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[Kain]

I really hope in the end the ice is Stannis and his army of northerners, the fire is Dany with her dragons and old people and he beats the shit out of her.

 

[Crisco]

I mean, the symbolism and foreshadowing with Stannis is pretty concrete at this point. Noye's description of "hard but brittle" and how he'll break before he bends. Choosing the Nightfort as the seat of his kingdom. He's already resorted to all sorts of dark magics to defeat his enemies or simply survive. I don't think the battle at Winterfell will go well for him, and after he goes limping back to the Nightfort, he will basically make a pact with the WW and let them through the Wall, ushering in a new Long Night.

 

[Jayof9s]

Stannis is not really as rigid as people make him out to be. He'll pardon lords were he can, or else give the lordship to more worthy people, like Davos. While some would call him iron, that'll break before he bends, he has so far shown himself to be very adaptive no matter where he is, even willingly to take the counsel of low-born and bastards, were most high-born lords, in their true rigidity, would refuse to even look at them, let alone follow their advice.

Anyway, I am hyped for the next episode.

Spoiler

Stannis! Stannis! STANNIS!

I always felt that a lot of that had to do with his growth while struggling to gain the crown that was rightfully his. I don't think he would have been as flexible if the Kingdom had been turned over to him right after Robert died. Stannis might not have been as rigid as everyone claimed, but I do think he would have been a lot harsher of a ruler than he becomes in the later books.

 

[Lautaro]

I mean, the symbolism and foreshadowing with Stannis is pretty concrete at this point. Noye's description of "hard but brittle" and how he'll break before he bends. Choosing the Nightfort as the seat of his kingdom. He's already resorted to all sorts of dark magics to defeat his enemies or simply survive. I don't think the battle at Winterfell will go well for him, and after he goes limping back to the Nightfort, he will basically make a pact with the WW and let them through the Wall, ushering in a new Long Night.

I would be ok with this (only because it would make Melissandre shit bricks).

 

[PhoenixDark]

I mean, the symbolism and foreshadowing with Stannis is pretty concrete at this point. Noye's description of "hard but brittle" and how he'll break before he bends. Choosing the Nightfort as the seat of his kingdom. He's already resorted to all sorts of dark magics to defeat his enemies or simply survive. I don't think the battle at Winterfell will go well for him, and after he goes limping back to the Nightfort, he will basically make a pact with the WW and let them through the Wall, ushering in a new Long Night.

I tend to agree. If Rickon manages to make it back, the north will completely forget about Stannis. Worse yet Stannis will have to deal with the fact that Davos' actions led to this; granted Davos believed retrieving Rickon would lead to the north supporting Stannis, but I doubt Stannis will believe or understand that.

Betrayed and exhausted, he'll march back to the Wall and receive even more bad news.

 

[Valhelm]

How do you all think the inevitable Arya/Sansa reunion will happen? Will she be hired by Varys to kill Litttlefinger?

 

[Moff]

arya will never set foot on westeros again, she will be killed in essos in her sleep.
and forever warg into nymeria, where she will live in the ruins of winterfell with her pack, until sansa, as queen of the seven kingdoms, will return to winterfell to rebuild it as the realms capital.

 

[Cornballer]

- NY Times: George R. R. Martin Wants More ‘Game of Thrones,’ Too

In a recent telephone interview, he said he hadn’t found the translation to television too difficult “because they’ve done such a wonderful job of it,” referring to the “Thrones” team led by David Benioff and D. B. Weiss — think of them as Stepfathers of Dragons — who created the series for HBO. But there is one thing that would make Mr. Martin very happy.

As a man with an epic imagination populated by hundreds, if not thousands, of vivid characters, it would please him no end if his creation had more elbow room on HBO, where each season runs just 10 chapters.

“I wish we had more episodes,” he said, speaking from his home in Santa Fe, N.M. “I’d love to have 13 episodes. With 13 episodes, we could include smaller scenes that we had to cut, scenes that make the story deeper and richer.”

He understands the calculus of budgets, though. With its far-flung location shoots — Iceland, Northern Ireland, Malta, Croatia, Morocco — and all of those vast yet essential battles, one season of “Thrones” is reported to cost $60 million to $70 million. “Battles are expensive,” said Mr. Martin, who worked in TV in the 1980s, with a seasoned veteran’s resignation in his voice.

Much more via the link.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

How do you all think the inevitable Arya/Sansa reunion will happen? Will she be hired by Varys to kill Litttlefinger?

... did people once ask about the inevitable Robb/Jon reunion?

 

[Real Hero]

all Mr. Martin would say, a sigh tinting his voice, was, “It’s going along''.

winds of winter 2018 confirmed

 

[Basileus777]

- NY Times: George R. R. Martin Wants More ‘Game of Thrones,’ TooMuch more via the link.

He added: “If I don’t like one of Anne’s suggestions” — that would be his editor at Bantam Books, Anne Groell — “I just don’t take it. In TV, you have the network, the studio over your head like Zeus on high.”

See, even he says it.

 

[Valhelm]

GRRM will be speaking at a panel in Edinburgh at the end of August. I wonder if we might get a release date then?

 

[Brakke]

Hey what happens to this thread when the show's done? Do we all just bail over to books thread? Are we moved to Community?

GRRM will be speaking at a panel in Edinburgh at the end of August. I wonder if we might get a release date then?

It's pretty to think so.

 

[rando14]

GRRM will be speaking at a panel in Edinburgh at the end of August. I wonder if we might get a release date then?

My philosophy towards grrm/asioaf is just to not have any expectations ever. As far as I'm concerned twow is never coming out and my mind is at peace

 

[Basileus777]

GRRM will be speaking at a panel in Edinburgh at the end of August. I wonder if we might get a release date then?

lol no

We won't get a date until it's done and sent to the publisher.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Hey what happens to this thread when the show's done? Do we all just bail over to books thread? Are we moved to Community?.

Last couple of years we've done a "off season" thread for discussing adaption, casting, and other news.

Looks like I'll be creating a part 2 of this thread later this week cause we're going to hit 20k posts. I assume we'll just roll the new one into a thread for after the season is done. As for a move to community, I don't think we did that in the past, but it's not a bad idea.

 

[Basileus777]

Hey what happens to this thread when the show's done? Do we all just bail over to books thread? Are we moved to Community?

Book discussion should go to the book thread. Really, it should be there even now.

Last couple of years we've done a "off season" thread for discussing adaption, casting, and other news.

Looks like I'll be creating a part 2 of this thread later this week cause we're going to hit 20k posts. I assume we'll just roll the new one into a thread for after the season is done. As for a move to community, I don't think we did that in the past, but it's not a bad idea.

We already have a ASOIAF community thread, I don't see a need for two, not if this thread is just going to be mostly book talk.

 

[Valhelm]

lol no

We won't get a date until it's done and sent to the publisher.

I guess it depends on how much has been written. We know that 168 manuscript pages were sent to the editor in February 2013, over a year ago. Since then he's written many new chapters, and the editor has already reviewed at least five chapters that were originally supposed to be in Dance.

We can postulate that about 400 book pages were written in the February of last year. Given that he has tightened his schedule to give himself more time to finish TWOW, he's probably written at least 300 more by now. I think the GRRM is well past the halfway point, but is waiting to announce a release date until the entire book is finished.

 

[Cornballer]

Book discussion should go to the book thread. Really, it should be there even now.

Yup. That's why I didn't quote that part of the article.

I'll cross post something now. Let's move the book/release date talk to the other thread, please.

 

[Kerned]

Given his history, it would be completely irresponsible to announce a release date until the book is literally finished and ready to go to print.

 

[crimzonflame]

I think Jon will kill stannis

 

[PhoenixDark]

GRRM will be speaking at a panel in Edinburgh at the end of August. I wonder if we might get a release date then?

Nope. This is his last month of "work" time at home until he leaves for Europe in July. He'd literally have to finish this month, and I don't think that's going to happen. Also he has already said that when he finishes he'll announce it on his blog; I don't see him finishing in June and waiting until August to tell us.

 

[Valhelm]

I doubt that, but I'm guessing Stannis will be dead before the end of TWOW.

 

[Speevy]

I doubt that, but I'm guessing Stannis will be dead before the end of TWOW.

Surely not before he throws Melisandre off a bridge.

 

[CitizenVectron]

I think Jon will kill stannis

First he needs to fall in love with him. That way it can be part of the prophecy.

 

[Speevy]

What if Ollie grew up to become a Westerosi Hitler, all because Sam told him to fight.

Damn it, Sam. You've doomed us all.

 

[Ogimachi]

It just hit me again that Stannis had Renly killed, his own brother. I sometimes fall into the camp that Stannis would be a good and fair king but killing your own brother? How can anyone support him?

In the books, Stannis is not aware that he sent a shadow assassin, he doesn't know it killed Renly.
Melisandre saw Renly dying during the siege (and maybe he saw the flames with her, don't remember) and he went along with it. That's why he marched on Storm's End outnumbered and certain of his brother's defeat.
Not to mention that Renly was openly betraying his brother and would've killed him to become king, but that should be obvious by now.

He also basically abandoned Robert to die. He knew about the incest and ran away to dragonstone rather than do anything productive with the knowledge. Well until he was rightful King, then that knowledge was conveniently useful to him.


He probably would have been a pretty decent king. I'd take Renly over almost every other candidate for the throne in the series, including Stannis who would have driven the realm apart and to war with his rigidity.

Abandoned Robert to die? He wasn't as foolish as Ned, it's a different thing.

 

[Pein]

I doubt that, but I'm guessing Stannis will be dead before the end of TWOW.

I hope not, everyone else who wants the throne are idiots.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I hope not, everyone else who wants the throne are idiots.

Jon Snow is no idiot.

 

[Basileus777]

Abandoned Robert to die? He wasn't as foolish as Ned, it's a different thing.

He abandoned his king and brother, it's not like acting like Ned was the only alternative.

But it's really a plot contrivance from GRRM, because it doesn't fit with how Stannis acts in the rest of the series. Martin needed Stannis out of the way in AGOT, and so he ran.

 

[PhoenixDark]

He abandoned his king and brother, it's not like acting like Ned was the only alternative.

But it's really a plot contrivance from GRRM, because it doesn't fit with how Stannis acts in the rest of the series. Martin needed Stannis out of the way in AGOT, and so he ran.

Stannis left after Robert snubbed him for Ned Stark. That strikes me as within Stannis' character, given the magnitude of slights (in his mind, at least) he suffered.

And let's be clear: he didn't know the Lannisters would kill Robert so you can't say he "left his brother to die." It's not like he saw some assassination letter and didn't say anything. He suspected the Lannisters killed Arryn to protect themselves, but that doesn't mean he could assume they would kill Robert.

 

[Valhelm]

Stannis will either marry Melisandre or be abandoned by her, I bet.

 

[Basileus777]

Stannis left after Robert snubbed him for Ned Stark. That strikes me as within Stannis' character, given the magnitude of slights (in his mind, at least) he suffered.

I'd think he'd be too stubborn to give up on the investigation because it became dangerous. But maybe the snub and danger was enough.

And let's be clear: he didn't know the Lannisters would kill Robert so you can't say he "left his brother to die." It's not like he saw some assassination letter and didn't say anything. He suspected the Lannisters killed Arryn to protect themselves, but that doesn't mean he could assume they would kill Robert.

He knew enough to think Robert's life could be in danger. He didn't know for certain, but he didn't know his own life was in danger for certain either.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

@Handsome_Jake_: Somewhere a feminist is writing an article about how Olly nodding his head after killing Ygritte was sexist.

 

[elrechazado]

You guys think they'll adapt Lyanna Mormonts letter for next season?

They can't have two lyannas. Maybe yaranna. And another Mormont would confuse the show watchers too much.

 

[bengraven]

They should have shown more Ygritte this season. We got all angry, with one exception, Ygritte. It kind of killed the impact of her death, even after she "saved" Gilly.

 

[elrechazado]

Jon Snow is no idiot.

Sends away all of his allies in the watch. Ignores repeated Mel warnings of danger. Throws away his vows and all of his previous decisions to remain faithful to the watch and not get involved in politics to go off half cocked to attack Ramsay.

Not an idiot? Who is one then?

 

[The Smoking Bun]

I hope not, everyone else who wants the throne are idiots.

Not true. Rickon X Shireen 4EVA. The true rulers of Westeros!
I want a fight between the five year olds. Rickon Vs. Robin Vs. Shireen Vs. Myrcella

 

[Dysun]

They should have shown more Ygritte this season. We got all angry, with one exception, Ygritte. It kind of killed the impact of her death, even after she "saved" Gilly.

The downside of splitting book 3 into 2 seasons was plot lines like the Wall felt disjointed. If she died last year it would have hit harder. I wonder how people who marathon the series will feel about this arc in particular

 

[Basileus777]

The downside of splitting book 3 into 2 seasons was plot lines like the Wall felt disjointed. If she died last year it would have hit harder

I think they just delayed the battle for too long and the whole plotline had lost any momentum. The same is true of Stannis. I wonder if they should have had this episode earlier in the season.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Sends away all of his allies in the watch. Ignores repeated Mel warnings of danger. Throws away his vows and all of his previous decisions to remain faithful to the watch and not get involved in politics to go off half cocked to attack Ramsay.

Not an idiot? Who is one then?

Didn't he think Ramsay had Arya at that point? That was probably the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[El Daniel]

It just hit me again that Stannis had Renly killed, his own brother. I sometimes fall into the camp that Stannis would be a good and fair king but killing your own brother? How can anyone support him?

Renly tried to usurp the throne even before he knew Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella were bastards.

Fuck Renly.

 

[Speevy]

Renly tried to usurp the throne even before he knew Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella were bastards.

Fuck Renly.

 

[biosnake20]

Hey guys non book reader here, but I have been spoiled about lady stoneheart. Now there was an article in a VFX magazine called Cinefex about GoT season 4. It seemingly confirmed things like mammoths being in the battle at the wall and the reveal of stoneheart. The problem is I can't tell if they actually had a source/proof of those facts or they were just speculating. Does anyone in here subscribe to them? I need to know if it was speculation or not. I thinks it's issue 137.

 

[Valhelm]

Sends away all of his allies in the watch. Ignores repeated Mel warnings of danger. Throws away his vows and all of his previous decisions to remain faithful to the watch and not get involved in politics to go off half cocked to attack Ramsay.

Not an idiot? Who is one then?

He's not an idiot, but he's seventeen and incredibly inexperienced.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Hey guys non book reader here, but I have been spoiled about lady stoneheart. Now there was an article in a VFX magazine called Cinefex about GoT season 4. It seemingly confirmed things like mammoths being in the battle at the wall and the reveal of stoneheart. The problem is I can't tell if they actually had a source/proof of those facts or they were just speculating. Does anyone in here subscribe to them? I need to know if it was speculation or not. I thinks it's issue 137.

It's speculation. No one knows if she's going to be in the finale or not.

 

[Loke13]

Littlefinger said that the short lived peace after the War of the Five kings wouldn't survive the "three queens" who did he mean by that?

 

[Brakke]

Cersei, Margery, ...Dany? Would he refer to Dany?

Unless he knows Dorne is planning on stirring shit with Marcella.

 

[PantherLotus]

Quick thoughts on the last page or several:

1. Certainly seems to me like Stannis is being set up to have some final say in how things turn out, whether that's in a big final battle or whatever. Would also make for a nice lawful-good-corrupted trope for GRRM to explore.

2. Jon is most certainly an idiot. Every other character in the series that is this dumb is already dead. So...

 

[Walter White Walker]

Littlefinger said that the short lived peace after the War of the Five kings wouldn't survive the "three queens" who did he mean by that?

Cersei, Margaery, Dany?