Cpt.Underpants
Member
Ungh
Could use a 1 or 2 min season 6 trailer by now
Could use a 1 or 2 min season 6 trailer by now
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 6 Offseason Thread
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CopperPuppy
Member
Ramsay is the show's poor writing given physical form. He is more plot device than character. He is a walking, talking hand-wave.
Iwan Rheon plays Ramsay so well, so it's upsetting that the writing makes him so extra unlikable by turning him into a god-man.
They usually tie trailers to premiers of other shows, which I think means we're probably not getting it until mid-February?
Iwan's certainly a good actor. Just a strange choice for Ramsay.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Yep, haha. He's...too good looking and dashing, and I think they adjusted the writing for the character to meet his appearance.
I just wish they cast a husky, slope shouldered sadist vs. a ripped, younger, socially well-adjusted Crispin Glover.
Moff
Member
they should have focused on Roose instead of ramsay.
one of the biggest problems of AFFC/ADWD is the lack of a charismatic antagonist that could fill the hole tywin left. the boltons were enjoyable in the books, but not big and present enough.
they gave them a bigger focus in the show, which was basically a good idea, but poorly executed. I think ramsays introduction in season 3 was very well done, I liked a lot of changes they made there, but they turned it up to 11 in season 4 and 5 and that did not work well. McElhatton is a great actor, I would have preferred it if they focused on his political plays instead of ramsays superhero adventures and kept him on the side a bit.
but I know plenty of women who love show ramsay so maybe that was calculated.
one of the biggest problems of AFFC/ADWD is the lack of a charismatic antagonist that could fill the hole tywin left. the boltons were enjoyable in the books, but not big and present enough.
they gave them a bigger focus in the show, which was basically a good idea, but poorly executed. I think ramsays introduction in season 3 was very well done, I liked a lot of changes they made there, but they turned it up to 11 in season 4 and 5 and that did not work well. McElhatton is a great actor, I would have preferred it if they focused on his political plays instead of ramsays superhero adventures and kept him on the side a bit.
but I know plenty of women who love show ramsay so maybe that was calculated.
LOL. I'm dying.
I finished re-reading the series last night and have a big question about how Jon's story ended.
Until the last scene, he had been marking hard choices as commander that seemed like the right decisions. The real enemy is the Others so he was housing, arming, and befriending the wildings to help in that fight. But then the letter arrived from Winterfell.
Yes, Stannis was (apparently) killed and Mance captured, but why was he riding to Winterfell with who knows how many brothers to fight the Bastard? That's a terrible idea that goes against what he was doing. Time and time again he chose to honor his vows and do everything he could to save the realm. But now he's turning away from that to fight someone leagues away?
It's one of the rare moments that I thought worked better in the television series than the books. Unless I just missed something.
Until the last scene, he had been marking hard choices as commander that seemed like the right decisions. The real enemy is the Others so he was housing, arming, and befriending the wildings to help in that fight. But then the letter arrived from Winterfell.
Yes, Stannis was (apparently) killed and Mance captured, but why was he riding to Winterfell with who knows how many brothers to fight the Bastard? That's a terrible idea that goes against what he was doing. Time and time again he chose to honor his vows and do everything he could to save the realm. But now he's turning away from that to fight someone leagues away?
It's one of the rare moments that I thought worked better in the television series than the books. Unless I just missed something.
Basileus777
Member
I largely agree that Jon's character shift is poorly executed there. It was too sudden and we didn't really see enough of Jon's internal thoughts on the matter for it to feel genuine. It was one of those moments in ADWD where it felt like the plot was forcing character decisions.
Also, was his assassination planned? Or did his brothers just take advantage of his distraction? It seemed like the latter, which is also a little odd.
Basileus777
Member
It was definitely planned, though the exact timing of it may have been opportunistic.
ChaosZeroX
Banned
I think it was obviously planned once Jon asked his brothers to ride south to Winterfell with him.
They were already weary of him with everything going on with the wildlings.
So were they lying to him when they shouted his support to ride south? And did they somehow plan to have Wun Wun attack one of Selyse's knights? It's strange because his character was built up so beautifully throughout the books and then everything kind of slipped away in the last chapter.
Moff
Member
I always thought it was because ramsay threatened to attack the wall. in that moment the issue became night's watchs business and he had a legitimate reason to attack ramsay and safe aria
ToyMachine228
Member
I think your argument is the best one but riding out to meet Ramsay in battle would be an inferior strategy to defending the wall against him if he ever did actually attack.
Moff
Member
yes but he also wanted safe aria
and I think the wall is not really defensible from the south, they have little supplies so maybe attacking winterfell with all the wildlings was not such a bad idea
personally, I think he was waiting for a reason to make it night's watch business to safe aria
Hmmm, that's a really good point. I was thinking he wanted to ride south to seek vengeance, but you might be on to something.
Also, A Feast For Crows and A Dance With Dragons are incredible. I don't think I appreciated them the first time I read them. The first three books (well, the second half of the first and the second and third) document The War of the Five Kings. Feast and Dragons is the lull between that upheaval and the war with The Others. Just seeing the characters move slowly in position for what's to come is riveting. It's not nearly as death-heavy as the first three books, but it's an incredible look at the world and characters Martin created. I can't wait to see where the story goes from here, now that everything is in place.
It's also crazy to me that the show doesn't have the suitors vying for Daenerys' hand. That seems important. I have no idea where those threads are headed.
Basileus777
Member
It's still an incredibly dumb reason to ride south to attack a castle through awful Winter weather. And Jon seems cognizant that what he is doing will be interrelated by many as oath breaking, making his decision all the more baffling. GRRM basically hit him with an idiot stick.
Moff
Member
I think that was left out for a reason, dany will obviously soon go to westeros (right? RIGHT?) and marry someone there, either aegon/trystane, jon, tommen, whoever, certainly not someone from essos
Yeah, but now we'll have the touching reunion between Jon and Catelyn. They'll join forces in death to retake the north!
The suitors I was talking about were Quentyn (now dead, not in show), Aegon (not in the show), Tyrion (in the show! Yay!), and Victarion Greyjoy (not in the show). I was fascinated reading about Quentyn, Aegon, and Victarion racing to reach her first. And I have no clue where it's going.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
you knew things had gone off the rails when jon decided to lock up his presentient wolf because of a pig.
Moff
Member
quentyn was useless, aegon is likely replaced by trystane as dany's suitor and I forgot about victarion, he will very likely be replaced by euron as dany's suitor. so they are all there.
don't forget we will still have the ironborn stuff from AFFC/ADWD in the next season of the show.
Quentyn's story was pretty incredible. And the death... well, maybe I'm glad it didn't make it into the show. But it helped with the world building immensely. We know Varys remains loyal to House Targaryen, but he's one man. Seeing Dorne had a pact decades earlier is fascinating to wed Targaryen to Martell. That part of the world hasn't been explored much. But we know that feeble, cautious Doran Martell has been plotting this whole time to take down the Lannisters.
The show ignoring another Targaryen is pretty interesting to me. The reveal in the book made me gasp. I thought Daenerys was the last one.
Oh well. That's one of many reasons why I prefer the story in the books. It's a much more fleshed out and alive world than the show presents. There are so many more spinning plates that it's hard to know what's to come.
But those charracters are mostly useless because they never reach Dany. And now she is hundreds of miles from Mereen so they will still have plenty of waiting to do in Winds.
Plus there are enough suitors inside Mereen with Jorah, Hizdar and Daario that it would be far too repetitive to have an additional 3 characters trying to marry her.
Dash_Riprock
Member
That the show is skipping Aegon entirely suggests to me:
A.) He's a fake, possibly a Blackfyre
and/or
B.) He dies a quick, stupid anti-climactic death without accomplishing anything in true GRRM fashion
I had the wonderful opportunity today to reveal to someone that has read all books that R+L=J.
I don't think the show skipping Aegon implies that he is fake, but I don't think it really matters either.
I don't think the show skipping Aegon implies that he is fake, but I don't think it really matters either.
Or he'll be in season six. The show hasn't even killed off King Balon yet. It's not like they've included everything in the first five books.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Aegon is likely fake, plus it's a shit ton of backstory that would be hard to explain in the show and seem like it is coming out of nowhere.
bitbydeath
Member
C.) He gets introduced later.
Other than finding out he exists nothing significant had occurred so if he is important he likely won't show up til later on and it'd likely be Varys who introduces him.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
To be fair, Jon struggles with his duty from the beginning of Dance until that last chapter. He does everything imaginable to meddle in the realm without fully breaking his vows. He advises Stannis on how to rally the north, he sends Mance to rescue his sister, he warns Stannis of the Karstark betrayal, etc. And then when he realizes his decisions have endangered the Wall he decides to play offense than defend the Wall from the south.
I didn't see it as contradictory at all. It was an escalation.
EW: Sophie Turner says 'Game of Thrones' will have "so many shocks"
In other news, the sky is blue. More shocks, just like we all wanted. Is it just me or did she say the exact same thing last year?
In other news, the sky is blue. More shocks, just like we all wanted. Is it just me or did she say the exact same thing last year?
Sure Sophie....
She'll look for the true heir of Winterfell and no doubt end up married once again.
biosnake20
Member
Isn't this like the exact same quote she gave us for last season?
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Maybe the shock will be this time she'll do the raping?
Aegon VI is more interesting character as an imposter, as opposed to another living Targaryen who suddenly appears over halfway through the story. The real Aegon died as an infant, while another child is raised unknowingly believing he is someone he is not. That's far more intriguing and tragic than the alternative.
It also feels like that direction has been properly foreshadowed with the mummer's dragon shit and Varys' classic lines about power residing where men believe that it resides. Otherwise the twist would be kinda lame. And I also hope GRRM never explicitly reveals the truth either way.
It also feels like that direction has been properly foreshadowed with the mummer's dragon shit and Varys' classic lines about power residing where men believe that it resides. Otherwise the twist would be kinda lame. And I also hope GRRM never explicitly reveals the truth either way.
dead souls
Member
"So many shocks" eh?
I'd be shocked if it featured any good writing, so maybe there's hope yet.
Pyramid head
Banned
I find it pretty bizarre that anyone could prefer how that mess went down on the show over the books.
In the books Jon at least gave the watch a reason to mutiny. What he asked of his brothers was simply one step too far.
On the show there was literally no reason for it to take place, other than the tired and by now settled 'issue' of: "Bu-bu-but the wildlings! The Wildlings! The Wildlings!"
Talk about closing the gate after the horse has bolted. A gate which, incidentally, Alliser Thorne was responsible for opening, not Jon. Why not assassinate him instead?
I thought the show's handling of Jon's death was lazy z-tier garbage.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Of course it will. That's all they know how to do without Martin.
Oldest Snake
Member
Atraveller
Banned
Last thing I want to hear really.
TestOfTide
Banned
I think in the books Jon's biggest mistake (in terms of actions leading to his death) was sending mance to Winterfell. By doing that, he risked Mance being caught and Jon looking like a liar who purpousefully kept mance alive. I don't think Jon was in the end killed for trying to head to winter. He was killed for revealing to the Night's Watch that he secretly had Mance alive and recruited him for help.
Euron is cast, Damphair is cast but no one has found out who the actor is (and he appears to be very minor). Vic is cut.
Shit, I really wanted to see Victarion lava punch a dragon at some point.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Honestly, now that I am thinking the "wildlings" being the excuse Jon died...I start to think of republicans and their stances on immigration, gays, Muslims and other irrational fears. It makes a bit more sense in D&D's approach that way...unless I remembering it wrong and really is that horrible in the show (which is probably hyberbole since most non-book readers I have talked to were fine with his "death").
Cesare Borgia
Banned
Agreed. The gate was opened and that was that; apparently there were no issues or incidents. I could understand if there was a scene where NW members had to deal with a wildling committing a crime for instance, or talk of tensions boiling over into a NW and wildling killing each other. But there's nothing. The Wall seemed rather peaceful, in fact.
I prefer the logical way it happens in the book. Jon goes too far and suffers a consequence. You can actually debate it too: yes Jon broke his vows, but did he do it selfishly or did he do it to protect the Wall from a blatant threat (Ramsay)?
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