I guess.

Consider moving Dante second. You lose TACs to Frank West, but here is what you gain:
1) A safe DHC to your second character.
2) Better options for dodging incoming mixups.
3) Machine Gun Spray + Million Dollars THC for 2 bars instead of 3.

Just something to consider - it might be a bad change, but I think it's worth experimenting with.

 

[Dahbomb]

Only 13 characters to go!

Zissou you have the patch list? That thing is pretty much done, just gotta get Karst's character changes and we will have completed it.. minus one final revision.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

So is working off learning things from raw footage a good idea? I'm watching angelic's stream now and there's some Frank stuff one guy is doing that I'd like to learn, will probably go over the archives later. How did you guys learn new things? I hate being confined to looking up videos, I'd rather figure things out, but I understand that I'm not at a point where I would accomplish/actually figure out anything. I don't spend enough time trying new things in training, but doing things I already know over and over again.

I don't watch a lot of videos. I just try shit during online matches. To me it's the perfect playground. You should watch vids though....It's just not something I do very often

 

[Ghazi]

Consider moving Dante second. You lose TACs to Frank West, but here is what you gain:
1) A safe DHC to your second character.
2) Better options for dodging incoming mixups.
3) Machine Gun Spray + Million Dollars THC for 2 bars instead of 3.

Just something to consider - it might be a bad change, but I think it's worth experimenting with.

I thought Frank didn't work well anchor position, though you're right the DHC from MGS to Million Dollars is godlike since they just slide into it so perfectly. With the current easy mode team I play (Jill/Dante/Vergil) DHCing to Devil Trigger works well. I just thought to put Dante in anchor because I have more experience with him as compared to Frank,where if I get down to him I'll probably have already lost by then, I also thought having Frank as battery would give me more opportunities to level him up. I'll mess around with the order this weekend when I'm playing online and locals.


One thing a friend brought to me last month when playing, was that I play my Dante too much like Vergil, I mentioned this to someone who was talking to me at the arcade and they agreed as well. One thing I'm noticing, as I go over Yipes and Sum Brown kid (shoutouts to this awesome guy yo), ShadyK footage (and any Dante, really). Is a lot of jumping, airdashing, and what appears to be j. M or H? I see everyone do this, but I've never seen anyone give a reason why or what it accomplishes really, is it another one of those style things? They also use a lot of Air Play, which I know is a great move, but I don't really use it because it seems to have low durability and I can't combo off it. For Dante, I really badly need to work off conversions from assists and getting combos off of a lot of his moves. As it stands I can only combo off a grounded opponent who is close to me or hitting someone in who is jumping, then going to S and his regular bnb.

I don't watch a lot of videos. I just try shit during online matches. To me it's the perfect playground. You should watch vids though....It's just not something I do very often

I'm very timid on online, only until summer of this year was I not scared of going online, my hands would start sweating and my heart would start racing. It just really scared me if I wasn't playing against my friends, probably because we were all starting at the same level together. Of course, they now all have 3,000+ hours in the game and are actually good at it. I usually don't mess around online, because I'm trying to just get the basics down. I watch videos, but probably not as much as I should. I usually prefer reading stuff on boards from SRK or here, but if I'm learning something completely new a visual guide is pretty helpful.

 

[Karsticles]

I thought Frank didn't work well anchor position, though you're right the DHC from MGS to Million Dollars is godlike since they just slide into it so perfectly. With the current easy mode team I play (Jill/Dante/Vergil) DHCing to Devil Trigger works well. I just thought to put Dante in anchor because I have more experience with him as compared to Frank,where if I get down to him I'll probably have already lost by then, I also thought having Frank as battery would give me more opportunities to level him up. I'll mess around with the order this weekend when I'm playing online and locals.

Hmm? I said the THC, not the DHC. Just being clear.

Frank West is not a good anchor, but your goal is not to anchor him. It's to use Dante to ensure he comes in safely. Frank West is pretty free on incoming thanks to no aerial mobility. You want to DHC Frank West in via Dante ASAP, ideally via a combo. If we play again, I'll show you what I mean, since I do this with my team. I think everyone who has played me can vouch that it's worthwhile for me to spend the extra bar to DHC Dormammu in safely.

One thing a friend brought to me last month when playing, was that I play my Dante too much like Vergil, I mentioned this to someone who was talking to me at the arcade and they agreed as well. One thing I'm noticing, as I go over Yipes and Sum Brown kid (shoutouts to this awesome guy yo), ShadyK footage (and any Dante, really). Is a lot of jumping, airdashing, and what appears to be j. M or H? I see everyone do this, but I've never seen anyone give a reason why or what it accomplishes really, is it another one of those style things? They also use a lot of Air Play, which I know is a great move, but I don't really use it because it seems to have low durability and I can't combo off it. For Dante, I really badly need to work off conversions from assists and getting combos off of a lot of his moves. As it stands I can only combo off a grounded opponent who is close to me or hitting someone in who is jumping, then going to S and his regular bnb.

j.H is an amazing normal for Dante. Hold forward to get the throw option select, and it crosses up as well. It's his best approach normal by far. Air Play isn't about getting combos, it's about putting your opponent in blockstun so you can start applying pressure safely. It paves Dante's way, it doesn't win the match on its own.

I'm very timid on online, only until summer of this year was I not scared of going online, my hands would start sweating and my heart would start racing. It just really scared me if I wasn't playing against my friends, probably because we were all starting at the same level together. Of course, they now all have 3,000+ hours in the game and are actually good at it. I usually don't mess around online, because I'm trying to just get the basics down. I watch videos, but probably not as much as I should. I usually prefer reading stuff on boards from SRK or here, but if I'm learning something completely new a visual guide is pretty helpful.

Well, everyone here is a friend. No one mocks anyone else when they lose. Our goal is to improve and have fun.

 

[Karsticles]

Storm

Storm is a superb character. In another game meta, she might not need changes at all. However, just as Wolverine is the measuring stick for rushdown characters, Magneto is the measure for tridash characters. Storm simply does not measure up, despite being a solid character. Her main issue is that almost all of her specials moves are horrible, which is doubly a crime because weather effects are an endless hat to pull ideas from. Most of her changes are aimed to make her special moves (Typhoon, Whirlwind and Lightning Sphere) better as zoning tools. In addition we felt that Storm is mostly a support character but her main problem as a support character is that she lacks any decent assist, and we felt that, just like Dormammu, she would be an excellent candidate for a tracking assist in her Typhoon. We also improved her hit confirms and reduced her flight startup so she has better combo options and is able to build slightly more meter. However, perhaps the biggest change we made to Storm is allowing her to call assists after superjumping through Float, just as she could in Vanilla. She was not exceptionally strong in Vanilla, and Float was “her mechanic”. It gave her an interesting neutral, and now she’s more limited and linear in her game. Storm players typically jump, air dash up, and then float, which largely provides the same effect as her Vanilla self, but with worse game flow.

Strider

Strider gets picked solely for his comeback ability and Vajra. With the combined unique power of Vajra, Ouroboros, and his level 3 X-Factor, he is a solid anchor character. However, that is his only solid position, and he thus leaves one wanting. He doesn't do a lot of damage, and he has low health, but he also has a lot of tools. We made some adjustments to the characters to improve his point play; he needs very little balancing aside from the damage buff we provided for him. He would still be a low health/low damage character, and that's fine given his incredible toolset. Vajra assist is a bit too rewarding for its risk level (especially since it can combo break and does so frequently, even into full combos), and the OTGs it offers are reminiscent of the irritating opportunities Vanilla Double Lariat provided. We toned the hard knockdown time slightly to ensure Vajra users have to be awake to convert off a stray aerial knockdown.

Super-Skrull

Super-Skrull is the very definition of a high-risk, high-reward-type character. However as a solid competitive character this aspect holds him back. He is a very unsafe character on point, and he is mostly used as an anchor character where he uses "random" meteor smashes to catch players into a death combo. In addition, a lot of his moves are useless, and we feel that should be addressed along with his generally unsafe play. Finally, changed his assists dramatically, as Tenderizer H assist allows for lockdown on incoming characters that lead to unblockables, but the assist isn't really useful for anything else. Instead we would rather have Tenderizer L assist, which is more useful in more situations and would be like a second option to Cold Star. We added Meteor Smash as an assist to provide an alternative to Vajra, although we greatly adjusted its attributes for balance purposes.

We also returned “He loves you!” to Super-Skrull’s voice arsenal. This clip was on the same level as “Bionic……AAAAAARRRM!” in epicness and repeatability. We understand that it was removed for canon-related reasons, and we do not care. Hulk is dumb in this game, Magneto is still on a mission to unite mutants against mankind, Galactus gets beat up by a guy with a machine gun, and Wolverine shoots lasers out of his claw somehow. Give the alien his awesome quote back!

Taskmaster

Taskmaster is the Ryu of the Marvel side. He doesn't have a lot of tools, but what he has is solid. The main controversy around Taskmaster is his unblockable, which is the most situational and least powerful out of all the unblockables. Most Taskmaster players would rather have a more solid mix up tool like a standing overhead over an unblockable, so we implemented this change. Essentially, he lost a gimmick and gained a tool. Other than that, the character is fine.

Thor

While we feel that Thor is underrated by a lot of players, he definitely has faults. One of the biggest weaknesses he has is that he is extremely susceptible to rushdown. That is because his ground movement is pretty much non-existent, he lacks a deterrent move (armor, etc.), and his normals are slow likemost other heavy characters in the game. Thor also lacks a safe blockstring of any kind, and a few of his moves lack potency. Thor is the type of character who can get a lot better with a few minor tweaks. An armored normal, faster Mighty Strikes, Mighty Spark as a safe blockstring tool, and increased distance on his air dash will make him into a solid character.

Trish

Trish is kind of like storm: technically, a very good overall character with some great tools and excellent mobility, but she’s not Magneto. Like Storm, we feel that some of her moves lack potency, such as Round Trip. Most importantly, she lacks a way to get a combo off of her air throw, and she in general lacks an OTG move for combo and team versatility. Finally, Trish has a level 3 that adds very little damage to her combos due to having to cut the combo duration in half. In general, her utility as a point character and a teammate has improved, and we expect that she will be the harassment queen she was meant to be.

Tron Bonne

Tron was a mediocre-to-bad point character in Vanilla, and in Ultimate she is an even worse character. Her sole virtue in the original release was Gustaff Fire, and while we understand (and approve of) that being taken away, she was also nerfed on point…for reasons we do not understand at all – it is fairly mind-boggling for the Marvel community. The j.H nerf was harsh, especially since the move can be consistently anti-aired and dealt with using proper play. We gave her new tools to control rushdown characters, such as reducing the hurt box on Gustaff Flame to counter tridash characters so she has a strong defensive move (she is the only heavy without armor now, and requires just compensation). We improved her mobility, nearly all of her specials, and her throw game, and we think this is all entirely needed. However, perhaps her best change is a minimum air height reduction, which ensures she has more approach options in the neutral.

Vergil

Vergil is a frequent candidate for the best character in the game, and he is undoubtedly one of the best anchors. Several of our system changes address Vergil as an anchor character, but these alone are insufficient. Vergil makes use of a few blatant glitches/exploits to win matches, like his Round Trip glitch and the random cross-up Dimension Slash provides when used (which, when X-Factored, leads to a dead character). However, these issues are relatively minor in relation to Vergil’s level 1 hyper, Spiral Swords. Spiral Swords is likely the best level 1 hyper in the game. For 1 bar it provides a mobile shield barrier with a hitbox, covers mistakes, provides lockdown, deals significant chip damage when combined with Round Trip and assists, gives him an easy and safe entry method, and leads to mix-ups and pressure. The move is just ridiculously good, and one can only imagine what the game would be like if Vergil’s sword formation changes were free, as Seth Killian said they originally were. By making this hyper a level 2 and giving free sword formation changes, we retain Vergil’s general threat level while ensuring he cannot pin teams down for a significant portion of the match; players will need a plan before spending those 2 bars. Devil Trigger will get a lot more use in the stead of Spiral Swords.

We also feel that Helm Breaker is a bit too advantageous as a dive kick-esque move right now, especially with its ability to counter chicken blocking by canceling the recovery into s.S, s.H, and then a special. We are fine with him having large normals, as it is a counter-balance Vergil’s normals not being cancelable on whiff. Vergil players will have to use a lot more of his tools aside from Spiral Swords followed by 50/50 mix-ups now, and this should provide a more interesting game for everyone involved.

Viewtiful Joe

Viewtiful Joe is in Spider-man territory. He is a fantastic character, but has no team value, so he is rarely chosen; we did our best to improve his assists to balance this out. In general, the game boasts too many “point characters”, which leads to a general collapse of team variety in the tournament scene. The main thing Viewtiful Joe needs is an OTG move, such as the OTG-capable Red Hot Kick he had in pre-release, so that he has access to more combo options and the ability to combo off of his air throw. Also, despite watching Dieminion chip entire teams out with assist-less charged Voomerang spam, we do not think this move needs a nerf. Most of the move’s power is gotten through visual confusion – the Voomerang’s animation does not leave when its hitbox dies, and players do not know when they can stop blocking, which makes it easy to pin the player down. Fixing the animation to disappear when it should will solve the problem.

Almost...done...

 

[shaowebb]

Just got home. Is it out?

 

[Karsticles]

Just got home. Is it out?

We are doing the last round of edits tonight, and then it is being sent out tomorrow.

 

[Ghazi]

Hmm? I said the THC, not the DHC. Just being clear.

I see now, I still don't know how to select specific characters for a DHC (I actually don't know if you actually can without the third being dead).

Frank West is not a good anchor, but your goal is not to anchor him. It's to use Dante to ensure he comes in safely. Frank West is pretty free on incoming thanks to no aerial mobility. You want to DHC Frank West in via Dante ASAP, ideally via a combo. If we play again, I'll show you what I mean, since I do this with my team. I think everyone who has played me can vouch that it's worthwhile for me to spend the extra bar to DHC Dormammu in safely.

That makes sense, I could hopefully see me going from a combo to Million Dollars -> Survival Techniques or Blue Light Special if they're too far. I will be on to play on Friday afternoon and a little bit of Saturday, so whenever you're on, just post here or whatever since I'll probably spend more time playing on my fightstick on the 360.

j.H is an amazing normal for Dante. Hold forward to get the throw option select, and it crosses up as well. It's his best approach normal by far. Air Play isn't about getting combos, it's about putting your opponent in blockstun so you can start applying pressure safely. It paves Dante's way, it doesn't win the match on its own.

Now that you mention it, I recall people dashing right over the heads of their opponents and doing heavy right before it's going to switch the opponent character's sides so it's hard to block it. All I know is that you're supposed to superjump->really fast airdash above opponent->heavy->S and further (but you can only do S if you time it right, because they recover before you hit the ground if you do it too early)

Well, everyone here is a friend. No one mocks anyone else when they lose. Our goal is to improve and have fun.

I meant I had been scared to go online until I started talking to you guys, not I wasn't scared of going online until this year. But yeah, talking to people about it has helped open me up to it a lot.

 

[shaowebb]

We are doing the last round of edits tonight, and then it is being sent out tomorrow.

*loooooooong whistle*

Gonna be cutting it close. Good luck.

 

[Zissou]

Only 13 characters to go!

Zissou you have the patch list? That thing is pretty much done, just gotta get Karst's character changes and we will have completed it.. minus one final revision.

I'm at work right now, but I'll be done in about two hours, and then my first order of business to look over the formatting stuff to double-check for consistency (who finished doing it btw?). Then I'm going to proofread all of the remaining character summaries that I haven't looked at to weed out grammar mistakes and fix issues with wording. After that, I'll update the non-annotated change list so that it's the same as annotated one. What's left to do after that?

I have a suggestion for formatting and implement it if people say it's cool. All of the text that isn't a header is italicized. I assume this is to make the headers stand out more, but I think they stand out just fine, and non-italic text would be more readable.

 

[Karsticles]

Gentlemen, I am heading to bed - I will check the thread when I wake up before I send the Tweets out. I trust you guys to make good decisions.

I'm at work right now, but I'll be done in about two hours, and then my first order of business to look over the formatting stuff to double-check for consistency (who finished doing it btw?). Then I'm going to proofread all of the remaining character summaries that I haven't looked at to weed out grammar mistakes and fix issues with wording. After that, I'll update the non-annotated change list so that it's the same as annotated one. What's left to do after that?

I have a suggestion for formatting and implement it if people say it's cool. All of the text that isn't a header is italicized. I assume this is to make the headers stand out more, but I think they stand out just fine, and non-italic text would be more readable.

Formatting is not my strong-suit. You are welcome to reformat the documents another way if you think it would look better. I trust you to make a good decision.

Dahbomb finished the formatting (yay!). I have ~3 more character summaries to do. They are all in the last page or two.

After we do the updates you suggested, I think there are only two things left to do:
1) Someone needs to PM me the Twitter list.
2) Someone needs to edit in the contributor list. I don't know where this should go - I trust someone else will work the detail out, and none of us will be too picky about it.

Dahbomb and Zissou, thank you both for jumping in and helping with all the annotation work. I was worried about being able to handle it all myself.

*loooooooong whistle*

Gonna be cutting it close. Good luck.

Zissou works while we sleep - we will be fine. ;-) We have 24-hour shift coverage going.

Wesker

Wesker is an interesting case. At Vanilla’s conclusion, he was considered a top character thanks to Viscant winning Evo with him. When Ultimate came around, he was largely felt to have been buffed, and much rage ensued. However, over time Wesker has proven to be less and less relevant in the tournament scene as stronger character combinations arise. Despite this fact, Wesker is still a solid character. His primary problem is that his counters are rarely worth using in matches; we want Wesker to be a counter-heavy mix- up character like his moveset suggests he is, which is why we buffed every single one of his counters. This rewards smart Wesker play, and we would love to see a new era of Wesker players who do more than gunshot into teleport while backed by a beam, followed by either c.L or a command grab for the mix-up. We also feel that Wesker's glasses mechanics rewards bad habits (i.e. throwing out random hypers) and needs to be revised to encourage thoughtful play. Most other changes on the character are fixes. Finally, we would like to see better neutral assists on Wesker; Samurai Edge is a no-brainer here.

Wolverine

Wolverine has a reputation for being a cheap and scrubby character, but the truth is that he is the epitome of a hard rushdown character. In every instance where a rushdown character was being balanced, Wolverine set the standard. This is appropriate, because he really does set the standard in tournament rushdown – his excellence is why X-23 goes unpicked. The only issue on the character is that he does a ton of damage for little effort: specifically, his chainable Fatal Claw hyper definitely needs to be toned down. His other issues would be fixed in our suggested system mechanic changes (option select Dive kick is now gone). In return, we feel that he should have better assists; his Berserker Barrage should be changed to a fully mashed H version for maximum lockdown effect.

X-23

X-23 is in the same boat as Felicia and Jill. She has to compete against Wolverine, and she does not succeed. She feels weak compared to him, and we have aimed to rectify this. We feel it’s imperative that she has combo consistency when it comes to converting from aerial hits and throws just like Wolverine, along with a better set of air normals. We also want better assists on her, but her toolset doesn't make for great assists. We left her level 3 intact because while it is technically “1 player game” material, it seems fair for her to have this tool for 3 bars of meter when other character combinations get unblockable resets for 1 (Trish Round Harvest setups, for example). It is not possible to remove all unblockable setups, so those that remain should be difficult or costly to set up.

Zero

Zero is another candidate for “the best character in the game”, especially after Flocker won Evo 2013 with him. He has the absolute best set of incoming mix-ups in the game paired with the highest damage-per-meter combos the game has to offer under common circumstances. His neutral game is also excellent, as he can create hit boxes on the screen which he can convert into full combos while being completely free of risk. We feel that these are the main issues with the character, which is why we suggested to remove the soft knockdown property on Raikousen, lowered his damage scaling by a considerable amount, and removed his ability to create a Raikousen hit box via Buster cancel (which we like to think of as an unintended bug). These changes would still mean that he has a beastly mix-ups/reset game, but he wouldn't be able to kill off of every touch. We didn’t remove Lightning Loops because they take a lot of practice, and we are generally against removing combo potential. However, we are fine with them being removed for improved gameplay flow if Capcom feels that is the best decision.

All done!

 

[Dahbomb]

I have a suggestion for formatting and implement it if people say it's cool. All of the text that isn't a header is italicized. I assume this is to make the headers stand out more, but I think they stand out just fine, and non-italic text would be more readable.

That's fine by me. I can help you with that right after I edit in Karst's character explanations.


IT IS COMPLETED!!!!!

Clocking in at a STAGGERING 112 pages.

 

[Sigmaah]

That's fine by me. I can help you with that right after I edit in Karst's character explanations.


IT IS COMPLETED!!!!!

Clocking in at a STAGGERING 112 pages.

JESUS CHRIST.

IT'S FINALLY OVER!!! YAY!!! CONGRATS HOMIES!!!

 

[biosnake20]

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

That's fine by me. I can help you with that right after I edit in Karst's character explanations.


IT IS COMPLETED!!!!!

Clocking in at a STAGGERING 112 pages.

My God...

 

[Zissou]

Working on final grammar and formatting changes now!

 

[shaowebb]

That's fine by me. I can help you with that right after I edit in Karst's character explanations.


IT IS COMPLETED!!!!!

Clocking in at a STAGGERING 112 pages.

JESUS CHRIST.

IT'S FINALLY OVER!!! YAY!!! CONGRATS HOMIES!!!

My God...

Working on final grammar and formatting changes now!

 

[Frantic]

Good job, guys. You've really pulled out all the stops these past couple of days. Meanwhile, I'm over here picking my nose and yet my name still gets added to the committee list!

But seriously, great job, Karst, Dahbomb, Zissou. T'was a fun and interesting experience, and maybe, somehow, we'll actually see it actually become real. Believe.

 

[Zissou]

Grammar/wording check done and I made some minor formatting changes to improve readability. Now time to do the non-annotated list. I've gotta do some stuff, but I'll be on it again pretty soon. All that's left is deleting the remaining annotations in the non-annotated list. We almost there!

 

[enzo_gt]

I demand to see at least a reaction from a Capcom or Marvel employee before Capcom Cup. Not even a reaction, just acknowledgement.

You guys think this deserves its own thread? Pretty huge GAF effort IMO.

 

[Karsticles]

We planned on giving it a.thread, but I am not good at that.

Zissou, are you all done then?

 

[onionfrog]

Great job on the list guys!
Let me know when it's been sent out!

 

[shaowebb]

So is it sent?

 

[Karsticles]

So is it sent?

I will send it in about an hour when I go to work and am at my laptop.

 

[Tirael]

I'm so excited! Everyone here deserves a round of applause.

Spoiler

Except for Beef.

Spoiler

kappa

Can I get a link to the patch notes?

 

[shaowebb]

Once its officially sent out, I'll post a thread linking to the official notes you guys settled upon on TYM so that their Marvel crowd can view it to. Believe it or not quite a few folks there came from this game like I did...even more from KoF 13 oddly enough. They'll probably enjoy reading through this and do the usual two cents commentary, but attention is attention and no one really talks about Marvel much these days.

It''ll be great getting folks going again.

 

[Karsticles]

Um, Zissou, the basic patch note list has annotations all over the place - are you still working on removing those and changing the formatting?

Edit: Amazing. Twitter has an internal server error when I try to send them out. -_-

 

[Karsticles]

I need someone to submit the list to Eventhubs. My work internet has it blocked as "adult games" - lol.

Sent to SRK
Posted on SRK forums
Posted on GFAQs forums
Posted on Capcom-Unity forums
Sent to @TheComboFiend
Sent to @cbake76 (Chris Baker)
Sent to @JayViscant
Sent to @Yoshiri_OnoChin
Sent to @UltraChenTV
Sent to @Ryoto_Niitsuma
Sent to @Capcom_Unity
Sent to @Haunts
Sent to @Shady_K
Sent to @fchampryan
Sent to @MattDeezie
Sent to @Maximillian_

Is @Magus the Twitter for Magus? I don't know what his real name is to be certain.

Otherwise, I think that's everyone.

Edit: I removed all annotations from the shortened patch notes.

 

[onionfrog]

I need someone to submit the list to Eventhubs. My work internet has it blocked as "adult games" - lol.

Sent to SRK
Posted on SRK forums
Posted on GFAQs forums
Posted on Capcom-Unity forums
Sent to @TheComboFiend
Sent to @cbake76 (Chris Baker)
Sent to @JayViscant
Sent to @Yoshiri_OnoChin
Sent to @UltraChenTV
Sent to @Ryoto_Niitsuma
Sent to @Capcom_Unity
Sent to @Haunts
Sent to @Shady_K
Sent to @fchampryan
Sent to @MattDeezie
Sent to @Maximillian_

Is @Magus the Twitter for Magus? I don't know what his real name is to be certain.

Otherwise, I think that's everyone.

Edit: I removed all annotations from the shortened patch notes.

Hey Karst,
It looks like the link in the document that is supposed to take you to the annotated patch notes just takes you to the shortened list again.

After checking the URL's for both, I think the shortened list has been accidentally linked to itself!

 

[Karsticles]

Hey Karst,
It looks like the link in the document that is supposed to take you to the annotated patch notes just takes you to the shortened list again.

After checking the URL's for both, I think the shortened list has been accidentally linked to itself!

Whoops! Fixed, and thank you!

 

[onionfrog]

Whoops! Fixed, and thank you!

Great!

If you can edit tweets after you've sent them, can you add #umvc3 if there are enough characters left to spare in the tweet?

It should really be hash tagged with umvc3 if we can fit it in.

 

[Zissou]

I need someone to submit the list to Eventhubs. My work internet has it blocked as "adult games" - lol.

Sent to SRK
Posted on SRK forums
Posted on GFAQs forums
Posted on Capcom-Unity forums
Sent to @TheComboFiend
Sent to @cbake76 (Chris Baker)
Sent to @JayViscant
Sent to @Yoshiri_OnoChin
Sent to @UltraChenTV
Sent to @Ryoto_Niitsuma
Sent to @Capcom_Unity
Sent to @Haunts
Sent to @Shady_K
Sent to @fchampryan
Sent to @MattDeezie
Sent to @Maximillian_

Is @Magus the Twitter for Magus? I don't know what his real name is to be certain.

Otherwise, I think that's everyone.

Edit: I removed all annotations from the shortened patch notes.

You are a life-saver! I'm on my home now and the last thing I'm going to do is change the formatting of the non-annotated list slightly since there's no need for the bold text to differentiate between changes and annotations. Then we should be good to go. Karst- are you cool with the final formatting of the annotated list? Give it a look and tell me what you think. Probably the biggest change is that I made the character names stand out more so that when scrolling through, it would be easy to tell where one character's stuff ended and the next began.

 

[onionfrog]

You are a life-saver! I'm on my home now and the last thing I'm going to do is change the formatting of the non-annotated list slightly since there's no need for the bold text to differentiate between changes and annotations. Then we should be good to go. Karst- are you cool with the final formatting of the annotated list? Give it a look and tell me what you think. Probably the biggest change is that I made the character names stand out more so that when scrolling through, it would be easy to tell where one character's stuff ended and the next began.

I dig the character names being in red. It makes it much easier to scroll through the document and find specific changes.


....
And now we wait...

 

[FSLink]

Great job on the patch list guys, hopefully it gets some good recognition at Capcom Cup.

 

[Karsticles]

Great!

If you can edit tweets after you've sent them, can you add #umvc3 if there are enough characters left to spare in the tweet?

It should really be hash tagged with umvc3 if we can fit it in.

Too late to edit - sorry. :-( I am not a Twitter monster, so I didn't even think of a hashtag. Feel free to RT it and start something though.

You are a life-saver! I'm on my home now and the last thing I'm going to do is change the formatting of the non-annotated list slightly since there's no need for the bold text to differentiate between changes and annotations. Then we should be good to go. Karst- are you cool with the final formatting of the annotated list? Give it a look and tell me what you think. Probably the biggest change is that I made the character names stand out more so that when scrolling through, it would be easy to tell where one character's stuff ended and the next began.

I like it, but if you have time, would you underline the character names? I think it makes the formatting look nicer. I like the change to red - good idea.

 

[onionfrog]

Too late to edit - sorry. :-( I am not a Twitter monster, so I didn't even think of a hashtag. Feel free to RT it and start something though.

Oh, I don't use twitter enough to have any followers. Perhaps someone who does can Retweet it with hash tags at some point. (Enzo?)
No biggie though, I'm glad the notes are out!

 

[Zissou]

I like it, but if you have time, would you underline the character names? I think it makes the formatting look nicer. I like the change to red - good idea.

Underlines complete! I still have a few issues with things- mainly that we are a bit inconsistent in terminology, like whether super jump is one word or two, or if the "v" in MVC3 should be lower or uppercase. Hopefully, I'll have time to go through in a day or two and do a final once over for the sake of consistency. Otherwise, everything is finished

 

[Karsticles]

Underlines complete! I still have a few issues with things- mainly that we are a bit inconsistent in terminology, like whether super jump is one word or two, or if the "v" in MVC3 should be lower or uppercase. Hopefully, I'll have time to go through in a day or two and do a final once over for the sake of consistency. Otherwise, everything is finished

"v" should be lower case.

Superjump should be one word.

Mix-up with a hyphen.

Cross-up with a hyphen.

I know I was inconsistent on a few things there.

Who is making the GAF thread?

 

[Zissou]

"v" should be lower case.

Superjump should be one word.

Mix-up with a hyphen.

Cross-up with a hyphen.

I know I was inconsistent on a few things there.

Who is making the GAF thread?

Noted- will change accordingly when I have the chance.

Dahbomb doesn't seem to be around at the moment, so it'll be either you or myself. I don't care much either way. It should also be posted in this week's FGC Weekly thread and probably the Capcom Cup thread as well.

 

[Tirael]

I fear that we didn't have enough fanfare. The posts on Capcom Unity and SRK are basically just, "Here it is". It makes no mention of how hard everyone worked on it and how robust and exhaustive our list is.

 

[Karsticles]

I fear that we didn't have enough fanfare. The posts on Capcom Unity and SRK are basically just, "Here it is". It makes no mention of how hard everyone worked on it and how robust and exhaustive our list is.

People tend not to even read long posts. ;-)

I had an intro typed out with all that stuff, but Zissou DELETED most of it. :-( I really liked all that, and I might add it back tonight.

 

[TWILT]

The Capcom Unity MvC forums were beyond dead last I was there. Not surprising there aren't any posts there.

Great work on the patch notes by the way guys. Already said it before, but I really hope they listen and maybe, just maybe, we'll get something out of this.

 

[onionfrog]

People tend not to even read long posts. ;-)

I had an intro typed out with all that stuff, but Zissou DELETED most of it. :-( I really liked all that, and I might add it back tonight.

Haha. The perils of having multiple people making changes to the same files.

I know this feeling well from my job!

Coordinating changes can be a mess if its not handled well.

Spoiler

<3 Version Control and file checkout systems

 

[Zissou]

People tend not to even read long posts. ;-)

I had an intro typed out with all that stuff, but Zissou DELETED most of it. :-( I really liked all that, and I might add it back tonight.

Wait, what did I delete O_O?

edit: I've gotta get to bed- do what you've gotta do!

 

[Tirael]

People tend not to even read long posts. ;-)

I had an intro typed out with all that stuff, but Zissou DELETED most of it. :-( I really liked all that, and I might add it back tonight.

I agree completely, but I think even something as simple as, "This took months of hard work, and each change was approved by committee" would be worth stating.

Edit: Someone basically stated what I was feeling on the first reply of the SRK thread. And look at the next post, I remember at least one person in this thread predicting a reaction like that.

Double edit: I withdraw my previous statement about it needing an intro. None of that will matter once it starts gaining traction. I think it already has.