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[Dreams-Visions]

lol

Guy on CNN pulled a part of tomahawk from gaddafi compound

lol, damn.

"our bad. how did that get here?"

 

[Zeke]

what are they hitting now?

 

[WedgeX]

It always should have been Hands, but my D key wasn't working when I registered. I figured it was now sort of a Simpsons/MST3K references too, so I figured I might as well keep it.

I've always read "Hans" in the voice of:

 

[Snake]

Why did it take me this long to realize your username was "Manos: The Hans of Fate" and not Hands?

This is almost as shocking as when I found out the character from Peep Show is supposed to be "Super Hans" and not "Super Hands."

Took 7 seasons.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

what are they hitting now?

Supposedly just nailed on of Gaddafi's compounds that had AA installations.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Ok, is there an agreed upon way to spell his name? I see Gaddafi and Gadhafi as the two major ways, and then various other minor ways and misspellings.

 

[sphagnum]

Ok, is there an agreed upon way to spell his name? I see Gaddafi and Gadhafi as the two major ways, and then various other minor ways and misspellings.

There's no official way. I prefer Gaddafi, easiest to remember.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Ok, is there an agreed upon way to spell his name? I see Gaddafi and Gadhafi as the two major ways, and then various other minor ways and misspellings.

It's my understanding that the only "proper" way to spell his name is in Arabic. Everything else is a rough translation.

 

[teruterubozu]

Ok, is there an agreed upon way to spell his name? I see Gaddafi and Gadhafi as the two major ways, and then various other minor ways and misspellings.

In the 80s the media used to spell it "Kaddafi", but the recent "G" seems more accurate.

 

[damisa]

Qaddafi is the most accurate way, Kadaffi the second most. I have no idea how the western media got Gadaffi, his name starts with a hard K sound.

 

[Escape Goat]

I've always read "Hans" in the voice of:

Hah, I'm watching that right now.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I've always read "Hans" in the voice of:

That's not too bad either! lol

 

[N-Bomb]

Check it, foos:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muammar_Gaddafi#Name

Be nice if the west would come to a consensus on which one to use, though.

 

[RustyNails]

Qaddafi is the most accurate way, Kadaffi the second most. I have no idea how the western media got Gadaffi, his name starts with a hard K sound.

Here's the proper way to pronounce his name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ar-Muammar_al-Qaddafi.ogg

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

BBC:
#
0051: He appealed for more foreign help: "The international community has to take its responsibility for Libyan citizens in Misrata. If they don't, they will die. Believe me, they will die. It has to take its responsibility in front of the civilians, it has to do something. 1973 said protect the civilians. Protect us please."
#
0049: The doctor in Misrata said the international coalition was not responsible for any civilian deaths or injuries. "I know the areas where they bombed. All of the casualties came from areas which were being bombed by Gaddafi militants."
#
0046: The doctor added: "Our medical team has been working non-stop since last Tuesday. They are so exhausted. Our resources are almost finished. We ask the international community to at least secure passage for medical supplies and food. We have no water. Yesterday, there were 16 civilian deaths. Today, there were seven civilian deaths. All the injuries you could imagine - head, chest, laparotomy, crushed limbs and amputations. I haven't got the resources to sustain them. In two or three days, I will have to leave all the injured patients dying and bleeding. I have no more resources."
#
0043: Earlier, a doctor at a hospital in Misrata, Libya's third city, told BBC Radio 5 live that the city was being attacked by forces loyal to Col Gaddafi. "Since early morning [on Sunday], they have been bombarding everything - all the buildings, all the homes, nobody is secure in this city," he said. "Gaddafi's militants and more than 25 tanks have been entering and bombarding the city. There are snipers all over. If you leave your front door, you are a target. I am not secure in the hospital and I cannot go home. I have not seen my family for a week. There is no secure way to get home."

Reposting this for the new page because it would be a shame if it got buried.

It sounds like it's already a mess there with the military inside the populated areas. That's probably what makes it tricky for airstrikes.

 

[RustyNails]

That doctor in Misrata is a goddamn hero.

 

[exarkun]

Reposting this for the new page because it would be a shame if it got buried.

It sounds like it's already a mess there with the military inside the populated areas. That's probably what makes it tricky for airstrikes.

God, it sounds like its already the beginning of the end. Though, the UN is in an odd place with one foot in the fire and one foot out. No ground troops but a ton of air support, when it now sounds like the ground war is intensifying.

When/if Qaddafi wins, will they have the internal fortitude to walk away? Cause that would be a shame.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Gaddafi can't win. I'm thinking of a stalemate with Tripoli and nothing else under his control, and from here on talks will occur. Rebels couldn't just go and march on Tripoli since it would result in a bloody war and revenge killings and if the coalition are smart they won't let that happen. I'm thinking the stalemate will occur and will be enforced by the coalition unofficially under other pretexts, telling the rebels to back off and not march on right now (probably thanks to a cease-fire demand from Gaddafi), for a certain period, for Libyans who want to leave to trickle out (some fleeing Tripoli, others becoming refugees), and then allow the rebels to march on and take out Gaddafi or have him surrender himself to the coalition and be brought to the Hague (best scenario). Considering the nature of the operation so far, I think this is what the coalition is looking for, with the cherry on the cake being him arrested and brought to the ICC.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

This is weird, I wonder what it was? Perhaps tear gas or some smoke grenade.

# I don't think it was anything...I mean im sure it was something, but nothing like mustard gas, ppl are back to their normal walking around about 2 hours ago via web

# One person who stopped by the canister fell on the ground, I have no idea what the hell it was. about 2 hours ago via web

# (contd) away from a crowd having thrown a canister that released a yellow gas into the sky. It's 4:38 am right now in #Libya about 2 hours ago via web

# I wouldn't tweet this if I didn't just see it. I am by the courthouse in #Benghazi, just heard noise, ran out and saw a man running (contd) about 2 hours ago via web

 

[Zeke]

well thats not good. Mustard gas takes about 24 hours to kick in so even it was mustard gas they wouldn't know.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Don't know if this was posted yet but the “Voice of Free Libya” was killed by a sniper during fighting in Benghazi today, CNN reported. I'm not familiar with him, but apparently he was a go-to source on the ground for reporters. He was 27.

Anyway, as far as the goals of this operation, the stated goal is protecting civilians. I think the unstated goal is for the rebels to move on Tripoli. The last thing I think France, Britian and the US wants is a stalemate on the ground, a cease fire with no diplomatic exit strategy and a perputal use of resources to enforce a no-fly-zone for years and years. Taking out air defenses is one thing, but I think if we see targeted strikes of tanks and artillery near Tripoli and not just those near rebel-held areas, it could be a signal we are employing the tactic we used in Afghanistan that let the rebel alliance take control of the ground. At least that's what I hope.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

well thats not good. Mustard gas takes about 24 hours to kick in so even it was mustard gas they wouldn't know.

Really, I thought it was instantaneous? So people could just be chilling and then boom 12 hours later.

I tend to think it was a riot agent. I can't imagine Mummar just something like that sitting around.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Really, I thought it was instantaneous? So people could just be chilling and then boom 12 hours later.

I tend to think it was a riot agent. I can't imagine Mummar just something like that sitting around.

I thought so too, but it turns out it does not blister immediately. The man is correct.

 

[Zeke]

Really, I thought it was instantaneous? So people could just be chilling and then boom 12 hours later.

I tend to think it was a riot agent. I can't imagine Mummar just something like that sitting around.

most people will react within 24 hours. Mustard causes burns all over the body and face as well as puss filled blisters. Tear gas is riot agent mustard gas is used for damage its nasty shit. Got tons of use in WWI tho. I read a lot of chemical and biological warfare books in middle school.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

most people will react within 24 hours. Mustard causes burns all over the body and face as well as puss filled blisters. The burns and pain level are about the same for a burn victim that beeb in a fire. Since its gas it can pass thro clothing real easy which increases the affected area. Tear gas is riot agent mustard gas used for damage its nasty shit. Got tons of use in WWI tho.

It's nasty in the sense that it's horrific, not nasty in the sense that it's very effective, just to clarify. It's very unwieldy to use and rarely kills.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I thought so too, but it turns out it does not blister immediately. The man is correct.

That's not good then. Guy needs to get some photo of the canister so people can figure out what it is.

most people will react within 24 hours. Mustard causes burns all over the body and face as well as puss filled blisters. Tear gas is riot agent mustard gas used for damage its nasty shit.

So would you go with a low grade riot agent version or potential the real deal?

 

[Salazar]

Rebels couldn't just go and march on Tripoli since it would result in a bloody war and revenge killings and if the coalition are smart they won't let that happen.

I was of the understanding that the rebels couldn't march on Tripoli because they would, as things stand at the moment, get smoked.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

More broadcasts from the Commando Solo Plane (with a lot of interference that sounds like an Atari Game.)

At some point Andrea B recorded jamming on the 6877.0 kHz transmissions and you can hear that at http://www.mediasuk.org/appoggio/jamming_6877.mp3. This is a must hear mp3. You can even hear the transmission form the aircraft telling the Libyan Navy sailors to not leave port, etc.

Nils DK8OK, has also posted an audio file from 6877.0 kHz. "6877 kHz, 20.3.11, 09:00 UTC, in SSB/USB with reduced carrier. Slightly jammed. Calling Libyan seamen to return to port and leave their ships in Arabic, English and French:
„Libyan sailors! Leave your ship immediately! Leave your ... and return to your family or your home. ... forces of violating at United National resolution ... the end of ... in your country. For your own safety: Leave your ship immediately! Do not attempt to jam [?] transmission." Click here for Nils DK8OK audio file.

http://mt-milcom.blogspot.com/2011/03/monitoring-operation-odyssey-dawn.html

 

[Zeke]

some extra info on the effects of mustard gas per wiki

If the victim's eyes were exposed then they become sore, starting with conjunctivitis, after which the eyelids swell, resulting in temporary blindness. According to the Medical Management of Chemical Casualties handbook, there have been experimental cases in humans where the patient has suffered miosis, or pinpointing of pupils, as a result of the cholinomimetic activity of mustard.[citation needed] At very high concentrations, if inhaled, mustard agent causes bleeding and blistering within the respiratory system, damaging mucous membranes and causing pulmonary edema. Depending on the level of contamination, mustard gas burns can vary between first and second degree burns, though they can also be every bit as severe, disfiguring and dangerous as third degree burns.[6] Severe mustard gas burns (i.e. where more than 50% of the victim's skin has been burned) are often fatal, with death occurring after some days or even weeks have passed. Mild or moderate exposure to mustard agent is unlikely to kill, though victims invariably require lengthy periods of medical treatment and convalescence before recovery is complete. The mutagenic and carcinogenic effects of mustard agent mean that victims who recover from mustard gas burns have an increased risk of developing cancer in later life.

 

[Zeke]

So would you go with a low grade riot agent version or potential the real deal?

Mustard gas and other chemical weapons are banned for use in warfare IIRC via treaty as are biological weapons. Tear gas is legal swat teams use as do correctional staff.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Interesting, any idea how long it stays in the environment before dispersing?

Mustard gas and other chemical weapons are banned for use in warfare IIRC via treaty as are biological weapons. Tear gas is legal swat teams use as do correctional staff.

Ah sorry I thought you said low level mustard gas was a riot agent. I thought it was banned by treaty, hence my confusion.

 

[Zeke]

all I found on wiki was

Furthermore, mustard gas was a persistent agent which would remain in the environment for days and continue to cause sickness. If mustard gas contaminated a soldier's clothing and equipment, then other soldiers he came into contact with would also be poisoned.

and

Urinary concentrations of the thiodiglycol hydrolysis products of sulfur mustard have been used to confirm a diagnosis of chemical poisoning in hospitalized victims. The presence in urine of 1,1'-sulfonylbismethylthioethane (SBMTE), a conjugation product with glutathione, is considered a more specific marker, since this metabolite is not found in specimens from unexposed persons. Intact sulfur mustard was detected in postmortem fluids and tissues of a man who died one week post-exposure

It's nasty in the sense that it's horrific, not nasty in the sense that it's very effective, just to clarify. It's very unwieldy to use and rarely kills.

eh its debatable mustard gas wasn't used as a way to kill troops just to take them out of commission so to speak. Attacking an advancing enemy with mustard gas would would stop them granted you give yourself a 24 hour window to let it take effect.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I was of the understanding that the rebels couldn't march on Tripoli because they would, as things stand at the moment, get smoked.

At the moment maybe but I believe a lot of people will try to desert, other flee, etc. After sustained attacks from the coalition on their military hardware all they could do is stay in Tripoli, but then their resources will probably be more and more limited over time (a matter of two weeks maybe). Rebels could be better prepared than ever by then. I'm guessing Gaddafi's supporters will try to prevent people from leaving Tripoli, but I doubt they could succeed for a long time. The more people that flee Tripoli, the more likely it is for Rebels to proceed and march on with coalition support.

 

[Bishman]

Can anyone give me a rundown with this whole situation? All I know is the headlines I see in the media and on TV.

 

[Rikyfree]

More broadcasts from the Commando Solo Plane (with a lot of interference that sounds like an Atari Game.)




http://mt-milcom.blogspot.com/2011/03/monitoring-operation-odyssey-dawn.html

Hehe, Callsign Sheen 53. Winning.

 

[Zen]

So what's the over under on the rebels actually being able to hold and overthrow? I'm getting the unsettling impression that we're heading for a divided country, or the rebels losing (without more defections from the military).

 

[GillianSeed79]

I was of the understanding that the rebels couldn't march on Tripoli because they would, as things stand at the moment, get smoked.

Pretty much I think. The problem with moving on Tripoli is that it's like more than 100 miles away from Bengazi with mostly open desert between the two. Without the NFZ a march on Tripoli would be suicide because the rebels would be sitting ducks in the open desert for Gaddafi's air force. Really, on the ground, it's mostly certain tribal factions that support him along with just a few favorite brigades that are loyal to him. Remember, he kept most of his army weak intentionally because he never trusted them and likely feared they would oust him. I mean, other the crazy diehards that are fighting for him because they have no future in a post Gaddafhi Libya, all he has is psycho mercs that are only in it for the money. If it looks like the rebels have a real chance of seizing power they'll turn tail back to sub-Saharan Africa rather than fight to the last man. There's plenty of strongmen elsewhere that'd be willing to pay them.

 

[Zeke]

whats the count on heavy armor and artillery in Tripoli? Is his air force a threat any more I thought he was down to a dozen or so jets. If they hit those runways with tomahawks those jets are worthless.

 

[lo escondido]

whats the count on heavy armor and artillery in Tripoli? Is his air force a threat any more I thought he was down to a dozen or so jets. If they hit those runways with tomahawks those jets are worthless.

I think they would need more justification to attack the jets since they pose no threat unless they are airborn.

The resolution doesn't give carte blanche for anything just for protecting civilians

 

[cntr]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25466689&postcount=208

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25466902&postcount=213

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25459758&postcount=104

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25460132&postcount=117

what the fuck

 

[Salazar]

what the fuck

Indeed. I thought I was messing with a troll, not a madman.

 

[Zeke]

well those post are just down right evil
Edit: I think I'm in love with this anchor woman on al jazeera

 

[SoulPlaya]

what the fuck

With the exception of the denial of the millions dead (which is crazy), he's mostly right about post-communist life in Eastern Europe. The transition to capitalism has been horrendous for many, and the sudden shock of a lack of basic services (which the USSR did provide) is still being felt.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

With the exception of the denial of the millions dead (which is crazy), he's mostly right about post-communist life in Eastern Europe. The transition to capitalism has been horrendous for many, and the sudden shock of a lack of basic services (which the USSR did provide) is still being felt.

Yeah, I think being an apologist of Stalin trumps whatever qualms you have about the democratic and capitalist transition that happened in Eastern Europe.

 

[RustyNails]

Can anyone give me a rundown with this whole situation? All I know is the headlines I see in the media and on TV.

I'm pretty tired so I'll keep the whole thing short. Tunisian style peaceful pro-democracy movement started in Libya. It lasted for couple of weeks where it grew bigger and bigger each passing day. One fine day, in the city of Benghazi (where the first demonstrations took place), Col. Gaddafi used his military to bomb the peaceful demonstrators. Not police, not thugs, but military (and para-military which was made up of paid foreign mercenaries...the rate was $2000/day). Col. Gaddafi declared war against his own people and started shelling and bombing them left and right. Couple of airforce pilots defected early on, refusing to bomb their fellow citizens. Few other soldiers, infantry and support also defected. The demonstrators now became armed civilians engaging in warfare against their military. This rebel movement had rapid early success and captured almost all of the towns and cities in Libya, but then Gaddafi launched a merciless, scorched earth counter-assault against the rebels, retaking many of the rebel held towns. Gaddafi's army now surrounded Benghazi (second most populous city) and gave 48 hour ultimatum to rebels holed up in there, promising that if they dont surrender, people will be hunted down like rats, door by door, cleansed out, etc. This made international flags going on red alert, as everyone was looking at a planned massacre, or maybe another Rwanda. This provided the impetus for the UNSC to institute No Fly Zone over Libya in order to immediately stop Gaddafi from attacking his own people using jets.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Attacking an advancing enemy with mustard gas would would stop them granted you give yourself a 24 hour window to let it take effect.

Like... a cease fire to buy time for the effects to kick in? D:

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

#
0618: The UK's Ministry of Defence says Royal Air Force Tornados aborted a bombing mission over Libya because there were civilians in the target area. The aircraft returned to RAF Marham in Norfolk early on Monday after a 4,800km (3,000-mile) round trip to North Africa. The BBC's Andy Moore has been following developments: "The MoD would not comment on what the Tornados were due to attack. It said only that the decision was taken not to launch weapons because as the jets approached the target further information came to light that there were a number of civilians in the area. It did not say who they were or how they got there. The Americans have said Col Gaddafi is using human shields. The Libyans admit as much."

.

 

[RustyNails]

.

Props to the pilot of that jet. I'm glad he did not go through with the mission. Good decision on his part.

 

[SoulPlaya]

Yeah, I think being an apologist of Stalin trumps whatever qualms you have about the democratic and capitalist transition that happened in Eastern Europe.

Yeah, I don't really get the Stalin support (too much nationalism, I guess), but the truth is the truth. I actually just got done taking a class on modern day Eastern Europe and its history.

 

[Zeke]

Like... a cease fire to buy time for the effects to kick in? D:

sounds more like an isolated occurrence that would result in limited damage if this was happening on a massive scale then I'd worry. Still a person going down after passing the canister is a little worrisome.