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[Mael]

No problem. I've decided to avoid all comment sections, after any news story on this issue. 99% of them are hateful, vicious, borderline or overtly racist, baseless attacks by intellectually crippled people. They hypocritically attack Obama for either not acting quickly enough (he's a pathetic, inexperienced, dithering, in over his head leader- because making such a call should be be based on the 'gut', is a piece of cake, and doesnt involve thousands of factors and possible outcomes) , or acting at all ('he's proven to be a neocon, bankrupting the US with another war, identical to Bush, a lying hypocrite, wolf in sheeps clothes, etc), depending on their political inclinations. But in all cases he is attacked, usually mixed with some of the same preconceived bullshit he was getting as a candidate.

It's so fucking difficult to find ANY forum or comment section online with anything even resembling intelligent, rational, and reasonable debate. This place is the closest I've found to that, ironic that i's a videogame message board. I actually have to look for trashy comments here, while everywhere else I need to scroll dozens and dozens of posts to find something that isn't.

Can I use that comment too? I mean it's basically for similar reasons that I'm here in the end.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

^^^ Basically, a heavily moderated forum that requires months to get registration approval is as close as you can get to a "irresponsible comment consequence zone" on the internet.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Maddow: 'Can Obama Restore US credibility with new narrative?'

I thought it was a good commentary and interview, which highlights the dangers and challenges of this effort.

 

[RustyNails]

Hey guys..

This is my 1st post here since 2006. Just got hit with a massive dose of nostalgia.

Anyway, just wanted to quickly chime in. People glibly comparing this to Iraq, etc, have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. There's almost no parallels, in any single aspect. I think some of you in the US are so confused because of your political loyalties, party ideologies, that you can't see straight anymore. I'm currently living in Beirut, Lebanon, and I was also here at the start of the Iraq war. This is a very cosmopolitan arab country. I can tell you, anecdotally, that 95% of the people I spoke with were absolutely against the Iraq attack (as was I), while almost EVERYONE here is FOR this military intervention. I'm talking common people from taxi drivers, fruit stand sellers, business men, family, students, etc. The main consensus is 'there would have been a mass slaughter with no intervention, the US was and is right to intervene'. NOONE ive spoken to is seeing this is an sort of 'imperialist attack, US vs Muslims, oil, or any of that. Of course people here tend to be skeptical of anything the US does, but the overwhelming opinion is in favor of this, that 'it had to be done'.

Also, those of you who think the US standing hasnt changed in Arab countries in the past couple years are completely wrong. People's opinion of the US, compared to when Bush was there to now, is night and day here. You used to be able to sense seething hatred whenever the US was brought up. Now, not so. These feelings have softened (not dissapeared, obviously) significantly since Obama has been in office. There is alot more respect towards it than there used to be.

Just another perspective.. living in the US, right/wrong is simply a matter of what political party/person you'd like to attack, and how to score points. But I've read so many fucked up comparisons, ie. OBAMA NEOCON LIKE BUSH, OBAMA'S IRAQ, OABAMA WARMONGER, from US media, its sickening. I was utterly against the Iraq war, campaigned against it extensively. I am utterly for this intervention, because of the potential slaughter that may have ensued, although I'm not hubristic enough to try to guess how it will end up in the end.

Thank you for this perspective. I will put this post in the OP. Also, can you tell us how are things right now in Lebanon? I understand that Lebanon isn't a totalitarian corrupt autocracy like some of these Arab countries, but I also understand there's some discontent over there.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

Thank you for this perspective. I will put this post in the OP. Also, can you tell us how are things right now in Lebanon? I understand that Lebanon isn't a totalitarian corrupt autocracy like some of these Arab countries, but I also understand there's some discontent over there.

It would be near impossible to sum of this country or its political situation in anything smaller than a novel, or several novels. By most definitions, we do indeed have a democracy, specifically a parliamentary democracy, implementing confessionalism to blunt potential sectarian issues (there's 18 recognized religious groups in the country and in gvt). ie. The President has to be maronite christian, the prime minister a sunni muslim, etc. As for corruption? You'll find plenty here, and the extent of corruption from most gvt officials in well acknowledged by the populace.

As you probably know the gvt collapsed a couple months ago after the resignation of the opposition ministers (Hezbollah) due to the STL (investigation of assassination of Fr.PM Rafic Hariri). Officially, there is no new gvt yet, but many people couldn't care else as they saw the gvt as ineffectual anyway. March 8 Alliance (mostly hezbollah) has elected Najib Mikati as PM, and we'll see what happens to the STL, the results of which are scheduled to be released soon. People are scared of the consequences, as its understood that it will indict Hezbollah members, who have made it clear they are not prepared to handover anyone.

Most people here are used to war and bullshit, they just try to live their lives, regardless of what happens. I just came here last year, I'm Canadian and was born and lived their my entire life. I wanted a new experience, and to test out life in this country. Suffice to say, completely different way of life. Beirut is also quite the city, diverse, crazy nightlife, and you can find pretty much whatever the hell you're into. Lebanon is nothing like any other country in the region, in terms of freedom. Pretty much no gvt interference in daily lives, you're left alone to do as you please. gets a ton of tourism from the gulf, saudis etc coming here to have a good time. I could write books about this place, it has so many contrasts and paradoxical in so many ways, I find myself loving it one minute and hating it the next. Its an experience. This place has massive potential, unfortunately this is blunted by outside forces and geopolitical strategizing, and Lebanon is often seen as not being in control of its destiny. There's the whole Israel thing, too.

If interested, here's a few photo albums I've taken..
Rally: https://picasaweb.google.com/mjoundi/March132011Rally#
random: https://picasaweb.google.com/mjoundi/LebanonPhotography20092010#

 

[Wazzim]

Did you not read?

My fault then. Sorry.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

Weird, I saw at a newspaper here that is usually pretty thorough/reliable, and they stated the footage was shot 2 days ago. Guess they were mistaken, you've seen the footage before I guess?

You're right, I got it's upload date mixed up.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

Drudgereport isn't painting a good picture of these events. Then again, I am almost ready to drop my readership of almost any mainstream online garbage. I am tired of the hyping and doom and gloom.

Does anyone have a link to a reputable summary of a SITREP of what is going on?

 

[Purkake4]

Interesting

36/103. Declaration on the Inadmissibility of Intervention
and Interference in the Internal Affairs of States

II
(f) The duty of a State to refrain from the promotion,
encouragement or support, direct or indirect, of rebellious or
secessionist activities within other States, under any pretext
whatsoever, or any action which seeks to disrupt the unity or
to undermine or subvert the political order of other States;

(Blatantly stolen from the Obsidian boards)

 

[RustyNails]

Does anyone have a link to a reputable summary of a SITREP of what is going on?

what's going on as in right now, or what's going on as in "wait, we're in a war?" If it's the latter, check out the first post in this thread. Under the FAQ section, you should find your answers. As for what's going on right now, the sorties are still underway. It has been announced that Libyan air force has been decimated.

Libya's air force "no longer exists as a fighting force" following devastating air strikes by international coalition forces, a British military officer has claimed.

The claim came as fierce fighting continued on the ground on Wednesday as forces loyal to embattled Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi continued their offensive against anti-government rebels across the north African state.

Addressing journalists at an air base in southern Italy, from which Royal Air Force (RAF) warplanes have been operating, Air Vice Marshall Greg Bagwell said international coalition forces could operate with impunity over Libya.

"Effectively, [Libya's] air force no longer exists as a fighting force," said Bagwell. "And his [Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's] integrated air defence system and command and control networks are severely degraded to the point that we can operate over his airspace with impunity," he said.

Bagwell said US, French and British forces involved in the strikes that began on Saturday had "taken away (Gaddafi's) eyes and ears" and "destroyed the majority of his air force".

Bagwell said coalition forces were also targeting Gaddafi's ground forces.

Ground fighting is still underway. Parts of Ajdabiya have falled to Rebels, but the pro-Gaddafists still control the northern and western gates. Allies have planned to bomb those places so rebels can advance.

 

[speculawyer]

Ground fighting is still underway. Parts of Ajdabiya have falled to Rebels, but the pro-Gaddafists still control the northern and western gates. Allies have planned to bomb those places so rebels can advance.

Officially a "no fly zone" . . . unofficially close ground support?

 

[Xapati]

Officially a "no fly zone" . . . unofficially close ground support?

Did anyone really think otherwise? The West has no option but to eliminate Gadaffi now as he would be a security risk if he were to get back in power.

 

[nubbe]

"all necessary measures" to protect civilians in Libya

So they can do anything from the air to protect civilians

 

[RustyNails]

Officially a "no fly zone" . . . unofficially close ground support?

Actually you mean air support (no ground forces ). Yeah, unofficially it is air support. Ajdabiya has been bottlenecked by Gaddafi because he knows that if Ajdabiya falls, Ras Lanuf will fall as well (one is bigger than the other). It could potentially open the flood gate to total rebel assault. Check this:

6:14am

Al Jazeera's James Bays, reporting from Benghazi, tells us:

Morale here is good. The city was under attack just a few days ago, and now the problems are 150km away.

But morale on the front line is less high. They need to be able to pass Ajdabiya, but don't seem to be able to make much progress at the moment.

Gaddafi has the heavy weapons, while the rebels have only light arms and rocket launchers and there is little military structure to them.

And the allies have bombed some parts of the town:

12:41pm

International coalition warplanes just conducted an air strike against Gaddafi forces stationed at the eastern entrance of Ajdabiya, reports Al Jazeera Arabic.

2:01pm

An anti-Gaddafi fighter scopes the road ahead, near Ajdabiya.

 

[MrHicks]

holy fuck gadaffi give up already aaaaaargh
dude is unbelievable

take a hint from mubarak & ben ali already
this guy is something else

 

[Psychotext]

"all necessary measures" to protect civilians in Libya

So they can do anything from the air to protect civilians

This one. People seem to keep endlessly repeating "No Fly Zone" when the UN resolution went quite a way past that.

Hell, you could even technically put troops on the ground as long as they weren't sufficient to constitute an "occupation force".

 

[PistolGrip]

holy fuck gadaffi give up already aaaaaargh
dude is unbelievable

take a hint from mubarak & ben ali already
this guy is something else

Well hes a lunatic, cant really expect anything less.

 

[alphaNoid]

No problem. I've decided to avoid all comment sections, after any news story on this issue. 99% of them are hateful, vicious, borderline or overtly racist, baseless attacks by intellectually crippled people. They hypocritically attack Obama for either not acting quickly enough (he's a pathetic, inexperienced, dithering, in over his head leader- because making such a call should be be based on the 'gut', is a piece of cake, and doesnt involve thousands of factors and possible outcomes) , or acting at all ('he's proven to be a neocon, bankrupting the US with another war, identical to Bush, a lying hypocrite, wolf in sheeps clothes, etc), depending on their political inclinations. But in all cases he is attacked, usually mixed with some of the same preconceived bullshit he was getting as a candidate.

Funny you mention it, I felt exactly the same way when Bush was in office.

 

[thefro]

They really need someone to arm and train the rebels.

NBC News was down outside Ajdabiya with some of them and it was basically a bunch of guys in pickup trucks with rocket launchers and AK-47s. Really ragtag group.

 

[durendal]

Canadian pilots carried out their first air strikes in Libya today, destroying an ammunition depot in Misurata and bombing another unnamed location. A previous mission was aborted because the risk of civilian casualties was too high.

Link

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

They really need someone to arm and train the rebels.

History is not one of your strong points, i see.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

History is not one of your strong points, i see.

Haha are you referring to Afghanistan as example?

 

[WedgeX]

They really need someone to arm and train the rebels.

NBC News was down outside Ajdabiya with some of them and it was basically a bunch of guys in pickup trucks with rocket launchers and AK-47s. Really ragtag group.

First they need George Washington.

Then they can have a Lafeyette.

 

[Zenith]

History is not one of your strong points, i see.

at least it's not a war between ideological factions.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

at least it's not a war between ideological factions.

Anything the united states has touched since WWII has gone to shit. If I was a Lybian rebel I'd rather sweat this thing out than have the US directly involved in the ground.

 

[Ronald_mcd]

Anything the united states has touched since WWII has gone to shit. If I was a Lybian rebel I'd rather sweat this thing out than have the US directly involved in the ground.

You'd be sweating blood.

 

[sangreal]

Anything the united states has touched since WWII has gone to shit. If I was a Lybian rebel I'd rather sweat this thing out than have the US directly involved in the ground.

Kuwait?
Korea?
Panama?
Germany?

 

[RustyNails]

They really need someone to arm and train the rebels.

NBC News was down outside Ajdabiya with some of them and it was basically a bunch of guys in pickup trucks with rocket launchers and AK-47s. Really ragtag group.

Yep, but look at the map NYT has of the current situation:

[/IMG]

West is still heavily populated by pro-Gaddafi and under govt control. Ajdabiya as everyone can see is becoming a sort of Gates of Vienna type.

 

[Advance_Alarm]

Anything the united states has touched since WWII has gone to shit. If I was a Lybian rebel I'd rather sweat this thing out than have the US directly involved in the ground.

Japan?
S. Korea?

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

I'm going to keep my sarcasm out of this thread for the time being. That, and that half of your responses are either wwII related and/or intertwined with failed American policies of the past, which, ironically enough, proves my point as far as American intervention is concerned. But, I digress. I support a gaddafi-free middle east as much as the next guy.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Sounds like aid has finally been able to reach Misrata...

Medeor.org is responding to urgent requests for additional relief consignments,which are packed and should arrive by the end of the week. about 1 hour ago via web

"It needed everything," said Nagi Idris MD "90 percent of the residents of Misurata have nothing to eat,no electricity, no water, nothing." about 1 hour ago via web

"The most urgent needs are additional medical treatment options such as a mobile clinic, medicines and bandages," says Dr. Nagi Idris. about 1 hour ago via web

Dr. Nagi Idris worked in conjunction with Mohamed #Nabbous & his supporters in coordinating the medical relief shipment.

"The joy over the relief supplies so far only in the hospital was huge," said Dr. Nagi Idris founder of "Global Relief for Libya". about 1 hour ago via web

Medeor ship containing of drugs & dressing materials brough aid to the only hospital in Misurata. Malta & US provided security support. about 1 hour ago via web

Medeor first aid ship arrived yesterday in Misrata under military protection. Hospitals had been short of basics including anesthetics. about 1 hour ago via web

 

[Gaborn]

Japan?
S. Korea?

Anyone else want to put 35,000 troops in Libya for the next 60 years so we can be like Japan? How about 28,000 so we can be like Korea!

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Anyone else want to put 35,000 troops in Libya for the next 60 years so we can be like Japan? How about 28,000 so we can be like Korea!

If that's all it takes to create a Japan in the middle of North Africa, that might not be a bad tradeoff.

 

[Gaborn]

If that's all it takes to create a Japan in the middle of North Africa, that might not be a bad tradeoff.

something tells me it would take a bit more than that. I thought GAF wanted to actually, you know, cut the US defense department though. Frankly I'm just very very saddened by how many GAFers are just accepting all of this, especially with no clear plan for an exit strategy. Isn't that one of the reasons the Iraq war was so unfortunate?

Edit: And I don't want any misunderstandings here. The Iraq war was completely and totally a fucking DISGRACE on ever level. This is not that yet. But we're in a war without a clear goal, with a UN mandate only to enforce a no fly zone, not to magically remove a dictator (which doesn't seem to be anywhere close to happening incidentally) and no scheduled point when we will no longer be involved in the bombings. Also, let's say things go according to our plan. Who is going to be in charge after Gadaffi is removed? Is there any reason to put rebel leaders in charge? Are we going to wait for elections or just leave? If we stay, are we going to be on the ground and running anything? Overseeing it? Or just a small presence to keep our puppet in power until the election? If we don't stay, what's to say the country will accept whoever we leave in charge? What about the risk of sending Libya into civil war?

 

[nubbe]

Anyone else want to put 35,000 troops in Libya for the next 60 years so we can be like Japan? How about 28,000 so we can be like Korea!

Well, they are extremely strong economies and strong allies to the USA... so why not?!

 

[TheHeretic]

I'm going to keep my sarcasm out of this thread for the time being. That, and that half of your responses are either wwII related and/or intertwined with failed American policies of the past, which, ironically enough, proves my point as far as American intervention is concerned. But, I digress. I support a gaddafi-free middle east as much as the next guy.

The question is what are you prepared to do to stop Gadaffi, since the Secretary of Defense has testified that the rebels left to their own devices would almost certainly lose due to disproportionate power.

 

[Gaborn]

Well, they are extremely strong economies and strong allies to the USA... so why not?!

Because I don't think anyone believes that it would be that easy. If we have our way Libya won't even have a clearly defined government after this is over with!

TheHeretic - so what's to stop the Rebels from being overthrown should we help them to power?

 

[Pristine_Condition]

It would be near impossible to sum of this country or its political situation in anything smaller than a novel, or several novels. By most definitions, we do indeed have a democracy, specifically a parliamentary democracy, implementing confessionalism to blunt potential sectarian issues (there's 18 recognized religious groups in the country and in gvt). ie. The President has to be maronite christian, the prime minister a sunni muslim, etc. As for corruption? You'll find plenty here, and the extent of corruption from most gvt officials in well acknowledged by the populace.

As you probably know the gvt collapsed a couple months ago after the resignation of the opposition ministers (Hezbollah) due to the STL (investigation of assassination of Fr.PM Rafic Hariri). Officially, there is no new gvt yet, but many people couldn't care else as they saw the gvt as ineffectual anyway. March 8 Alliance (mostly hezbollah) has elected Najib Mikati as PM, and we'll see what happens to the STL, the results of which are scheduled to be released soon. People are scared of the consequences, as its understood that it will indict Hezbollah members, who have made it clear they are not prepared to handover anyone.

Most people here are used to war and bullshit, they just try to live their lives, regardless of what happens. I just came here last year, I'm Canadian and was born and lived their my entire life. I wanted a new experience, and to test out life in this country. Suffice to say, completely different way of life. Beirut is also quite the city, diverse, crazy nightlife, and you can find pretty much whatever the hell you're into. Lebanon is nothing like any other country in the region, in terms of freedom. Pretty much no gvt interference in daily lives, you're left alone to do as you please. gets a ton of tourism from the gulf, saudis etc coming here to have a good time. I could write books about this place, it has so many contrasts and paradoxical in so many ways, I find myself loving it one minute and hating it the next. Its an experience. This place has massive potential, unfortunately this is blunted by outside forces and geopolitical strategizing, and Lebanon is often seen as not being in control of its destiny. There's the whole Israel thing, too.

If interested, here's a few photo albums I've taken..
Rally: https://picasaweb.google.com/mjoundi/March132011Rally#
random: https://picasaweb.google.com/mjoundi/LebanonPhotography20092010#

Thanks for this post.

Of all the places in that troubled part of the world, I'm always pulling for Lebanon, and especially Beirut. I made a couple friends from their in college, (one of whom sadly passed away way too soon a few months ago of pancreatic cancer here in the States,) and I always wanted to go to Beirut with them. It's really the only place in that part of the world I have any desire to go. Not Egypt, even with the pyramids, not Israel, even though I'm a Christian and there's all the holy sites--nope, just Lebanon. And just because all the people I've met have been so great. I'd still like to, even though he's gone.

Keep us posted, and stay safe...unless you have to do something you believe in and the risk is worth it.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

It would be near impossible to sum of this country or its political situation in anything smaller than a novel, or several novels. By most definitions, we do indeed have a democracy, specifically a parliamentary democracy, implementing confessionalism to blunt potential sectarian issues (there's 18 recognized religious groups in the country and in gvt). ie. The President has to be maronite christian, the prime minister a sunni muslim, etc. As for corruption? You'll find plenty here, and the extent of corruption from most gvt officials in well acknowledged by the populace.

As you probably know the gvt collapsed a couple months ago after the resignation of the opposition ministers (Hezbollah) due to the STL (investigation of assassination of Fr.PM Rafic Hariri). Officially, there is no new gvt yet, but many people couldn't care else as they saw the gvt as ineffectual anyway. March 8 Alliance (mostly hezbollah) has elected Najib Mikati as PM, and we'll see what happens to the STL, the results of which are scheduled to be released soon. People are scared of the consequences, as its understood that it will indict Hezbollah members, who have made it clear they are not prepared to handover anyone.

Most people here are used to war and bullshit, they just try to live their lives, regardless of what happens. I just came here last year, I'm Canadian and was born and lived their my entire life. I wanted a new experience, and to test out life in this country. Suffice to say, completely different way of life. Beirut is also quite the city, diverse, crazy nightlife, and you can find pretty much whatever the hell you're into. Lebanon is nothing like any other country in the region, in terms of freedom. Pretty much no gvt interference in daily lives, you're left alone to do as you please. gets a ton of tourism from the gulf, saudis etc coming here to have a good time. I could write books about this place, it has so many contrasts and paradoxical in so many ways, I find myself loving it one minute and hating it the next. Its an experience. This place has massive potential, unfortunately this is blunted by outside forces and geopolitical strategizing, and Lebanon is often seen as not being in control of its destiny. There's the whole Israel thing, too.

If interested, here's a few photo albums I've taken..
Rally: https://picasaweb.google.com/mjoundi/March132011Rally#
random: https://picasaweb.google.com/mjoundi/LebanonPhotography20092010#

This is so fucking true.

 

[nubbe]

Because I don't think anyone believes that it would be that easy. If we have our way Libya won't even have a clearly defined government after this is over with!

No government... isn't that the American dream?

 

[Gaborn]

No government... isn't that the American dream?

I'm not an anarchist. Seriously though. Nobody is talking about, assuming we get Gaddafi out... then what?

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

No government... isn't that the American dream?

LOL. So brilliant.

 

[Mgoblue201]

something tells me it would take a bit more than that. I thought GAF wanted to actually, you know, cut the US defense department though. Frankly I'm just very very saddened by how many GAFers are just accepting all of this, especially with no clear plan for an exit strategy. Isn't that one of the reasons the Iraq war was so unfortunate?

If you actually believe that the administration will assert that the military must unequivocally diminish its part in the coalition after only a few days, leaving Britain and France to clean up any potential problems, then I think that it's a fairly good exit strategy.

I'd like to think that I'm conscious of the limits of American power, and I'm skeptical in certain aspects that this will turn out well, but for all the empty bluster that we'd be greeted well in Iraq, this is one case where it actually proved to be true, and I find that fairly encouraging. The potential consequences here certainly sends the mind reeling. But this has been conducted about as well as can be expected so far, despite the fact that it is predicated upon the risk that the rebels can overwhelm Gaddafi's forces without further intervention.

I also don't think that there is anything contradictory about employing a military that can easily destroy the forces that Gaddafi has at his disposal and wanting to cut a military that is the vestige of a Soviet threat. We can still take part in the former and still cut the latter.

 

[Gaborn]

If you actually believe that the administration will assert that the military must unequivocally diminish its part in the coalition after only a few days, leaving Britain and France to clean up any potential problems, then I think that it's a fairly good exit strategy.

I'd like to think that I'm conscious of the limits of American power, and I'm skeptical in certain aspects that this will turn out well, but for all the empty bluster that we'd be greeted well in Iraq, this is one case where it actually proved to be true, and I find that fairly encouraging. The potential consequences here certainly sends the mind reeling. But this has been conducted about as well as can be expected so far, despite the fact that it is predicated upon the risk that the rebels can overwhelm Gaddafi's forces without further intervention.

I also don't think that there is anything contradictory about employing a military that can easily destroy the forces that Gaddafi has at his disposal and wanting to cut a military that is the vestige of a Soviet threat. We can still take part in the former and still cut the latter.

So again, Obama has said now (after the Pentagon said earlier in the week he was NOT the target) that the goal in Libya for the US is Regime change. Let's say we do that. Then what? Shall we let Libya pick up the pieces and go home? Stay? Who's going to pay for us to stay if we do?

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Gaborn, I don't think anybody really wants US boots on the ground. Not the Libyans, and not our European allies. So I think our exit strategy is more a strategy of never going in. I think the Europeans with the most interest in Libya will be the ones to stay behind.

I've been very critical of Obama over the course of his administration, and I'm not entirely happy with how he's handled this, (especially with the "head in the noose" comment and keeping Congress in the loop) but I'm not going to prejudge the operation as a failure yet.

This is the real big test of Obama. This healthcare or stimulus money or whatever...this is the real hard Presidential stuff. He has to get it right, and I hope he does, for the people of Libya and for the United States.

I do think his heart is in the right place. Is the head there too? I pray it is.

 

[Gaborn]

Gaborn, I don't think anybody really wants US boots on the ground. Not the Libyans, and not our European allies. So I think our exit strategy is more a strategy of never going in. I think the Europeans with the most interest in Libya will be the ones to stay behind.

I've been very critical of Obama over the course of his administration, and I'm not entirely happy with how he's handled this, (especially with the "head in the noose" comment and keeping Congress in the loop) but I'm not going to prejudge the operation as a failure yet.

This is the real big test of Obama. This healthcare or stimulus money or whatever...this is the real hard Presidential stuff. He has to get it right, and I hope he does, for the people of Libya and for the United States.

I do think his heart is in the right place. Is the head there too? I pray it is.

I don't understand this answer frankly. Again. If you remove Gaddafi how do we know that there is going to be something better? If that is your administration's goal what is your plan once that happens? Do we know how popular the Rebels are in other areas of Libya? Will pro-Gaddafi Libyans (I assume there are some at least) accept them? Will all anti-Gaddafi Libyans accept one person pending an election? What happens if they don't?

Saying the Europeans or even the Arabs will handle this and clean up the mess seems to be somewhat anti-historical. The Europeans have only ever really taken over for us in situations like this after we've spend months and months and months involved in an international situation, and never really after whole sale removing a dictator from power (assuming we're able to do so). I don't think at this point we know what is going to happen after Gaddafi (assuming we GET to a post-Gaddafi Libya) and that should trouble everyone.

 

[Chrono]

You can laugh it off if you want but that's pretty much how people look toward americans. That copter guy shot fucking children because they were 'advancing toward our pilot' , think about that. Think about that. It's just that there were so many fucking wars were this has happened before (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan) and there seems to be very little improvement in the US army.

Can we talk about saudis wazzim and how 'people' look towards you?

 

[cntr]

Drudgereport isn't painting a good picture of these events. Then again, I am almost ready to drop my readership of almost any mainstream online garbage. I am tired of the hyping and doom and gloom.

Does anyone have a link to a reputable summary of a SITREP of what is going on?

The BBC and Al Jazeera have been fairly good at reporting events.

 

[cntr]

Gaborn, the National Transitional Council have already chosen an interim prime minister.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

Thanks for this post.

Of all the places in that troubled part of the world, I'm always pulling for Lebanon, and especially Beirut. I made a couple friends from their in college, (one of whom sadly passed away way too soon a few months ago of pancreatic cancer here in the States,) and I always wanted to go to Beirut with them. It's really the only place in that part of the world I have any desire to go. Not Egypt, even with the pyramids, not Israel, even though I'm a Christian and there's all the holy sites--nope, just Lebanon. And just because all the people I've met have been so great. I'd still like to, even though he's gone.

Keep us posted, and stay safe...unless you have to do something you believe in and the risk is worth it.

Thanks for the support and interest.

Beirut is absolutely worth seeing. There's no other city like it. It's a tiny country that literally has everything, from breathtaking natural beauty, beaches, snow, (you can ski/swim in the same day) high-end establishments, more clubs/pubs than you can shake a stick at, amazingly gorgeous women, incredible food, cultural richness, an amazing underground art scene, historical richness (7 previous civilizations), etc. As a place to visit, you can't go wrong (living here is another story). Don't know anyone who's visited who hasnt wanted to come back- in fact, I've met many who have decided to move here spontaneously after visiting once- Americans, Europeans, etc, sacrificing careers and finances to do so (incomes are generally shit, and real estate is insanely expensive). There's just this energy here that's addictive to people, once they leave they instantly miss it. It's like the best and worst of 20 cities combined into one.